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Amazon's 'The Man in the High Castle' S2 |OT| Alt-Right History

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Grizzlyjin

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
nOoblet16 said:
Why are people saying "You've fucked up if a Nazi is more interesting than XYZ characters"?

We are not just talking about a moustache twirling one dimensional character. Instead that Nazi happens to be one of the leads with pretty much the highest screen time or atleast the 2nd highest screen time out of any character, so naturally he gets a lot of character development. He also happens to be a Nazi who was originally not one and first and foremost an American, that gives him depth. And then not to mention the actor is fantastic. So there's no point feeling guilty for liking that character because of his association with the Nazi since at the core of it he is a well written and well acted multi dimensional character. If they didn't want the viewers to find him interesting they wouldn't have made him a lead in the first place.

Remember that Hans Landa was the best character in Inglourious Basterds and he was a Nazi.
Click to expand...

This is such a valid point. You don't have to feel bad if you find the Nazi characters interesting, that's the point. You can find their politics and actions reprehensible while still being able to relate to aspects of the character. Walter White is a shitty dude and people love him. Obergruppenführer Smith is easily the best character and actor on the show. I literally finished Season 1 this morning after falling asleep on the last episodes several times. But Smith's storyline was genuinely interesting. The revelation about his son, the dynamic with his wife, his uncovering the conspiracy to kill Hitler. He's got all the interesting storylines.

Juliana - Boring
Joe - Super boring
Frank - Uber boring
Inspector Kido - Good character
Antique Dude - umm cartoony but him bumping against this world's social norms and trying to break through is sorta what I watch this for, the differences in how culture has evolved.

I'm kinda reluctant to dive into Season 2 after slowly trying to refresh myself on Season 1. Gonna dip my toes in and see how the water is.
 
A

antonz

Member
Grizzlyjin said:
This is such a valid point. You don't have to feel bad if you find the Nazi characters interesting, that's the point. You can find their politics and actions reprehensible while still being able to relate to aspects of the character. Walter White is a shitty dude and people love him. Obergruppenführer Smith is easily the best character and actor on the show. I literally finished Season 1 this morning after falling asleep on the last episodes several times. But Smith's storyline was genuinely interesting. The revelation about his son, the dynamic with his wife, his uncovering the conspiracy to kill Hitler. He's got all the interesting storylines.

Juliana - Boring
Joe - Super boring
Frank - Uber boring
Inspector Kido - Good character
Antique Dude - umm cartoony but him bumping against this world's social norms and trying to break through is sorta what I watch this for, the differences in how culture has evolved.

I'm kinda reluctant to dive into Season 2 after slowly trying to refresh myself on Season 1. Gonna dip my toes in and see how the water is.
Click to expand...

You should find 2 alright enough. The 3 "Heroes" evolve a little and some in stupid ways but the bad guys continue to evolve in fascinating ways. Trade Minister and Smith continue to be the highlights as they deal with their world
 
S

Spikematic

Member
This show is fantastic. I can totally understand why some (or many) people would find this meandering and dull, but I actually find it extremely entertaining. Season 2 is a massive improvement over the first and I'm very eager to watch more.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
EP10 Spoiler:
Really liked Abendensen's monologue in the last episode to Julianna. Considering how utterly miserable and wretched their world is, it was nice to hear such a hopeful and heartfelt speech which offered a sliver of optimism regarding the nature of people. It was also really nice to see Julianna get something of a break considering all the shit she's been through throughout her entire life.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
For episode five:
Tagomi eating a Twinkie with chop sticks is one of the best things I've seen on television.
 
P

Parham

Banned
Guerrillas in the Mist said:
Ep 10:
We didn't see a body, did we? Kido looked over a big crater where they were, but they weren't there.
Click to expand...

SpaceWolf said:
Frank obviously isn't dead. Inspector Kido never noticed a body and his body wasn't brought out among the rest of the dead afterwards. If the show was going to kill off one of its main characters in the episode like that, they would absolutely have milked his death for all the drama it would have been worth. He's definitely still out there.
Click to expand...

After watching episode 10, I'm inclined to agree. I was pretty bummed when they left it ambiguous like that.
 
S

Spikematic

Member
SpaceWolf said:
EP10 Spoiler:
Really liked Abendensen's monologue in the last episode to Julianna. Considering how utterly miserable and wretched their world is, it was nice to hear such a hopeful and heartfelt speech which offered a sliver of optimism regarding the nature of people. It was also really nice to see Julianna get something of a break considering all the shit she's been through throughout her entire life.
Click to expand...

That was amazing. And the music accompanying that scene was even more amazing. This season was awesome overall and the wait for the third one's gonna be killer.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
This show is so weird.

I'm lost, saw the part with Juliana and a baby, I'm assuming its hers???

Since when did this turn into science fiction.
 
R

RoKKeR

Member
Binged season 1 this week, some weird bits but overall I really like the atmosphere and overall "feel" of the show. Love the duality between the Japanese and the Nazis, and the main characters are interesting enough. (though mildly annoying at times)

Fun picking up on the dodgy Japanese the non-Japanese actors speak from time to time. Those gaijin aren't nearly formal enough for being subjects to the empire...

Will start Season 2 tonight.
 
W

weepingangelz

Banned
RPGCrazied said:
This show is so weird.

I'm lost, saw the part with Juliana and a baby, I'm assuming its hers???

Since when did this turn into science fiction.
Click to expand...
I dunno, I thought the minute they revealed the tapes from our reality it turned into scifi? That's a different Juliana from our reality, not Tagomi's.
 
D

Dash_Riprock

Member
nOoblet16 said:
Why are people saying "You've fucked up if a Nazi is more interesting than XYZ characters"?

We are not just talking about a moustache twirling one dimensional character. Instead that Nazi happens to be one of the leads with pretty much the highest screen time or atleast the 2nd highest screen time out of any character, so naturally he gets a lot of character development. He also happens to be a Nazi who was originally not one and first and foremost an American, that gives him depth. And then not to mention the actor is fantastic. So there's no point feeling guilty for liking that character because of his association with the Nazi since at the core of it he is a well written and well acted multi dimensional character. If they didn't want the viewers to find him interesting they wouldn't have made him a lead in the first place.

Remember that Hans Landa was the best character in Inglourious Basterds and he was a Nazi.
Click to expand...

Its not that I don't appreciate well-developed, well-written villains. Its that the so-called protagonists in this series so are such boring, self-righteous assholes that I WANT the Japanese/Nazis to just gas them all.
 
Cybrwzrd

Cybrwzrd

Banned
I think I liked S2 more than S1, the story really seemed to hit a good cadence.

The whole
alternate timeline
that Tagomi gets into was a little slow, but it really did flesh out his character well.

John Smith's character arc was also very interesting. He started out in season 1 being a cardboard cutout of a Nazi and has evolved into something more human. I can't wait til next year to see what
his actions in S10
will lead to.

Also, I love the costume design. It helps to make the world just feel organic and real.
 
P

Parahan

Member
The show is interesting enough to keep going, but I would have been okay if the Nazis were moustache twirling evil stereotypes like in the Wolfenstein games.

It's redundant to spend so much time on Smith's family and his sick Hitler-youth squad member son. I mean come on,who the fuck cares about his family? I am sure Smith would have been in charge of gassing thousands of innocent families during the war while his wife supported him.

Same with Joe Blake, who cares if he has daddy issues and and is starting to feel like a human. He worked for the Nazis fully aware of what they stand for.

It would have been more interesting had the show focused more on the resistance and made Frank a badass vengeful jew.
 
G

Geist-

Member
Season 2 is such a massive improvement over the first season. As others have said, Smith and Tagomi are by far the best parts of the show (although Juliana has improved a lot).

Ep.5
someone needs to gif Tagomi eating a Twinkie haha
 
F

Flandy

Member
Just finished up season 2. I was initially pretty hesitatant on starting season 2 after how disappointing season 1 was.
I actually kinda liked Julianna this season so already that was a massive improvement. We also got a much larger focus on on Kido, Tagomi, and Smith which was great since they're the best characters on the show. So yeah this season was a massive improvement over the previous and I'm looking forward to the next one.
 
S

SpaceWolf

Banned
RPGCrazied said:
Since when did this turn into science fiction.
Click to expand...

The pilot?

2015pt1_Castle_mithc-5.jpg
 
S

Somnia

Member
RPGCrazied said:
This show is so weird.

I'm lost, saw the part with Juliana and a baby, I'm assuming its hers???

Since when did this turn into science fiction.
Click to expand...

I thought this was very well explained (your spoilers) if you paid attention the whole time. It's been sci-fi since the pilot...
 
P

Pyroclastic

Banned
Feels a bit odd to say this about an alt history where the japanese won but takomi and kido make me want to be a weeb more than anything japanese game or anime then I've ever watched >_>

I could watch tagomi and kido all day, smith too, brilliant acting by the three of them.

julianna was a lot better character this year too and even though he kind of got the most character development of everyone joe blake is such a boring ass dude even in some of the most crazy situations

I hope they get in a good show runner there's a foundation for a really good third season if they can refine the plot and add more backstory to people.
 
N

Noks415

Member
Just finished season 2. I enjoyed the first season despite all of its' problems but season 2 is so much better, bring on season 3

You know the writing is good when you start sympathizing with the Nazis.


I enjoyed seeing the inner workings of the Nazi regime, but I hope they spend some time Tokyo next season. I'm curious to see how the Japanese empire operates
 
Z

Zapages

Member
Just finished the 2nd season...

Great season and a lot better than season 1.

I can see why Juliana acted the way she did... But Frank oh Frank... :| Is a terrible character all around..

As for John Smith, he is the best character in the show followed by Trade Minister and then the Police Leader.

I hope there is a season 3! :)

I think Smith will become a good character and has resentment to the Nazis, but due to the circumstances that are in his world he can't do a thing to change it. :| AKA the Trowa method from Gundam Wing or the Trojan horse method.
 
S

Sadsic

Member
finished the season

julianna's actions still really bother me... it's really strange to me for her to be this supposedly altruistic hero (at least according to bill dauterive) but then gets all these at least ostensibly good people killed

i also feel like i had a shit ton of empathy for frank this season, even if he was clearly being an asshole for most of it, didn't like that he (probably) died, and found his overall arc kind of underwhelming

joe also was pretty boring for most of the season, but his overall plotline was pretty decent/good

overall the season was clearly much better than the first, primarily i think because frank/julianna/joe are all separated and none of the bullshit love triangle aspects of the show really played out this season -- which gave more focus to the much better characters of john smith/tagomi/kido. i really have no idea where this show goes from here, as most of the original cards of the premise of this show have been used -- they could really do whatever they want after this. i hope they focus on newer, different aspects of this universe, such as the soviet neutral zone, the italian empire or really anywhere else other than america or germany
 
Z

ZZMitch

Member
Just finished this season!

Big fan of the setting of this show, everything with the locations, ways of life etc. Is so on point.

In terms of characters...

John Smith is the most interesting character to me. I hope they delve in to what changed him so much from the DC bomb to present. Like he must have some crazy demons to be going from watching his nations capital get blown up by the Nazis to being heiled as a hero in Berlin.

I really enjoy the Trade Minister and Chief Inspector as well. It took be a bit to come around on the alternate world thing, but I am willing to run with it and it was really interesting seeing how it all played out in the last episode. I am a bit sad this isn't a "real" alternate history though I guess.

I don't know what to make of Joe Blake. It seems his whole character right now is extreme devotion to family/loved ones over all else, even if that means going from a Brooklyn kid to a head Nazi asshole in the span of a couple weeks. I can't tell if I am supposed to like him or hate him lol.

Will be interesting to see what happened to Frank and if he is dead. His character has been a bit hit or miss to me. He has one of my favorite lines from this show when he yells at the Chief Inspector after his sister and her kids are gassed in Season 1. It seems a lot of people don't like him but I think there is room for a great character there that hasn't been fully realized.
 
P

PastorOfMuppets

Banned
I've never had an issue with any of the acting on this show. A lot of the criticisms of the acting seem to me to stem from the illogical plotlines. I think overall the show is a solid B show that will tide me over until the heavy hitters come back but it has some really obvious flaws.

The Juliana arc has never made any sense whatsoever dating back to Season 1. It's kind of been fixed this season because she doesn't make as many baffling choices.

To make up for it, Frank's arc this season was terrible and made no sense at all.
I seriously hope they don't use the alternate universe thing as a way to bring him back to life.

I'm good with how the writers have tackled the Japanese, Nazi and Rebel factions though. The exception is Sarah. Her motivations are so flimsy but since she's a secondary character, I don't notice it too much.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
I really enjoyed season 1, and season 2 is even better. I've been on the edge of my seat and loving the character moments throughout (Frank can go fuck himself, though).

SpaceWolf said:
EP10 Spoiler:
Really liked Abendensen's monologue in the last episode to Julianna. Considering how utterly miserable and wretched their world is, it was nice to hear such a hopeful and heartfelt speech which offered a sliver of optimism regarding the nature of people. It was also really nice to see Julianna get something of a break considering all the shit she's been through throughout her entire life.
Click to expand...

Yes! This probably stands as my favourite scene of the show and nails what I love about it.
About just how rare, and how vital, that consistent moral compass really is.
 
R

Rap2thaMoon

Member
I'm aware that Prime video is new in many counties yet that season 2 isn't up yet is a blunder I mean it's Amazon's own show how hard can it be to put it up in a timely manner?
 
Z

Zalasta

Member
Frank, Joe and the resistance in general turned out to be pretty bland (and radical at times). Ironic that the supposedly good guys are the worst part of this show. Really found it difficult to root for them.
 
T

Tolstoy

Neo Member
did the acting chancellor actually set off the nukes when he pressed that button?

season was fun, lots of flaws, lots of shit characters, but the highs were really fun
 
R

ryan299

Member
This show reminds me of that Revolution show on NBC a few years back. Great premise, but a pretty bland plot.

Smith was great in season 2.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Tolstoy said:
did the acting chancellor actually set off the nukes when he pressed that button?

season was fun, lots of flaws, lots of shit characters, but the highs were really fun
Click to expand...

No, but he did flip the final safety. All that was left was the big red button.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Noks415 said:
Just finished season 2. I enjoyed the first season despite all of its' problems but season 2 is so much better, bring on season 3

You know the writing is good when you start sympathizing with the Nazis.


I enjoyed seeing the inner workings of the Nazi regime, but I hope they spend some time Tokyo next season. I'm curious to see how the Japanese empire operates
Click to expand...
All
Rooting for them to save Hitler in S1 was such a crazy subversion of expectations but they made it work.

Frank is dead. It's not ambiguous, Kido and us see his body multiple times. However, his female companion did live, you see her at the very start of E10.

Huge improvement over S1, though it did feel like this could have been an ending if they wanted it to be.
 
W

wowbaggerBR

Member
Season 1 was pretty average, but this year they managed to deliver some interesting points. Just by sheer curiosity, I'm sold for the long run now.
 
Y

Yopis

Member
Loved season 2 legit sad it's over. Hope show comes back. Really had great time watching.


Smith was excellent.
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
Finished! Guessing a season 3 is in the cards with that ending. Some character stories are boring, the smiths I feel is the best part of the show.
 
S

Sibylus

Banned
Pyroclastic said:
alternate reality dude. I hope they're smart enough to not use it as a cop out for everything
Click to expand...

Agreed, especially because it would violate a central underpinning of the show:
that people are morally/personally inconstant across the realities, and you couldn't just pull everyone out of another reality after death as a reset button.
 
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