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American Soccer |OT| Life, liberty and the pursuit of the beautiful game

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I like the idea of having Klinsman be the director of US Soccer and help developing talent, since he was part of Germany's talent revival a decade ago. Except for the part where, you know, he sold Mats Hummels and almost sold Thomas Mueller.

The man wouldn't know talent if it hit him with a strudel he baked himself.

and this lol:

Ives Galarcep Verified account
‏@SoccerByIves
Klinsmann makes valid point that it’s tough to take for granted #NASL is a lower division than #MLS without promotion/relegation. #USMNT
 

daoster

Member
Soo... no actual evidence that you can provide, then? Just that "you can totally see it" because "sports stars"?
The media will hardly care about Donovan in mere months, he will no longer be playing for club or country and has like negative charisma. If Klinsmann (also a pretty huge sports star by the way) provides actual evidence of phone calls and emails, what's the "under Donovan's thumb media" going to do, not report it? He is the coach of the national team through 2018, not some powerless victim.

LOL! St. Donovan the Great, the Blessed, the Humble.

Why does Klinsmann have to provide any actual evidence here? He hasn't disputed any of the comments Donovan has made (least, not to my knowledge). He's just silent been on the whole issue (regarding comments Donovan made in SI).

And you know what, whether or not his son's apologized, whether or not he's called Donovan since dropping him, that's a personal matter between him, his kid, and Donovan. Letting it play out the way it has, is probably much better for Klinsmann, whether or not Donovan lied or not.

Anonymous sources are great, until they don't prove your point right?

Why don't they source themselves! They don't have anything to fear from Donovan! What possible reason could they have to be anonymous? It's not like the Sports world is full of Anonymous sources or anything!
 

xbhaskarx

Member
^ If you don't see the difference in the power dynamics between one US Soccer source who is under Klinsmann coming to his defense anonymously, and 22 anonymous sources criticizing Klinsmann when he is the boss, I don't know what to say to you...

and this lol:

Ives Galarcep Verified account
‏@SoccerByIves
Klinsmann makes valid point that it’s tough to take for granted #NASL is a lower division than #MLS without promotion/relegation. #USMNT

How many players are with NASL teams instead of MLS teams by choice, meaning they were wanted but chose to snub MLS. A 38 year old Marco Senna who when he first joined the Cosmos said he hoped to lead them back to MLS through promotion? Even Miguel Ibarra was passed on a few times by every MLS team before Portland took him 27th in the Supplemental Draft, and then again when he was cut. Now that he's good enough that MLS teams want him, the only reason he's in NASL is because acquiring him would require paying a transfer fee, it's not like he wouldn't jump at the chance if it was up to him.

Just another case of Klinsmann saying random shit that pops into his head.
 
I like the idea of having Klinsman be the director of US Soccer and help developing talent, since he was part of Germany's talent revival a decade ago. Except for the part where, you know, he sold Mats Hummels and almost sold Thomas Mueller.

The man wouldn't know talent if it hit him with a strudel he baked himself.
It would've made sense to keep Bradley or someone like him as the X's and O's / in-game coach and then hire Klinsmann as some sort of technical director/guru to oversee things, but neither Bob nor Jurgen would have been happy with that.
 
^ If you don't see the difference in the power dynamics between one US Soccer source who is under Klinsmann coming to his defense anonymously, and 22 anonymous sources criticizing Klinsmann when he is the boss, I don't know what to say to you...

So? 22 anonymous sources are still anonymous and doesn't make them any more right than any other "anonymous source" out there.

I could easily make up bullshit about Donovan being left off the team because he put his milk in the bowl before his cereal, post it under a different name and claim an anonymous source told me that, does that make it any less valid than someone saying "Klinsman sucks!" or "Klinsmann doesn't have control of the team" or whatever?

I literally have no idea why you're clinging to this "well I have more anonymous sources than you! I need to see your proof" without noticing the irony of it all. Nor do I not understand where this Landon Donovan is infallible crusade is coming from.
 
I get that tactics is overrated for national team sides when most of the players don't play with eachother on a day to day basis. But managers who's gotten results at the international level have all implemented a system that fits his team. Could be as rigid and specific as Bielsa's press press and press some more or as loose as Del Bosque's just do what you do at Barca.

Some times the players are really good so you tailor your system to them, even if it doesn't fit your own personal philosophy (see: Lippi). Sometimes your players aren't all that good, so you do your best to play in a way that minimizes these short comings (see: Van Gaal). Some simply fail because they couldn't figure it out, even though we all know they're incredibly capable managers (see: Capello)

What's Klinsman's vision? What does the USMNT try to do when they step on the field? I have yet to see anything coherent up to this point.
 

Don't see much wrong with it

It's not even that he's not skilled enough to get around better defenders in the PL. He straight up gets manhandled by the likes of Gary Cahill and Phil Jagielka. For all this talk about how much physicality he possesses, he's actually just not strong enough to take on world class defenders.

On the other hand, Thomas Müller looks like a goober and barely weighs 170 pounds, but he's actually an amazing athlete because he's got incredible balance, coordination and body control, not to mention his lower body strength. It's literally impossible to fight him off of a 50/50 ball.

That's the kind of talent I hope the Klinsmann revolution can cultivate.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Maybe Donovan just lacks the ability to check his email or voice mail.


Conrad: He's in a fantasy football league with me and my friends, and has been since 2001. I love that he wanted to join in, especially now he's a celebrity at this point. It's pretty special that he's been in our league 15 years and hasn't won it. He didn't even make the playoffs half the time. It's the best. You'd drop him emails and as the season went along, you would never hear from him. He'd basically be telling you "F--- you" by not emailing back. He's a good sport.

Clever move getting his friends in the Donovan-controlled media to cover for him once again...
 

xbhaskarx

Member
On the eve of Donovan's final national team game... one last opportunity to shit on everything he's accomplished:

Jurgen Klinsmann takes final swipe at Landon Donovan before USMNT farewell: ‘He could have done a bit more’

Despite his status as the greatest player in national team history, Donovan never achieved the same level of greatness at the club level - a fact Klinsmann was quick to point out on the eve of Donovan's last international appearance.


“As a coach you always want to see a player who drives for his 100 percent and I’m looking at Landon always that I wish in a certain way he could have done a bit more here and a bit more there,” Klinsmann said.

once openly suggested that Donovan damaged his career by playing in MLS. “Maybe he can explain that better, what happened when he went overseas. Or he simply wanted to play his entire career in MLS, which is fine, too, if that’s what he wanted. I think as a coach you always wish for the extra things that you see in somebody and I think he had that opportunity and if he’s fine with it, that’s okay. I think he could’ve gone even further than that.”

Great point, at the club level he's no Brad Davis or Chris Wondolowski... at least those guys went to England and Germany instead of playing their whole careers in MLS.

"a bit more here and there" is just about on the level of his comment after the cut that other players were "a little bit ahead"....

1st USMNT goals
1st USMNT assists
1st MLS regular season goals
1st MLS regular season assists
1st MLS playoffs goals
1st MLS playoffs assists
5 MLS Cups
1 US Open Cup
2 Supporters’ Shields
4 CONCACAF Gold Cups


Landon Donovan says final USMNT game a fitting occasion to "put a ribbon on my career"

Eric Wynalda of all people makes an appearance in the comments section:
Eric Wynalda

A manager that cant manage an ego, sometimes his own, shouldn't manage, period. Anybody that still thinks leaving LD off the team was a good idea, is an idiot, period. Just don't factor out the ego part. JK's not LD's. This decision had nothing to do with LD's ability. It was lack of managerial ability if anything. Sorry to interject but this stuff pisses me off
 

xbhaskarx

Member
The next three highest active players don't have as many national team goals + assists as Donovan's 115:

39 + 12 = 51 - Dempsey
17 + 13 = 30 - Beasley
23 + 5 = 28 - Altidore
=109
 

xbhaskarx

Member
U-14 camp

BzhqHCICAAAzfeG.jpg

5-6 players with links to Kleiban, most importantly Efrain Alvarez and "Xuxuh" Hilton, MLS better keep Chivas USA's academy running for as long as LA2 is out of MLS...
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Christian Pulisic, U-17 MNT Riding Yearlong Wave of Success
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmLEfvTxZaU


Promising rookie Tommy Thompson gives Earthquakes a boost
http://www.mercurynews.com/earthqua...rookie-tommy-thompson-gives-earthquakes-boost


A Young Striker’s Death Haunts American Soccer
Miro Rys Was One of the Youngest Americans Ever to Play in a World Cup Qualifier
http://online.wsj.com/articles/a-young-strikers-death-haunts-american-soccer-1412893380

Sad story, died in a car accident at 20 right after signing with Hertha Berlin...
 

Heretic

Member
Sorry to disappoint you, busy day... but if I'm being called out by name:

I think Klismann has pretty much proven through is comments to be full of shit over the last few years (confirming what others like Lahm have said about him). It's a bit frustrating for those who actually believe words have meanings, although it is amusing to watch his personality cult engage in mental gymnastics to justify his bizarre decisions based on his comments like amateur Kremlinologists. Klinsmann's statements are about as internally consistent as your average thousand-plus year old religious text. Of course those holy books are followed by billions of people so I'm not surprised self-loathing Eurosnobs (granted some others are just suffering from Stockholm Syndrome) believe everything he says just because he was once a star Euro player (it's true he's a better coach than other former stars like Maradona or #1 worst MLS coach Ruud Gullit, but then Klinsmann did unleash #4 on that list Aron Winter on the league).



What's really amusing about this comment is that anyone who expressed agreement with Donovan's position did so when it was the only one out there, and now you're mocking those people for circlejerking while simultaneously buying into the other position now that there are two competing (and mutually exclusive, barring some strange timing stuff and LD not checking his email) stories.

Personally I'm willing to consider all evidence. I can't think of any case over the last decade where Donovan has straight up made false statements, but who knows maybe he is a liar as well (whitney houston receipts . gif)... are there any examples you'd like to share? From what I've observed, Donovan is far too honest, from publicly discussing his mental fatigue before his infamous hiatus (that mostly coincided with the offseason and caused him to miss 3.5 of the Galaxy's league games) to handing Klinsmann the rope to hang him with his pre-WC comments in that ESPN video series, as if not being the same player he used to be meant he's not still better than a guy like Brad Davis will ever be. With Klinsmann, on the other hand, it seems to me like there is almost no connection between what he says and does. Since I asked for examples from Donovan, here's one I dug up, reaching way back to October 7 of the year 2014:

"We left quite a few of the experienced players out because we want to give the younger players a chance to break in. Guys like...Chris Wondolowski...are not in this roster...simply because we want to see the youngsters make their point." -Klinsmann October 6, 2014

Chris Wondolowski added to USA roster for friendly vs. Ecuador -October 7, 2014... because when you're giving younger players a chance to break in why call up Andrew Wooten or Jack McInerney or half a dozen guys who wouldn't be 35 in Russia.



You seem pretty sure of that, based on... who knows what.

When Klinsmann left Donovan out of hex games following his hiatus, saying he had to work his way back into the team, he completely dominated the 2013 Gold Cup like few have dominated a tournament before. And then in the hex he had both the goal and assist in the 2-0 win over Mexico to clinch qualification.

Also, Donovan didn't start in back to back games elimination games for the US at a tournament once: the quarterfinal and semifinal of the 2011 Gold Cup. He came in as a substitute and made the game-winning assist to Dempsey in the 1-0 semifinal win over Panama:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxbYvmAdI0I

Still, it was up in the air whether he'd start the final against Mexico or not. According to Bradley:



Donovan's reaction before the game:



Donovan's reaction in the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTjxVoLGxyw
(by the way he was also right there at the far post on Bradley's header, just in case)

But hey if you say he'd be an "absolute cancer" who can dispute that rock solid argument....

===

On another note, I find it interesting that some people are so ready to believe what some anonymous source at US Soccer told Alexi Lalas and that he tweeted out (does the source have first hand knowledge? has he seen the email or have proof of the phone call? or is that just what he has been told?). I assume those same people must really be convinced that Klinsmann is a completely incompetent coach based on Brian Straus' 5,000+ word Sporting News article which had 22 sources....

In that case there was good reason for the anonymity, Klinsmann is running things and could really harm someone's career if they publicly spoke out against him. I'm not sure why anonymity is necessary here, Donovan has no real power (see: getting left off the WC roster) and his international career will be over in another 30 minutes. People discussing what kind of guy he is have nothing to really gain (aside from Arena for a couple more months, we'll have to see if he comes out with a Lahm-style book exposing Donovan as a fraud once the season ends).
Donovan pretty much publicly accused Klinsmann of being a two faced liar, if Klinsmann can provide evidence (emails, voicemails) that Donovan is lying to harm his reputation, he should do so to reputable journalists, what could even diehard "Donovan circlejerkers" do at that point but accept it?
What an amazing post. Holy shit.
 

Nesotenso

Member
Klinsmann is not the only one asking the question 'What if ?' when it comes to Landon's career. It is going to be asked by others long after Klinsmann is not the manager anymore

And fucking Wynalda should just not talk about anything soccer related ever.
 
- Brian Straus: Jurgen Klinsmann discusses Landon Donovan's career, USA's future

Tactical bit from the middle:
Midfield Evolution

For a significant chunk of Klinsmann’s tenure, the U.S. has relied on a core of veteran midfielders who prioritize team shape, timely tackling and smart passing. Michael Bradley and Jermaine Jones are very good at what they do and both are capable of contributing to the attack. Kyle Beckerman, who started three of four games at the World Cup, is a quintessential defensive midfielder who excels supporting the back four while the likes of Maurice Edu, Sacha Kljestan and even Geoff Cameron have filled in at one of the national team’s deepest positions.

But Klinsmann wasn’t thrilled with the way the U.S. finished the World Cup, unable to establish much possession or attacking rhythm against either Germany or Belgium (until it was desperate).

While there’s no real reason the aforementioned vets should be exiting the U.S. picture, Klinsmann has introduced a new wrinkle. Against the Czech Republic last month, he started Alejandro Bedoya, Joe Corona and Mix Diskerud – each of whom is considered an attacking midfielder. The Americans won, 1-0, thanks to Bedoya’s goal in Prague. The trio very well could start together again on Friday night. Among the six midfielders named to the current roster (five remain after Julian Green’s departure), only Alfredo Morales can be considered a more traditional holding midfielder. And he’s played only twice for the senior team.

“It’s a new cycle, it’s another four years until the world cup,” Bedoya, 27, told SI.com Thursday at Rentschler Field. “We’ve been moving forward now with a new young team. With every new cycle you want to try new players and stuff, and I feel old now with all these young guys coming in. I think it’s important to try new things. That’s the only way we’re going to get better is to be able to use different formations, different tactics.”

The potential upside is more possession and a more dangerous and proactive link between the midfield and the forwards, whether it’s the likes of Jozy Altidore or Chris Wondolowski up high or a speedy wide player such as Joe Gyau. Bedoya said that the movement off the ball can be more dynamic and that the potential for swapping positions during play is greater. The downside is a lack of defensive experience and bite. That’s something Klinsmann has been stressing since the World Cup.

“In general terms, we always talk about defending as a whole team and attacking as a whole team and getting everybody connected and everybody has to play both sides of the ball. But going back to the World Cup, where we really struggled, especially against Belgium, was to defend as a team, defend as a unit,” Klinsmann said. “So with a new cycle starting and looking at the next generation of players coming through, we want to give them the opportunity to show that in our environment … if you have players committed to do both sides of the ball and do that with enormous discipline but also aggressiveness and on top of that, obviously skill, it would be great to kind of move on that path.”

Diskerud, Bedoya and Corona certainly aren’t as imposing as the World Cup starters. They’re different players. But they have the skill to keep and move the ball. Klinsmann’s aim is to lift their tenacity to the same level as their technique.

“It’s only been one game now but I feel like we showed [in Prague] that we can step up when we need to. We managed to keep the ball and we played how we wanted to. Of course Michael and Kyle and Jermaine, they’ve been around for a while and they have a lot of skills to bring, but we want to show what we can be as well,” Diskerud, 24, told SI.com. “[Klinsmann] told us, and the press, that he wanted to see players like me and Joe Corona and Bedoya contribute defensively and kind of be on our toes … We look at it as a challenge and something I definitely want to develop in my game.”

Bradley (Toronto FC), Jones (New England Revolution), Beckerman (Real Salt Lake) and Edu (Philadelphia Union) each have MLS games this weekend but may be called in for next Tuesday’s friendly against Honduras.



Also, lengthy Carlisle interview with Donovan:

- Landon Donovan talks USMNT, World Cup snub, Klinsmann and depression
 

ZZMitch

Member
Revs jersey came in the mail today! Found a good deal online and jumped on it, its super nice.

A little sad it won't have the new MLS logo on it but I guess that just means I will have to get another one later heh
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Klinsmann reiterated the sentiment to reporters, explaining that when the whole team doesn't work together, the best opponents will exploit the gaps.

“I think where we really struggled, especially against Belgium, was to defend as a unit. When two or three players are not involved in getting behind the ball and making things tight and difficult for the opponent to play through, then you end up with this crazy amount of shots that [they] had against us.“


That is almost as ridiculous as when he said anyone can play left back... it's like something Mark Watson would say after the Quakes get outshot 30 to 10 and barely have any possession in the final third.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Roger Bennett: Landon Donovan: A complex man in a simple game

Landon Donovan is the Vincent Van Gogh of American soccer. A man whose achievement may only truly be appreciated once he is gone.

The 32-year-old’s early, fleeting attempts to establish himself in the Bundesliga conjured a scent of failure, which poisoned the achievements he routinely unfurled here. A product, perhaps, of the hint of self-loathing, frustration, and inferiority laced into American soccer culture in the 2000s.

Yup.

Unfortunately for Donovan, Jurgen Klinsmann was amongst those who lacked patience, ultimately axing the national team talisman from the squad on the eve of World Cup 2014. A humiliating, dramatic departure on par with Eddard Stark’s.

Klinsmann is Joffrey, it all makes sense now...
 

Cystm

Member
I am wearing my Donovan centennial jersey at work today.

Whatever the beef between Donovan and Klinsmann, I think Donovan has been obviously huge for US football. Klinsmann is huge for progressing the US game and I like the direction he is taking the team.
 

Askani

Member
Royals game is probably rained out so I was going to be able to focus on Landon's goodbye game. However I was just handed two free tickets to the Sporting vs Chicago game tonight. The Soccer Gods giveth, and the Soccer Gods taketh away.
 
It's absurd that there are two MLS games tonight, one of which overlaps the US game. They need to start adhering to the international calendar a little better.

Yeah. We need to move to August -> May.

Just kidding. But is there any particular reason why MLS is really fucking stubborn when it comes to international dates?
 
But is there any particular reason why MLS is really fucking stubborn when it comes to international dates?
iirc, it's also a weather-related concern. They just don't want to play too early or late in the year, and every weekend off for international dates means either extending the season in one direction or the other, or they can play more weeknight games that don't sell well.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
That article is so stupid. Yes, we have better stats without him but he's not a D-Mid

If we played him striker, which is what he is, it'd be a different story.

Chalk those stats up to Petke's stupidity.

Well, if they're not going to play him in the proper position, might as well get someone who does play that position instead? I don't know, I'm no NYRB expert, but when I do see him he's been rather ineffective.

What's the reasoning behind using him as a d-mid?
 

Osorio

Member
Well, if they're not going to play him in the proper position, might as well get someone who does play that position instead? I don't know, I'm no NYRB expert, but when I do see him he's been rather ineffective.

What's the reasoning behind using him as a d-mid?

Because we're paying him 3.5 mil

So let's put him on the field somewhere! Anywhere!

Even though it ruins the balance of the midfield!
 

Askani

Member
Yeah. We need to move to August -> May.

Just kidding. But is there any particular reason why MLS is really fucking stubborn when it comes to international dates?

iirc, it's also a weather-related concern. They just don't want to play too early or late in the year, and every weekend off for international dates means either extending the season in one direction or the other, or they can play more weeknight games that don't sell well.

Our schedule has been wonky since Open Cup started in mid June and CCL behind that. Since then and the and of the season we will have had games on:

Sunday - 2
Monday - 0
Tuesday - 3
Wednesday - 3
Thursday - 2
Friday - 7
Saturday - 7

Just as many Friday games as Saturday games and 5 Tuesday/Thursday games. Weirdness abounds.
 

Meier

Member
It's absurd that there are two MLS games tonight, one of which overlaps the US game. They need to start adhering to the international calendar a little better.[/url]

I totally get the whole we're not going to abide by the typical FIFA calendar -- it is what it is, but they really should extend the season another few weeks (maybe one in each direction) so as to avoid some of the conflicts with international dates. Even if it was just a few less times a year, that'd go a long way.
 
iirc, it's also a weather-related concern. They just don't want to play too early or late in the year, and every weekend off for international dates means either extending the season in one direction or the other, or they can play more weeknight games that don't sell well.

I wonder if the potential of a more balanced schedule with an even number of teams can help a little. Schedule always seems a little too sparse in places and a little too packed in others

Our schedule has been wonky since Open Cup started in mid June and CCL behind that. Since then and the and of the season we will have had games on:

Sunday - 2
Monday - 0
Tuesday - 3
Wednesday - 3
Thursday - 2
Friday - 7
Saturday - 7

Just as many Friday games as Saturday games and 5 Tuesday/Thursday games. Weirdness abounds.

Yeah I thought it seemed weird. Also the World Cup break probably didn't help.
 
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