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Alec Baldwin Kills Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins With Real Gun

DeepEnigma

Gold Member



This was by all accounts a fuck up of the highest order by the armorer/prop master.
“Live rounds” in the movie industry are blanks. Ball ammo is not supposed to be anywhere near the set or shooting location. Movies are shot out of sequence. Any scenes that uses a sharpshooter or actor to actually hit targets are not even in the same vicinity or done at the same time of mass crew shooting (camera takes not pew pew)

If we find out that ball ammo indeed in set at that time, that is some gross negligence that falls upon everyone from the top down. From production to props.

He is also not supposed to trust what is handed to him, that is not standard procedure I or experts I provided have been a part of.

YOU NEVER ASSUME and definitely do not point a firearm at anyone on the set. Hot or cold. You are supposed to always treat them as hot.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
No, but because people misunderstand and misreport that shit, today at a friend's dinner one said he read they removed a bullet from the guy who survived.
This true? That is tragic. Ball ammo is not supposed to be on location during those takes.
 
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Synless

Member
Had to be a heart breaking affair when it happened. I feel bad for Alec as I’m sure he feels like shit, but my prayers go to the impacted families and individuals. Blaming Alec is stupid though, dude would have had no idea.
 

///PATRIOT

Banned
Someone said above in the past page or two that Hutchins might be potentially negligent too. I don't know how that would be possible if she's innocent just standing there.
Producers and directors on the Set are as much as responsible and enforcers for gun safety protocols as the amour master. There are even reports of some people walking off the set for this very issue days before the event.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I asked him to show me where he read it and he couldn't produce.

I assume it was a mistake somewhere, otherwise that info would be plastered everywhere.
Ah okay, I get what you’re saying now. But yeah, ball ammo is not supposed to be anywhere on location during full production sets.

That is reserved for skeleton crews and usually done after all the meat and potatoes of shooting scenes are done. Sometimes it can be done before, but never at the same time. That is for safely and to make sure no lethal ball ammo is on location at the time of filming with full crews.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
That was my first reaction. Blew my fucking mind to find out that blanks have an identical look to a live round beyond the tip. Especially when you have an entire industry built around western movies that almost exclusively use revolvers where the tips of the bullets are not visible unless you remove the rounds. Put a black mark or something on the back of each round ffs. Would take 2 seconds.


Because as far as I can tell someone who is not familiar with guns would not be able to tell the difference unless they completely unloaded and reloaded the gun and even then there are apparently blanks made to look like real bullets?
Unless someone knows guns, they wouldnt know.

Due to this thread I googled what blanks look like and they do seem to look different than the typical long pointy rifle bullet or stubby pistol bullet if you laid them out and compared the look of them. They seem to be a bit shorter with a flatter tip that's can be green or red. I dont know if this the norm or just random googling, but how would anyone know that?
 
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Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
So no safety check with the actor.

What a sad series of events. It wasn't one thing that failed for sure.


It always was a given since they were the first line of defense but that doesn't take away responsibility from others too.
Yeah you can say that the actor should have checked, but given the nature of the film (Western movie therefore using revolvers) he could not have known the gun had live rounds (as I have already confirmed) unless he had unloaded and reloaded the gun himself because blanks apparently look the same at the back unless they are specially marked. I do not blame anyone for trusting the word of an "expert" in a situation like this. Not even a little bit. If I get handed something by an "expert" and they tell me that it is safe to use in the setting then I am going to take them at their word because that is literally their job in a situation like this. There is no malice or vindictive fury here. This is a tragedy of compounding errors and mistakes. Some of which lie on the actor himself as I have said, but more so the armorer/prop master and the other safety staff that was on the scene whose job it is to make sure the cast and crew are safe rather than the actor himself. Anyone trying to put any kind of criminal negligence onto the actor at this point before the investigation is complete is just being ridiculous. At no point should a live round have made it onto that set let alone into that gun, onto a prop cart, picked up by someone, said to be safe, and then been put into the hands of an actor who is CLEARLY not a firearms expert. If the investigation finds that Baldwin knew the armorer was not qualified or that the gun was loaded then yeah at that point throw him to the courts. But until we know more I am not going to throw this poor guy to the wolves for a mistake that was not his own.




Until we have information from the investigation that says otherwise this tragedy is on the "experts" and "professionals" who were on the scene who failed that crew. Not the actor who made a tragic error.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
why has this been front page news for 3 days now? it's a tragedy. what else is there to say?
Because famous person and because a certain vocal section of the populace apparently do not like famous person.
 
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Burnttips

Member
Why would he point a gun at someone not in the movie and pull the trigger. He killed her intentionally. He knew real bullets were in the gun and shot her. It's not like it was a shooting that was in the script.
 

highrider

Banned
It doesn’t matter if Baldwin is a dickhead or what his stance is on gun control. The question is whether or not he was supposed to perform a verification function on the set and whether or not he did that.

If he was just doing what he was instructed and there was no expectation of him to verify he had a safe prop, ok. There’s a lot of reason to believe that’s not the case, though. And that’s what so obnoxious about the continued stance people are taking about this all being on the armorer. There’s a lot of reason to think he was supposed to check too, based on all the overviews of safety protocols and experts talking about standard practices.

He produced the movie as far as I understand. I don’t see where the wasn’t some level of negligence here obviously I don’t know how much but I’m sure the civil suits will tell.
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
Yeah you can say that the actor should have checked, but given the nature of the film (Western movie therefore using revolvers) he could not have known the gun had live rounds (as I have already confirmed) unless he had unloaded and reloaded the gun himself because blanks apparently look the same at the back unless they are specially marked. I do not blame anyone for trusting the word of an "expert" in a situation like this. Not even a little bit. If I get handed something by an "expert" and they tell me that it is safe to use in the setting then I am going to take them at their word because that is literally their job in a situation like this. There is no malice or vindictive fury here. This is a tragedy of compounding errors and mistakes. Some of which lie on the actor himself as I have said, but more so the armorer/prop master and the other safety staff that was on the scene whose job it is to make sure the cast and crew are safe rather than the actor himself. Anyone trying to put any kind of criminal negligence onto the actor at this point before the investigation is complete is just being ridiculous. At no point should a live round have made it onto that set let alone into that gun, onto a prop cart, picked up by someone, said to be safe, and then been put into the hands of an actor who is CLEARLY not a firearms expert. If the investigation finds that Baldwin knew the armorer was not qualified or that the gun was loaded then yeah at that point throw him to the courts. But until we know more I am not going to throw this poor guy to the wolves for a mistake that was not his own.




Until we have information from the investigation that says otherwise this tragedy is on the "experts" and "professionals" who were on the scene who failed that crew. Not the actor who made a tragic error.
The prop masters part will be interesting since nobody knows how qualified they are and if Baldwin or the company did due diligence hiring people who claim they are. If it turns out they winged it and hired a bunch of nobodies pretending to be arms masters that's different. But as long as they put in reasonable effort hiring qualified gun experts that's all that can be asked for IMO.

You never know. Maybe due to rules, if Baldwin was the last guy touching the gun, he'll be numero uno being liable sued, while other people get penalized less. Or it's a total team effort of liability between Baldwin, prop masters, directors etc... Who knows.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
He produced the movie as far as I understand. I don’t see where the wasn’t some level of negligence here obviously I don’t know how much but I’m sure the civil suits will tell.
Being listed as a "producer" not always a label of actual authority in Hollywood. There are plenty of times where people are listed as "producers" on movies and they didn't do squat. Producer credits are not a sign of direct involvement. Sometimes they are handed out just to get a big name on board or to get attention.


Not saying that is what happened here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was given Baldwin's fame and clout. I'd honestly be more surprised if he had actually performed the day to day activities required by the position.
 
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Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Being listed as a "producer" not always a label of actual authority in Hollywood. There are plenty of times where people are listed as "producers" on movies and they didn't do squat. Producer credits are not a sign of direct involvement. Sometimes they are handed out just to get a big name on board or to get attention.


Not saying that is what happened here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was given Baldwin's fame and clout. I'd honestly be more surprised if he had actually performed the day to day activities required by the position.

This is Alec Baldwin here.

He's not a nobody that gets told they'll get a credit.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
This is Alec Baldwin here.

He's not a nobody that gets told they'll get a credit.
I know? That is my point. That's why I said "Producer credits are not a sign of direct involvement. Sometimes they are handed out just to get a big name on board or to get attention." Nobody wants to be on board a film produced by Tommy NoNuts who is currently producing his 3rd film. But a film "produced" by Alec Baldwin? Hey that will get some eyes on it.



Once AGAIN not saying that is what happened here. I am just saying that him being listed a producer does not necessarily mean he was involved in the day to day activities that job requires.
 
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StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
I know? That is my point. That's why I said "Producer credits are not a sign of direct involvement. Sometimes they are handed out just to get a big name on board or to get attention."



Once AGAIN not saying that is what happened here. I am just saying that him being listed a producer does not necessarily mean he was involved in the day to day activities that job requires.
Hollywood labels can be retarded.

Heather Locklear became a mainstay on Melrose Place cast in year two I think. She was a "special guest star" for like 6 years.
 

DapperSloth

Member
Some clowns decided to show up in this thread, out of their league.

mAn hOlDiNg fIrEaRm nOt rEsPoNsIbLe fOr fIrEaRm sAfEtY cUz aIrPlAnEs gO bRrRrRrRrRr

jean yves drool GIF by Charlie Mars

Even though the rules and experts have stated the firearm safety 101 still applies on sets, over and over and over, but… oPiNiOnS tHo

These are not “opinions” or airplane analogies.

You still going on about my analogy? For a grownup professional working in the movie business you sure act childish by insinuating that I am a retard in one of your posts by going with your "airplanes go brr" and "I use lowercase and uppercase letters"-posts and drooling-gifs. Hey, I'm sorry if I sometimes have a hard time properly conveying my meaning/analogy 100% straight or understandable, if you don't understand it or think it's stupid, just ask, jesus. We may have differing opinions but lay off the insults.

Once again, you are handed a gun by a professional, you do not need to check it, it's already been checked by an expert, you are not responsible if it goes off wrongly.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
You still going on about my analogy? For a grownup professional working in the movie business you sure act childish by insinuating that I am a retard in one of your posts by going with your "airplanes go brr" and "I use lowercase and uppercase letters"-posts and drooling-gifs. Hey, I'm sorry if I sometimes have a hard time properly conveying my meaning/analogy 100% straight or understandable, if you don't understand it or think it's stupid, just ask, jesus. We may have differing opinions but lay off the insults.

Once again, you are handed a gun by a professional, you do not need to check it, it's already been checked by an expert, you are not responsible if it goes off wrongly.
screamqueensedit GIF
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
You taking this seriously or is this somehow funny to you?
I’ve provided my insight as well as provided other’s insight as to how things are supposed to function on set based on the rules plenty of times in this thread.

But you can’t break away from your opines, then have the gall to try and tell me what you feel are how things are supposed to be, based on your opines.

You don’t deserve realistic responses any further, since your opines to you, outweigh rules outlined by experts.

Go fly a paper airplane.
 

I_D

Member
I’ve provided my insight as well as provided other’s insight as to how things are supposed to function on set based on the rules plenty of times in this thread.

Not just in this thread, but in many others throughout the past, you have a tendency to resort to insults.
They're never necessary, even when your point is correct. You will never be able to convince people of your point if you have to resort to name-calling.

Yes, you are correct that people should always check firearms and make 100000000% sure everything is safe.
But other people, including myself, are also correct in that whoever is in charge of firearm props should always be the source of safety, and ensuring that everybody else on set understands exactly what is going on with the firearms.
Failing to explain the dangers of a tool before handing it over to a novice is just as much the fault of the "pro" as it is of the novice.


Clearly, all sorts of issues occurred in the production of this film.
What is also clear is that there is a huge disconnect between the average expectations, training, regulations, and protocols among various members of production in the film industry.

I don't see any reason to blame Alec Baldwin directly. A whole lot of people fucked up in order for this type of thing to happen.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
I don't see any reason to blame Alec Baldwin directly. A whole lot of people fucked up in order for this type of thing to happen.
I never blamed him directly. Made my position clear that there are lots of blame to go around, clearly. But also, I don’t support the notion to absolve him 100% out of ignorance. That excuse doesn’t fly with basic firearm safety.

And there are plenty in here trying to do that. And tripling down on their opinions at that.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
I never blamed him directly. Made my position clear that there are lots of blame to go around, clearly. But also, I don’t support the notion to absolve him 100% out of ignorance. That excuse doesn’t fly with basic firearm safety.

And there are plenty in here trying to do that. And tripling down on their opinions at that.
So right here right now knowing what we know now would you support criminal charges against him? I will not even try to hold you to this going forward because I that the investigation is still going on. It could change on a dime. I get that.



I am just curious where you stand before the investigation is done and before the courts decide.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
So right here right now knowing what we know now would you support criminal charges against him? I will not even try to hold you to this going forward because I that the investigation is still going on. It could change on a dime. I get that.



I am just curious where you stand before the investigation is done and before the courts decide.
There isn’t enough information for that at this time, so I will wait and see more eye witness reports and the like.

But there are plenty for basic safety rules on set not followed. His own words, words of people on set who quit, and the pointing of a firearm directly at another living being.

There will definitely be civil if not handled privately before it gets that far.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
What if the actor is shooting a full magazine of blanks for a scene? Is (s)he supposed to check every single round in the mag? Depending on the type of gun, it could be dozens of rounds that have to be checked. That would take enough actions and time to introduce new opportunities for unsafe situations, no?
YES! Why is this so hard for some of you guys to grok? The actor should be present and watching every round being loaded! Firing off a mag of blanks for a film is EXTREMELY dangerous and takes a lot of prep work to make sure it goes right. Actors aren't just tossed a few mags and told to "let 'er rip!" Jesus christ.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
And actors watching a guy load a gun is supposed to know looking at the bullets whether they are real or blanks?
YES! There are, or at least should be, visual differences between the two that the actor can understand and be a check, since they are the ones using the weapon and ultimately are responsible.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Not even a little bit. If I saw the backs of those in a revolver cylinder and a professional told me they were blanks I would take his word for it. Especially if I had done this scenario about a thousand times before. Not a second thought.


Once again not an excuse. Just an explanation.
But that is not how it works.

The armorer should load it in front of you. You should see each round and it should be obvious what is a live round, what is a blank, and what is a dummy round.

A veteran like Alec should know better than to take a revolver with things in the cylinder and not check to make sure they are dummy rounds, ESPECIALLY if there have been accidental discharges days prior. This is so basic, so simple, how is it hard to grasp?

With a single action revolver there is a loading gate and each round has to be put in individually. But you can see if there are things in the cylinder and he should have checked, end of story.
 

Nobody_Important

“Aww, it’s so...average,” she said to him in a cold brick of passion
Why would he point a gun at someone not in the movie and pull the trigger. He killed her intentionally. He knew real bullets were in the gun and shot her. It's not like it was a shooting that was in the script.
This can't be a real post.
 
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Saw some news about real bullets inside the gun, they used the gun as recreation, shooting targets at nearby lot, so some real bullets were still in the gun. 🤷‍♂️
Idk it’s true, Also crew members walked out production for the same reason.
 

Airbus Jr

Banned
You know whats funny majority of the fault should goes to the people responsible preparing the sets

But you watch people comments here some specific group of people seems to rather put all the focus and fault at Alec Baldwin

Perhaps something to do with his 2020 vote and his anti gun stance

The fact that this incident happened to a notorious anti - gun person like him is kinda suspicious could be foul play at work who knows maybe someone was trying to set him up/ put a message
 
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People acting like basic firearm safety 101 is equivalent to learning chemistry.
Plenty of accidental discharges are done by people trained in firearms safety, even instructors.

These kind of accidents are incredibly rare to happen on movie sets, it's been 28 years since the accident on The Crow and untold thousands of scenes with blanks have been filmed since. This is a perfect storm of things to come together, any one of which not happening would have prevented it.
1: It's an old time Western which means revolvers. Brandon Lee was also shot with a revolver, they are terrible regarding safety as you can see the bullets unlike a pistol which can be left empty most of the time
2: At some point a decision was made to use an actual Wild West era gun (or working replica) instead of an airsoft or otherwise harmless one. This is not completely unheard of but this could have been the first place to prevent any future cases by totally banning working guns from a set. Which means producers will have to spend more money on period correct modified safe weapons.
3: The shoot already had some issues with safety. What exactly those were is still unclear, also if this was more then any other set involving gunfire scenes. I doubt there is a set in existence where safety officers are not complaining about safety, it's their job. The job of the producers is to finish the movie on time and in budget and if the safety guy says they should stop the shoot for 6 hours for more checks to be done they usually say no
4: Disagreements over safety led to crew leaving the shoot. While they were within their rights to do so, this directly lead to the fatal shooting. If they have been around long enough they should know that the shoot would not be stopped once they walked off set, it would just continue on even more unsafely.
5: A very inexperienced armorer took over, as the daughter of a very well known armorer there is the appearance of nepotism as if knowledge in firearms handling is passed on genetically. Again, if someone not a child of a known expert was hired they would perhaps be hired on experience and not last name.
6: Some dumb decisions, exactly which ones will take some time to determine, led to a live round in the gun that Baldwin used.
7: The final events are also unclear. Maybe Baldwin was supposed to aim and pull the trigger towards the camera, just for a click or a blank, and he pointed the gun at Hutchins as a way to get the correct angle for pointing at a target. Maybe the gun went off accidentally as it was being pulled and just happened to go off at the worst possible moment.

Or even more wild things are possible like one of the exiting crew leaving live bullets with the blanks as a present to the scabs taking over.

In the end, a very outspoken Hollywood celebrity is now getting a lot of blowback for his past comments on matters relating to firearms and unions. It always seemed a bit hypocritical for actors to profit so much from shooting guns in their scenes are also campaigning for gun control. The best thing they can do is simply refuse any role in which a gun is used by their character.
 

Soodanim

Member
Plenty of accidental discharges are done by people trained in firearms safety, even instructors.

These kind of accidents are incredibly rare to happen on movie sets, it's been 28 years since the accident on The Crow and untold thousands of scenes with blanks have been filmed since. This is a perfect storm of things to come together, any one of which not happening would have prevented it.
1: It's an old time Western which means revolvers. Brandon Lee was also shot with a revolver, they are terrible regarding safety as you can see the bullets unlike a pistol which can be left empty most of the time
2: At some point a decision was made to use an actual Wild West era gun (or working replica) instead of an airsoft or otherwise harmless one. This is not completely unheard of but this could have been the first place to prevent any future cases by totally banning working guns from a set. Which means producers will have to spend more money on period correct modified safe weapons.
3: The shoot already had some issues with safety. What exactly those were is still unclear, also if this was more then any other set involving gunfire scenes. I doubt there is a set in existence where safety officers are not complaining about safety, it's their job. The job of the producers is to finish the movie on time and in budget and if the safety guy says they should stop the shoot for 6 hours for more checks to be done they usually say no
4: Disagreements over safety led to crew leaving the shoot. While they were within their rights to do so, this directly lead to the fatal shooting. If they have been around long enough they should know that the shoot would not be stopped once they walked off set, it would just continue on even more unsafely.
5: A very inexperienced armorer took over, as the daughter of a very well known armorer there is the appearance of nepotism as if knowledge in firearms handling is passed on genetically. Again, if someone not a child of a known expert was hired they would perhaps be hired on experience and not last name.
6: Some dumb decisions, exactly which ones will take some time to determine, led to a live round in the gun that Baldwin used.
7: The final events are also unclear. Maybe Baldwin was supposed to aim and pull the trigger towards the camera, just for a click or a blank, and he pointed the gun at Hutchins as a way to get the correct angle for pointing at a target. Maybe the gun went off accidentally as it was being pulled and just happened to go off at the worst possible moment.

Or even more wild things are possible like one of the exiting crew leaving live bullets with the blanks as a present to the scabs taking over.

In the end, a very outspoken Hollywood celebrity is now getting a lot of blowback for his past comments on matters relating to firearms and unions. It always seemed a bit hypocritical for actors to profit so much from shooting guns in their scenes are also campaigning for gun control. The best thing they can do is simply refuse any role in which a gun is used by their character.
For point 7, the police statement said it happened between takes as part of a joking “What if I shot you” reaction to another take.

I don’t know about the hypocrisy, you can want modern gun control and still shoot a film about the Wild West. It’s fiction, and the only crossover (and entire reason for the death) is actually having seemingly live ammunition on set because of safety failures.
 

FunkMiller

Member
The only thing making me uncomfortable is your simping of Mr. Baldwell

Yes, yes. Me calling ‘Baldwell’ a vomit inducing leftie is definitely me simping for him.

Jesus Christ, some of you smooth brains really need to step back, take a breath, and stop seeing everything through the prism of your idiotic tribal American politics.
 
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highrider

Banned
Being listed as a "producer" not always a label of actual authority in Hollywood. There are plenty of times where people are listed as "producers" on movies and they didn't do squat. Producer credits are not a sign of direct involvement. Sometimes they are handed out just to get a big name on board or to get attention.


Not saying that is what happened here, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was given Baldwin's fame and clout. I'd honestly be more surprised if he had actually performed the day to day activities required by the position.

No not the producer, you’re thinking executive producer. Producer calls the shots, hires people. He may have help but he’s responsible for everything that happens on that set.
 

Burnttips

Member
This can't be a real post.
He killed her just like the guy that slept with a loaded shotgun that shot through the wall and killed that kid. I've never pointed a gun loaded or empty at someone let alone pull the trigger. He didn't have a Happy Gilmore shot. An investigation should find that he was at least neglect. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. The gun magical went off when it just so happened he was pointing it at someone. Please! He killed her in some form of murder.
 
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RJMacready73

Simps for Amouranth
In my US Army experience with 5.56 rounds from years ago, it was the same casing, but kept far away from the live rounds.
Back then, if you didn't practice muzzle discipline, if you didn't treat every gun as if it is locked and loaded, or if you tried to play grab-ass, you paid the price in sweat and tears. Hard lessons learned so long ago, but those lessons still shape my life today.
My kids learnt the same lesson with their Nerf Guns, don't even point that fucking thing at my head loaded or unloaded, I got shot just beside the eye from near point blank and rounded up every Nerf and fucked the load into the bin, you only get 1 shot in my house to fuck up like that
 

FunkMiller

Member
No not the producer, you’re thinking executive producer. Producer calls the shots, hires people. He may have help but he’s responsible for everything that happens on that set.

Um. No.

Movies have multiple producers, and its very often the case that the talent is listed as producer for the kudos, rather than them doing much actual work.

Here's the producer credits for the movie the accident happened on:

5QQEazT.jpg


Absolutely possible that Baldwin's involvement as an actual producer was minimal. In fact, more than possible, it's very probable.

EDIT: reading a lot of the information about this incident indicates a very unsafe working environment on a low budget movie where everyone was rushing to get the film made as cheaply and as quickly as possible. A lot of those involved have previous incidents where they have not created and maintained a safe set. If nothing else, as the star of the film, Baldwin could have exerted pressure on the production to ensure better safety arrangements. There had already been accident misfires on set. This really should not have happened, and while I don't blame Baldwin for the actual death, I do think he has his share of culpability in terms of the way the film was being made.

A lot of you are keen to haul Baldwin over the coals because of the single incident where he was handed a live gun that he was told was cold (largely due to your political differences with him, I suspect), but that's not where he's actually at fault. As the main talent on the movie, he had a duty of responsibility to his crew when it was clear things were amiss before the accident. That's where he's at true fault here.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainme.../alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set
 
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FunkMiller

Member
Paywalled, can you surmise?

Here's the whole article for anyone interested:

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.
The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.
Production was shut down Friday at Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe, N.M., where a woman was accidentally killed and a man injured during the filming of “Rust.”


Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.
Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.
“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.

“The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company, " Rust Movie Productions said in a statement. “Though we were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic time.”
The tragedy occurred Thursday afternoon during filming of a gunfight that began in a church that is part of the old Western town at the ranch. Baldwin’s character was supposed to back out of the church, according to production notes obtained by The Times. It was the 12th day of a 21-day shoot.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by the prop gun fired by Baldwin.
The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.


Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fired it, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.
The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.
rrived as expected at 6:30 a.m. and began gathering their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told The Times.
Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.


But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.
Hutchins had been advocating for safer conditions for her team and was tearful when the camera crew left, said one crew member who was on the set.
“She said, ‘I feel like I’m losing my best friends,’” recalled one of the workers.
As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.
One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.
“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.
The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.



The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said deputies were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set after calls to 911 at 1:50 p.m. Thursday. Baldwin was starring in the movie and was serving as one of the producers.
No charges have been filed, but the Sheriff’s Office said that “witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives.”
Baldwin said Friday that he was “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours,” Baldwin wrote Friday in a series of tweets.
Production has been halted on the movie.
In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”

“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said. The New Mexico-based crew was represented by a different local.
A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.
Bonanza Creek Ranch has been a popular filming location for more than 60 years. The first movie to film there was “The Man From Laramie,” starring Jimmy Stewart. It also was the set for “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” and the popular TV show “Longmire.”
One of the financiers for “Rust” is Santa Monica-based lender BondIt Media Capital, founded in 2013 by Matthew Helderman and Luke Taylor. According to its website, BondIt finances movies through instruments including gap loans, bridge loans and tax credit financing.
The company has primarily financed low-budget movies including the Bruce Willis action flick “Hard Kill,” the Charlotte Kirk horror flick “The Reckoning” and the upcoming Robert De Niro film “Wash Me in the River,” directed by Randall Emmett.
BondIt was particularly active during the COVID-19 pandemic, stepping in to fill financing gaps as independent producers struggled to find backing for films during the public health crisis.
 
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Ionian

Member
Here's the whole article for anyone interested:

Hours before actor Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer on the New Mexico set of “Rust” with a prop gun, a half-dozen camera crew workers walked off the set to protest working conditions.
The camera operators and their assistants were frustrated by the conditions surrounding the low-budget film, including complaints about long hours, long commutes and waiting for their paychecks, according to three people familiar with the matter who were not authorized to comment.
Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.
Production was shut down Friday at Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe, N.M., where a woman was accidentally killed and a man injured during the filming of “Rust.”


Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.
Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.
“There should have been an investigation into what happened,” a crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”
A colleague was so alarmed by the prop gun misfires that he sent a text message to the unit production manager. “We’ve now had 3 accidental discharges. This is super unsafe,” according to a copy of the message reviewed by The Times.

“The safety of our cast and crew is the top priority of Rust Productions and everyone associated with the company, " Rust Movie Productions said in a statement. “Though we were not made aware of any official complaints concerning weapon or prop safety on set, we will be conducting an internal review of our procedures while production is shut down. We will continue to cooperate with the Santa Fe authorities in their investigation and offer mental health services to the cast and crew during this tragic time.”
The tragedy occurred Thursday afternoon during filming of a gunfight that began in a church that is part of the old Western town at the ranch. Baldwin’s character was supposed to back out of the church, according to production notes obtained by The Times. It was the 12th day of a 21-day shoot.

Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was huddled around a monitor lining up her next camera shot when she was accidentally killed by the prop gun fired by Baldwin.
The actor was preparing to film a scene in which he pulls a gun out of a holster, according to a source close to the production. Crew members had already shouted “cold gun” on the set. The filmmaking team was lining up its camera angles and had yet to retreat to the video village, an on-set area where the crew gathers to watch filming from a distance via a monitor.
Instead, the B-camera operator was on a dolly with a monitor, checking out the potential shots. Hutchins was also looking at the monitor from over the operator’s shoulder, as was the movie’s director, Joel Souza, who was crouching just behind her.
Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he did so, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.


Late Friday, the Associated Press reported that Baldwin was handed a loaded weapon by an assistant director who indicated it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fired it, according to court records. The assistant director did not know the prop gun was loaded with live rounds, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe County court.
The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.
rrived as expected at 6:30 a.m. and began gathering their gear and personal belongings to leave, one knowledgeable crew member told The Times.
Labor trouble had been brewing for days on the dusty set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch near Santa Fe.
Shooting began on Oct. 6 and members of the low-budget film said they had been promised the production would pay for their hotel rooms in Santa Fe.


But after filming began, the crews were told they instead would be required to make the 50-mile drive from Albuquerque each day, rather than stay overnight in nearby Santa Fe. That rankled crew members who worried that they might have an accident after spending 12 to 13 hours on the set.
Hutchins had been advocating for safer conditions for her team and was tearful when the camera crew left, said one crew member who was on the set.
“She said, ‘I feel like I’m losing my best friends,’” recalled one of the workers.
As the camera crew — members of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees — spent about an hour assembling their gear at the Bonanza Creek Ranch, several nonunion crew members showed up to replace them, two of the knowledgeable people said.
One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.
“Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” the knowledgeable person said.
The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.



The Santa Fe County Sheriff’s Office said deputies were dispatched to the Bonanza Creek Ranch movie set after calls to 911 at 1:50 p.m. Thursday. Baldwin was starring in the movie and was serving as one of the producers.
No charges have been filed, but the Sheriff’s Office said that “witnesses continue to be interviewed by detectives.”
Baldwin said Friday that he was “fully cooperating with the police investigation” into the incident.
“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours,” Baldwin wrote Friday in a series of tweets.
Production has been halted on the movie.
In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”

“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said. The New Mexico-based crew was represented by a different local.
A source close to the union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.
Bonanza Creek Ranch has been a popular filming location for more than 60 years. The first movie to film there was “The Man From Laramie,” starring Jimmy Stewart. It also was the set for “The Ballad of Buster Scruggs” and the popular TV show “Longmire.”
One of the financiers for “Rust” is Santa Monica-based lender BondIt Media Capital, founded in 2013 by Matthew Helderman and Luke Taylor. According to its website, BondIt finances movies through instruments including gap loans, bridge loans and tax credit financing.
The company has primarily financed low-budget movies including the Bruce Willis action flick “Hard Kill,” the Charlotte Kirk horror flick “The Reckoning” and the upcoming Robert De Niro film “Wash Me in the River,” directed by Randall Emmett.
BondIt was particularly active during the COVID-19 pandemic, stepping in to fill financing gaps as independent producers struggled to find backing for films during the public health crisis.

Cheers dude!
 
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jason10mm

Gold Member
My read of that long article is that Alec was doing a dry run of his scene (which might involve firing blanks) and deliberately dry fired his weapon in what ended up being an unsafe direction because the film crew were still out setting up. They may have been behind a wall or screen so he didn't know, he may have pointed it directly at them intentionally because they were "downrange" for the scene and wouldn't be there during the live shoot, or for some reason he pointed the revolver "up range" when it had a negligent discharge.

I'm curious how privy he was to the previous negligent discharges as that should have influenced how much care he displayed with his own weapon.
 

Jaysen

Banned
Expert armorers have been asked how this can happen, and who is responsible.

“In one instance when, "We did have a gun on set," Jay said Halls consistently tried to either skip or hurry through the safety run-throughs. "I would want to have these safety meetings. I can show them [actors] that the chamber is empty, the magazine is empty, so they can be comfortable on set. I'm the only person who holds it, or maybe an armorer if you wanted a flashbang effect. The AD is supposed to check it each time, they are supposed to be the last line of defense. He would always roll his eyes. 'Do we need to do a safety meeting?' He would do it and he would be flippant. 'Well guys, we've got a gun on set, same as always.'"

So yeah, the idea that the last line of defense is the actor is fucking wrong and stupid.

But an emphasis is put on actors to not aim a live weapon at another person on set ever. Problem was Alec and the crew were specifically told the weapon was cold. And he wasn’t aiming the weapon when it fired, he was pulling it from a holster. Either way, the DP and armorer are in for some real shit over this, as are the producers, of which Baldwin is one.

TMZ reporting that the gun in question was also being used off hours with real bullets for target practice.
 

jason10mm

Gold Member
Expert armorers have been asked how this can happen, and who is responsible.

“In one instance when, "We did have a gun on set," Jay said Halls consistently tried to either skip or hurry through the safety run-throughs. "I would want to have these safety meetings. I can show them [actors] that the chamber is empty, the magazine is empty, so they can be comfortable on set. I'm the only person who holds it, or maybe an armorer if you wanted a flashbang effect. The AD is supposed to check it each time, they are supposed to be the last line of defense. He would always roll his eyes. 'Do we need to do a safety meeting?' He would do it and he would be flippant. 'Well guys, we've got a gun on set, same as always.'"

So yeah, the idea that the last line of defense is the actor is fucking wrong and stupid.

But an emphasis is put on actors to not aim a live weapon at another person on set ever. Problem was Alec and the crew were specifically told the weapon was cold. And he wasn’t aiming the weapon when it fired, he was pulling it from a holster. Either way, the DP and armorer are in for some real shit over this, as are the producers, of which Baldwin is one.

TMZ reporting that the gun in question was also being used off hours with real bullets for target practice.
YES! Why are you so resistant to the idea that an actor should NEVER aim a weapon at a person unless there are very specific safety procedures in place? What acting gigs have you had where you were handed a weapon and then allowed to do whatever you wanted with it because the "last line of defense" was the AD and not you? There is some sort of weird mental block going on here, probably a total lack of any weapon handling experience outside of a vidja game.

The single action revolver, for example, MUST have the hammer manually cocked in order for the trigger to be able to release it and fire a round. That is why it is called a SINGLE action, the trigger just does one thing, release the hammer. In a modern DOUBLE action revolver the trigger does TWO things, cock the hammer and release it. So Alec had to physically cock the revolver, and then physically depress the trigger to make it go bang (possibly it got hung up in part of his costume or something) so I strongly suspect he intentionally pressed the trigger but did NOT expect it to go bang. But was he following the sets safety rules about when and where you can point a potential live firing weapon before pulling a trigger? I strongly suspect he did not since there were people down range of his dry fire rehearsal.

I know this is a lot for you to process, take some time and reflect on it.
 
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