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[BearNecessity]

I have no faith in the legal system when it comes to the wealthy. He'll get off again... Just like all other wealthy people who commit crimes (unless they commit a crime against another wealthy person).

Yes. Like when that guy who shot Brandon Lee only got off because he's a wealthy millionaire.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Look how long it took for them to catch Epstein.
Jimmy Saville while not stinking rich was connected to people in power and went to his grave without facing any consequences for his actions.
Money (and powerful connections) does indeed buy you immunity from the justice system.
Its sickening.

Like the Epstein sealed blackmail and/or protected client list. They only clip the tips of the split ends.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Oh no!

He looked so comfy when the charges were first dropped

They would  dare disturb this innocent man's well-earned comfiness?

 

[Trilobit]

Oh no!

He looked so comfy when the charges were first dropped

 

[BlackTron]

I think that his attorney advised him to say that he did not pull the trigger very very early on, which has come back to haunt him. Because it caught him in a lie.

He may have been better off admitting he pulled the trigger but calling upon other mitigating factors, but they bet wrong.

 

[Happosai]

Good. Noone should get off from taking a life so callously, mistake or not. It's manslaughter, and he should pay the price.

Well said. Baldwin has always been incredibly arrogant and prison can humble someone like that. Even if it be a few months. If it doesn't humble them...it does deprive them of certain luxuries which they've lived with far too long. I recall (coming from Illinois) when Rod Blagojevich (former governor) was arrested and imprisoned for attempting to 'auction off' Obama's senator chair. We knew he was feeling the pain when he could no longer color his hair lol source

 

[Dural]

Well said. Baldwin has always been incredibly arrogant and prison can humble someone like that. Even if it be a few months. If it doesn't humble them...it does deprive them of certain luxuries which they've lived with far too long. I recall (coming from Illinois) when Rod Blagojevich (former governor) was arrested and imprisoned for attempting to 'auction off' Obama's senator chair. We knew he was feeling the pain when he could no longer color his hair lol source

And then those super smart people from Chicago went and voted in one of his cronies (twice!) that was recorded by the FBI colluding with Blago, gotta love Illinois politics!

 

[pachura]

 

[ahtlas7]

No idea why real guns are still used on set. Replicas could easily replace fireable ones.

 

[Happosai]

And then those super smart people from Chicago went and voted in one of his cronies (twice!) that was recorded by the FBI colluding with Blago, gotta love Illinois politics!

Well, I won't let this get too much into the political side but Illinois has it's problems...particularly those who think Chicago is the State (I live abroad and that's how people think of it internationally too). My point was had someone in Hollywood ever been sentenced like Blago -- you'd see those luxuries going away. Baldwin just needs to be humbled and I highly doubt he'd be going to some run down prison but just a fancy lock in. However, the feeling of being locked away from the outside world...that's one thing that really hurts most about being in prison. Unfortunately, I've yet to see very many in Hollywood aside from Cosby or (eventually) the Weinstein brothers get put away for doing something criminal.

 

[Toons]

Use plastic non functional stand ins on set at all times, CGI the fx in post.

Literally no reason not to do this at this point, you could hire a youtuber to do the fx at this point.

 

[Dural]

Well, I won't let this get too much into the political side but Illinois has it's problems...particularly those who think Chicago is the State (I live abroad and that's how people think of it internationally too). My point was had someone in Hollywood ever been sentenced like Blago -- you'd see those luxuries going away. Baldwin just needs to be humbled and I highly doubt he'd be going to some run down prison but just a fancy lock in. However, the feeling of being locked away from the outside world...that's one thing that really hurts most about being in prison. Unfortunately, I've yet to see very many in Hollywood aside from Cosby or (eventually) the Weinstein brothers get put away for doing something criminal.

Agreed, the rich seriously think they can do whatever the hell they want and the media is out there just supporting it. They give them the platform to say and do whatever and back them up without ever pushing back on them. They won't give everyday ordinary people a platform, in fact, they try as hard as they can to stop them as much as they can.

 

[Grildon Tundy]

Alec "Deadshot" Baldwin: The Rootin'-est Tootin'-est Cinematographer Shootin'-est Actor this Side o' the Mississippi

 

[BossLackey]

Use plastic non functional stand ins on set at all times, CGI the fx in post.

Literally no reason not to do this at this point, you could hire a youtuber to do the fx at this point.

I completely disagree. Yes, it's more dangerous to have a real gun on set, but so is driving a real car during a stunt (hell it should be very safe if people were doing their jobs).

Fake gunshots are hyper noticeable. To me at least. You will always have a better end product with blanks in a real gun. You cannot fake recoil or muzzle flip and even the stuff you can fake still looks like shit (muzzle flash and weapon action primarily).

 

[Patrick S.]

I completely disagree. Yes, it's more dangerous to have a real gun on set, but so is driving a real car during a stunt (hell it should be very safe if people were doing their jobs).

Fake gunshots are hyper noticeable. To me at least. You will always have a better end product with blanks in a real gun. You cannot fake recoil or muzzle flip and even the stuff you can fake still looks like shit (muzzle flash and weapon action primarily).

Honestly? That’s an acceptable trade off if it means no more people lose their lives while pretending to be pew pewing.

 

[DeepEnigma]

How about proper gun safely rules are followed? Especially in OSHA/Unionized environments, which the film industry is.

You have to do it if this were your backyard, a certain class of people should not be exempt. Stop accepting peasanty and classism.

The end.

 

[NickFire]

I think that his attorney advised him to say that he did not pull the trigger very very early on, which has come back to haunt him. Because it caught him in a lie.

He may have been better off admitting he pulled the trigger but calling upon other mitigating factors, but they bet wrong.

Here's the thing ---> If he admitted to pulling the trigger he would have admitted to violating the most basic gun safety rules that would have completely prevented this tragedy. "I didn't think it was loaded" is not a defense to pointing a gun at a human, pulling the trigger, and killing them. It may be a defense to certain types of charges that require specific intent, but that does not shield a person from charges based on negligent or reckless acts.

 

[jason10mm]

Use plastic non functional stand ins on set at all times, CGI the fx in post.

Literally no reason not to do this at this point, you could hire a youtuber to do the fx at this point.

Not to rehash this discussion AGAIN, but for old west black powder weapons it is VERY expensive and difficult to cg replicate the cloud coming out. Quite different than the cg muzzle flash and blood spurt of modern weapons, both of which look bad as well but at least are cheap to do. Plus there are DECADES of experience on how to do it safely. It's when you ignore safety that problems occur, like we see here.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Here's the thing ---> If he admitted to pulling the trigger he would have admitted to violating the most basic gun safety rules that would have completely prevented this tragedy. "I didn't think it was loaded" is not a defense to pointing a gun at a human, pulling the trigger, and killing them. It may be a defense to certain types of charges that require specific intent, but that does not shield a person from charges based on negligent or reckless acts.

Rlus there are DECADES of experience on how to do it safely. It's when you ignore safety that problems occur, like we see here.

 

[dave_d]

How about proper gun safely rules are followed? Especially in OSHA/Unionized environments, which the film industry is.

You have to do it if this were your backyard, a certain class of people should not be exempt. Stop accepting peasanty and classism.

The end.

You mean pretty much follow the 4 rules that I posted earlier which are

The 4 universal rules of gun safety are:

1. Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

Those would be a good start.

 

[DeepEnigma]

You mean pretty much follow the 4 rules that I posted earlier which are

The 4 universal rules of gun safety are:

1. Treat all guns as if they are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle point at anything that you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target and you have made the decision to shoot.
4. Be sure of your target and what is behind it.

Those would be a good start.

And I as well posted since the start of this thread, many times. The beauty of those rules, they are designed that if you break just one, you break them all.

 

[dave_d]

And I as well posted since the start of this thread, many times. The beauty of those rules, they are designed that if you break just one, you break them all.

I'm just amazed that when I posted them a couple pages back someone said they were basically too hard to follow.(If you're handling a deadly weapon you probably should be pretty careful.)

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm just amazed that when I posted them a couple pages back someone said they were basically too hard to follow.(If you're handling a deadly weapon you probably should be pretty careful.)

 

[Toons]

I completely disagree. Yes, it's more dangerous to have a real gun on set, but so is driving a real car during a stunt (hell it should be very safe if people were doing their jobs).

Fake gunshots are hyper noticeable. To me at least. You will always have a better end product with blanks in a real gun. You cannot fake recoil or muzzle flip and even the stuff you can fake still looks like shit (muzzle flash and weapon action primarily).

Its not only possible, its already been done in countless movies.

Entire shot is CG, the guns in this movie were all fine.

Most certainly chases nowadays use SOME CG as well. People really don't get how much CG gets used in movies that they never even know about.

That last Batman movie we got? His cape was CG the entire time, and you never even noticed it. The cape is literslly not even there unless its a scene where he's standing completely still. Any time he's moving the thing is CG, and it looks indistinguishable from the real thing.

And you're telling me they cant recreate a muzzle flash? Of course they can.

There is zero good reason to not use plastic stand ins at this point. It saves time, money, and lives.

Not to rehash this discussion AGAIN, but for old west black powder weapons it is VERY expensive and difficult to cg replicate the cloud coming out. Quite different than the cg muzzle flash and blood spurt of modern weapons, both of which look bad as well but at least are cheap to do. Plus there are DECADES of experience on how to do it safely. It's when you ignore safety that problems occur, like we see here.

You know what else is difficult? Telling a person their mother/father/sister/brother is dead and gone because of a freak accident involving a very real weapon, and a dangerous one.

The 5% of people who will care about the accuracy of the smoke coming out of the barrel aren't a very convincing counteragrument.

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[jason10mm]

Its not only possible, its already been done in countless movies.

Blah blah blah

The 5% of people who will care about the accuracy of the smoke coming out of the barrel aren't a very convincing counteragrument.

Are you daft? Horse kick yah in the head?

Have you EVER seen an old west black powder pistol go off versus a modern smokeless powder pistol?

Here is a hint, hotshot, "smokeless" didn't exist back then, every shot puffed out a cloud of smoke, recreating that with CG is EXPENSIVE versus using a blank. Recreating the hammer cock and rotating cylinder mechanism on a non firing replica is expensive, versus just using a live weapon bit properly managing the loads it has and how it is handled.

And did you REALLY just compare the effects for one of the MOST EXPENSIVE films OF ALL TIME to an indie western?

Check your priviledge, bub.

 

[Patrick S.]

Are you daft? Horse kick yah in the head?

Have you EVER seen an old west black powder pistol go off versus a modern smokeless powder pistol?

Here is a hint, hotshot, "smokeless" didn't exist back then, every shot puffed out a cloud of smoke, recreating that with CG is EXPENSIVE versus using a blank. Recreating the hammer cock and rotating cylinder mechanism on a non firing replica is expensive, versus just using a live weapon bit properly managing the loads it has and how it is handled.

And did you REALLY just compare the effects for one of the MOST EXPENSIVE films OF ALL TIME to an indie western?

Check your priviledge, bub.

Dude, you’re an asshole. Who gives a shit about „gunshot smoke accuracy“ other than an autist with OCD? Why do you feel it’s ok to belittle other posters like that?

 

[jason10mm]

Dude, you’re an asshole. Who gives a shit about „gunshot smoke accuracy“ other than an autist with OCD? Why do you feel it’s ok to belittle other posters like that?

Because we've gone round and round and he is being deliberately obtuse. And calling folks who want realism and period accuracy in their period films, "autists", is being a neurodivergent denigrating asshole yourself, so welcome to the ahole club, I guess.

 

[TheDreadBaron]

Dude, you’re an asshole. Who gives a shit about „gunshot smoke accuracy“ other than an autist with OCD? Why do you feel it’s ok to belittle other posters like that?

Woof, this aint it chief.

The audience cares whether the smoke looks fake, it’s a big part of the appeal of a dusty western.

What was the point you were trying to make about belittling people? Falls a little flat while you’re simultaneously insulting autistic people, don’t you think?

 

[Toons]

Are you daft? Horse kick yah in the head?

Have you EVER seen an old west black powder pistol go off versus a modern smokeless powder pistol?

Here is a hint, hotshot, "smokeless" didn't exist back then, every shot puffed out a cloud of smoke, recreating that with CG is EXPENSIVE versus using a blank. Recreating the hammer cock and rotating cylinder mechanism on a non firing replica is expensive, versus just using a live weapon bit properly managing the loads it has and how it is handled.

And did you REALLY just compare the effects for one of the MOST EXPENSIVE films OF ALL TIME to an indie western?

Check your priviledge, bub.

Its 2023 my guy. I've seen nobodies on YouTube pull of CG fx that rival big budget films. The notion they can't recreate an old school gun is nonsense. CG can create talking raccoons, realistic water, alien creatures and everything else. It can create capes that are so real you csnt even tell they are fake.

It can create a gun, and the FX. Is it expensive? Sure. Whats the price of saftey?

There isn't one. There is ZERO reason not to use CG to reduce actual guns on set.

 

[Toons]

Dude, you’re an asshole. Who gives a shit about „gunshot smoke accuracy“ other than an autist with OCD? Why do you feel it’s ok to belittle other posters like safety?

The answer is "no one gives a flying rats ass about gun smoke".

And even if they do, CG can recreate it to the point even the gun snobs wouldn't be able to tell. Its not even a question of can it be done. It can, and it wouldn't even be that hard for an experienced animator to do it.

Im not being obtuse, I'm acknowledging the reality that some aren't willing to our of some kind of attachment to practical effects. I love practical effects to but were way past the hump where prices dictates things like this, and for the 100% guaranteed safety of everyone on set who has to handle firearms, there IS no price too high.

 

[jason10mm]

Eh, I'll take blanks and proper gun safety with the resultant film limitations over waving fake guns around with CG muzzle flashes any day of the week. ESPECIALLY for westerns. A glitzy cgi laden over produced western is so terrible to watch. There are plenty of ways to cut film to allow for close quarters shooting, the john wick style stuff has limited appeal for me.

Now conversely, Witcher style cg allowing for sword fights with half blades, IS exciting tech as it brings something new. Though I still prefer real archers shooting arrows at folks

 

[CGNoire]

Its not only possible, its already been done in countless movies.

Entire shot is CG, the guns in this movie were all fine.

Most certainly chases nowadays use SOME CG as well. People really don't get how much CG gets used in movies that they never even know about.

That last Batman movie we got? His cape was CG the entire time, and you never even noticed it. The cape is literslly not even there unless its a scene where he's standing completely still. Any time he's moving the thing is CG, and it looks indistinguishable from the real thing.

And you're telling me they cant recreate a muzzle flash? Of course they can.

There is zero good reason to not use plastic stand ins at this point. It saves time, money, and lives.



You know what else is difficult? Telling a person their mother/father/sister/brother is dead and gone because of a freak accident involving a very real weapon, and a dangerous one.

The 5% of people who will care about the accuracy of the smoke coming out of the barrel aren't a very convincing counteragrument.

Nah squibs and real smoke and debris trumps fake cg every damm time. There is just to much chaos involved for a cg tech to get all the knock on ephemeral nuance.

 

[jshackles]

Alec Baldwin to be recharged with involuntary manslaughter in Rust shooting

Actor’s case in connection with fatal film shooting in 2021 will reportedly be brought before grand jury in mid-November

www.theguardian.com

 

[AJUMP23]

Where is the shot of Alec grieving now?

 

[Lord Panda]

Where is the shot of Alec grieving now?

 

[Billbofet]

This looks like a picture of Alec grieving over the loss of his family's footwear.

 

[nbcjr]

Alec Baldwin to be recharged with involuntary manslaughter in Rust shooting

Actor’s case in connection with fatal film shooting in 2021 will reportedly be brought before grand jury in mid-November

www.theguardian.com

I hope one day justice is served

 

[F0rneus]

Are you daft? Horse kick yah in the head?

Have you EVER seen an old west black powder pistol go off versus a modern smokeless powder pistol?

Here is a hint, hotshot, "smokeless" didn't exist back then, every shot puffed out a cloud of smoke, recreating that with CG is EXPENSIVE versus using a blank. Recreating the hammer cock and rotating cylinder mechanism on a non firing replica is expensive, versus just using a live weapon bit properly managing the loads it has and how it is handled.

And did you REALLY just compare the effects for one of the MOST EXPENSIVE films OF ALL TIME to an indie western?

Check your priviledge, bub.

But he didn't shoot a black powder revolver though. It was a Pietta replica of a cartridge revolver (the saa), which came a bit after the percussion revolvers.

 

[jason10mm]

But he didn't shoot a black powder revolver though. It was a Pietta replica of a cartridge revolver (the saa), which came a bit after the percussion revolvers.

They still loaded with black powder though, More modern smokeless powder, invented in the 1880s somewhere, was not ubiquitous and many folks still used black powder. Integrated cartridge with a primer, sure, but black powder inside. Def not a cap n'ball revolver though, those were all phased out in the War of Northe....err, Civil War

 

[F0rneus]

They still loaded with black powder though, More modern smokeless powder, invented in the 1880s somewhere, was not ubiquitous and many folks still used black powder. Integrated cartridge with a primer, sure, but black powder inside. Def not a cap n'ball revolver though, those were all phased out in the War of Northe....err, Civil War

Actually after Colt put out the saa, a lot of Remingtons and Colt Navys were retooled to be fitted with cartridges which no, were not black powder. Black powder stopped after the first cartridges (technically, a lot of people stuck with it for quite a while) and then caliber and cartridges shifted around until the early 1900s when .38 special was adopted as the defacto worldwide cartridge.

I....I love guns. I know a lot about guns. I can tell you the entire history from the Colt Navy all the way to the .357 magnum (the reason why smith and wesson had to make different revolvers thanks to human stupidity), and the 44 special and then magnum and...even more. I even want to get into an argument into why a Remington Army cap and ball is still superior to the saa.

 

[jason10mm]

Actually after Colt put out the saa, a lot of Remingtons and Colt Navys were retooled to be fitted with cartridges which no, were not black powder. Black powder stopped after the first cartridges (technically, a lot of people stuck with it for quite a while) and then caliber and cartridges shifted around until the early 1900s when .38 special was adopted as the defacto worldwide cartridge.

I....I love guns. I know a lot about guns. I can tell you the entire history from the Colt Navy all the way to the .357 magnum (the reason why smith and wesson had to make different revolvers thanks to human stupidity), and the 44 special and then magnum and...even more. I even want to get into an argument into why a Remington Army cap and ball is still superior to the saa.

I'm not one to throw wiki looks around as if they are authoritative, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

There are probably shades of "black powder" over the 1800s but I think most folks differentiate between black powder and smokeless powder and most definitely there were SAAs amongst other weapons using BP.

 

[F0rneus]

I'm not one to throw wiki looks around as if they are authoritative, but https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Colt

There are probably shades of "black powder" over the 1800s but I think most folks differentiate between black powder and smokeless powder and most definitely there were SAAs amongst other weapons using BP.

The black powder .45 didn't last long. The guns were ill-equipped for the powder load. Yes it's historically accurate but...shit when does the movie takes place lol? That's very important haha

shit this is getting off topic now (no I can't capitalize the letter s unless I copy paste thanks to a drink accident)....But....Guns are cool and their history is deep and fascinating.

 

[rkofan87]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo man some one in the da hate this guy sad get over it man.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo man some one in the da hate this guy sad get over it man.

Someone died. And we should "get over it"?

 

[rkofan87]

Someone died. And we should "get over it"?

no but the da needs to stop trying to get ab it was sad accident .

 

[Daneel Elijah]

no but the da needs to stop trying to get ab it was sad accident .

In a pro setting. If it have been in his house, then I would agree. But here this should never have happened, and could not have happened if all procedures have been followed. It deserves a clear answer and we have yet to have one.

 

[Trogdor1123]

no but the da needs to stop trying to get ab it was sad accident .

What does this even mean?

 

[JohnnyPhats]

What does this even mean?

Sounds like whining the MEAN district attorney is DARING to hold Alec Baldwin accountable. Accident or not, it’s a homicide. Any normal person would have at least been convicted of negligent homicide.

 

[cormack12]

Alec Baldwin faces fresh manslaughter charge over 'Rust' shooting

A New Mexico grand jury has charged the actor anew over the on-set shooting death of Halyna Hutchins.

www.bbc.co.uk

A grand jury in New Mexico has charged Alec Baldwin with a count of involuntary manslaughter over a fatal movie set shooting in October 2021.