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[Romulus]

 

[Romulus]

 

[ThatStupidLion]

well that radar video made the rounds this morning in the news outlets.....

its HILARIOUS and a bit unnerving to see how the media handles it. its not exactly a partisan issue and it just rubs me the wrong way hearing them make demands for answers from the gov't and come off so entitled about it all.

 

[StormCell]

well that radar video made the rounds this morning in the news outlets.....

its HILARIOUS and a bit unnerving to see how the media handles it. its not exactly a partisan issue and it just rubs me the wrong way hearing them make demands for answers from the gov't and come off so entitled about it all.

I think it really depends on how you view government. America was founded with a belief that government's sole purpose is to serve its people and not the other way around. There's absolutely a fine line between defending this country from threats abroad and keeping its citizens in the dark for decades on a subject everyone is pretty sure they already know the answer to. That is to say that I think it would do far less harm to simply admit that there are unidentified objects flying in our airspace that so far eludes our capabilities to track and identify them.

This is the United States of America. If US Joe builds a surveillance drone that manages to track one of these UAP and basically identify its origin, Joe shouldn't fear for his life because Uncle Sam and GI Joe are on their way to his doorstep with guns. This is how this topic really feels. Sam and Joe need to quit acting in a silo in complete secrecy on the subject, because I'm pretty sure that if we put the topic out in the open the rest of America will come up with a solution to solve the problem. Between Facebook, Amazon, and Tesla, not to mention the entire defense industry, that's a lot of cameras and soon to be drones that will be capable of logging UAP activities.

 

[Shodan09]

Every time I check this thread it's another one up the ass for Mick West. Truly marvelous.

 

[INC]

Every time I check this thread it's another one up the ass for Mick West. Truly marvelous.

I still find his stuff valid regardless, because everything should looked at from another angle

And how I should look at these videos too, instead if getting swept up in the hype, like I normally do

 

[Shodan09]

I still find his stuff valid regardless, because everything should looked at from another angle

And how I should look at these videos too, instead if getting swept up in the hype, like I normally do

It should be. But he has his ideas before he's even seen anything then tries to make the evidence fit with that.

 

[INC]

It should be. But he has his ideas before he's even seen anything then tries to make the evidence fit with that.

Most full time skeptics do, I mean that's their job lol

But I'm guilty of being the opposite too, I wanna believe its all real out the gate

Balance is key, hence why I try and watch more skeptics videos, to get a better understanding on how to view certain things

Doesn't mean I have to agree

 

[INC]

Pinch of salt as always, regardless what the nazi DID actually build was amazing

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Can't see what anyone who wants to believe would worry about skeptics. If you show a video where a professional skeptic goes "i just dont know" then that only helps. From what iv'e seen so far over on the Mick West forums is people doing due diligence and breaking the videos down. i dont see anyone really doing that here, most people seem to be taking the videos at face value.

Most of whats in the Mick West stuff hasnt been "this is def not unknown craft", its been "these videos dont show anything unnatural so its more the word of eye witnesses at this point" and that is correct. Not a single video shows anything that couldnt be done, without corbells narrative, none of these videos show anything a drone couldnt do. Even the the radar video SO FAR hasnt been disseminated to show anything wild YET.

Yet there is a place where in the span of a day, people have found the manual for the actual radar unit, have done audio and visual cleanup, have found out lots of information about the other craft in the area using nav track services, found out about location and relative distance and what the targets mean, what the radars capabilities are. What has been done here ....posted a few anonymous sources from reddit saying "yep these things are doing crazy stuff Mick West has been wrong" with no basis other then they looked at the video. Im not knocking anyone here, just saying if you believe these are wacky craft...then finding all the information about it should be helping you.

One of the takeaways..apparently they are circled with a yellow cross...which does signify "unknown"

 

[Romulus]

Can't see what anyone who wants to believe would worry about skeptics. If you show a video where a professional skeptic goes "i just dont know" then that only helps. From what iv'e seen so far over on the Mick West forums is people doing due diligence and breaking the videos down. i dont see anyone really doing that here, most people seem to be taking the videos at face value.

Most of whats in the Mick West stuff hasnt been "this is def not unknown craft", its been "these videos dont show anything unnatural so its more the word of eye witnesses at this point" and that is correct. Not a single video shows anything that couldnt be done, without corbells narrative, none of these videos show anything a drone couldnt do. Even the the radar video SO FAR hasnt been disseminated to show anything wild YET.

Yet there is a place where in the span of a day, people have found the manual for the actual radar unit, have done audio and visual cleanup, have found out lots of information about the other craft in the area using nav track services, found out about location and relative distance and what the targets mean, what the radars capabilities are. What has been done here ....posted a few anonymous sources from reddit saying "yep these things are doing crazy stuff Mick West has been wrong" with no basis other then they looked at the video. Im not knocking anyone here, just saying if you believe these are wacky craft...then finding all the information about it should be helping you.

One of the takeaways..apparently they are circled with a yellow cross...which does signify "unknown"

The thing is you don't even need to go in-depth to refute Mick West at this point. You're talking about my post, which was the only one that mentioned a reddit post, so it's not like this forum is even attempting this effort to post what it is. It was just me. Most people have jobs and don't have a resident expert or time cruncher to set out to do this sort of research. But, someone will.
We're all waiting as you said, people are still going through the paces to figure this out. I wasn't going on about this being confirmed in any way or Mick West is wrong about everything. I was specifically referencing Mick saying it was a balloon(I mentioned that), which it clearly is not. Even the reddit claim is an early theory and obviously not gospel or hard evidence. Could be months before a real in-depth answer comes, but it's certainly not a balloon or IR glare as Mick said was most likely. Mick is correct in that it's not doing anything a drone could not do, but we still have limited info.

The thing about Mick in many of his videos is he tries to dig at people constantly and he doesn't take criticism well. He did a breakdown of Fravor and basically wasn't even listening to what he said, literally just trying to cut off important info to make his claims sound more plausible. Who does that sound like? Unobjective UFO believers. The reality is he's just on the opposite side of the spectrum, hiding under the veil of 'skeptic' and 'science.' He truly wants these things to be explainable, could be a subconscious fear or something else.

 

[Xdrive05]

So this is as good a time and place to ask as any: What is the skeptical community's response to all of this?

I used to be hardcore on the scientific skeptic "side" of all supernatural, cryptozoological and UFO claims, finding the skeptical explanations and dismissals to be far more compelling than the speculations of proponents. I'm talking about folks like Joe Nickell, who I think has done some really excellent work, and in good faith, too. There was also the NESS (New England Skeptical Society) Steven Novella with his Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. I don't know who this Mick West character is, but I gather he's on the same "team".

Can anyone ELI5 / summarize what they are saying about all of this going "official" as it has?

 

[MMaRsu]

 

[Shadowplay1979]

The thing is you don't even need to go in-depth to refute Mick West at this point. You're talking about my post, which was the only one that mentioned a reddit post, so it's not like this forum is even attempting this effort to post what it is. It was just me. Most people have jobs and don't have a resident expert or time cruncher to set out to do this sort of research. But, someone will.
We're all waiting as you said, people are still going through the paces to figure this out. I wasn't going on about this being confirmed in any way or Mick West is wrong about everything. I was specifically referencing Mick saying it was a balloon(I mentioned that), which it clearly is not. Even the reddit claim is an early theory and obviously not gospel or hard evidence. Could be months before a real in-depth answer comes, but it's certainly not a balloon or IR glare as Mick said was most likely. Mick is correct in that it's not doing anything a drone could not do, but we still have limited info.

The thing about Mick in many of his videos is he tries to dig at people constantly and he doesn't take criticism well. He did a breakdown of Fravor and basically wasn't even listening to what he said, literally just trying to cut off important info to make his claims sound more plausible. Who does that sound like? Unobjective UFO believers. The reality is he's just on the opposite side of the spectrum, hiding under the veil of 'skeptic' and 'science.' He truly wants these things to be explainable, could be a subconscious fear or something else.

im not talking really about mick west the person, more the forums, lot of good info to glean from it. Im sure most of those people have jobs too but finding thgat info is a passion or hobby. TBH i wish people would pu those skills to use to find murderers or cancer cures.

 

[Airola]

He truly wants these things to be explainable, could be a subconscious fear or something else.

Honestly though, so do you. You just want them to be explainable by something else. And also with you it could be about a conscious or subconscious fear of the possibility of us really being alone in the universe.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[QSD]

Honestly though, so do you. You just want them to be explainable by something else. And also with you it could be about a conscious or subconscious fear of the possibility of us really being alone in the universe.

Fear of the unknown (the true meaning of the word 'Xenophobia') is probably close to the #1 motive through all of human history. Fear of being alone in the universe doesn't quite register on the same scale.

 

[MastaKiiLA]

So this is as good a time and place to ask as any: What is the skeptical community's response to all of this?

I used to be hardcore on the scientific skeptic "side" of all supernatural, cryptozoological and UFO claims, finding the skeptical explanations and dismissals to be far more compelling than the speculations of proponents. I'm talking about folks like Joe Nickell, who I think has done some really excellent work, and in good faith, too. There was also the NESS (New England Skeptical Society) Steven Novella with his Skeptics Guide to the Universe podcast. I don't know who this Mick West character is, but I gather he's on the same "team".

Can anyone ELI5 / summarize what they are saying about all of this going "official" as it has?

It's just more of the same. Grainy footage, unreliable witnesses, and profiteers willing to cash in on the thirst.

As I said earlier in the thread, any cases with enough information/evidence, end up getting debunked. The ones the survive have just enough evidence to spur on interest of the gullible, but not enough evidence to allow proper analysis. That's like Grifting 101. Be just believable enough to execute the scam, but don't give so much away that you expose yourself to discerning eyes.

I take more interest in real science. There's lot of legitimately cool shit being discovered about space and Earth each day, that I don't waste my time on UFO stuff. The day that there's irrefutable evidence, it'll be all over the news. Everyone wishes aliens were real. Many of us just won't cling to long shot odds.

 

[Nester99]

I would be super curious on how “people”not from earth would measure time. Do they use similar celestial motions of moons and rotations and solar orbits like we do? What if they have had millennium on multiple planets or an empire with multiple differing celestial objects to move, do they have a standard?

What would be “ Greenwich mean time” be for a galactic empire?, how do you measure “years” when considering light speed and travel over emence distance?

Fascinating.

 

[IDKFA]

I would be super curious on how “people”not from earth would measure time. Do they use similar celestial motions of moons and rotations and solar orbits like we do? What if they have had millennium on multiple planets or an empire with multiple differing celestial objects to move, do they have a standard?

What would be “ Greenwich mean time” be for a galactic empire?, how do you measure “years” when considering light speed and travel over emence distance?

Fascinating.

Maybe they're time perception is totally different to ours. That would actually make a lot of sense.

Humans see time like an arrow. We experience time in the present (sat on the arrow), can look behind us in the past and have a vague idea of our future, but won't know for sure until we get there. However, that's just us.

Not all species of animals on earth have the same perception of time. Generally, the smaller the animal, the faster its metabolic rate and therefore the 'slower' time passes for this being. It's why you hear people say that flies experience time in 'slow motion'

Maybe an alien species has a totally different time perception than us. They could for example experience the past, present and future all at once. This has been done multiple times in fiction. The film Arrival is a good example of an alien species having a completely different perception of time than humans. It's also one of the best sci-fi films ever made.

 

[InverseAgonist]

Maybe they're time perception is totally different to ours. That would actually make a lot of sense.

Humans see time like an arrow. We experience time in the present (sat on the arrow), can look behind us in the past and have a vague idea of our future, but won't know for sure until we get there. However, that's just us.

Not all species of animals on earth have the same perception of time. Generally, the smaller the animal, the faster its metabolic rate and therefore the 'slower' time passes for this being. It's why you hear people say that flies experience time in 'slow motion'

Maybe an alien species has a totally different time perception than us. They could for example experience the past, present and future all at once. This has been done multiple times in fiction. The film Arrival is a good example of an alien species having a completely different perception of time than humans. It's also one of the best sci-fi films ever made.

Correction: Thermodynamics sees time like an arrow. Life is just an application of these rules which really can't be bent. There are entropic and thermodynamic costs to memory and computation, even at the physical limits (see Landauer's principle). Sorry to be the bearer of bad news on a Friday, but enjoy your holiday!

Arrival was a great movie, but I wouldn't be taking it too seriously.

 

[Airola]

Fear of the unknown (the true meaning of the word 'Xenophobia') is probably close to the #1 motive through all of human history. Fear of being alone in the universe doesn't quite register on the same scale.

I think you underestimate what existential crisis can be and do to people. Very often existential crisis is not about what more there is to life, but about what there isn't.

 

[Romulus]

Honestly though, so do you. You just want them to be explainable by something else. And also with you it could be about a conscious or subconscious fear of the possibility of us really being alone in the universe.

Ad hominem. Not what I have to do with Mick West or anyone else in the discussion. But I have absolutely zero fear about either possibility actually. Everyone talking about this will probably die not knowing 100% either way. You have no idea what you're saying, it'll take 50+ years before there is "confirmation" either way. Decades of pushing back the "truth" either way until it's sorted out. That's my actual belief, and that's the closest thing to a "fear" I can come to.

 

[Airola]

Maybe they're time perception is totally different to ours. That would actually make a lot of sense.

Humans see time like an arrow. We experience time in the present (sat on the arrow), can look behind us in the past and have a vague idea of our future, but won't know for sure until we get there. However, that's just us.

Not all species of animals on earth have the same perception of time. Generally, the smaller the animal, the faster its metabolic rate and therefore the 'slower' time passes for this being. It's why you hear people say that flies experience time in 'slow motion'

Maybe an alien species has a totally different time perception than us. They could for example experience the past, present and future all at once. This has been done multiple times in fiction. The film Arrival is a good example of an alien species having a completely different perception of time than humans. It's also one of the best sci-fi films ever made.

Could also be that they don't even have a concept of time.

Could also be that they don't even think conceptually anything. Maybe they do things purely by instinct.

Or who knows, maybe they perceive the universe truly as combination of atoms and don't have concepts for any specific combinations of atoms but they just see how different atoms react with each other. I mean like, they wouldn't create a brick, but they would create a set of atoms. Kinda like seeing only zeros and ones instead of an idea of a full computer program.

I would assume that if they are purely biological beings born from nothing like us, it would be very unlikely that in some distant planet they would end up having same type of thinking as we have. So I would assume everything about them will be extremely different from what we think and do. And that's why I usually tend to not believe UFO stories where they are described having same type of interest in things we have (for example abduction stories where they study us or take biopsies or in general do things our own doctors and scientists would do).

That's why at least for me it's easier to believe they would be spirit/energy based "dimension-traveling" beings because that would immediately allow all kinds of properties for them.

 

[Airola]

Ad hominem. Not what I have to do with Mick West or anyone else in the discussion. But I have absolutely zero fear about either possibility actually. Everyone talking about this will probably die not knowing 100% either way. You have no idea what you're saying, it'll take 50+ years before there is "confirmation" either way. Decades of pushing back the "truth" either way until it's sorted out. That's my actual belief, and that's the closest thing to a "fear" I can come to.

Hey what's with the "ad hominem" claim? I'm not trying to attack you here.

Just saying that we're all the same. If Mick West could be motivated by fear, who's to say you couldn't be either? Both are looking for explanations. Both have their own wishes and their own reasonings. Both think they are right in at least some conceptual sense. For both, if they are right, it means something. And for both, if they are wrong, it means something else. You suggest that part of why Mick wants to push his truth instead of your truth could be that he might subconsciously fear what it means if he is wrong. You don't know him so you can't know if that is the truth or not. All I'm saying that it could be the same for you. If you are wrong, it would mean a universe with no life anywhere, no succesful endeavors for searching alien life at anytime in future, just more and more empty lifeless space. So what if that is the truth? What if you would live the rest of your days with the thoughts of no alien life anywhere? Would you like that? Would it be troubling for you, for one reason or another? Sure, it's easy to say it doesn't matter because we probably don't know the truth about it in our lifetime, but we still have faith and beliefs about what could be the truth and that affects to the way we look at life, it affects our hobbies, it affects our interests, it affects our personal philosophies. So, what it would really mean to you if you were completely wrong about this subject? (I'm not looking for an answer to that

I mean, we all have all kinds of thought patterns that we go through, both consciously and subconsciously, in any subject and especially in a subject like this.

My exact point is that even if such fears were proven to be true in one's motives in looking for the truth in their own ways, it really can't be used against that person. Not against Mick, not against you. The truth doesn't depend upon what someone fears or doesn't fear. And the truth doesn't depend upon what anyone's first assumption about any subject is. The truth is the truth. Someone's first thought about a ufo is a balloon. Someone else thinks it must be something we haven't seen before. Both have their conscious and subconscious reasons to think that way. None of us is immune to subjective reasons to believe.

 

[Romulus]

Not a fan of the show, but if true this actually interesting.

 

[Romulus]

Hey what's with the "ad hominem" claim? I'm not trying to attack you here.

Just saying that we're all the same. If Mick West could be motivated by fear, who's to say you couldn't be either? Both are looking for explanations. Both have their own wishes and their own reasonings. Both think they are right in at least some conceptual sense. For both, if they are right, it means something. And for both, if they are wrong, it means something else. You suggest that part of why Mick wants to push his truth instead of your truth could be that he might subconsciously fear what it means if he is wrong. You don't know him so you can't know if that is the truth or not. All I'm saying that it could be the same for you. If you are wrong, it would mean a universe with no life anywhere, no succesful endeavors for searching alien life at anytime in future, just more and more empty lifeless space. So what if that is the truth? What if you would live the rest of your days with the thoughts of no alien life anywhere? Would you like that? Would it be troubling for you, for one reason or another? Sure, it's easy to say it doesn't matter because we probably don't know the truth about it in our lifetime, but we still have faith and beliefs about what could be the truth and that affects to the way we look at life, it affects our hobbies, it affects our interests, it affects our personal philosophies. So, what it would really mean to you if you were completely wrong about this subject? (I'm not looking for an answer to that

I mean, we all have all kinds of thought patterns that we go through, both consciously and subconsciously, in any subject and especially in a subject like this.

My exact point is that even if such fears were proven to be true in one's motives in looking for the truth in their own ways, it really can't be used against that person. Not against Mick, not against you. The truth doesn't depend upon what someone fears or doesn't fear. And the truth doesn't depend upon what anyone's first assumption about any subject is. The truth is the truth. Someone's first thought about a ufo is a balloon. Someone else thinks it must be something we haven't seen before. Both have their conscious and subconscious reasons to think that way. None of us is immune to subjective reasons to believe.

I see what you're saying, but I grew up thinking aliens were bullshit for the most part until about 15 years ago maybe. So, I wasn't living in fear until 15 years ago lol. I rarely even thought about it. And I'm not saying Mick definitely motivated by fear 100%. I just threw that out there as a maybe. I just noticed he seems insulted by the idea of anything outside of his understanding. The entire idea that we can explain everything with our limited understanding is downright arrogant. He never even mentions it could be something unexplainable unless he's being sarcastic or berating. That's a sign of very little objectivity and the need to understand everything with current knowledge. As clever as he can be, he's extremely ignorant.

 

[INC]

Could also be that they don't even have a concept of time.

Could also be that they don't even think conceptually anything. Maybe they do things purely by instinct.

Or who knows, maybe they perceive the universe truly as combination of atoms and don't have concepts for any specific combinations of atoms but they just see how different atoms react with each other. I mean like, they wouldn't create a brick, but they would create a set of atoms. Kinda like seeing only zeros and ones instead of an idea of a full computer program.

I would assume that if they are purely biological beings born from nothing like us, it would be very unlikely that in some distant planet they would end up having same type of thinking as we have. So I would assume everything about them will be extremely different from what we think and do. And that's why I usually tend to not believe UFO stories where they are described having same type of interest in things we have (for example abduction stories where they study us or take biopsies or in general do things our own doctors and scientists would do).

That's why at least for me it's easier to believe they would be spirit/energy based "dimension-traveling" beings because that would immediately allow all kinds of properties for them.

 

[DragoonKain]

You'd think if aliens were advanced enough to travel the universe, they'd have technology so advanced to where they could observe us from a long distance and not even need to enter our atmosphere, like microscopic or even invisible cameras that move on their own and do all the observing for them. Or even if the aliens themselves wanted to enter our atmosphere, they'd be able to do so totally invisible, undetectable by any kind of radar.

Honestly, I don't think our brains can even conceive what advanced tech would look like. 100 years ago for example we couldn't even conceive an iphone. And advanced alien species could be millions of years more advanced than us, not only 100.

Every time I see and hear about these UFOs and alien spacecrafts, they look so fucking unadvanced. Like total hunks of junk.

It's not that I think there are no aliens out there. I do actually. I just think if they're here and didn't want to be spotted they would be good enough to not be spotted by our vastly inferior species.

Yeah, the tic tac could move unlike anything we've built so far. If it is indeed a craft, that's impressive. Still infinitely less impressive than the tech needed to cross galaxies. If you can do that, that tic tac craft isn't gonna be the best they've got. It's going to be something that can do things we can't even imagine. Like defy what we know to be true about gravity and travel and movement and matter in itself.

 

[INC]

You'd think if aliens were advanced enough to travel the universe, they'd have technology so advanced to where they could observe us from a long distance and not even need to enter our atmosphere, like microscopic or even invisible cameras that move on their own and do all the observing for them. Or even if the aliens themselves wanted to enter our atmosphere, they'd be able to do so totally invisible, undetectable by any kind of radar.

Honestly, I don't think our brains can even conceive what advanced tech would look like. 100 years ago for example we couldn't even conceive an iphone. And advanced alien species could be millions of years more advanced than us, not only 100.

Every time I see and hear about these UFOs and alien spacecrafts, they look so fucking unadvanced. Like total hunks of junk.

It's not that I think there are no aliens out there. I do actually. I just think if they're here and didn't want to be spotted they would be good enough to not be spotted by our vastly inferior species.

Yeah, the tic tac could move unlike anything we've built so far. If it is indeed a craft, that's impressive. Still infinitely less impressive than the tech needed to cross galaxies. If you can do that, that tic tac craft isn't gonna be the best they've got. It's going to be something that can do things we can't even imagine. Like defy what we know to be true about gravity and travel and movement and matter in itself.

Perhaps theyre probes, just like we send out, taking samples, observing.......

 

[DragoonKain]

Perhaps theyre probes, just like we send out, taking samples, observing.......

Maybe, but even then, I think they'd be totally undetectable, maybe even to the point where even if you tried to touch it you couldn't physically interact with it. Probably could teleport in and out of existence and travel near, at, or beyond the speed of light.

It's clear if they were aliens they don't want to make contact, otherwise they would have. And they don't want to be detected because they always fly off before someone can get undeniable footage. So if they're that advanced, maybe the drones would be microscopic. The size of a subatomic particle. But then it could expand into something bigger, while being still undetectable or viewable to take samples, and using their tech to immediately teleport whatever samples or footage they've taken back to their species in an instant.

And if that sounds far-fetched, I think it's actually being modest tbh. Like, we're talking possibly millions of years of technological advancement ahead of us. Like, our brains can't even conceive what a species like that could be capable of. It's possible a species has found a way to totally transcend time and space.

Or maybe they're just glitches in our simulation.

 

[INC]

Maybe, but even then, I think they'd be totally undetectable, maybe even to the point where even if you tried to touch it you couldn't physically interact with it. Probably could teleport in and out of existence and travel near, at, or beyond the speed of light.

It's clear if they were aliens they don't want to make contact, otherwise they would have. And they don't want to be detected because they always fly off before someone can get undeniable footage. So if they're that advanced, maybe the drones would be microscopic. The size of a subatomic particle. But then it could expand into something bigger, while being still undetectable or viewable to take samples, and using their tech to immediately teleport whatever samples or footage they've taken back to their species in an instant.

And if that sounds far-fetched, I think it's actually being modest tbh. Like, we're talking possibly millions of years of technological advancement ahead of us. Like, our brains can't even conceive what a species like that could be capable of. It's possible a species has found a way to totally transcend time and space.

Or maybe they're just glitches in our simulation.

Well there's an account of people interacting with these craft, military personal



If you think the story holds weight of course

 

[DragoonKain]

Well there's an account of people interacting with these craft, military personal



If you think the story holds weight of course

Another possibility: it’s not aliens but ourselves from the future traveling back in time to our present.

 

[Airola]

I see what you're saying, but I grew up thinking aliens were bullshit for the most part until about 15 years ago maybe. So, I wasn't living in fear until 15 years ago lol. I rarely even thought about it. And I'm not saying Mick definitely motivated by fear 100%. I just threw that out there as a maybe. I just noticed he seems insulted by the idea of anything outside of his understanding. The entire idea that we can explain everything with our limited understanding is downright arrogant. He never even mentions it could be something unexplainable unless he's being sarcastic or berating. That's a sign of very little objectivity and the need to understand everything with current knowledge. As clever as he can be, he's extremely ignorant.

We are possibly quite the opposite as I grew up thinking aliens were real until somewhere around the early and mid 2000's I started to become less and less convinced of their existence - or at the very least of the idea of them being purely biological beings (meaning biological aliens flying in a built-up spacecraft from one planet to another).

I'm still very open to entertain different ideas, and especially the ideas about "dimension jumping" more energy based aliens fascinate me. And, as I've experienced sleep paralysis and out of body experience through that, I've been very interested in the theories of aliens being connected to whatever happens in sleep paralysis (I'm open to the idea of a hallucinatory explanation but even more I'm open to the idea that whatever beings people see during sleep paralysis are real and even could be real aliens).

What comes to existential crisis and the fear that might bring, it usually happens when people are older so it would be understandable if the thought of "no life anywhere else" didn't bring any type of fear back then. When I believed in aliens I didn't fear that idea then either, probably because I was much younger and didn't really think what it would really mean if aliens existed. I just thought the idea of aliens was cool and interesting. Today, I really still don't get myself fearful of the thought of maybe some "alien war" or anything like that. Even the thought of an alien abduction is something I quite can't still find much scary, especially if they usually let you go and not take you forever to some place billion lightyears away from here. It's like, yeah if they've been here for thousands of years, if not tens of thousands, why would they now start to pose more danger. I've they've been ok with us for that long, they probably are ok with us in future too. But what scares me is the thought I mentioned earlier about what it REALLY would mean if aliens existed and if they knew what we know times billion - I'm more horrified of some sudden revelation of them having some hyper-surveillance system and recordings of everything we have done. Granted, we'd all be in the same boat then and none of us would be safe from some ultimate embarrasment, but still it's quite a horrifying thought. And in general X-Files never scared me. It was Twin Peaks type of stuff that got me. Perhaps that's the reason I'd like aliens to be more energy based spirit beings instead of X-Files aliens and can't be bothered with believing in the "old school" aliens anymore. Maybe it's more exciting and thrilling for me. Maybe that's my ultimate subconscious reason, who knows.

Back to that quote of yours:
You mention arrogance and ignorance. You've said similar things before and I've said the same thing before. But it really REALLY doesn't matter if one is arrogant or even ignorant. The truth doesn't change based on what kind of thinking is arrogant, ignorant or selfish or whatever. We don't really even know how limited our understanding about things really is. We don't really know if whatever goes beyond our limits of understanding is something that can ever be used to go faster than light, or create wormholes, or go to different dimensions or bend space. It's possible that none of that is ever possible by anyone. For people like Mick it could very well be that they technically are open to all kinds of ideas but that they just have seen too many false pieces of ufo evidence, so they would first assume new evidence must be bogus too. They haven't seen evidence of something going beyond our understanding but instead a lot of the things that have been claimed to go beyond our understanding have been things that have had explanations we are able to understand. Maybe it is arrogance or ignorance. But that doesn't mean anything what comes to them being right or wrong.

I get what you mean though. As I believe soul is a real thing, I'm also kinda keen to think that it's arrogant or ignorant to think our limited understanding can explain consciousness and out of body experiences etc. But in the end it doesn't matter if they are arrogant or ignorant. If they are right they are right. And I really know what it is to have a "strangeheadache" appear to a discussion and arrogantly dismiss everything. Trust me, I know... (dude is just as sceptical towards the idea of soul as he is towards the idea of aliens). So I understand the possible frustration. But ultimately it's just a "so what" type of a thing. Their arrogance means nothing. They could be right, they could be wrong.

Oh well, I know what I am though. I'm damn obnoxious with these lengthy writings so I better stop now

 

[StormCell]

You'd think if aliens were advanced enough to travel the universe, they'd have technology so advanced to where they could observe us from a long distance and not even need to enter our atmosphere, like microscopic or even invisible cameras that move on their own and do all the observing for them. Or even if the aliens themselves wanted to enter our atmosphere, they'd be able to do so totally invisible, undetectable by any kind of radar.

Honestly, I don't think our brains can even conceive what advanced tech would look like. 100 years ago for example we couldn't even conceive an iphone. And advanced alien species could be millions of years more advanced than us, not only 100.

Every time I see and hear about these UFOs and alien spacecrafts, they look so fucking unadvanced. Like total hunks of junk.

It's not that I think there are no aliens out there. I do actually. I just think if they're here and didn't want to be spotted they would be good enough to not be spotted by our vastly inferior species.

Yeah, the tic tac could move unlike anything we've built so far. If it is indeed a craft, that's impressive. Still infinitely less impressive than the tech needed to cross galaxies. If you can do that, that tic tac craft isn't gonna be the best they've got. It's going to be something that can do things we can't even imagine. Like defy what we know to be true about gravity and travel and movement and matter in itself.

So the next logical conclusion is.... whomever is responsible for these craft isn't coming from across galaxies. The less impressive you think they look, the more likely they're coming from our solar system or possibly even the same planet as us (but not one of our known adversaries).

it's really not so far-fetched to think that they are right under our noses. Even if they're coming from another star system, it makes far more sense to believe they have a base or even colonies here. Heck, if we are to even believe the historical logs from famous astronomers, these beings were moving here en masse hundreds of years ago, but people just didn't notice because telescopes were incredibly rare. It's just one of the possibilities and not something you place a monetary bet on.

 

[Airola]

Another possibility: it’s not aliens but ourselves from the future traveling back in time to our present.

Or ourselves from the past traveling to future!

Things went terribly wrong tens of thousands, or even hunreds of thousands, if not MILLIONS of years ago and the only way to survive was to go as far to the future as possible. Maybe they knew the world would be either uninhabitable for them for the next 50,000 years but they knew how to either skip to the future or to use the "let's go so fast that everything around us moves along with great speed and we'll still be young when we stop" trick to do it. And so they did it. And they didn't drop in the same time but some dropped in 3000bc, some to 500ad, some to 1900ad, some to 2020, and some haven't yet appeared.

I'd watch that movie.

 

[Razorback]

What would the world have to look like if all these sightings weren't aliens?

Would there be no people claiming to have personal direct experience with such things?
Of the thousands of commercial and military pilots, each with thousands of hours of flight experience would there none of them making claims about hard-to-explain aerial phenomena?
Would advanced sensors like radar never show glitchy or faulty data?
Would we see a lot fewer videos of blurry dots in the distance or perhaps none at all?
Would the concept of UFOs even exist in such a world?

 

[mango drank]

You'd think if aliens were advanced enough to travel the universe, they'd have technology so advanced to where they could observe us from a long distance and not even need to enter our atmosphere, like microscopic or even invisible cameras that move on their own and do all the observing for them. Or even if the aliens themselves wanted to enter our atmosphere, they'd be able to do so totally invisible, undetectable by any kind of radar.

Honestly, I don't think our brains can even conceive what advanced tech would look like. 100 years ago for example we couldn't even conceive an iphone. And advanced alien species could be millions of years more advanced than us, not only 100.

Every time I see and hear about these UFOs and alien spacecrafts, they look so fucking unadvanced. Like total hunks of junk.

It's not that I think there are no aliens out there. I do actually. I just think if they're here and didn't want to be spotted they would be good enough to not be spotted by our vastly inferior species.

Yeah, the tic tac could move unlike anything we've built so far. If it is indeed a craft, that's impressive. Still infinitely less impressive than the tech needed to cross galaxies. If you can do that, that tic tac craft isn't gonna be the best they've got. It's going to be something that can do things we can't even imagine. Like defy what we know to be true about gravity and travel and movement and matter in itself.

Funnily enough, I made a similar argument in another UFO thread a year ago (quoted below). I've thought about it more since then. Just because the most advanced technology of a given civilization exists, doesn't mean all their technology is just as advanced. Look at us humans. How old is the concept of a wheelbarrow? A couple thousand years old? Sure, there have been advancements over the years, but it's still the same basic idea today. Aliens could have certain pieces of technology that have received only incremental updates over the millennia, which are vastly less advanced than their most advanced tech, but they still use it anyway. They could have brought it in tow, in addition to their advanced tech. If the sightings here on Earth are of actual alien tech of some kind, those could be examples of old(er) tech that they choose to keep using.

Been thinking about this further. Any intelligent alien civilization that visits us would most likely be using faster-than-light travel of some sort to be able to make it to Earth in a reasonable amount of time, so that civilization would have to be far ahead of us technologically. And they'd actually have to travel much faster than light to make their trips convenient, so their technology would be preposterously more advanced than ours.

Meanwhile, the stuff in the footage being described with breathless wonder as being far beyond what we have today is, at most, I dunno, 200 years out--if that? "Oh boy, that blob sure is moving kinda fast, those aliens must be gods!"

Do you really think that an advanced alien civilization that visits Earth is, by some bizarre chance, only a few hundred years ahead of us technologically? Given the age of the universe, for any reasonably close alien species that's more advanced than we are, odds are it's going to be at least millions of years ahead of us technologically. I can't imagine human technology 1,000 years out--that's already god-like. But millions of years out? Forget about it. We're not even human anymore at that point. We're probably not even physical, or visible. I don't know what we are. We most likely don't have physical "ships," or "travel" in the sense we think of today, or do any of the things we do today that we naively try to extrapolate into the future.

With the above in mind, do you really think that 1) an alien civilization millions of years ahead of us technologically 2) would simply send a bunch of blobs doing vaguely impressive stuff, and 3) be dumb enough to let them be seen by our rudimentary million-year-old cameras? Sorry to say it, but that's a spectacular failure of the imagination, my friends.

 

[Relique]

Maybe, but even then, I think they'd be totally undetectable, maybe even to the point where even if you tried to touch it you couldn't physically interact with it. Probably could teleport in and out of existence and travel near, at, or beyond the speed of light.

It's clear if they were aliens they don't want to make contact, otherwise they would have. And they don't want to be detected because they always fly off before someone can get undeniable footage. So if they're that advanced, maybe the drones would be microscopic. The size of a subatomic particle. But then it could expand into something bigger, while being still undetectable or viewable to take samples, and using their tech to immediately teleport whatever samples or footage they've taken back to their species in an instant.

And if that sounds far-fetched, I think it's actually being modest tbh. Like, we're talking possibly millions of years of technological advancement ahead of us. Like, our brains can't even conceive what a species like that could be capable of. It's possible a species has found a way to totally transcend time and space.

Or maybe they're just glitches in our simulation.

Subatomic drones? Do you even think before you type this shit up? Your posts are full of false equivalences. Oh they can travel really fast that must mean they got cloaking and invisible propulsion figured out. Oh and they must have subatomic drones and can observe anything across space without having to be here. Hell they should be able take samples and then transfer them across light years of space without any physical presence. Maybe they can just will entire civilizations into existing or vanishing.. might as well be able to do that since they can move SOOO FAST.

Look at any serious research and theories on how UAP craft technology could potentially function, and you would get your explanation why there would be visible light. Just because we can't fully explain or replicate such a technology doesn't mean that a potential advanced alien civilization isn't bound by hard limits of what is possible.

 

[DragoonKain]

Subatomic drones? Do you even think before you type this shit up? Your posts are full of false equivalences. Oh they can travel really fast that must mean they got cloaking and invisible propulsion figured out. Oh and they must have subatomic drones and can observe anything across space without having to be here. Hell they should be able take samples and then transfer them across light years of space without any physical presence. Maybe they can just will entire civilizations into existing or vanishing.. might as well be able to do that since they can move SOOO FAST.

Look at any serious research and theories on how UAP craft technology could potentially function, and you would get your explanation why there would be visible light. Just because we can't fully explain or replicate such a technology doesn't mean that a potential advanced alien civilization isn't bound by hard limits of what is possible.

Don’t be a douchebag and get contentious. There’s no reason for it.

I didn’t say it was, I said it’s possible. We have no idea what potentially millions of years of advanced technology is capable of. It’s potentially limitless. The potential for anything we can imagine and even not able to imagine is there. Hell, these species may have access to different elements we don’t have here on earth which could open up different pathways in the technological spectrum than we have.

If they can travel at the speed of light, that’s an insane feat, it’s totally logical they’re capable of something I posted. Nanomachines are already a possibility. It stands to reason technology is just going to get smaller and smaller, I don’t see how that’s any less likely than reaching the speed of light travel. If you’re ruling out any possibility you’re being close minded.

 

[Relique]

Don’t be a douchebag and get contentious. There’s no reason for it.

I didn’t say it was, I said it’s possible. We have no idea what potentially millions of years of advanced technology is capable of. It’s potentially limitless. The potential for anything we can imagine and even not able to imagine is there. Hell, these species may have access to different elements we don’t have here on earth which could open up different pathways in the technological spectrum than we have.

If they can travel at the speed of light, that’s an insane feat, it’s totally logical they’re capable of something I posted. Nanomachines are already a possibility. It stands to reason technology is just going to get smaller and smaller, I don’t see how that’s any less likely than reaching the speed of light travel. If you’re ruling out any possibility you’re being close minded.

I'm not being close minded. I am just working with whatever evidence we do have. I don't fantasize about civilizations that have no limits to their technology, because that's when people interested in the subject start looking like loonies. You are saying if aliens are visiting earth they should be undetectable. That they wouldn't need to be physically here to observe or collect. Basically handwaving all the evidence that's been reported over the past 80 years. Why should we work under the assumption that a space faring civilization would just have everything figured out? Not all technology advancements move at an equal pace. Not everything is possible. There are current scientific theories that support faster than light travel, like worm holes, the albuquerque warp drive, etc. That does not mean that whoever cracks the technology to do so are basically gods and can do whatever the hell they want. There is absolutely nothing in our understanding of subatomic particles that would suggest you can make a "drone" out of them. So there is no point in just naming impossible sounding shit with zero evidence when discussing widely reported phenomena that is completely unrelated.

EDIT: I also want to add that i keep seeing "millions of light years ahead of us" thrown around a lot. We don't know that they are that much ahead of us just because they are capable of getting here. Hell, they might not even be that far in the first place. For all we know we ourselves might be 100 years away from getting close to the speed of light. Like you said an iphone was unfathomable a 100 years ago. What I do know is that being able to solve one problem doesn't mean we can solve any problem imaginable.

 

[DragoonKain]

I'm not being close minded. I am just working with whatever evidence we do have. I don't fantasize about civilizations that have no limits to their technology, because that's when people interested in the subject start looking like loonies. You are saying if aliens are visiting earth they should be undetectable. That they wouldn't need to be physically here to observe or collect. Basically handwaving all the evidence that's been reported over the past 80 years. Why should we work under the assumption that a space faring civilization would just have everything figured out? Not all technology advancements move at an equal pace. Not everything is possible. There are current scientific theories that support faster than light travel, like worm holes, the albuquerque warp drive, etc. That does not mean that whoever cracks the technology to do so are basically gods and can do whatever the hell they want. There is absolutely nothing in our understanding of subatomic particles that would suggest you can make a "drone" out of them. So there is no point in just naming impossible sounding shit with zero evidence when discussing widely reported phenomena that is completely unrelated.

EDIT: I also want to add that i keep seeing "millions of light years ahead of us" thrown around a lot. We don't know that they are that much ahead of us just because they are capable of getting here. Hell, they might not even be that far in the first place. For all we know we ourselves might be 100 years away from getting close to the speed of light. Like you said an iphone was unfathomable a 100 years ago. What I do know is that being able to solve one problem doesn't mean we can solve any problem imaginable.

Well, technology is incremental. Everything has to start somewhere. For example, I think it's highly unlikely another species out there discovered how to split the atom before they discovered how to make fire. There's certain objective assumptions one makes when discussing technological advancement. To travel across the universe, you're going to need close to speed of light travel, if not reaching it or somehow exceeding it(if even possible). We don't know if any of that is even possible. The only thing we know of that can exceed the speed of light is space itself, and space isn't even matter, and it's not technically "traveling" it's expanding.. So we don't know if matter can even do that. We don't know if anything that has mass can reach speed of light travel. So, I think reaching that goes with a reasonable assumption you'd have to be incredibly advanced if you reached that stage. Think of where on the Kardashev scale you'd have to be to achieve that and what else you'd be capable of if you were capable of that. Just like with my nuclear energy and fire example. It stands to reason if you achieve something in one area, it's likely you've achieved technological advancement in another. Especially since you may need the knowledge from one to reach the other.

And I said drones that are subatomic size, not made of subatomic particles, even though I guess technically all matter is made of those anyway.

Do I know we are 100 years away from speed of light travel? No. Do I think it's likely? Hell no. We might not even have humans outside of our own solar system in 100 years let alone reaching speed of light travel. Realistically, that's thousands of years if not millions away if it's even possible. But the point is, possibilities are endless out there, and I think you can draw some reasonable assumptions based on certain circumstances.

 

[Relique]

Well, technology is incremental. Everything has to start somewhere. For example, I think it's highly unlikely another species out there discovered how to split the atom before they discovered how to make fire. There's certain objective assumptions one makes when discussing technological advancement. To travel across the universe, you're going to need close to speed of light travel, if not reaching it or somehow exceeding it(if even possible). We don't know if any of that is even possible. The only thing we know of that can exceed the speed of light is space itself, and space isn't even matter, and it's not technically "traveling" it's expanding.. So we don't know if matter can even do that. We don't know if anything that has mass can reach speed of light travel. So, I think reaching that goes with a reasonable assumption you'd have to be incredibly advanced if you reached that stage. Think of where on the Kardashev scale you'd have to be to achieve that and what else you'd be capable of if you were capable of that. Just like with my nuclear energy and fire example. It stands to reason if you achieve something in one area, it's likely you've achieved technological advancement in another. Especially since you may need the knowledge from one to reach the other.

And I said drones that are subatomic size, not made of subatomic particles, even though I guess technically all matter is made of those anyway.

Do I know we are 100 years away from speed of light travel? No. Do I think it's likely? Hell no. We might not even have humans outside of our own solar system in 100 years let alone reaching speed of light travel. Realistically, that's thousands of years if not millions away if it's even possible. But the point is, possibilities are endless out there, and I think you can draw some reasonable assumptions based on certain circumstances.

I don't feel like you are making fair comparisons here. The difference of technological advancement and work required between starting a fire and splitting an atom is nowhere near the difference between the technologies required for space travel and subatomic sized drones. Yes, you would imagine that a civilization capable of space travel would have advancements in other fields, but that doesn't mean that they could just do whatever they want. I already said my piece about that and don't feel like I need to explain any further.

I feel like we don't give ourselves enough credit. I highly suggest looking into some of the work that has been done in the past 30 years with gravity shielding technologies. Some of the work started independently by scientists like Dr. Ning Li and Dr. Eugene Podkletnov before possibly moving into secret government programs. There have been multiple experiments that achieved up to 3% gravity cancelling effects via generation of gravitomagnetic fields in spinning superconductors. I won't go into the details or the limitations of this research. A lot of what is widely available to the public is pretty old. But scaling such a technology could potentially lead to our own tic-tac like craft zipping around without having to worry about inconveniences like mass or g-forces, at least in our own atmosphere. So no, I don't think we are thousands of years away from escaping our own solar system based on our own merits. Especially if the accounts of potential recovered technology and craft have any truth to them.

 

[mango drank]

The chances of nearby alien civilizations being only a few hundred / a few thousand years ahead of us (in terms of technological development) are vanishingly small. It's all about probabilities. Consider the age of the known universe: 13.8 billion years. Then consider the age of the Earth: 4.5 billion years. Homo sapiens dates back maybe 200k years. In terms of technology, aside from early fire and spears, most of our technological "development" started maybe 5k-10k years ago.

The Milky Way galaxy has maybe 5-10 billion habitable planets right now. Of those, how many might have developed life already? How many of those might have developed intelligent life? How many of those might have developed advanced technology (like us)? How many of those civilizations are still alive? If we want to be generous, we can guess something like 10k civilizations for that latter question. Given the billions of years of opportunity for evolution on these other planets, what are the odds that any of these advanced civilizations are at this moment only a few hundred / few thousand of years ahead of us technologically? Pretty low, given the massive cosmic timescales. It's much more likely the developmental differences between these civilizations, and us, is measured in millions of years or more.

If you include the entire universe outside our galaxy in your estimate of advanced civilizations, then yes, of course, there'd be civilizations that are closer to us technologically. But they'd be far, far away. They'd have to travel so insanely far to reach us, the chances they'd be able to do so with their less impressive level of technology are much lower. (Not impossible, just lower.)

 

[DragoonKain]

I don't feel like you are making fair comparisons here. The difference of technological advancement and work required between starting a fire and splitting an atom is nowhere near the difference between the technologies required for space travel and subatomic sized drones. Yes, you would imagine that a civilization capable of space travel would have advancements in other fields, but that doesn't mean that they could just do whatever they want. I already said my piece about that and don't feel like I need to explain any further.

I feel like we don't give ourselves enough credit. I highly suggest looking into some of the work that has been done in the past 30 years with gravity shielding technologies. Some of the work started independently by scientists like Dr. Ning Li and Dr. Eugene Podkletnov before possibly moving into secret government programs. There have been multiple experiments that achieved up to 3% gravity cancelling effects via generation of gravitomagnetic fields in spinning superconductors. I won't go into the details or the limitations of this research. A lot of what is widely available to the public is pretty old. But scaling such a technology could potentially lead to our own tic-tac like craft zipping around without having to worry about inconveniences like mass or g-forces, at least in our own atmosphere. So no, I don't think we are thousands of years away from escaping our own solar system based on our own merits. Especially if the accounts of potential recovered technology and craft have any truth to them.

I don't know what they could do, it's just spitballing and riffing on potential possibilities. And those are just from my(a human's) logic and understanding of the universe, which in context to advanced species is likely incredibly ignorant and minuscule. The subatomic sized drones was just an idea that popped into my head, it could be anything. I think it's more likely than not that an alien species that could reach us would be smart enough to not be seen if they didn't want to be. And there are other reasons I don't think any of the sightings were alien outside of technology. What were they? No idea. I think it's possible, because I believe there are species out there, but for a variety of reasons, I lean toward it being not.

 

[Shadowplay1979]

Not a fan of the show, but if true this actually interesting.

christ that show is so stupid

anyway its an excavator tooth thats been oxidized, many are made from the same aluminum compound and oxidize really fast.....so most likely hoax ..though to the workers credit it may have just come off and oxidized while other areas were being excavated...or was already heavily oxidized already when it came off.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Ancient Alien's entire shtick is to claim something has no explanation when it does. I would hope modern aliens/UFO conversations could move past that show lol

 

[Romulus]

christ that show is so stupid

anyway its an excavator tooth thats been oxidized, many are made from the same aluminum compound and oxidize really fast.....so most likely hoax ..though to the workers credit it may have just come off and oxidized while other areas were being excavated...or was already heavily oxidized already when it came off.

Looks pretty similar.

 

[Shodan09]

Most full time skeptics do, I mean that's their job lol

But I'm guilty of being the opposite too, I wanna believe its all real out the gate

Balance is key, hence why I try and watch more skeptics videos, to get a better understanding on how to view certain things

Doesn't mean I have to agree

Nah, a skeptic will look at the evidence then make a reasoned explanation. An idiot 'pre-debunks' and that's exactly what Mick West is.

 

[INC]

Ancient Alien's entire shtick is to claim something has no explanation when it does. I would hope modern aliens/UFO conversations could move past that show lol

Sounds just like every religion lol