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[airmangataosenai]

Sort of a bitter irony, the bigotry of the right presdures people to the left in ways you might not see in more open and leftist countries in Europe.

 

[Not]

Nice work, Trump

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

So, as an Arab living here for 20 years (as of next month), I can bring some insight into this that many of my Arab friends and I agree on.

We can draw a lot of parallals between what's happening here and the countries many of us grew up in. Women rights, gay rights, religious rights...human rights. If you're not a muslim in parts of the UAE, for example, you stand out and you are marginalized. Period end of story.

So to go to that extreme and come here to find that we are heading in the direction that leads to the state that our homes are in is off putting to us. We came for individual expressionism and will strive for it regardless topic of discussion.

It is tremendously easy for me to shut down my conservative friends here stateside by citing the irony of keeping "sharia law" out of the land while marginilizing the very same groups the government and people in the middle east do. It's simple, if they made the leap to rock Jesus on their shoulder while in the ME, they would know what being a minority feels like. Empathy.

Some false equivalency in my post above but for effect and to paint a picture as to what motivates us.

* is not muslim but am Arab and feel like the words Muslim and Arab in a poll like this would be synonomous.

 

[Ridisc]

Can one become culturally muslim like one can be culturally jewish?

 

[psyfi]

Can one become culturally muslim like one can be culturally jewish?

No, there's no muslim ethnicity.

 

[Ridisc]

No, there's no muslim ethnicity.

This would indicate then at many levels Muslims can therefore become more liberal, but only to a point, and that point is likely to still conflict with some traditional western values.

 

[Deepwater]

Good, let's hope they make it to the polls in 2018.

human beings are more than voting blocs

edit: especially the ones that tend to get fucked regardless of how they vote

 

[The Kree]

This would indicate then at many levels Muslims can therefore become more liberal, but only to a point, and that point is likely to still conflict with some traditional western values.

What's important is that some part of our western values tell us to not be assholes.

 

[Muzy72]

Conservatives treat us like shit, so not surprised

 

[Toxi]

This would indicate then at many levels Muslims can therefore become more liberal, but only to a point, and that point is likely to still conflict with some traditional western values.

I'm not sure how you would come to that conclusion after this survey.

Also, acceptance of homosexuality isn't a traditional western value.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This would indicate then at many levels Muslims can therefore become more liberal, but only to a point, and that point is likely to still conflict with some traditional western values.

Glad you somehow found a way to read this story cynically

 

[Mimosa97]

when you hear about Muslims here they are usually 2nd generation, they grew up here. and when you hear about Muslims in Europe you are usually hearing about 1st generation immigrants.

You might be talking about countries like Sweden but it's the complete opposite in the case of France. Muslims have been living in France way longer than they've been in the US. In France most muslims are 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants. Muslim immigration in France is quite old. It's nothing new. There were already a lot of muslims living in France in the 50's.

 

[NoName999]

But according to non-Muslims on GAF, you can't be liberal and a Muslim.

 

[Mimosa97]

But I thought Islam was fundamentally incompatible with Western values

When you think about it all abrahamic religions are fudamentally incompatible with our modern western values

 

[chromatic9]

Someone should tell England.

Tell England what?

Pew studies show about 50% of Muslims in the UK think the same. If anything US Muslims have become on par with UK Muslims.

US has very few Muslims. A couple of million spread out across 320 million would be ideal of assimilation. Europe has 40-50 million. US needs about 30 million to be on par.

 

[GameAddict411]

I think that the Republicans were very successful in pushing Muslims towards the left because of their policies against minorities and especially Muslims. It only got worse when Trump got elected. I think the polls are great regardless. A more liberal Muslim population, the less chance of radicalization in general. From my personal experience, American Muslims are more liberal than European Muslims. I think it comes down to how dense the Muslim population in America. Muslim Americans are more likely to socialize with the local population and assimilate, where in Europe there are entire neighborhoods with Muslim population. Not saying that there aren't Muslim neighborhoods in America, it's just less common.

 

[GameAddict411]

But I thought Islam was fundamentally incompatible with Western values

As someone who grew up as a Muslim, strict teaching of Islam is not compatible with western values or culture. What we are seeing here are Muslim who are more secular than religious. Similar to how a lot of Christians drink Alcohol and have sex before marriage, but still consider themselves Christians.

 

[Piggus]

Likewise, more than 75% of American Muslims say violence can never be justified to further a religious, social or political cause. That's compared to 59% of Americans overall who said the same.

Whenever some dick face motherfucker tries to argue that Muslims are inherently more violent than other Americans, show them this.

 

[Shaanyboi]

it's almost like.... immigrants assimilate the longer they stay here....

whoa

Woah woah woah start from the beginning....

This is too crazy for me to grasp

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Not suprising. They made a big surge to the left after the wave of bigotry post-9/11.

 

[ISOM]

But according to non-Muslims on GAF, you can't be liberal and a Muslim.

So all of us think that way? Really?

 

[thesoapster]

Depends on which Evangelicals. See this Pew 2014 survey of American Christian groups on homosexuality. Granted, that was 3 years ago so numbers have changed.

On average...

Now that's funny.

 

[Isotropy]

Good. Keep on with that direction.

 

[Brinbe]

Going the same road as American Catholics lol

 

[Oblivion]

In 2007, just 27% of American Muslims said society should approve of homosexuality. This year, more than half (52%) said the same, a leap that surprised even scholars who study Islam in America. Likewise, 10 years ago, 57% of American Muslims said there is more than one way to interpret Islamic teachings. In 2017, 64% agreed.

Holy shit. In a mere 10 years, muslims have evolved more than American Christians have in the past 300 years.

 

[God Dayumm]

But according to non-Muslims on GAF, you can't be liberal and a Muslim.

In the USA you can be anything you want to be 😊🇺🇸🦅

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

i think alot of it has to do with integration

american muslims are better integrated in society, their isn't enclaves as much as they are in europe

It's largely the same communities and enclaves as Europe. Difference is the culture war for at least the last decade is a lot less than Europe as well. There is also better protection from discrimination in the US than say France etc..

Also the European definition of "integration" is closer to assimilation leading to more of seige mentality among communities.

 

[Kisaya]

Great. We need the future generation of American Muslims to not be as bigoted as their ancestors. Some of the enclaves in the US are just really suffocating with toxic ideologies.

 

[bionic77]

I would guess that persecution makes a persecuted group more empathic and tolerant of others.

 

[TAJ]

My Muslim boss was incredibly conservative seven years ago, beyond even the most fringe non-Muslim right wingers. Now your average Trump diehard would consider him a SJW cuck.

 

[Sunster]

You might be talking about countries like Sweden but it's the complete opposite in the case of France. Muslims have been living in France way longer than they've been in the US. In France most muslims are 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants. Muslim immigration in France is quite old. It's nothing new. There were already a lot of muslims living in France in the 50's.

I was talking specifically about Muslims we hear about through news media in Europe overall. Without question that is immigrants. Immigrant Muslim stories are the most sensationalized. I understand some countries have longer histories with Muslims than others.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

It's largely the same communities and enclaves as Europe. Difference is the culture war for at least the last decade is a lot less than Europe as well. There is also better protection from discrimination in the US than say France etc..

Also the European definition of "integration" is closer to assimilation leading to more of seige mentality among communities.

I agree with this post. European countries are more antagonistic towards the community and this fosters an us vs them mentality. While in the US, the population is too small for Muslims to have specific laws made for them, so people don't isolate themselves as much.

 

[DonMigs85]

These are probably the types that just put "Muslim" as their religion on forms and such, but are no more devout or observant than a typical lapsed Catholic.

 

[Neith]

It would be awesome for Muslims as a whole to become more liberal and forsake certain ideologies of their past culture.

 

[cameron]

These are probably the types that just put "Muslim" as their religion on forms and such, but are no more devout or observant than a typical lapsed Catholic.

That doesn't appear to be the case:

But the study's most significant findings may be religious and social, not political.

In 2007, just 27% of American Muslims said society should approve of homosexuality. This year, more than half (52%) said the same, a leap that surprised even scholars who study Islam in America. Likewise, 10 years ago, 57% of American Muslims said there is more than one way to interpret Islamic teachings. In 2017, 64% agreed.

American Muslims were also slightly more likely to identify as politically liberal (30% now vs. 24% in 2007). Nearly two-thirds identify as Democrats and a similar number believe in a bigger government that provides a host of services.

Asked about the essentials of the faith, an overwhelming percentage of Muslims, like Christians, said believing in God was most important. But issues like working for social justice (69%) and protecting the environment (62%) also scored high in the list of essentials for American Muslims.

There's some debate among scholars about whether American Muslims' increasing liberalism on issues like homosexuality is the result of recent immigrants' assimilation to mainstream American values or the rise of native-born millennials, who, like their non-Muslim peers, are more tolerant of the LGBT community.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

So all of us think that way? Really?

You're really taking issue with that statement after having seen how threads involving Islam, Muslims, and the prevailing attitudes toward them go?

 

[SkeptiMism]

But according to non-Muslims on GAF, you can't be liberal and a Muslim.

I'm pretty sure that of the few (but loud) people who argued for that at least in the last thread about the subject, most were muslims.

But feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Des0lar]

when you hear about Muslims here they are usually 2nd generation, they grew up here. and when you hear about Muslims in Europe you are usually hearing about 1st generation immigrants.

Third generation Muslims in Europe are more conservative than either the first or second. The first generation who mostly came during the 70s was actually quite liberal.

 

[B-Dubs]

Well that's what happens when the conservative party is deeply racist. American Muslims would probably still lean conservative if not for the GOP's rampant Islamophobia.

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

Good stuff.

 

[Valhelm]

So all of us think that way? Really?

thank you ISOM for standing up for the most oppressed demographic in American society... the non-Muslims

 

[Messofanego]

As someone who grew up as a Muslim, strict teaching of Islam is not compatible with western values or culture. What we are seeing here are Muslim who are more secular than religious. Similar to how a lot of Christians drink Alcohol and have sex before marriage, but still consider themselves Christians.

Any statistics to back that up that we're only studying secular muslims being liberal here and religious muslims are still bigoted?

 

[ISOM]

You're really taking issue with that statement after having seen how threads involving Islam, Muslims, and the prevailing attitudes toward them go?

thank you ISOM for standing up for the most oppressed demographic in American society... the non-Muslims

Ah, yes because not everyone feels the same way as some asses that like to expose themselves whenever the topics of Muslims come around. I get annoyed by generalizations in general, so I don't know what the fuck you guys are doing coming at me as If I'm the one in the wrong.

 

[milanbaros]

Is that right? Only 1% of the US population? How is it so low in such a diverse and immigration based population? It is 5 times that in the U.K.

 

[Toxi]

These are probably the types that just put "Muslim" as their religion on forms and such, but are no more devout or observant than a typical lapsed Catholic.

No true Muslim

Is that right? Only 1% of the US population? How is it so low in such a diverse and immigration based population? It is 5 times that in the U.K.

The majority of US immigrants aren't from Muslim majority countries.

 

[Trojita]

As someone who grew up as a Muslim, strict teaching of Islam is not compatible with western values or culture. What we are seeing here are Muslim who are more secular than religious. Similar to how a lot of Christians drink Alcohol and have sex before marriage, but still consider themselves Christians.

Christians can't drink alcohol? lol

Water into wine.

 

[Hypron]

when you hear about Muslims here they are usually 2nd generation, they grew up here. and when you hear about Muslims in Europe you are usually hearing about 1st generation immigrants.

I'm pretty sure most Muslims in France are 2nd/3rd generation and grew up here. Immigration is not a new thing.

 

[eizarus]

Right-wing politics has become an existential threat to Muslims in the West, to be frank.

The further they keep shifting to the left and aligning with the Left-wing policies, the better it will be for them in the long-run.

The Left actually tends to give a shit about them and their rights.

This. I've literally heard conservative American Islamic scholars/muftis urge people to align with the left and support LGBTQ rights, because when the right wing hammer comes down, it hits us all. As cheesy as it may sound, the only way we're getting through this is by respecting and working with each other.

when you hear about Muslims here they are usually 2nd generation, they grew up here. and when you hear about Muslims in Europe you are usually hearing about 1st generation immigrants.

I'd say most of Europe is on 2nd or 3rd. The UK is on 3rd/4th (a lot of Muslims came in the from the Indian Subcontinent following WW2)

 

[Trojita]

I'm pretty sure most Muslims in France are 2nd/3rd generation and grew up here.

And they usually end up being more conservative.

 

[Budi]

Well this is great news, glad to hear.