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Americans Now Evenly Divided on Impeaching Trump
- Thread starter LordOfLore
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Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Trump isn't pushing for or against anything Pence wouldn't. There was some stupid fantasy during the campaign that Trump would govern to the left on a bunch of issues and give the GOP fits.
Instead he's allowing for every far right-wing wet dream policy with the added bonus of being comically but dangerously ill-tempered, inept and corrupt. At least with Pence you'd get basic rationality and stability along with the same shit policies.
Pence is the guy you completely neuter with a Democratic wave in 2018. He'd also be weak right out of the gate since he was effectively no ones choice for President.
Trump is the kind of guy you throw out of office as soon as is humanly possible.
gutter_trash
Banned
Trump's foreign affairs are way more dangerous than generic Republicans
RPGCrazied
Member
Yep, but we need to start with the head clown at the top. Listening to him speak is like nails on a chalkboard.
I used to agree. But Trump is proving to be LITERALLY insane.
Pence is evil, but would not be yelling at the press, business, foreign leaders, tv shows, etc. on Twitter whenever his feelings got hurt. Plus, Pence doesn't have the cult followers that Trump does.
Sounds like you took part in the DeVos pilot program for education.
Trump is a flailing toddler throwing a tantrum while trying to convince the adults he doesn't belong at the kids' table.
Pence is a wolf in sheep's clothing, patiently waiting for the right time to execute his agenda.
Both are dangerous for different reasons.
What Pence has over Trump is that he knows how government works. He knows how to act professional. He isn't a lunatic egomaniac. He would be a better face for the country when dealing with other world leaders.
Pence is a wolf in sheep's clothing, patiently waiting for the right time to execute his agenda.
Both are dangerous for different reasons.
What Pence has over Trump is that he knows how government works. He knows how to act professional. He isn't a lunatic egomaniac. He would be a better face for the country when dealing with other world leaders.
IceDoesntHelp
Banned
Whats worse Trump or Pence?
Oppo
Member
Listen, Trump is pushing forth some awful policies in some awful manners, but not liking a candidate doesn't make them "impeachable".
There would need to be more concrete allegations coming from his ties to Russia, the sexual assault allegations, or him not divorcing himself from his business ties to necessitate this. Something can absolutely be there in time, but I don't think there is a case yet, and I don't think people should entertain the notion just because of his shit policy.
There would need to be more concrete allegations coming from his ties to Russia, the sexual assault allegations, or him not divorcing himself from his business ties to necessitate this. Something can absolutely be there in time, but I don't think there is a case yet, and I don't think people should entertain the notion just because of his shit policy.
Laevateinn
Member
Pence may be more evil and dangerous but if Trump is successfully impeached the whole party's brand collapses. That's why republicans are all in on him. If they admit that he's insane or investigate anything they are all fucked.
TheOctodad
Member
Regardless of if he gets impeached or not, this is interesting data. For all of the "protest and being vocal isn't going to win people over" that seems to be incorrect.
Obviously you're not going to win over the entrenched people with opposing views. But there's an entire middle ground that is willing to shift and it seems like they are. People who were more "I don't care about politics, both sides, etc." are realizing that such sentiments are not always applicable - especially here. This is the group that is tilting and needs to continue to do so if Trump is to be defeated.
Obviously you're not going to win over the entrenched people with opposing views. But there's an entire middle ground that is willing to shift and it seems like they are. People who were more "I don't care about politics, both sides, etc." are realizing that such sentiments are not always applicable - especially here. This is the group that is tilting and needs to continue to do so if Trump is to be defeated.
Holy Order Sol
Member
lmfao
ATXAlchemy
Member
I did in Michigan. I took a picture because I wanted to record voting for the first woman president
Well, if Ivanka Trump runs to continue her father's legacy, you might still get your chance for a picture.
Mister_Bubbles
Member
I know very little about American politics, and I imagine what I'm going to suggest is unprecedented and crazy but...
The common argument being made against impeaching Trump seems to be that Pence would be even worse, because he's a calculated psychopath rather than the more ignorant sociopath that Trump appears to be. If that turns out to be the case, would the same issues not still apply and he could damn well be impeached as well? Drain the swamp, as it were? Or is the worry that the nation wouldn't be whipped up into enough of a frenzy a second time around to get the fuel to do it?
The common argument being made against impeaching Trump seems to be that Pence would be even worse, because he's a calculated psychopath rather than the more ignorant sociopath that Trump appears to be. If that turns out to be the case, would the same issues not still apply and he could damn well be impeached as well? Drain the swamp, as it were? Or is the worry that the nation wouldn't be whipped up into enough of a frenzy a second time around to get the fuel to do it?
TheOctodad
Member
Yes, but I also have a ton of friends that didn't vote, or barely got out to vote but didn't really take it seriously.
All of them are having remorse about that approach. ALL OF THEM.
You're not going to see someone who went full Trump just change their mind over these last few weeks. It's the other's that are changing.
I think he is far too unprofessional and has far too many glaring conflicts of interest. He shouldn't have even been a contender. His personal actions are entirely inappropriate.
Why was Bill Clinton going to be impeached? For a blow job? For lying to the public?
Trump has blatantly lied at every opportunity concerning the pettiest shit that is easily contradicted. If he lies about that he lies about way more important shit.
Plenty of reasons to impeach him.
PadWarrior
Member
I'll take Pence in a heartbeat.
Polls were wrong, therefore, polls are always wrong.
You honestly believe there is something Pence would desperately like to do but Trump is the only thing standing in his way? The guy who doesn't even read the orders he signs?
Ploid 3.0
Member
I just blame the Electoral College, they had one job and they just put their decision on autopilot. They could clearly see this guy wasn't fit for the job, especially his actions after winning the election.
It's science!
Atom Heart Mother
Banned
I don't think Pence is an evil person. He seems to be way more level headed and open than someone like Trump. He'd probably make a boring/crummy president, but nothing crazy like Trump.
The Horror the horror
Banned
The man is unfit to rule.
He has no experience; he doesn't possess the temperament, discipline, attitude, or even the intelligence to govern anything much less an entire country.
It's not about not "liking" his policies; the man isn't a leader.
Pence will do bullshit but he won't be as reckless as Trump but likely more effective. Seeing as he will tow the party line but angle for reelection it would be 6 of one half dozen of another type of scenario.
But what if Hillary got her period during a terrorist attack???
Well, see, here is the fucking problem: presidents don't rule, they govern.
Trump clearly doesn't understand that.
Maintenance
Member
Trump is Chaotic Evil, Pence is Lawful Evil.
UnemployedVillain
Member
If only there were some sort of electorial process that pit her against Trump...
Extra Sauce
Member
Republicans controlling all aspects of congress are going to hand-wave all of that stuff as trivial or "growing pains" for his new role.
If the Democrats as a whole tried to push this forward at this point they would just be painted as obstructionist and it would preemptively invalidate in future attempts if some undeniably bad shit really came out.
Protestors/Democrats need to keep up the vocal pressure, but I don't think people should be putting the cart before the horse by trying to do impeachment measures at this point. Not yet, anyway.
PixelatedBookake
Junior Member
I don't understand this obsession with impeaching Trump. Yes, Trump is one of the worst things to happen to America, but I feel his fragile baby ego and stupidity is making himself and everyone who supports him (the GOP) look so incompetent, he shouldn't be able to get elected again. If Pence became President, he'd follow through with Bannon and Ryan's wishes without making a scene on social media and get away with it. If Pence becomes President and does a better job, it restores good will to the GOP because they (the Republican Senate and House) would take responsibility for kicking him out and even if we have a Democratic controlled legislative branch by then, Republicans would frame us as the bad guys and turn Trump into a martyr for his supporters. I think if the Dems do win House and Senate and impeach Trump, we'd be falling into their plan of making Pence look better than Trump by hiding all of his bullshit better.
Except polls were largely correct. She did beat him in percentages.
I should have spell checked before I posted guh fat thumbs
I get what you are saying, but the impeachment process takes a long time to ramp up. We need to put things in motion, it will certainly rattle him and cause him to implode.
RumblingRosco
Member
Trump is Chaotic Evil. Pence is Lawful Evil (eh, maybe Tempered Evil). I'd take Pence.
That's OK. Bill Vlinton does sound like a badass name for a Die Hard villain.
Before he took office, I would have said Pence. Trump at least had some curveballs ready and there was a distant hope he might break from the GOP on some things per his campaign promises.
Now it's clear that Trump is pretty easy to talk into taking extreme right wing stances, with the side bonus of being dangerously inept. Gay rights is one of the few things Pence would swing further right on, and I worry there, but at the same time I think he's less likely to do something truly horrific on a whim or start an international incident, or worse...
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Bannon would be gone. Most of the Trump inner circle and cabinet would be gone. Ryan is tied up in knots over Obamacare due to fundamental logical contradictions regardless of the president.
I've actually started looking at the numbers behind these polls and there's always something neat...
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_21017.pdf
Page 14... if you voted for Hilary you pretty much support impeaching Trump, if you voted for Trump you oppose.
Page 10, if you voted for Hilary or Stein, you disapprove of Trump, if you voted for Trump you still approve of him.
In other news, 95% of those polled believe Water is wet!
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2017/PPP_Release_National_21017.pdf
Page 14... if you voted for Hilary you pretty much support impeaching Trump, if you voted for Trump you oppose.
Page 10, if you voted for Hilary or Stein, you disapprove of Trump, if you voted for Trump you still approve of him.
In other news, 95% of those polled believe Water is wet!
The polls never said this. Right before the election they said it was close.
If this is the same poll data Rachel Maddow was talking about last night......more people want Trump as president than Pence!
Correct on all accounts. There's essentially zero possibility of DJT getting impeached while the GOP has control. Even if Dem voters somehow get off their lazy asses and vote in 2018, there's still little chance of Dem politicians pushing for impeachment.
Less to do with DJT winning over Rubio, and more to do with party loyalty.
clockworkinyou
Banned
I have hope, but if there was a Senate hearing, the GOP wouldn't do anything.
I keep seeing right-wing people post an image from HuffPo of a poll where Clinton had a 99% chance of winning.
Never mind that HuffPo is very left-wing.
fredrancour
Member
pence is more likely to weaken social safety nets and regulations , and to strive for opportunities to perform religiously-motivated persecution within the bounds of the law, and less likely to do things like antagonize foreign leaders just because he doesn't know how to carry a functional conversation or sign unconstitutional executive orders pretty much immediately after entering office. Pence probably wouldn't do anything impeachable, he'd just spend his presidency making life worse for anyone outside the usual republican demographic of rich culturally-christian white dudes.
there's layers of counterarguments from there:
"Trump's administration would do anything pence would do , we don't gain anything by having a less-skilled schemer in charge! Also Bannon!"
"Trump is actually less harmful because his administration would spend the next two years panicking!"
"Trump could still try to start a war for no damn reason by pissing countries off even if congress flipped completely"
quite the conundrum.
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