Benny wouldn't have done shit here.
We need a real fucking backline, not this patchwork shit we keep using. We also need a real DM, McCarty desperately needs a call up after this game. Lastly, Wood needs to go away and never come back.
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American Soccer |OT2| Party Like It's 1999.
- Thread starter Cystm
- Start date
Benny wouldn't have done shit here.
We need a real fucking backline, not this patchwork shit we keep using. We also need a real DM, McCarty desperately needs a call up after this game. Lastly, Wood needs to go away and never come back.
The Chosen One
Member
Okay time for Mexico to lose 4-1 to Argentina.
Yeah right. :lol
A Mexico loss would make me feel better, but knowing our luck they'll win 4-1 and look like World Killers.
Looks like the Sunderland curse continues uninterrupted. Yedlin should have stayed with Seattle another year or two to continue developing.
Yedlin fucked up the whole first half and is responsible for the give away that led to Brazil's first goal. His touches were not good. He was not good.
I agree with you on Zardes. In that he was pulled out before he could really do much.
We were shit and everyone looked shit.
Our one bright spot: Williams showed some ridiculous power, but given the circumstances, it's nothing to write home about
Dunno.
I feel we have a mental edge over them.
On form we lose though.
Yeah, we need consistency. We need a real back 4
hasn't been a great start for em.
We started better lol. Before it went wrong.
EDIT:
Yedlin was our only offense for the entire game. (not counting williams cause...yeah)
I mean, did anyone even send in a cross during the entire game? I can't remember.
He definitely had giveaways though. But on the goal, I blame Bedoya and Ream more. Obviously you dont want your MF to give the ball away, but what's the point in having defenders if they won't defend.
Yedlin had a lot of bad touches and bad decisions. There was a point early on, before the first goal, where Jozy played him through but instead of taking his run and a shot he tried to pass it off and turned it over. He desperately needs more minutes at the club level and never should have left Seattle. He's trying to do too much tricky shit instead of playing his game and running as fast as he can and crossing the ball. I had the same complaint about his performance in the last game too.
Yeah, his first touch was horrible. That slowed him. Then the pass was almost as bad. He could've been in on goal.
But thinking about it.
In 90 minutes can you name one player who had an offensive move? Not fully fashioned a chance, but just an offensive move. I really can't outside of yedlin. (not counting the goal since I don't feel it's indicative of anything. Unless he can do it consistently.)
A stat I'm more sure of is that Yedlin is the only player who beat someone. (johannson had a nice touch but couldn't really reach the ball afterwards I feel.)
There was that late Mix chance I guess. I forgot who played him in.
EDIT
Yeah definitely should've stayed in Seattle. No point in going to Europe and sitting on the bench.
The Chosen One
Member
Mexico up 1-0.
Mexico is winning the proxy war.
Mexico is winning the proxy war.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
¯\_(ツ
_/¯I don't think he would have done much either, but with the performance of the team there's no excuse whatsoever to not at least give him a CHANCE and see how he performed.
And yeah, we need a legit backline. We just kept losing possession, over and over. Nobody was making any runs or providing support. It was just... bad.
Wait is it over?
Doug McIntyre ‏@DougMacESPN 7m
Bedoya: "I've never really played that position as a professional." #USAvBRA #usmnt
¯_(ツ
No time like... the last friendly before our biggest game since the Workd Cup, to start?
Cornballer
Member
Ooof, tough game tonight. Worst part of it was that guys seemed to give up. Klinsmann's tactics + unmotivated players is a recipe for disaster.
- Grant Wahl: Poor effort, surprise experimentation mark USA's 4-1 loss to Brazil
- MLS Analyst: More experimentation but no answers for Jurgen Klinsmann's USMNT in loss to Brazil
- Kyle McCarthy: Brazil punish lackluster USMNT ahead of Confederations Cup playoff
EDIT:
- Jeff Carlisle: United States midfield experiment goes awry in Brazil loss
- Grant Wahl: Poor effort, surprise experimentation mark USA's 4-1 loss to Brazil
- MLS Analyst: More experimentation but no answers for Jurgen Klinsmann's USMNT in loss to Brazil
- Kyle McCarthy: Brazil punish lackluster USMNT ahead of Confederations Cup playoff
EDIT:
- Jeff Carlisle: United States midfield experiment goes awry in Brazil loss
I mean, if I thought he'd make any sort of difference I'd say bring him in but I can't say I see much point in bringing someone new if they aren't going to last until Russia.
The backline was probably our biggest problem, they kept getting torn apart. We need to find 4-6 guys and just stick with them. After that it was Yedlin not seeing any reliable club time, which isn't going to be fixed by this loan, and Zardes was isolated too easily.
Also, I'd like to see Zardes make more attacking runs into the box. I feel like he could take Donovan's old role of being the insurance run into the box.
Maybe guys like Feilhaber and Nguyen should have been given more than a combined 45 minutes over the last two years? Who knows if either is part of the solution, but we'd probably have a better idea one way or the other if they had been given a chance.
Instead the team hasn't had a consistent chance creator since Klinsmann ran off Donovan...
I disagree with the first point. We need to be able to get a team together that can even QUALIFY for Russia. If Benny can help us do that, he needs to be in the lineup.
Also, I agree that our backline is our biggest problem. If we don't start Gonzales and Besler (or Cameron) against Mexico, I officially have no idea what Klinsmann is doing. That game is a big one, and we need to be able to win it. We need established dudes back there that can trust one another.
Pretty much. It doesn't help when your team is being dispossessed all the time.
Well that was fucking awful.
Alright, this shit is getting ridiculous.
¯\_(ツ
Alright, this shit is getting ridiculous.
Cornballer
Member
Cornballer
Member
Out of curiosity, I compiled the backlines used this calendar year:
Here's the minutes for outfield players in 2015, too:
Code:
Chile Birnbaum Jones Besler (Yedlin & Shea @ wingers in a 3-5-2)
Panama Shea Jones Besler Shea
Denmark Chandler Orozco Brooks Garza
Switz Chandler Orozco Brooks Shea
Mexico Yedlin Gonzalez Alvarado Garza
Nether Chandler Alvarado Brooks Shea
Germ Chandler Alvarado Brooks Johnson
Guat Chandler Gonzalez Brooks Johnson
Hond Chandler Alvarado Brooks Johnson
Haiti Evans Gonzalez Ream Garza
Panama Chandler Alvarado Brooks Johnson
Cuba Chandler Gonzalez Alvarado Johnson
Jam Evans Alvarado Brooks Johnson
Panama Chandler Gonzalez Brooks Ream
Peru Orozco Gonzalez Brooks Ream
Brazil Cameron Orozco Alvarado ReamHere's the minutes for outfield players in 2015, too:
Code:
Player Pos GP GS Min. G A Pts
Bradley, M M 14 14 1290 3 5 11
Zardes, Gyasi F 14 11 1045 2 4 8
Guzan, Brad GK 10 10 930 0 0 0
Brooks, John D 10 10 872 1 0 2
Yedlin, DeAndre D 14 6 782 0 3 3
Chandler, Tim D 9 9 766 1 2 4
Alvarado, Ven D 11 7 731 0 0 0
Johnson, Fab M 10 9 705 0 2 2
Dempsey, Clint F 9 7 703 9 0 18
Johannsson, A F 9 7 607 2 1 5
Altidore, Jozy F 8 8 536 4 1 9
Diskerud, Mix M 9 6 536 1 1 3
Beckerman, Kyle M 8 6 468 0 0 0
Gonzalez, Omar D 6 6 450 1 0 2
Shea, Brek M 6 4 416 2 0 4
Bedoya, Ale M 6 6 402 0 1 1
Ream, Tim D 5 3 332 0 0 0
Rimando, Nick GK 5 5 315 0 0 0
Evans, Brad M 6 2 310 0 1 1
Morales, Alf M 6 3 280 0 0 0
Jones, Jermaine M 3 3 251 0 0 0
Garza, Greg D 4 3 246 0 0 0
Wondolowski F 6 2 220 1 0 2
Orozco D 4 3 214 0 0 0
Corona, Joe M 3 2 210 0 0 0
Besler, Matt D 3 2 208 0 1 1
Zusi, Graham M 4 3 198 0 0 0
Wood, Bobby F 4 2 158 2 0 4
Ibarra, Miguel M 2 1 123 0 0 0
Morris, Jordan F 4 1 104 1 1 3
Williams, Dan M 3 1 92 1 0 2
Birnbaum, St D 1 1 90 0 0 0
Yarbrough, W GK 2 0 90 0 0 0
Agudelo, Juan F 2 1 71 1 0 2
Nguyen, Lee M 2 0 57 0 0 0
Kitchen, Perry D 2 0 47 0 0 0
Geoff Cameron D 1 0 45 0 0 0
Johnson, Sean GK 1 0 45 0 0 0
Trapp, Wil M 1 0 31 0 0 0
Beasley, D D 1 0 30 0 0 0
Rubin, Rubio F 1 0 24 0 0 0
Hedges, Matt D 1 0 19 0 0 0
Gordon, Alan F 1 0 18 0 0 0
Gil, Luis M 1 0 10 0 0 0I didn't see any of the game last night other than a few minutes early on. Sounds like that was fortunate. Not exactly the kind of tune up you'd like.. hopefully we can have something approaching a full strength team versus Mexico.
Whatever the case may be, the rotating back four is just destroying any semblance of cohesiveness.
Whatever the case may be, the rotating back four is just destroying any semblance of cohesiveness.
ActStriker
Member
DC defender
Don't stoop to that level.
I've said it before, these young players need someone to talk to sense into them and help them realize that the "Best league in the World" doesn't equal the best place for every player.
Brian Sciaretta: U.S. Seeks a Way Forward After Brazil Bashing
The concerning thing about Tuesday night's 4-1 defeat to Brazil wasn't that the Americans lost, it was how they did so. We've seen this movie over and over again, and it always ends the same way.
This guy is f***ing insane.... you literally can't believe a single statement that comes out of his mouth.
TV Azteca can't possibly troll us any worse than Klinsmann already is...
R.e. Tim Ream and Geoff Cameron being Central Defenders. Over the past few years, Ream has played notably more games as a Left Back than as a Center Back. Additionally, prior to this season, Geoff Cameron had played 96 out of 99 league games for Stoke as a RB.
So it's a little disingenuous to characterize this as playing CBs as Fullbacks.
So it's a little disingenuous to characterize this as playing CBs as Fullbacks.
Ream does fine at left back, the issue he had this game was that everyone he was up against was faster and stronger than he is. Against Brazil he got rocked, against Peru he looked solid. Unless he can figure out how to deal with speed he won't be a 100% starter, but I feel like he can more than handle Mexico.
We're just in a situation right now where we need a dependable starting 11 and a standard formation. Part of our problem is we're never using the same 11 and we never use the same formation. We need to nail down 11 starters and one main formation, with a backup that covers it's weaknesses (personally I'd go with the 4-4(diamond)-2 and the 4-3-3 as we had our best results with those). I feel like that's part of what having an identity means. We never play the same way twice and that's a huge issue.
But when Cameron played RB for all those games, Klinsmann consistently called him in at CB and not RB, now that he plays a CB, Klinsmann calls him in at RB. The bottom line is he plays players out of position consistently, so is that really disingenuous?
What about Yedlin who has played one game for his club, getting more games for our national team than everyone else in the pool since the World Cup, is that disingenuous?
What about Klinsmann saying he wasn't going to experiment against Brazil and then playing Bedoya in a position he's never played before as a professional, is that disingenuous?
What about Klinsmann calling in random guys from the 2.Bundesliga like Wood and Wooten, and an amateur Jordan Morris who put up mediocre numbers in college soccer, when MLS players (aside from Alan Gordon) have to wait until January camp to get a chance?
It's sort of disingenuous to quibble with minor aspects of the criticism of Klinsmann while selectively ignoring all the other batshit insane stuff he does on a regular basis...
I am only pointing out that this article is acting like he's throwing two random guys at fullback when this is where they play professionally generally speaking. Pep Guardiola plays guys "out of position" in a spot where they've never played before all the time to varying degrees of success.. some coaches like to see how effective a guy is elsewhere so that they can possibly maximize the quality that is available.
I didn't see the game to comment personally, but by all accounts Bedoya at holding midfielder was a failure. So we'll move on from that option -- that is what friendlies are for by and large. He wanted to see if he could use him there for the game that mattered, and obviously he can't.
There's absolutely no question that Brian Sciaretta has an axe to grind with Klinsmann, and framing an argument like this:
is frankly going to cause me to not take you seriously. It shows that he's twisting facts. One bad ingredient can spoil a dish.
I don't agree with his selections all the time and I personally do think you're right that Feilhaber and Nguyen are being overlooked where they shouldn't be (although has Nguyen done anything this year? He seems like a total non-entity this season), but the reality is that if an American guy is in MLS, it's because that's his level of quality. He'd be elsewhere if he was better.
No coach will ever take an MLS player seriously in comparison to a player who is playing abroad. And honestly, they really shouldn't. Just as players who do well in basketball, baseball and football abroad are overlooked, so will be guys playing soccer here. If you're playing in a league that is nowhere near the level of quality as others, your successes are far less impressive or noteworthy. The major difference here is that Americans aren't used to the sports they participate in not having the top league.
R.e. Jordan Morris. He's obviously a very unique case, but JK obviously sees him as an important player for the future so he likes him around the team so that he can train with them when possible -- this is a common practice for young players with national teams. It seems like he feels the same about Yedlin and he wants to actually get him games in general to help his long term development. In reality, there is probably also an element of doubling down on his part though because he doesn't want Yedlin to be a poster child for NOT leaving MLS.
The Chosen One
Member
In all the soccer forums I read/participate in, Klinsmann is getting torn apart. Even the usual Klinsi supporters have been silent.
Yes some of it is just reactionary. But it seems a lot of people have finally lost patience/confidence in Klinsmann. We were playing Brazil and it always was going to be a challenge, especially if Neymar took the field. But instead of looking like a regional power, Brazil made us look like a third rate Caribbean team. If this was January this type of loss wouldn't have been so bad, but this is following the Gold Cup and in preparation for a huge match against Mexico in a month. The lack of any chemistry and the constant experimentation is disturbing at this point.
Watching the Mexico v. Argentina game, I was jealous. Mexico has its problems as well for sure and they're also in the middle of a coaching change. But they looked so much better than us against a similar opponent. They played at a level that I expected us to be at by now.
If Mexico beats the US by more than a 2 goal margin, it's really hard for me to see Klinsmann keeping his job. I don't care how well connected he is, the public uproar will be too big too ignore. The problem will be finding a suitable replacement. Maybe hiring a famed South American coach like the middle eastern countries do would help us get over the hump.
Yes some of it is just reactionary. But it seems a lot of people have finally lost patience/confidence in Klinsmann. We were playing Brazil and it always was going to be a challenge, especially if Neymar took the field. But instead of looking like a regional power, Brazil made us look like a third rate Caribbean team. If this was January this type of loss wouldn't have been so bad, but this is following the Gold Cup and in preparation for a huge match against Mexico in a month. The lack of any chemistry and the constant experimentation is disturbing at this point.
Watching the Mexico v. Argentina game, I was jealous. Mexico has its problems as well for sure and they're also in the middle of a coaching change. But they looked so much better than us against a similar opponent. They played at a level that I expected us to be at by now.
If Mexico beats the US by more than a 2 goal margin, it's really hard for me to see Klinsmann keeping his job. I don't care how well connected he is, the public uproar will be too big too ignore. The problem will be finding a suitable replacement. Maybe hiring a famed South American coach like the middle eastern countries do would help us get over the hump.
Perhaps it's time to accept that what someone like Pep Guardiola does is completely irrelevant here, because he is a talented coach who knows what he's doing whereas Klinsmann is completely incompetent at almost every aspect of his job aside from recruitment.
For example Caleb Porter had Yedlin at Akron and has said numerous times that he has the potential to be a great fullback but will never be more than an average winger. Porter is pretty far from being Guardiola but at least he has some clue about these things... Klinsmann's has no plan in terms of his experimentation with players, positions, or formations, he just throws a bunch of shit at the wall to see what sticks, and really doesn't learn many lessons from that, either.
Well Kinsmann said he wasn't going to experiment with the lineup going into the game, and then he tried Bedoya as a holding midfielder, which makes it just the latest data point for "nothing Klinsmann says has any meaning."
Also it wasn't just some random friendly where experimentation might make sense, it was the final friendly before our biggest game. So now what is he going to do against Mexico in less than a month? Probably make even more crazy moves with no rhyme or reason to them, because he's Klinsmann and that's what he does.
Someone noted that Bedoya has 3 starts in central midfield this year and hasn't played more than 45 minutes in any of them... so what lessons is Klinsmann learning exactly? I mean who in their right mind would even bother trying Bedoya back there last night?? You really wanted to see that? He could put Gonzalez as the #10 and you'd make the same excuse for him, "Well you'll never know unless you try."
What axe does Brian Sciaretta have to grind against Klinsmann? That's what Klinsmann defenders say about Matt Doyle as well... So are there any intelligent American soccer writers out there who follow the US national team closely and are NOT conspiring against Klinsmann? Maybe the problem is Klinsmann and not everyone else?
Klinsmann can fuck up in a dozen ways but if someone mischaracterizes even a minor aspect of their criticism, we're supposed to just dismiss the whole thing? Why are we holding writers for websites to standards that are so much higher than Klinsmann, who apparently can get away with pretty much anything?
Okay, I'm not even going to bother discussing this with you further... this level of Eurodouchebaggery is too much for me to handle.
Who needs loser MLSers like Landon Donovan and Benny Feilhaber when you have Euro stars like Julian Green and Andrew Wooten!
More shitty American sawker teams being announced... not sure how we can compete with CONCACAF powerhouses like Jamaica and Panama when our players are in such inferior environments
Reno Awarded Expansion USL Franchise
USL attracting billionaire owners, not bad... and Sacramento Republic fans finally have a reasonable road trip...
Reno Awarded Expansion USL Franchise
USL attracting billionaire owners, not bad... and Sacramento Republic fans finally have a reasonable road trip...
Their audience is made up of MLS fans. Klinsmann has been dismissive of the league, and so if you're a writer whose sole audience are fans of MLS, it makes sense to be negative about him. It's how you drive traffic which is the only thing that matters to online sources.
I'm sorry that reality doesn't fit your agenda.
The Chosen One
Member
That article says the USL is one step below the MLS. Isn't the USL still considered the 3rd tier league in the US after the NASL? I don't think the USL has the official 2nd division status yet.
The thing is, what American LB wouldn't be outclassed by that Brazilian attack? Even Fabian Johnson (if he was available) is a rung below those players talent wise.
It's easy to criticise Klinsmann for doing something like playing Zardes out of position - even though Bruce Arena has had him playing on the wing all season for LA Galaxy - but no one is saying names when it comes to suggesting a quality winger in the player pool who people think should be playing there instead.
That said, I feel that Klinsmann needs to come out and give his justification for the selection he made.
Half serious/half joke post: Sam Allardyce is available.
He was probably the first coach in Europe to buy into analytics and he's better tactically than people give him credit for. His teams are always physically robust and defensively disciplined... and it would be funny because the likes of Lalas and Twellman would hate him even more than the German who is currently in charge.
I feel like Zardes' future is on the wing. He's much better there than he is up top.