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[JohnnyFootball]

I legit like Leonidas. He can be fair when he wants to be. I’ve seen him offer good reasons to get AMD CPUs and even GPUs on occasions. But in this thread I think he is off his nut. After the shit Intel just pulled with the power profiles, there is no justification for criticizing AMD for being misleading and recommending current Intel. What Intel and mobo manufacturers pulled ruined a lot of gamers systems. That is unacceptable. Yes, AMD had the exploding X3D chips last year, but that was largely limited to Asus motherboards with bad BIOS. He also never mentions forward compatibility. It’s mind boggling that someone who may have bought an AM4 motherboard in 2017 can get a 5800X3D and have a great CPU.

Having said that, if Intel can get the power profiles under control, they will be a force to be reckoned with.

However, I seriously doubt that Intel will come anywhere close to the 65W TDP of the 9700X.

One thing I think Intel could do is offer an 8-core power core only CPU with no E-cores. I think that could be an attractive CPU…at least until games can take better advantage of E-cores. Seriously how the fuck have we not started to see Ecores being utilized.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

I just bought 7800X3D but I want 9800X3D to offer notable improvement, that way I can get cheap upgrade in few years from now. Who knows, maybe even AM5 platform will support ZEN 6 (10800X3D).

As far as Intel CPUs are concerned, before I always bought CPUs from them, but now I totally lost my trust to this company. Core i7 14/13 gen power consumption is just too absurd and with instability issues (even with intel limits) and fast degradation (some people reported degradation on a monthly basis) I would have to be an intel fanoy to go with intel platform this time. I hope Intel Arrow Lake fixes these problems, otherwise Intel may not recover from another defeat and that would be bad for all of us (less competition means more expensive CPUs).

I’m glad we don’t have any of those on Neogaf…we’re totally objective around here.

 

[Darkone]

The cheapest is going for a 5800X3D. And it will give you ~30% performance improvement, over that 5600X.

For 4k its 30% improvement?

 

[winjer]

For 4k its 30% improvement?

If you are going for a 5090 or 5080, the 5800X3D it will bring you those improvements. Though it depends on the game.

 

[winjer]

AMD's Ryzen 9000 won't beat the previous-gen X3D models in gaming, but they'll be close — improved 3D V-Cache coming, too

Ryzen 9000's 3D V-Cache will get new features.

www.tomshardware.com

"Is it the fastest in gaming? It's faster than the competition in our tests. X3D is still the king of the hill, but by a much smaller margin than typically between X3D and non-X3D," Woligroski responded. "So a 7800X3D would, yes, be faster than 9700X, but maybe not by as much as you would expect."

 

[analog_future]

AMD's Ryzen 9000 won't beat the previous-gen X3D models in gaming, but they'll be close — improved 3D V-Cache coming, too

Ryzen 9000's 3D V-Cache will get new features.

www.tomshardware.com

Really hope those rumors of releasing the new X3D chips early are true, in that case.

 

[winjer]

AMD Zen5 and Ryzen 9000 Series Launch Dates Revealed by Retailers

Retailers have hinted at the launch dates for AMD's Zen5 series. The AMD Ryzen AI 300 series is set to launch on July 15, with Ryzen 9000 series sales starting on July 31.

www.guru3d.com

Retailers have hinted at the launch dates for AMD's Zen5 series. The AMD Ryzen AI 300 series is set to launch on July 15, with Ryzen 9000 series sales starting on July 31.

 

[SHA]

Whatever that cpu could chew Xbox 2nd Series gonna surpass that.

 

[poppabk]

I legit like Leonidas. He can be fair when he wants to be. I’ve seen him offer good reasons to get AMD CPUs

Gonna need a link for this. Are these good reasons "if you hate yourself", "if you don't like performance", "if you are an idiot".
He has dug himself in as being completely pro-Intel for a long time now.

 

[StereoVsn]

AMD Zen5 and Ryzen 9000 Series Launch Dates Revealed by Retailers

Retailers have hinted at the launch dates for AMD's Zen5 series. The AMD Ryzen AI 300 series is set to launch on July 15, with Ryzen 9000 series sales starting on July 31.

www.guru3d.com

Nice, going to be interesting to see real benchmarks from reviewers.

 

[squallheart]

And here I am still running a ryzen 5600x xD maybe I should look into upgrading.

 

[Bojji]

And here I am still running a ryzen 5600x xD maybe I should look into upgrading.

You can still go for 5700/5800x3d. Cheapest upgrade for ~7700x like performance.

 

[winjer]

And here I am still running a ryzen 5600x xD maybe I should look into upgrading.

Get a 5800X3D. Close to 30% performance improvement, and you don't even have to change motherboard or ram.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

I legit like Leonidas. He can be fair when he wants to be. I’ve seen him offer good reasons to get AMD CPUs and even GPUs on occasions. But in this thread I think he is off his nut. After the shit Intel just pulled with the power profiles, there is no justification for criticizing AMD for being misleading and recommending current Intel. What Intel and mobo manufacturers pulled ruined a lot of gamers systems. That is unacceptable. Yes, AMD had the exploding X3D chips last year, but that was largely limited to Asus motherboards with bad BIOS. He also never mentions forward compatibility. It’s mind boggling that someone who may have bought an AM4 motherboard in 2017 can get a 5800X3D and have a great CPU.

Having said that, if Intel can get the power profiles under control, they will be a force to be reckoned with.

However, I seriously doubt that Intel will come anywhere close to the 65W TDP of the 9700X.

One thing I think Intel could do is offer an 8-core power core only CPU with no E-cores. I think that could be an attractive CPU…at least until games can take better advantage of E-cores. Seriously how the fuck have we not started to see Ecores being utilized.

Because consoles don't have E-cores. Nobody's going to put in the extra work just for Intel systems.

 

[squallheart]

Get a 5800X3D. Close to 30% performance improvement, and you don't even have to change motherboard or ram.

Thanks for the tip I was wondering if it was worth jumping to the newer generation

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Gonna need a link for this. Are these good reasons "if you hate yourself", "if you don't like performance", "if you are an idiot".
He has dug himself in as being completely pro-Intel for a long time now.

Agreed. It's borderline astroturfing at this point.

 

[SonGoku]

One thing I think Intel could do is offer an 8-core power core only CPU with no E-cores. I think that could be an attractive CPU…at least until games can take better advantage of E-cores.

Actually... I'd prefer it the other way around if AMD added c cores to their 8 cores CCDs for 16 to 24 cores total per CCD (8P + 8/16c)
That would be best of both worlds for productivity and gaming on a X8003D class CPU

eriously how the fuck have we not started to see Ecores being utilized.

From what i read online supposedly there's a latency penalty involved accessing E cores similarly (or worse) to the latency penalty seen in Zen 2 when accesing separate CCXs. Gaming CPU threads are usually latency sensitive and not as multi threading friendly to further complicate things.

I hope they figure out a way to eliminate or reduce the latency penalty to the point E cores are more useful for gaming, if they do there truly wont be a need for HT anymore

 

[Leonidas]

But in this thread I think he is off his nut.

In what way? Some of the stuff I mentioned that could happen in this thread was later confirmed by AMD (i.e. Zen5 losing to Zen4 X3D).

What in this thread have I said that you think I'm wrong about?

After the shit Intel just pulled with the power profiles, there is no justification for criticizing AMD for being misleading and recommending current Intel.

AMD had similar issues with X3D last year, its a moot point for me. And when it happened to AMD I posted it days after the reports popped up, waiting to see if anyone else would, but no one here had the balls too.

I criticise AMD for their misleading slides. Lots of PC guys aren't tech savy and don't look at the end notes and realize what happens when you constrain the benchmarks in the way AMD did. Those gaming benchmarks from AMD were contrived.

I don't really recommend either Intel or AMD over the other today. In the mid-range, where I and most people should be buying, they're both great. I chose the 13600K for my personal build because it beat Zen4 in gaming (the only competition in 2022) and I like RAM tuning. And I like having a lot of MT performance/$.

I understand that many AM5 CPUs make sense for a lot of people, but I'd rather have over 90% of Zen4X3D gaming performance while spending a lot less than 90% of a Zen4X3D build, while having much better MT and I am aslo someone who likes undervolting/overclocking and RAM tuning, something I feel is better on Intel platforms.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

In what way? Some of the stuff I mentioned that could happen in this thread was later confirmed by AMD (i.e. Zen5 losing to Zen4 X3D).

What in this thread have I said that you think I'm wrong about?


AMD had similar issues with X3D last year, its a moot point for me. And when it happened to AMD I posted it days after the reports popped up, waiting to see if anyone else would, but no one here had the balls too.

I criticise AMD for their misleading slides. Lots of PC guys aren't tech savy and don't look at the end notes and realize what happens when you constrain the benchmarks in the way AMD did. Those gaming benchmarks from AMD were contrived.

I don't really recommend either Intel or AMD over the other today. In the mid-range, where I and most people should be buying, they're both great. I chose the 13600K for my personal build because it beat Zen4 in gaming (the only competition in 2022) and I like RAM tuning. And I like having a lot of MT performance/$.

I understand that many AM5 CPUs make sense for a lot of people, but I'd rather have over 90% of Zen4X3D gaming performance while spending a lot less than 90% of a Zen4X3D build, while having much better MT and I am aslo someone who likes undervolting/overclocking and RAM tuning, something I feel is better on Intel platforms.

This was a reasonable response.

 

[marquimvfs]

AMD threads with Leonidas being dissimulated is always a joy to watch. Lemme grab my popcorn.

 

[twilo99]

Ok so since the new Qualcomm chips are a bust for gaming, next thing to get excited about is this I guess

AMD's Strix Point chip could boost handheld PC gaming performance by over 30%

The integrated graphics chip powering AMD's Ryzen AI 300 SoCs might be substantially faster than the one currently used for most handheld gaming PCs if GPD's official...

www.techspot.com

 

[JohnnyFootball]

Ok so since the new Qualcomm chips are a bust for gaming, next thing to get excited about is this I guess

AMD's Strix Point chip could boost handheld PC gaming performance by over 30%

The integrated graphics chip powering AMD's Ryzen AI 300 SoCs might be substantially faster than the one currently used for most handheld gaming PCs if GPD's official...

www.techspot.com

I’ve been wanting a Steamdeck but haven’t felt the performance is quite there for me to invest. I hope this makes its way in

 

[StereoVsn]

I’ve been wanting a Steamdeck but haven’t felt the performance is quite there for me to invest. I hope this makes its way in

Seems a bit too power hungry for a handheld if we are talking a measurable advance. Most tests have been running at 45w or higher to show like 30% increase in performance over 780.

 

[twilo99]

I’ve been wanting a Steamdeck but haven’t felt the performance is quite there for me to invest. I hope this makes its way in

Yea non is the current handhelds make sense from a hardware performance standpoint but they will get there

 

[twilo99]

Gotta see what it can do at around 30w TDP but looking tasty

 

[The Mad Draklor]

I’ve been wanting a Steamdeck but haven’t felt the performance is quite there for me to invest. I hope this makes its way in

The big challenge is to get a notable performance boost while staying within the same power envelope. The Zen c cores can provide some power savings and help preserve more die space for the iGPU.

 

[blastprocessor]

Will the 8 core non X variant do 45w TDP perhaps?

 

[twilo99]

July 31st ~$600

AMD Ryzen 9000 Desktop CPUs Listed Online: Ryzen 9 9950X Potentially Costs Around $600 US & 31st July Availability

AMD's next-gen Ryzen 9000 Desktop CPUs based on the Zen 5 core architecture have started being listed online ahead of their July launch.

wccftech.com

This thing might be a nice little gaming laptop

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/asus-zenbook-s-16-16-3k-oled-touch-screen-laptop-amd-ryzen-ai-9-365-24gb-memory-1tb-ssd-scandinavian-white/6584435.p?skuId=6584435

 

[twilo99]

Will the 8 core non X variant do 45w TDP perhaps?

My fanless dreams might materialize

 

[poppabk]

My fanless dreams might materialize

You are Korean?

 

[samoilaaa]

is it worth uprading from 3900x if i dont care about fps higher than 60 ? i dont need 100 , 120 , 240 etc

 

[marquimvfs]

is it worth uprading from 3900x if i dont care about fps higher than 60 ? i dont need 100 , 120 , 240 etc

Are you reaching those framerates? What's the resolution that you play and the rest of the setup? Cuz bottlenecks are a difficult thing to calculate, your processor is allright for more than 90% of the use case you are intending, but maybe in a determined game with a determined setup, you may not reach the intended framerate. The best case would be you open your own thread to discuss your case in full.

 

[Black_Stride]

Damn I have to wait till frikken October to decide whether im Intel or AMD, I thought the U200s coming out in September were gonna be the ArrowLakes...........They better have a loose embargo on the U200Ks cuz if they are doing that day of release embargo shit imma....................just stomach it.

 

[Celcius]

AMD reportedly considering higher TDP for Ryzen 7 9700X - VideoCardz.com

AMD considers higher 120W TDP for Ryzen 7 9700X Zen5 CPU Higher TDP would allow 9700X to outperform 7800X3D. According to a report from Wccftech, AMD is now considering changes to the Ryzen 9000 SKU specifications. The company is informing its board partners that the 8-core Ryzen 9 9700X may...

videocardz.com

The 9700X may not end up at 65w after all...
The basic gist is that it will be tough to charge more than the 7800x3d if it's slower at what most people use it for (gaming).

 

[JohnnyFootball]

AMD reportedly considering higher TDP for Ryzen 7 9700X - VideoCardz.com

AMD considers higher 120W TDP for Ryzen 7 9700X Zen5 CPU Higher TDP would allow 9700X to outperform 7800X3D. According to a report from Wccftech, AMD is now considering changes to the Ryzen 9000 SKU specifications. The company is informing its board partners that the 8-core Ryzen 9 9700X may...

videocardz.com

The 9700X may not end up at 65w after all...
The basic gist is that it will be tough to charge more than the 7800x3d if it's slower at what most people use it for (gaming).

65W seemed a little aggressive.

 

[Leonidas]

LOL at nearly ~2x TDP for what will probably only amount to a ~2% (1080p) gaming increase. Not going to be enough to take something that lost to a 7800X3D (which AMD already confirmed) and make it faster, unless it was nearly tied with it to begin with.

Only 32 days away for us to see Zen5 fall short of AMDs claims

 

[OverHeat]

LOL at nearly ~2x TDP for what will probably only amount to a ~2% (1080p) gaming increase. Not going to be enough to take something that lost to a 7800X3D (which AMD already confirmed) and make it faster, unless it was nearly tied with it to begin with.

Only 32 days away for us to see Zen5 fall short of AMDs claims

 

[FireFly]

LOL at nearly ~2x TDP for what will probably only amount to a ~2% (1080p) gaming increase. Not going to be enough to take something that lost to a 7800X3D (which AMD already confirmed) and make it faster, unless it was nearly tied with it to begin with.

Only 32 days away for us to see Zen5 fall short of AMDs claims

I love how 2% is a negligible increase, but when it causes you to inch past another product it's suddenly super significant. It really highlights the myopia of these forum wars.

 

[Celcius]

LOL at nearly ~2x TDP for what will probably only amount to a ~2% (1080p) gaming increase. Not going to be enough to take something that lost to a 7800X3D (which AMD already confirmed) and make it faster, unless it was nearly tied with it to begin with.

Only 32 days away for us to see Zen5 fall short of AMDs claims

I have to admit after I read that last line I was like "wait, is this Leonidas?"
and then it was lol

 

[Leonidas]

I love how 2% is a negligible increase, but when it causes you to inch past another product it's suddenly super significant. It really highlights the myopia of these forum wars.

2% is never a signifcant increase. In 2022, when 13900K became the fastest CPU, it did so by nearly 10%. That's the type of increase I wished for a 2024 CPU over a 2022 CPU, sadly, we'll have to wait for Arrow Lake or Zen5 3D.

Being the top CPU doesn't even matter to me as these days (since top gaming CPUs launch at $450-$700) I'd rather have a $300-$350 CPU that gets me 90-93% the way there, while saving $100+, and then upgrade the next time I can get a decent uplift.

 

[Haint]

AMD reportedly considering higher TDP for Ryzen 7 9700X - VideoCardz.com

AMD considers higher 120W TDP for Ryzen 7 9700X Zen5 CPU Higher TDP would allow 9700X to outperform 7800X3D. According to a report from Wccftech, AMD is now considering changes to the Ryzen 9000 SKU specifications. The company is informing its board partners that the 8-core Ryzen 9 9700X may...

videocardz.com

The 9700X may not end up at 65w after all...
The basic gist is that it will be tough to charge more than the 7800x3d if it's slower at what most people use it for (gaming).

65W is and was retarded to begin with, performance is the entire point of the X chips and why they cost an extra $50-$100. People wanting prebuilt OEM's with the packin cooler and low power systems are not X customers, they'll buy the regular 9700.

 

[smbu2000]

65W is and was retarded to begin with, performance is the entire point of the X chips and why they cost an extra $50-$100. People wanting prebuilt OEM's with the packin cooler and low power systems are not X customers, they'll buy the regular 9700.

They also release earlier as well so the enthusiasts get their X part and can fully utilize it (or not) with the higher TDP. X should have a higher limit.

My secondary system has a 65W 7700 and it works fine in my smaller mATX build. I didn’t use the wraith cooler but I imagine it would be fine for the system.

 

[winjer]

AMD Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" CPUs To Offer Up To 6400 MT/s 1:1 & 8000 MT/s 1:2 4-DIMM DDR5 Memory Support, Run Cooler & Lower Power By Default

AMD's next-generation Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" Desktop CPUs will run cooler, consume lower power & feature enhanced DDR5 OC capabilities.

wccftech.com

First of all, the integrated memory controller for the AMD Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" CPUs is similar to the Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPUs but comes with slight refinements. We have been told that the CPUs will be able to support DDR5-5600 by default and up to DDR5-6400 memory at a 1:1 fabric clock. The sweet spot is still going to be DDR5-6000 1:1 but on both X670 and X870, the upper limit will be set at 6400 MT/s.

As we already know, the AMD Ryzen Desktop CPUs feature three distinct clock speeds as a part of their internal memory structure, these include:

• Infinity Fabric Clock (FCLK): Governs how quickly CPU cores can communicate across CPU dies and with SOC controllers (e.g. PCIe, SATA, USB)
• Memory Controller (UCLK): Governs how quickly the memory controller can ingest/exgest commands from RAM.
• Memory Clock (MCLK): The frequency of your main system memory.

For those who want to push things higher, the X870E and X870 motherboards will offer a great OC design that is specifically geared towards memory overclocking with new and improved DRAM OC features. AMD's board partners really fine-tuned the DDR5 support on existing AM5 motherboards, making them scale past the 10,000 MT/s barrier with ease which wasn't possible at launch.

AMD Ryzen 9000 Runs Cooler Than Ryzen 7000 & Consumes Lower Power Too By Default​

Another thing that we have learned is that AMD will be going the more efficient route this time around and while Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" CPUs offer great performance numbers, it's ultimately up to the user to decide if he wants to go the performance route or the efficiency one.

By default, the AMD Ryzen 9000 CPUs will be running without PBO enabled. One thing with the Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPUs is that they were pushed to their limits by default, leading to OC being limited and a large number of users just undervolt the chips to find that they can get the same performance at a lower power figure. This also led to higher power input & temperatures.

AMD's Ryzen 9000 "Zen 5" CPUs by default will run cooler than Ryzen 7000 "Zen 4" CPUs. Based on testing with a Ryzen 9 9950X CPU (Default ES), the chip consumed up to 190W of power whereas the Ryzen 9 7950X consumes around 220-ish Watts of power in the same workloads.

 

[Celcius]

How is it that 6400mhz ram is now supported at 1:1 but only 6000mhz is the sweet spot. What does that even mean?

Edit: nevermind, I saw the linked article

 

[SonGoku]

LOL at nearly ~2x TDP for what will probably only amount to a ~2% (1080p) gaming increase. Not going to be enough to take something that lost to a 7800X3D (which AMD already confirmed) and make it faster, unless it was nearly tied with it to begin with.

Only 32 days away for us to see Zen5 fall short of AMDs claims

I don't necessarily disagree with you but its a odd shot coming from someone who championed the last Intel CPU cores which were clocked way beyond the point of diminishing returns with absurd TDP to claim some synthetic win in some cases.

Have they settled for a more reasonable target their CPUs would still have been competitive without the insane TDP

 

[winjer]

LOL at nearly ~2x TDP for what will probably only amount to a ~2% (1080p) gaming increase. Not going to be enough to take something that lost to a 7800X3D (which AMD already confirmed) and make it faster, unless it was nearly tied with it to begin with.

Only 32 days away for us to see Zen5 fall short of AMDs claims

TDP is not a measurement of power consumption. It's just an average amount of heat dissipated in a period of time.
And because AMD, Intel and even Nvidia have different ways of measuring it, this metric means very little.
Doubling TDP does not mean a chip will use double the power. Not even close.

BTW, let's also remember that the 7800X3D has a TDP of 120W and is the most efficient CPU for gaming, by far.

 

[Leonidas]

I don't necessarily disagree with you but its a odd shot coming from someone who championed the last Intel CPU cores which were clocked way beyond the point of diminishing returns with absurd TDP to claim some synthetic win in some cases.

Have they settled for a more reasonable target their CPUs would still have been competitive without the insane TDP

Find the post where I championed the 14900K, I'll be waiting for eternity...

I champion the midrange 13600K, which wasn't clocked past the point of diminishing returns and was not power hungry, where I get ~92% of high end gaming performance (and much better than 7800X3D MT) at much lower cost and after tuning (something I enjoy doing) much lower power than reviews you've seen state, and even better performance...

TDP is not a measurement of power consumption.

No shit, Sherlock.

 

[winjer]

No shit, Sherlock.

Then why are you pretending it is?

 

[Leonidas]

Then why are you pretending it is?

I'm not, you're pretending that I pretend it is, as you do with 90% of my posts.

I just think its funny the TDP might go up almost 2x, when it'll probably amount to only 2% gaming gain (on average) at best (at 1080p with a 4090).

 

[Dorfdad]

I just bought 7800X3D but I want 9800X3D to offer notable improvement, that way I can get cheap upgrade in few years from now. Who knows, maybe even AM5 platform will support ZEN 6 (10800X3D) in 2027.

As far as Intel CPUs are concerned, before I always bought CPUs from them, but now I totally lost my trust to this company. Core i7 14/13 gen power consumption is just too absurd and with instability issues (even with intel limits) and fast degradation (some people reported degradation on a monthly basis) I would have to be an intel fanboy to go with intel platform this time. I hope Intel Arrow Lake fixes these problems, otherwise Intel may not recover from another defeat and that would be bad for all of us (less competition means more expensive CPUs).

7800x3d is still a beast of a cpu what kinda games are you playing or why are you looking for a upgrade already? Just because it’s faster doesn’t mean it’s going to actually improve your games if your current rig isn’t being bottlenecked? . For the cost I’d invest that in faster Ram / SSD or GPU upgrades honestly!