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Aliens and UFOs
- Thread starter Grand Theft Scratchy
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Romulus
Member
I think NVG helps the fireflies look even faster because you can't see them then suddenly a flash appears. It's like trying to determine which one is which. I've seen them all my life and they just sort of float around slowly and flash. But I understand, its similar in ways.
Romulus
Member
Former director of French intelligence on the UAP phenomenon:
www.parismatch.com
Alain Juillet : "Le phénomène ovni échappe à la dimension terrestre"
Dans "Ovnis: une affaire d'Etats", Dominique Filhol aborde les objets volants non identifiés non comme un folklore mais comme un sujet aussi sérieux que les scientifiques, politiques et experts qui se succèdent dans ce documentaire. Parmi eux, l’ancien directeur des renseignements à la DGSE...
www.parismatch.com
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Banned
This line of reasoning needs to die in a fire. because:
Short answer : 1500 people worked on the Manhattan project. Only a handful knew what it was. That's the friggin nuclear bomb!
Long answer: Churchill wanted the British Forces to have what he called "Land ships", which are called tanks today. They're called tanks, because to build the 'hull' of a tank, you need to do it in a big factory or dock yard. Churchill was concerned about the Nazi's finding out about this new technology, so he instructed all engineers/documents to refer to them as "Water-Tanks" (Which is where tank comes from according to Mark Forsyth's 'Etymologicon'). All parts were then labelled as, and shipped in crates/wagons, as 'Tanks'. Nobody knew about the Tank project until it was near completion, yet thousands of people worked on tanks.
It is entirely possible to hide anything you want from a nation. Even more so now, when it only takes an army of rainbow haired blue ticks on Twitter to flood the airways with so much dross, that you have no idea what is true, or not. 'A brave new world' is a more accurate description of today, vs '1984'.
INC
Member
That was over 4 years max, and back in the 30-40's, where people actually gave a fuck about keep national secrets. Hence "loose lips sink ships"
this has been over 60-70 years now, its a little different
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Banned
Advanced aircraft come out every few decades. The F117 stealth and Aurora spy plane were mistaken for UFO's all the time in 80's/90's. Like wise with drones in the 90's/2000's. None of those projects leaked.
And you're right, it is different, nobody gives a shit anymore. I could go on twitter and leak all the dirtiest secrets from the most powerful people and i would be laughed/banned off of twitter in no time. What I leak could be true, but nobody cares enough to listen.
I'll bet there are some websites that have the info of what these things are, it's just that there's so much shite, who knows what's true?
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StormCell
Member
Pretty damning stuff coming from former intelligence directors who are no longer under the umbrella of secrecy legally binding them or making them an official voice of their Intelligence agency. How long until the actual agencies or government entity begin talking about these UAP?Former director of French intelligence on the UAP phenomenon:
Alain Juillet : "Le phénomène ovni échappe à la dimension terrestre"
Dans "Ovnis: une affaire d'Etats", Dominique Filhol aborde les objets volants non identifiés non comme un folklore mais comme un sujet aussi sérieux que les scientifiques, politiques et experts qui se succèdent dans ce documentaire. Parmi eux, l’ancien directeur des renseignements à la DGSE...
INC
Member
Advanced aircraft come out every few decades. The F117 stealth and Aurora spy plane were mistaken for UFO's all the time in 80's/90's. Like wise with drones in the 90's/2000's. None of those projects leaked.
And you're right, it is different, nobody gives a shit anymore. I could go on twitter and leak all the dirtiest secrets from the most powerful people and i would be laughed/banned off of twitter in no time. What I leak could be true, but nobody cares enough to listen.
I'll bet there are some websites that have the info of what these things are, it's just that there's so much shite, who knows what's true?
Aurora is sill top secret, and still a myth tbh
Plus both of those of traditional aircraft
SR71 is the best top secret aircraft ever made, that thing still blows my mind, even today
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Banned
B2 is still top secret, Aurora exists, but isn't a conventional plane
They are today. The F117's skin is anything but traditional.
It is a damned fine looking piece of kit. I wonder what NASA do with them? (I googled them to remind myself what they looked like). Though Google says it's the fastest plane ever, it's not quite true. The Lightning Mk2 is the fastest ascending aircraft ever made. 1 mile in altitude in under 60 seconds. It's basically a rocket engine with wings. British design as well
INC
Member
B2 is still top secret, Aurora exists, but isn't a conventional plane
They are today. The F117's skin is anything but traditional.
It is a damned fine looking piece of kit. I wonder what NASA do with them? (I googled them to remind myself what they looked like). Though Google says it's the fastest plane ever, it's not quite true. The Lightning Mk2 is the fastest ascending aircraft ever made. 1 mile in altitude in under 60 seconds. It's basically a rocket engine with wings. British design as well
Theyre still basd on traditional propulsion those, aurora is supposedly a pulse jet engine, these aren't new concepts, and far from what is being filmed, like comparing sun dial to a smart watch
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Banned
Ah fair enough.
I just googled pulse-jet engine because i was confused for a second. Pulse jets came before the 'fast' jet engine we know today. I got on to a wikipedia page and...wow, what a rabbit hole.
Aircraft designs 'cancelled' (yeah right) in the late 60's that could travel Mach 20 at 14,000 mph. Sound familiar?
DARPA Falcon Project - Wikipedia
Project Isinglass - Wikipedia
Lockheed D-21 - Wikipedia
Some really cool stuff in there. I doubt most of these 'cancelled' projects were cancelled completely. Maybe shelved until the tech was improved. I would go as far as guessing that some old cancelled projects from the 70's, were taken up again but swapped to UAV/UCAVs design instead.
INC
Member
This is another reason why I think if there is this tech, and has been kept secret, for reasons other than air superiority
If a government has kept the tech from the rest of the planet, imagine the backlash on that country.
60+ years of being held back...........that would put that government/country in the history books for holding back humanity.
And if the Canon is true and its mainly US, well............
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A.Romero
Member
Yes, I'm not American but I would feel cheated.
Romulus
Member
Not only where those just concepts but theres a reason why its hitting those projected speeds faster than the SR71 during the same timeframe. Those are space shuttle speeds, because they were space planes concepts, that's what they were called. Outside of earths atmosphere you can travel much faster.
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That's an interesting looking trail. Pulse seems to be the most reasonable answer
Don't mix up atmosphere with space though. There's a few layers to our 'atmosphere' :
The Stratosphere | UCAR Center for Science Education
That's why Pulse/RAM/SCRAM jet technology is required at higher altitude because there isn't enough 'air' to suck in to make the bang in the engine
True dat. Less air resistance = quicker speed.
Don't mix up atmosphere with space though. There's a few layers to our 'atmosphere' :
The Stratosphere | UCAR Center for Science Education
That's why Pulse/RAM/SCRAM jet technology is required at higher altitude because there isn't enough 'air' to suck in to make the bang in the engine
Romulus
Member
Right, just going off what they called their vehicle, spaceplane. I would assume to concept was to go as high as possible considering it was being launched from another plane.
INC
Member
INC
Member
Mental, have nothing, apart from lens flare, but that doesn't account for the motion blur as it moves away
The path is also crazy
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Banned
I wasn't being a dick. I do like this kind of stuff so i do get a bit in to it with sharing basic info, you know?
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Banned
If not flecks of metallic material, i would say super-high altitude aircraft SCRAM/RAM technology and the dip/turn is a trick of the camera/eye because of the banking at that altitude.
INC
Member
If we have the frame rate, surely an estimate to speed could be made, compare those speeds to know craft, and there u go. Wouldnt be precise, but could be a way to determine and rule out certain things
Alright
Banned
I'll bet pounds to pennies that if it is a craft, it 'doesn't exist'
INC
Member
Yes but currently the fastest craft known is mach 7, and thats in a straight line, that object isn't going straight, but as u said could be optical illusion.
So if that video shows an object going above that speed, which at a guess, id say it is, and by a big margin, Hard to tell, and it doesn't look like its its in the upper atmosphere to me
Remember the fastest piloted aircraft was mach 3.3 (SR71 in Upper atmosphere), that rocket is mach 7, Aurora is rumoured to be mach 6, For comparison
Romulus
Member
Yeah, that's just a different level of anything I can even fathom if it's a craft. Looks lower attitude on a second look(sub 20k), and the shape seems round or oval, which makes less aerodynamic sense.
I remember LT. Favor US Navy saying these craft could take off so fast you could barely see them getting smaller in the distance and just vanish. It was literally instant takeoff.
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I don't know for sure, but i would place a large bet on Mach 7 being broken by a decent margin. No way these craft are manned either, it's almost a complete waste of time to have manned aircraft nowadays. 80% of the weight of a traditional jet is life saving systems designed to keep the pilot alive and double/triple redundancies on those systems.
I don't know what mach a human can take, i know 9.5G is the ceiling for G, with the materials withstanding 35G+ but if thats a UAV, it would light, manoeuvrable and be able to pull serious G + speed. Though I'm not sure what the ceiling is for Mach on aircraft design.
If you took 'the ghost of Afghanistan' and slapped in some of that engine tech from the 60's, then yeah i could see an aircraft manoeuvring like that.
INC
Member
We've peak with conventional manned flight, unless they've found a better counter for G (we're already squeezing all the blood to our heads with g suits), or say the craft isn't maneuvering and using traditional flight methods
So yeh drones is the only way, and from a cost PoV unmanned makes the most sense, and flight time too, a bot doesn't need to sleep
As for material strength, nano tubes are meant to be the next big thing, so I dont really see that as a bug factor anymore
Still a jet will still produce sound, these are silent, so the jet theory is iffy, in a lot of these cases, if they're legit videos, that is
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Romulus
Member
The problem is throwing technology in from the 1960s if you get massive signs of propulsion. Exhaust plums, tail. Theses things look nearly invisible without highspeed cameras and even when you see them it's like its blinking forward, side to side. The other thing is that is definitely in atmosphere, so another colossal leap forward somehow.
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Banned
Not only do bots not need to sleep, you no longer need to train pilots. Pilots are trained to react in the moment to protect them/others then the craft. Especially over enemy territory. (There was an aircraft that went down in the middle-east that needed to be blown to smithereens by an elite squad of troops)
Without needing to train the pilot, you can get any old Fortnite player (at a fraction of the cost) to fly the drone, as most are flown with Xbox controllers from Vegas. They take of in the Ghan by local air traffic, then they remote play over to vegas. It's pretty nuts. A lot of military pilots are going civvy, more so than ever, because as they close a flying sqn down, it's replaced with a drone sqn (true story!)
The last time i saw a 'new' drone was 10 years ago and that shit was straight out of the X-files, seriously amazing little piece of kit. Christ knows what they have now in active service, let alone what they're experimenting with.
I believe almost all of the videos we see are advance drone craft.
Dirty fuel combined with the amount of Litres of fuel needed to propel it. A rough guide for one fighter jet was "at max throttle, 60kg of fuel a minute"
If we take a rough estimate of saving 70% of fuel in a drone vs standard aircraft, it's basically running on nothing at all, which would explain the lack of plumes and tail. Add to that it need less oxygen to power it, because it needs less power, and drones flying in the stratosphere wouldn't be a million miles off. Chuck in some SCRAM tech and Houston, we have UFO's
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INC
Member
Then the question remains, what exactly is the 'advanced' part
Because they're nothing like craft, even top gun pilots understand or recognise, that raises some eye brows no?
Romulus
Member
To achieve higher Mach speeds, anything takes a great amount of force. Take a look at a hypersonic missile, which has only one goal to track and extreme speed, no pilot or anything, yet still creates huge plums.
If you can travel that fast, you literally don't even need explosives or warheads, just literally fly into whatever your target is and physics will take care of the rest. So if that tech exists, there would be zero need for this race to create hypersonic missiles outside of large warhead delivery, which is far less common now.
I mean show me a single aircraft doing mach 4+ in the atmosphere without a massive thruster. And that's considering these objects look like they're moving far faster.
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Banned
Who knows? It could be something obscure like in one aircraft all of the many, many different 'computers' (which usually have their own unique role like a pc - CPU, GPU etc) could all become any computer it wanted. For example, if the Flight Computer went down, the (i'm making this next one up) Radar data processing unit, can become a flight computer. Bit hard to explain without going in to detail which i would rather avoid.
B2 has a top secret aircraft skin because it has a current flowing over it. Nobody knows why, or what it does. But i suppose that could be classed as advanced.
I'm going to have to pull the trustmebro card and say there's as much chance as this tech being new to them as it is to us. The first time i saw a drone up close (i could touch it) there were pilots with us who were just as amazed as we were at this new tech.
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Banned
Fair point
A jet costs £30 million~ for an old one. A drone about £10 million. A cruise missile costs £1 million. You wouldn't fly a craft in to a building on enemy soil, ever, ever. Let alone one that has any level of clearance.
I can't. Traditional aircraft aren't made anymore. The Typhoon and MIG-29 are just Ariel display vehicles and the JSF/F-22 Raptor was/is a vanity project for the Yanks to scam the Brits out of a load of money.
I'll put large amounts of money that every Weapons platform built today is a UCAV. I mean, hell, fighter planes were defunct after the Second World War. The only western conflict involving ariel combat was Desert Storm 1, and even then it was more a show of force.
Airola
Member
One reason could be that they don't want any other nation to know it's even possible to make the things they've made. It's a bit like nuclear weapons. It pretty much would've been best if only one nation ever knew how to make them or knew it's even possible to make them. Because once something is shown to be possible to do, others will immediately start working on figuring out how to do the same thing for themselves.
I bet Russia would never want USA to know they have the capability of making gravity defying ultra fast aircraft, and vice versa. Advantage is advantage as long as you are the only one who knows it's possible. Not only there is the advantage to look for but some things might be really dangerous in wrong hands too. Also, once the others know some seemingly impossible thing has been made, they will not only start to work on it themselves but they also start to fund espionage to try to get any information about that thing from the country.
What if they've calculated that even though this technology would be tremendously good for people, the technology can be used for devastating things in wrong hands.
INC
Member
So for 60-70 years, they've not used the tech?
Both Russian and American generals have confirmed these craft scan nuclear bunkers, so thats just the Russians scanning the yanks, and yanks scanning the commies, both unaware that each has the tech.....? Even tho they have the tech.....?
Or they're both playing along, so the rest of the world doesn't know they both have the same tech......?
I mean sure, I guess
Airola
Member
Well, if the idea is to keep them in secret then even if they have used it no-one would necessarily know about it.
INC
Member
So they both don't know that eachother has the tech? Because they're both saying the same thing,they have no idea what it is, not once have I heard either side say, its us tech or Russian tech, not once, even conspiracy nutters, pick hitler over Russia lol
StormCell
Member
With the stuff we're seeing in videos and from air force and navy, if the US had that tech they would have already steamrolled China into full submission. There's no way we would sit on this tech. Instead, we're sitting here counting the number of vulnerabilities we have and speculating it would be a stalemate with China prevailing in the western pacific. If the US has the stuff we're seeing, China would be lucky to keep its mainland we would be zipping overhead so fast picking apart all of their defenses, missile silos, etc.
Airola
Member
Why only USA and Russia?
It could be some other country too.
And it could be both USA and Russia and them trying to keep things unknown from some other countries.
Or it could be that they all know about it but don't want the general people to know about it. If so, the reasons could be malevolent or benevolent. Who knows if that technology is actually something the general population could make and use if they would get to know more about it. If they are malevolent, they might hide it from us because they couldn't use us for money making anymore. Or if they are benevolent, maybe they know it would be really dangerous if ordinary people could get their hands on that technology.
There are many plausible explanations for all of that before we should entertain the thought of it being extraterrestrial technology.
INC
Member
So all or most governments have known now for 60-70yrs, but not informed the general population and their own military, since they have no fucking idea what theyre tracking. Or US and Russia are in it together to keep their secrets from other countries
For logic, it sure sounds like a conspiracy theory
Romulus
Member
The most compelling argument against advanced tech is WW2 and flight observations of extremely similar occurrences even before the 1900s. They seem to have similar shape and behavior. Fighter pilots from all sides of the second world war reported these objects observing them. So why was the war such a long struggle if some nation had an abundance of incredible tech?
Airola
Member
I'm not saying what you wrote above would be the only possible scenario.
I'm just saying something like that would be highly more likely than spacecraft from outer space.
In any case, someone is hiding something. If that technology really comes from outer space aliens, someone has been actively conspiring in hiding that from the public. If that seems possible to you, why wouldn't it seem possible that they could just as equally conspire in hiding their own hyper advanced technology from the public? It just seems odd to me to claim the are lying and hiding things when it's about hiding alien stuff, but take them at face value when they start telling "oh yeah, that's totally some alien stuff."
To me, stuff like, say, Roswell incident would more likely be about:
1) The US officials encountering something made by some other country and because they don't know what the hell that is, they want to keep the public not informed so that they wouldn't start to think some foreign country has some really fancy and potentially dangerous technology which the USA don't have.
2) The US officials are hiding from everyone that they have some fancy and potentially dangerous stuff in their own hands made by themselves.
Or something else going along those lines.
As I've said before, I would even think that instead of outer space alien origin it's more likely that humans were very advanced like tens of thousands of years ago until ~everything got destroyed, and this technology has ties to that history. Maybe that civilization is still living somewhere under the oceans. I don't say that's a likely scenario at all, but I would say it's more likely than another living organism evolving into something that has the means and the skills and the will to build a spacecraft and to go outside of their planet. Even in this planet we are the only living creatures who have come to think of that. There are millions of different species on this planet and we are the only ones who have thought about it at all. So to assume that this would not only happen in somewhere extremely far away and they would find their way here and happen to live that moment of their history in the same moment of our history, I think that's way down in what really is likely what comes to that supposed technology. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying that we should be more aware of our own governments and what they are wanting/making us believe. They can do whatever they can if they can get us all believe the weird shit we might see comes from somewhere else.
EDIT:
I have to clarify though that I like the theories of the UFO stuff coming from other dimensions and being some energy based mind things. So I kinda think if I really want to entertain the thought of aliens being real, I think that angle would be more likely than them being the product of purely biological evolution like creatures on this planet and that evolving into something that has found us. I think it's more likely because we have weird experiences with our dreams and out of body experiences and whatever else, so there might be something in connection to that with aliens.
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StormCell
Member
I think that you and I are thinking something pretty close with regard to the crafts and their occupants. Wherever they may have originated, what makes sense in this solar system is that the Earth is the most hospitable and habitable world. Humans occupy the surface, which is practically the smallest chunk of what's inhabitable. ~70% of Earth's surface is water, which means humans occupy much less than 30% of its surface. It could be that there are some very remote pockets at the bottom of the ocean that contain colonies or bases where these craft dock and take off from. Perhaps there may even be cities of some sort down below. I'm much more hesitant with this theory because humans are pretty damn nosy when it pertains to exploring the ocean depths. Far more likely, in my mind, are the presence of outposts and colonies in the Earth's interior, where humans are much less likely to explore due to costs and dangers. Whatever would dwell down there may find that to be a far more hospitable place, one rife with geothermal energy and resources. It could be like a whole dwarven race living down there for hundreds of thousands of years having been driven from the surface in a cataclysmic disaster, or perhaps their arrival found the native creatures much too dangerous to dwell alongside, so they booked it into the caves immediately...
Would love to have a better idea of how they got here, but that there appears to be so many and for so long lends to the idea that they have at least one base operating somewhere nearby, presumably on Earth.
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ThatStupidLion
Member
take it with a grain of salt but it must have been a slow news day... saw on the media box this morning that the pentagon announced its going to be more dedicated to looking into ufos. Apparently the vudeos they have released publicly are the least convincing material they have and supposedly they have a video that is within 50 feet of a UFO “cockpit”
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