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Alice: Madness Returns |OT|

Ken

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
I use the
teapot cannon
, but they still take forever to kill. Is there somewhere specific you have to shoot them?
Wait for the usual ruin baby face to pop out of the mass of goo. Usually holding down lock on will automatically switch to exposed faces. Then just circle around until you can see it and use either ranged weapons to blow it up. Once you've destroyed enough faces, one larger face will appear and blowing that up kills it.

Also, just to throw it out there: shrinking helps avoid his grab completely.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Ken said:
Wait for the usual ruin baby face to pop out of the mass of goo. Usually holding down lock on will automatically switch to exposed faces. Then just circle around until you can see it and use either ranged weapons to blow it up. Once you've destroyed enough faces, one larger face will appear and blowing that up kills it.

Also, just to throw it out there: shrinking helps avoid his grab completely.

Sweet, thanks. I didn't notice there were heads popping out you had to target. And thanks for the shrinking tip :D
 
Just completed the game. Fun game. Long and a bit drawn out at times, but fun.

So let me get this straight: ENDING SPOILERS

Bumby raped lizzy, set the house on fire and then wants to rape/prostitute Alice while making her forget about the night of the fire?
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Tizoc said:
There's a DLC for Alice MR on the PS Store, is it worth getting or can I skip it?

They are very helpful/useful if you want to play on harder difficulties or collect everything.
 

Grisby

Member
BackwardsSuggestions said:
Just completed the game. Fun game. Long and a bit drawn out at times, but fun.

So let me get this straight: ENDING SPOILERS

Bumby raped lizzy, set the house on fire and then wants to rape/prostitute Alice while making her forget about the night of the fire?

Thats basically how I interpreted it. Freaking dark. One of the first games in a long while to make me feel uncomfortable.

Another ending spoiler:

To top it all off Alice commits murder herself.
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Grisby said:
Thats basically how I interpreted it. Freaking dark. One of the first games in a long while to make me feel uncomfortable.

imho It's on level with Silent Hill 1/2 level of dark and sickness, seriously the entire thing was freaking amazing,and top notch storytelling.
 

Yurt

il capo silenzioso
Grisby said:
Thats basically how I interpreted it. Freaking dark. One of the first games in a long while to make me feel uncomfortable.

Another ending spoiler:

To top it all off Alice commits murder herself.

Can I add something too :p ?

she probably went insane too, the two worlds are mixed and she can't distinguish them from each other. Is that a stretch though :p ?
 

Lesiroth

Member
Just a few questions to see if I will get this game:

- This game is a part of a series AFAIK, are the previous games in the series required material to go through this one?

- How well will I fare if I start with this one?

- What is 'American McGee'?
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Lesiroth said:
Just a few questions to see if I will get this game:

- This game is a part of a series AFAIK, are the previous games in the series required material to go through this one?

- How well will I fare if I start with this one?

- What is 'American McGee'?

There's been only one game prior to this, and you don't really need to play it to understand Alice 2, although it helps in fleshing out the backstory. But if you get a new copy of either console version, you'll get a voucher to download a brushed-up version of the original game for free (if you buy a used copy of either console version, you can still buy Alice 1 HD via the main menu in Alice 2, costs something like 10 bucks).

American McGee is a game designer. He worked at id Software back in the day, and worked on games like Doom 1 + 2 and Quake 1 + 2.
 

Lesiroth

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
There's been only one game prior to this, and you don't really need to play it to understand Alice 2, although it helps in fleshing out the backstory. But if you get a new copy of either console version, you'll get a voucher to download a brushed-up version of the original game for free (if you buy a used copy of either console version, you can still buy Alice 1 HD via the main menu in Alice 2, costs something like 10 bucks).

American McGee is a game designer. He worked at id Software back in the day, and worked on games like Doom 1 + 2 and Quake 1 + 2.
I'd rather play this on my PC if I'd like, I wouldn't mind playing through the original, but how big is the difference between the console-exclusive remake/remaster and the original PC one? and how long is it?

Thanks again!
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Lesiroth said:
I'd rather play this on my PC if I'd like, I wouldn't mind playing through the original, but how big is the difference between the console-exclusive remake/remaster and the original PC one? and how long is it?

Thanks again!

There's not all that much difference from the HD version and the original version (the original can be tweaked to run at fairly high resolutions anyway), although it's hard to find the original for PC nowadays (it goes for ridiculous sums on Amazon). EA's Origin store had a limited time offer where you got the Complete Collection (Alice 1 HD and Alice 2 + DLC) for PC, but the offer's ended now, sadly. Be aware that the controls in Alice 1 are quite clunky though.

As for the length.. I can't remember how long it took me to beat it, but it's a fairly hard game, even on easy, so I'd guess you'd spend something like 8-10 hours on it.
 

Lesiroth

Member
Combichristoffersen said:
There's not all that much difference from the HD version and the original version (the original can be tweaked to run at fairly high resolutions anyway), although it's hard to find the original for PC nowadays (it goes for ridiculous sums on Amazon). EA's Origin store had a limited time offer where you got the Complete Collection (Alice 1 HD and Alice 2 + DLC) for PC, but the offer's ended now, sadly. Be aware that the controls in Alice 1 are quite clunky though.

As for the length.. I can't remember how long it took me to beat it, but it's a fairly hard game, even on easy, so I'd guess you'd spend something like 8-10 hours on it.
Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

Still partly undecided.. To buy or not to buy.. My giant behemoth of a backlog is scaring me enough as it is ;_;
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Lesiroth said:
Gotcha. Thanks for the info!

Still partly undecided.. To buy or not to buy.. My giant behemoth of a backlog is scaring me enough as it is ;_;

Let backlog be backlog and buy Alice: Madness Returns. Spread the word and rejoice :D
 

Totobeni

An blind dancing ho
Combichristoffersen said:
Good, good. You did the right thing. Hopefully Alice 2 will sell enough to make EA and McGee make a sequel :D

American McGee's Oz by Spicy Horse,just thinking about it caused white liquids to coming out of my unholy vagina, EA need to give them all the money they need for it.
 
I'm a good ways into chapter 5 now. I should be playing Ocarina of Time on 3DS... and I really thought Shadows of the Damned would steal my attention, but Alice gets me first, until that infernal train is derailed and decommissioned.

there's six chapters right? is 6 about the same length as the others?
 
Knew nothing about this game - saw some screenshots in the PC thread and my jaw dropped. Looks absolutely incredible.

After reading some mixed reviews I was still on the fence, but glancing over this thread I know I gotta dive in and purchase it. Looks right up my alley.

Too bad EA took the Complete Collection offline - would have loved to play through the first one.
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Totobeni said:
American McGee's Oz by Spicy Horse,just thinking about it caused white liquids to coming out of my unholy vagina, EA need to give them all the money they need for it.

I dunno, I've never been big on the whole Oz thing. I watched the movie as a kid, and though it was OK, I never really got caught up in the whole Oz story/mythology. Oz always seemed like a story that was mostly popular in the US, while Europe and Asia really didn't care all that much. Would be interesting to see what McGee could do with a dark and twisted Oz setting though.

plagiarize said:
there's six chapters right? is 6 about the same length as the others?

I think someone earlier ITT mentioned chapter 6 being fairly short.
 
Combichristoffersen said:
I dunno, I've never been big on the whole Oz thing. I watched the movie as a kid, and though it was OK, I never really got caught up in the whole Oz story/mythology. Oz always seemed like a story that was mostly popular in the US, while Europe and Asia really didn't care all that much. Would be interesting to see what McGee could do with a dark and twisted Oz setting though.
if you haven't seen Return to Oz that should give you a good idea of how dark Oz can get. this team making an Oz game is just as appealing as the original Alice team making an Oz game. maybe we can finally get that too...

but if Alice is the last game i play like this for another ten years, i'll be glad. i never thought i'd get an Alice sequel, and i never dreamed that it would be this much better than the original (which i always liked mainly for the art style, and story and found the gameplay lacking).
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
plagiarize said:
if you haven't seen Return to Oz that should give you a good idea of how dark Oz can get. this team making an Oz game is just as appealing as the original Alice team making an Oz game. maybe we can finally get that too...

but if Alice is the last game i play like this for another ten years, i'll be glad. i never thought i'd get an Alice sequel, and i never dreamed that it would be this much better than the original (which i always liked mainly for the art style, and story and found the gameplay lacking).

I should watch Return to Oz sometime then, as I've only seen the original Oz.

And yeah, I'm glad we got an Alice sequel, not to mention a sequel that is a huge improvement over the already pretty decent original (the worst part of Alice 1 was the clunky control scheme, the Quake III engine was evidently not designed for action adventure platformers).
 
BackwardsSuggestions said:
Just completed the game. Fun game. Long and a bit drawn out at times, but fun.

So let me get this straight: ENDING SPOILERS

Bumby raped lizzy, set the house on fire and then wants to rape/prostitute Alice while making her forget about the night of the fire?

Basically its implied Bumby collects wayward and mentally troubled youth and turns them into sex slaves.

Some people though are interpreting the ending as Alice is making up the whole conspiracy in her head to rationalize the deaths of her family and get over her survivors guilt. It's possible that in reality the conversation is very different and bumby is trying to help alice but shes finally gone totally bonkers and has made all this up in her head and then, after convincing herself, she straight up kills bumby and Wonderland starts phasing into the real world implying shes now completly mad.

However, I don't agree with that interpretation and I think bumby really is a sicko. The ending where she changes into her wonderland form is to represent that while she was meek in real life she was confident in her wonderland and now that she has avenged her family she is as confident in real life as she is in wonderland. Pretty deep stuff.

Combichristoffersen said:
I should watch Return to Oz sometime then, as I've only seen the original Oz.

And yeah, I'm glad we got an Alice sequel, not to mention a sequel that is a huge improvement over the already pretty decent original (the worst part of Alice 1 was the clunky control scheme, the Quake III engine was evidently not designed for action adventure platformers).

Return to Oz is an awsome movie.

The only things I didn't like about this game is that there really weren't any boss fights and the music wasn't remotely near as haunting and good as the first game aside from one or two decent tracks. If they do a third I really hope they bring back the scary bosses, the music, and some of the charecters from the first game (Like the griffin and jaberwocky).
 

kiryogi

Banned
So I'm in agreement with everyone on chapter 2. It really did keep dragging on, but the payoff at the end was bloody disturbing.... If not in a brilliant twisted sort of manner. Also, the final radula room really made the combat shine for me. (As if it didn't before) You really have to control your space or you'll end up dead.
 
Anticitizen One said:
However, I don't agree with that interpretation and I think bumby really is a sicko. The ending where she changes into her wonderland form is to represent that while she was meek in real life she was confident in her wonderland and now that she has avenged her family she is as confident in real life as she is in wonderland. Pretty deep stuff.

Wait,
I took the ending as her realizing what Bumby did and all that. But did she really kill her? If that was actually real world Alice shouldn't she be bald and whatnot from what happened in the asylum? I took the ending to be that she finally uncovered the truth of her family's death, but had gone so mad in the process that she could no longer parse the real world from wonderland.

I think the actual real world Alice has never confronted Bumby and is still in the Asylum getting experimented on.

I don't think any chapter in particular "dragged" for me, I stopped playing for a bit when I wanted to and didn't concern myself with getting to the next chapter. Those chapters are filled with a lot of visual and gameplay variety in themselves.

Edit: In terms of longest stretch without any narrative fulfillment, it'd be chapter 3. You go so long without much in the way of Story progression. Loved fighting those bug samurai, though.
 
So I finished it a few hours ago. Major spoilers incoming for Chapters 5 and 6 as well as the ending.

Chapter 5 (the Dollhouse) is...wow. Not as good as Chapter 4 when it comes to platforming and stuff, but in terms of visuals it's amazing once again. It's such a creepy atomsphere seeing all the toys used as enemies or environmental traps and the puzzles really put a twist on the envornment. They really outdid themselves with the environmental changes here.

The parts where you manouver a doll's head through a parcour are...annoying in my opinion. the very last parcour I could barely finish, not because I sucked at it, but the physics used for the head is just no good here. At times I went so fast that I flew over some of the accelerators, which was why I sat there for 10 minutes trying to get up that wall to the ext of the last parcour.

The insides of the dollhouse though were amazing. I felt a bit of a Silent Hill vibe there, seeing all those skeletons and experiments and these fucked up drawings of a fetus growing inside a person's head, wtf!

Chapter 6 was...yeah well, it was too short for my taste. It practically was nothing but story and the boss fight which is not enough, imo. There could have been another huge bit of platforming, all of it taking place inside the train, but oh well.

Fighting Bumby was hard (I played on Hard difficulty, so yeah). Definitely died the most in this boss fight, but at least the fight hat fair checkpoints. As my luck would have it a bug helped me in fighting Bumbys right hand, leaving the doll head on his hand attackable throughout the fight with it, and the hand not attacking once, just walking around doing nothing.

Final form was nothing noteworthy, but it was a good fight that put my skills to the test. I'm satisfied with it.

The ending...yeah well, I hoped Bumby would have something of a more spectacular death instead of just getting shoved on the train tracks, but alas this ending has to suffice. At least they didn't go all batshit crazy and had Bumby kill Alice, which would have instantly the wonderfulness of this game (an ending can really make or break a game for me).

Also:

Anticitizen One said:
[...]I think bumby really is a sicko. The ending where she changes into her wonderland form is to represent that while she was meek in real life she was confident in her wonderland and now that she has avenged her family she is as confident in real life as she is in wonderland. Pretty deep stuff.

That's how I see it, too. I don't like the thought that Alice just imagined everything so she could get some fake revenge and still get insane. She kills the man who (more likely than not) raped her sister, set the house on fire and killed her entire family. She followed her memories, used the clues she found there and got her revenge. It's a satisfying ending and I wouldn't have it any other way, except for the aforementioned anti-climatic death of Bumby.

Still an awesome game. My GOTY so far.
 

Lime

Member
But regarding the ending:

Doesn't the whole lobotomy / insane asylum negate the ending actually taking place? I mean, Alice gets her head shaven, receives a lobotomy, and suddenly end up as her usual real life self and killing Bumby? That just seems like a jarring transition. Even the realisation that Bumby was the perpetrator happens after the lobotomy.

Nevertheless, I think Alice made a somewhat mental recovery regardless of the ending is real or not. So in a way it does not matter whether or not chapter 5+6 were real, because the point of the ending is that Alice somewhat recovers with her traumatised memories.
 

iammeiam

Member
Lime said:
But regarding the ending:

Doesn't the whole lobotomy / insane asylum negate the ending actually taking place? I mean, Alice gets her head shaven, receives a lobotomy, and suddenly end up as her usual real life self and killing Bumby? That just seems like a jarring transition. Even the realisation that Bumby was the perpetrator happens after the lobotomy.

Nevertheless, I think Alice made a somewhat mental recovery regardless of the ending is real or not. So in a way it does not matter whether or not chapter 5+6 were real, because the point of the ending is that Alice somewhat recovers with her traumatised memories.

Didn't that section show her
getting trepanned, not lobotomized? It's labeled the trepanning room, and they talk about putting a hole in her head, but her brain should theoretically still be intact.

I did have a slightly different take on the ending I guess--I took it as her remembering what actually happened, getting her revenge, but ultimately being incapable of fully regaining her sanity. She didn't get her mind shredded, as letting Bumby win would have done, but I took the spiel at the end to mean that she'd embraced some of her inner crazy and would never get back to normal. And that it was ultimately worth it, since she got truth and justice for the kids she'd been inadvertently helping Bumby abuse out of the deal.
 

Lime

Member
iammeiam said:
Didn't that section show her
getting trepanned, not lobotomized? It's labeled the trepanning room, and they talk about putting a hole in her head, but her brain should theoretically still be intact.

All right, that makes more sense.
 
Started playing though AMA, now. The chunkiness of the controls is greatly overstated. It controls fine, for everything the game has thrown at me so far. Once I understood the camera was fallowing the blue ball cast upon the environment, things made sense. That jumping animation is quite terrible, though. So far the actual jumping controls haven't been an obstacle, yet. Been quick saving frequently, but have only had to load once.

Graphically, the game certainly is a considerable step down from "Madness Returns". But still contain a charm in their whimsical dark vibe. If you're the kind of person that can't stomach old polygonal graphics, I wouldn't play this.

The combat is far more shooter than "Madness Returns" ever was, I don't like it as much, finding it a great deal easier. But I'm only about an hour or so in and throwing my knife at card guards and watching them split in half is satisfying.

I expected it to be nearly unplayable from the way some were talking. The game certainly controls differently from other games, but it's designed around the controls it has. They've never proved to be a hindrance, just different from what you might expect. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, just different.

So yeah, as it stands now, I'm liking it. (music is fantastic)
 
EchosMyron1 said:
Started playing though AMA, now. The chunkiness of the controls is greatly overstated. It controls fine, for everything the game has thrown at me so far. Once I understood the camera was fallowing the blue ball cast upon the environment, things made sense. That jumping animation is quite terrible, though. So far the actual jumping controls haven't been an obstacle, yet. Been quick saving frequently, but have only had to load once.

Graphically, the game certainly is a considerable step down from "Madness Returns". But still contain a charm in their whimsical dark vibe. If you're the kind of person that can't stomach old polygonal graphics, I wouldn't play this.

The combat is far more shooter than "Madness Returns" ever was, I don't like it as much, finding it a great deal easier. But I'm only about an hour or so in and throwing my knife at card guards and watching them split in half is satisfying.

I expected it to be nearly unplayable from the way some were talking. The game certainly controls differently from other games, but it's designed around the controls it has. They've never proved to be a hindrance, just different from what you might expect. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, just different.

So yeah, as it stands now, I'm liking it. (music is fantastic)
I'm not sure how far you are, but the game gets near unplayable about half way through. Too many enemies at once, and glitchy jumps that cause instant deaths.
 

Ricker

Member
Goddam it,I`m stuck again in chapter 4...it`s that little section at the halfway mark I guess,where you have those small platforms,with a card sign on them and a small chain that hangs from them...if you step on one,it lowers slowly,making another one further away rise up slowly and so on...there`s a jump I can`t make to proceed because of this...I tried sticking a bomb on one but that doesn`t help...that jump seems impossible for now(I found the snout and shot that but it showed me something I can`t reach either)...what`s the trick here??
 

frequency

Member
EchosMyron1 said:
Started playing though AMA, now. The chunkiness of the controls is greatly overstated. It controls fine, for everything the game has thrown at me so far. Once I understood the camera was fallowing the blue ball cast upon the environment, things made sense. That jumping animation is quite terrible, though. So far the actual jumping controls haven't been an obstacle, yet. Been quick saving frequently, but have only had to load once.

Graphically, the game certainly is a considerable step down from "Madness Returns". But still contain a charm in their whimsical dark vibe. If you're the kind of person that can't stomach old polygonal graphics, I wouldn't play this.

The combat is far more shooter than "Madness Returns" ever was, I don't like it as much, finding it a great deal easier. But I'm only about an hour or so in and throwing my knife at card guards and watching them split in half is satisfying.

I expected it to be nearly unplayable from the way some were talking. The game certainly controls differently from other games, but it's designed around the controls it has. They've never proved to be a hindrance, just different from what you might expect. That's not a bad thing, or a good thing, just different.

So yeah, as it stands now, I'm liking it. (music is fantastic)
It's not unplayable. It'll just test your patience in the trickier sections later on. I imagine much more so with a controller if you have it on console.

Ricker said:
Goddam it,I`m stuck again in chapter 4...it`s that little section at the halfway mark I guess,where you have those small platforms,with a card sign on them and a small chain that hangs from them...if you step on one,it lowers slowly,making another one further away rise up slowly and so on...there`s a jump I can`t make to proceed because of this...I tried sticking a bomb on one but that doesn`t help...that jump seems impossible for now(I found the snout and shot that but it showed me something I can`t reach either)...what`s the trick here??
There's a few of those in the chapter, so I'm not sure which one you're talking about. But for all of them, I just put a bomb down so the other one woudl raise. Sometimes while on the rising one, I had to jump and float so as not to put weight on it for it to continue rising.
 
Lime said:
But regarding the ending:

Doesn't the whole lobotomy / insane asylum negate the ending actually taking place? I mean, Alice gets her head shaven, receives a lobotomy, and suddenly end up as her usual real life self and killing Bumby? That just seems like a jarring transition. Even the realisation that Bumby was the perpetrator happens after the lobotomy.

Nevertheless, I think Alice made a somewhat mental recovery regardless of the ending is real or not. So in a way it does not matter whether or not chapter 5+6 were real, because the point of the ending is that Alice somewhat recovers with her traumatised memories.

The asylum level in between chapter 4 and 5 is a twisted flashback shes having of her time back in the asylum. It's actually a nod to the original games manuel which even mentioned she kept refering to the orderlies as "tweedledee and tweedledum". It's not actually happening in real life it was all in her head
 
canadian crowe said:
I'm not sure how far you are, but the game gets near unplayable about half way through. Too many enemies at once, and glitchy jumps that cause instant deaths.

It's not "unplayable" I just beat the ps3 port in 2 days. Even with the glitches. I kept multiple save slots so if I had a problem with one I would jump to the other.
 
Anticitizen One said:
It's not "unplayable" I just beat the ps3 port in 2 days. Even with the glitches. I kept multiple save slots so if I had a problem with one I would jump to the other.
True, unplayable is an exaggeration. Unpleasant is more accurate. It took me about 2 days to beat it too, is the ending ever explained in the sequel
like how she ends up back at the asylum?
 
canadian crowe said:
True, unplayable is an exaggeration. Unpleasant is more accurate. It took me about 2 days to beat it too, is the ending ever explained in the sequel
like how she ends up back at the asylum?

She doesn't end up back in the asylum. The new game starts with her living in a boarding house and periodically seeing a psychologist to help her get through her lingering issues.
 

Ledsen

Member
canadian crowe said:
I'm not sure how far you are, but the game gets near unplayable about half way through. Too many enemies at once, and glitchy jumps that cause instant deaths.

I beat it a few years ago and I don't remember any horrible problems. Loved the game though.
 
Anticitizen One said:
She doesn't end up back in the asylum. The new game starts with her living in a boarding house and periodically seeing a psychologist to help her get through her lingering issues.
Thanks. That's a pretty mature and realistic way to explain that.
 
About how many hours in does this mid-game turn for the unplayable/unpleasant happen? I'm about 1-2 or so hours into the game.

Also, I am playing on PC.
 
D

Deleted member 30609

Unconfirmed Member
EchosMyron1 said:
About how many hours in does this mid-game turn for the unplayable/unpleasant happen? I'm about 1-2 or so hours into the game.

Also, I am playing on PC.
It doesn't?
 

burgerdog

Member
D2M15 said:
Probably never, then, since the jumping puzzles - however frustrating - were built for mouse-and-keyboard.
I'm playing on pc with a controller. Can't wait to come back to this post and say how easy it was even with a controller.
 
If it doesn't then that's good to hear, cause I've been liking it so far. I'm in the process of seeing for myself, just wanted to know around when shit is supposed to go down. If it does in fact go down.
 
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