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American Soccer |OT| Life, liberty and the pursuit of the beautiful game

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N

Nesotenso

Member
yeah I am willing to give one of the more successful US managers time to implement his vision. In the meantime, if he makes completely honest observations then I welcome it. God knows it is more refreshing than Landon worship.
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
Nesotenso said:
for fuck's sake what the hell has it got to do with training even when the German-Americans are struggling to get first team minutes. yeah it is the training when people can't even get off the fucking bench.

I hope Garber's and MLS ownership 'feelings' are hurt again.
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Yeah I don't get it. Ever since Landongate there's been a weird backlash where everything Klinsmann says is automatically treated as the worst thing ever. It's getting quite tiring really. Dude did a pretty decent job of building a pretty good German side and has done well with the US team so far so I may tend to take what he says over the "lol Klinsmanns talking again" crowd.

Not that he's without criticism but it's hard to, you know, criticize him when people don't actually understand what he's saying and instead are going for this weird crusade against the guy and seeing fault in literally every word he says. The good criticism gets drowned out over the senseless circlejerking.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Notrollious said:
Yeah I don't get it. Ever since Landongate there's been a weird backlash where everything Klinsmann says is automatically treated as the worst thing ever. It's getting quite tiring really. Dude did a pretty decent job of building a pretty good German side and has done well with the US team so far so I may tend to take what he says over the "lol Klinsmanns talking again" crowd.

Not that he's without criticism but it's hard to, you know, criticize him when people don't actually understand what he's saying and instead are going for this weird crusade against the guy and seeing fault in literally every word he says. The good criticism gets drowned out over the senseless circlejerking.
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It'd be nice if people can name a couple of tacticians worth a damn.

Not sure anyone can do better than Klinsmann at the moment, with the dual role he has. Gripe all you want about his tactical acumen (well founded), he's the best we got. A Euro manager who understands what U.S. soccer is about.
 
S

smokeandmirrors

Banned
That said it is possible he's overworking the players but I don't think that was directed towards any MLS guys in particular, knowing it's the end of the season here. It definitely seems more directed at the guys in the European Leagues, especially those who had good showings during the World Cup and are now struggling to get off the bench because they haven't been performing as well.

You know, the younger guys who are going to pretty much be the backbone of the team now since the MLS guys are a little older and some might not be around for 2016 and many won't be around for 2018 and beyond.

People in the US don't seem to have a lot of super critical coaches so it's a weird (and refreshing) transition to someone not afraid to say what's going on.

Hasphat'sAnts said:
It'd be nice if people can name a couple of tacticians worth a damn.

Not sure anyone can do a better than Klinsmann at the moment, with the dual role he has. Gripe all you want about his tactical acumen (well founded), he's the best we got. A Euro manager who understands what U.S. soccer is about.
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And there's the kicker.

A lot of it screams left over sourness after Landongate and a bit of not knowing what to do with someone who differs from the standard non-commital bullshit we get with coaches here all the goddamned time.

Arials said:
There's a joke to be made there.
Click to expand...

It took me a minute. Didn't even realize it when I typed that.
 
M

Meier

Member
I didn't read it like he was talking about them breaking down per se. I read it more as hey it's easy to get amped up prior to a World Cup.. you want to be in your absolute best form possible. Keeping at that level after when there's less immediate incentive to be at your best is key. The World Cup is like a "contract year" effectively.
 
E

Esch

Banned
I don't get why what Klinsmann said is so objectionable. All he wants is our players to perform to their fullest and try and make sure they start. Is there something particularly incendiary about that?
 
B

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Esch said:
I don't get why what Klinsmann said is so objectionable. All he wants is our players to perform to their fullest and try and make sure they start. Is there something particularly incendiary about that?
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Everyone's pretty convinced that he over-trained the team prior to the world cup, which led to all those injuries and everyone coming out of it looking like half the players they were going in.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
Notrollious said:
And there's the kicker.

A lot of it screams left over sourness after Landongate and a bit of not knowing what to do with someone who differs from the standard non-commital bullshit we get with coaches here all the goddamned time.
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If the defensive performances of MLS clubs are anything to go by, there's not a single coach in the league who could've gotten us through with 4 goals conceded in the group stage.

Never mind that 4 goals conceded is far from a good record to begin with.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
If the defensive performances of MLS clubs are anything to go by, there's not a single coach in the league who could've gotten us through with 4 goals conceded in the group stage.
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What does that even mean, besides just being a shot at MLS? How much MLS do you even watch?

In any case it's not like he was dependent on MLS defenders only, Johnson, Cameron, and Brooks are not in MLS, Beasley and defensive midfielder Jones weren't in MLS at the time.

Also looking just at the 4 goals conceded in a vacuum is ridiculous given that number would have been higher if not for some record-breaking goalkeeping by Howard in the Belgium game (38 shots, 27 on target).

Also if two of the four teams hadn't been a total disaster during the tournament:

Portugal was missing a few regular starters due to injury, plus Pepe was suspended after his red card, and Ronaldo was playing at 60%.
Ghana was having all sorts of internal problems, physically fighting with each other, Muntari and Boateng being thrown off the team in the middle of the tournament, and the players almost quitting the team until their federation delivered $3 million in cash to pay them.
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Some numbers from the World Cup:
xbhaskarx said:
The modern era of American soccer began with the 1990 World Cup. There have now been seven World Cups in the modern era, with the U.S. qualifying for each subsequent tournament since Italy 90.

A look at Klinsmann’s team performance in Brazil shows several figures where the team does not compare favorably to its predecessors:

-In its four games, the USA averaged 43.5 percent possession, the second lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1994: 42.6 percent).

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 500 passes per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 87 percent. Both figures are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 168 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 77 percent. Both figures, again, are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. averaged 98.5 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, the third lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1990: 90.0, 1994: 89.8).

-The U.S. took 44 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 10.15 per 90 minutes, the lowest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. allowed 94 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 21.7 per 90 minutes, the highest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-According to the FIFA statistic “dangerous chances,” in the 2014 World Cup the USA trailed its opponents by a 248 to 131 margin through four games.
Click to expand...

The quality of play in MLS was far worse at the time of previous World Cups than it was in 2014, and the last three WC teams were coached by guys from MLS... although I'm not sure how Klinsmann avoids that "MLS taint" just because he was never an actual coach in the league, considering his involvement in MLS with Toronto (urging them to hire Aron Winter, recommending players who were mostly disasters) was a complete clusterfuck compared to Arena and Bradley.
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
xbhaskarx said:
What does that even mean, besides just being a shot at MLS? How much MLS do you even watch?
Click to expand...

I watch enough of MLS to see that defenses are frequently unorganized and yield tremendous amount of space, which is also why I enjoy it. It's entertaining.

The players may not be as talented, but even if they were on equal footing talentwise, no one will confuse this league with Serie A.

xbhaskarx said:
Also looking just at the 4 goals conceded in a vacuum is ridiculous given that number would have been higher if not for some record-breaking goalkeeping by Howard in the Belgium game (38 shots, 27 on target).

Also if two of the four teams hadn't been a total disaster during the tournament:
Click to expand...


1.) Group stage. Belgium doesn't enter into this conversation.

2.) Ghana was the first game of the tournament, so unless you believe that the internal problems happened the moment they landed in Brazil, U.S.A. probably played them at their best. And for all its internal problems, Ghana was still good enough to take a 2-2 draw off of Germany. Just in case anyone had forgotten.

xbhaskarx said:
The modern era of American soccer began with the 1990 World Cup. There have now been seven World Cups in the modern era, with the U.S. qualifying for each subsequent tournament since Italy 90.

A look at Klinsmann’s team performance in Brazil shows several figures where the team does not compare favorably to its predecessors:

-In its four games, the USA averaged 43.5 percent possession, the second lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1994: 42.6 percent).

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 500 passes per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 87 percent. Both figures are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The 2014 U.S. squad allowed its opponents an average of 168 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, at an accuracy rate of 77 percent. Both figures, again, are the highest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. averaged 98.5 passes in the final third per 90 minutes, the third lowest of the seven World Cup teams since 1990 (1990: 90.0, 1994: 89.8).

-The U.S. took 44 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 10.15 per 90 minutes, the lowest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-The U.S. allowed 94 total shots at the 2014 World Cup, an average of 21.7 per 90 minutes, the highest average of the seven World Cup teams since 1990.

-According to the FIFA statistic “dangerous chances,” in the 2014 World Cup the USA trailed its opponents by a 248 to 131 margin through four games.
Click to expand...

I've responded to some of these statistics when you first posted them. Taken out of context, these numbers don't mean much.

U.S. scored within the first minute against Ghana and was fine yielding the lion's share of possession to the opposition. U.S. also played a group stage game against Germany who, by all accounts, is among the very best squads at retaining possession, ever. Two games out of a sample of 4 is going to have a disproportionate impact on the averages you arrive at.

Passing accuracy and number of passes have steadily risen over the course of the last two decades. It'd be the same as comparing work rate numbers from today versus ones from 20 years ago. The idea that midfielders can cover more than 10km a game was unthinkable in the late 90s, yet here we are.
 
O

Osorio

Member
Ugh this hangover is gonna paralyze me into tomorrow

If any of Metro-Gaf does NOT hate DC you can start by watching highlights of the second leg of the 2012 east semifinals

watch it and let your blood boil
 
C

Cornballer

Member
NE Starting XI: Shuttleworth; Tierney, Goncalves (c), Soares, Farrell; Caldwell, Jones; Rowe, Nguyen, Bunbury; Davies #NERevs #CLBvNE

Your #Crew96 Starting XI vs. #NERevs: Clark; Jimenez, Parkhurst ©, Wahl, Francis; Finlay, Trapp, Tchani, Meram; Higuaín; Schoenfeld.
 
S

sazabirules

Unconfirmed Member
It doesn't look like a good turnout. :( Is the OSU game affecting the attendance?

I must have missed Kamara being signed by Columbus.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Hasphat'sAnts said:
I've responded to some of these statistics when you first posted them. Taken out of context, these numbers don't mean much.
Click to expand...

You actually didn't respond to "some of these statistics" at all. This was your response:

Hasphat'sAnts said:
Out of a 4 game sample size against the likes of Belgium, Ghana, Germany, and Portugal.

Would not put much stock into these statistics.
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Which some statistics did you consider simply listing our opponents a response to?

I said two of those four had all sorts of issues at the World Cup and you didn't respond:

Portugal was missing a few regular starters due to injury, plus Pepe was suspended after his red card, and Ronaldo was playing at 60%.
Ghana was having all sorts of internal problems, physically fighting with each other, Muntari and Boateng being thrown off the team in the middle of the tournament, and the players almost quitting the team until their federation delivered $3 million in cash to pay them.
Click to expand...

Beyond that, the US played plenty of quality teams in the previous six World Cups. Were the 2002 opponents (Germany, South Korea, Mexico, Portugal, Poland) pushovers? Champions Italy, Ghana and Czech Republic in 2006? Germany and Yugoslavia? Colombia and Brazil?
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Goool de Charlie Davies. Goool de [Estados Unidos]. I miss hearing that, what could have been in 2010 if Davies, Holden, and Onyewu didn't get injured...

edit: and Jones actually, he was already going to play for the US but had that bad ankle injury before the World Cup.
 
N

ngower

Member
While the pace has dropped a little bit in the past few minutes, this Crew v Revs game has had a really solid tempo. Plenty of options on either bench to really change this game.
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Both these teams need the exact same thing to improve further, a high quality forward up front (I know Davies has done well recently)....
 
H

Hasphat'sAnts

Member
xbhaskarx said:
You actually didn't respond to "some of these statistics" at all. This was your response:



Which some statistics did you consider simply listing our opponents a response to?

I said two of those four had all sorts of issues at the World Cup and you didn't respond:



Hasphat'sAnts said:
2.) Ghana was the first game of the tournament, so unless you believe that the internal problems happened the moment they landed in Brazil, U.S.A. probably played them at their best. And for all its internal problems, Ghana was still good enough to take a 2-2 draw off of Germany. Just in case anyone had forgotten.
Click to expand...

Please. Read.


xbhaskarx said:
Beyond that, the US played plenty of quality teams in the previous six World Cups. Were the 2002 opponents (Germany, South Korea, Mexico, Portugal, Poland) pushovers? Champions Italy, Ghana and Czech Republic in 2006? Germany and Yugoslavia? Colombia and Brazil?
Click to expand...

Let's run them through, shall we?

1990: Not worth discussing
1994: Gets host nation bump. Colombia quality team but loses to Romania as well as the U.S. can't be too impressed.
1998: Old and slow Germany gets taken apart my Croatia in quarters, probably should've lost to Mexico in the Ro16 anyway
2002: Great run, no complaints
2006: Collapses against average Czech Republic, Ghana. Italy match great, but even then the only reason we drew was due to an own goal from Zaccardo.
2010: England, Slovenia, Algeria. Speaks for itself.

Compared to this juggernaut Germany squad with the highest ELO rating ever recorded in world football? Yes, they're pushovers.

Plus, you didn't address my point about how tactical emphasis had changed over the course.
Click to expand...
 
X

xbhaskarx

Member
Columbus Crew
G Matt Lampson
D Emanuel Pogatetz
D Eric Gehrig
M Bernardo Anor
M Kevan George
M Ben Speas
F Jairo Arrieta

New England Revolution
G Brad Knighton
D Kevin Alston
D Darrius Barnes
M Daigo Kobayashi
M Steve Neumann
F Diego Fagundez
F Patrick Mullins
Click to expand...

I'm not nearly as familiar with Columbus, but not many of the guys on their bench look like they could come in and really change the game compared to the players the Revs could potentially bring on if they were trailing. Maybe Arrieta or Anor...
 
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