Support NeoGAF

[VivaciousSoul]

I suspect the only way that the republicans turn against Trump is if the harm that it causes them outweighs everything else. How high does the price of sticking with Trump have to get before it isn't worth it anymore?

Is it not being elected to another term? The opposition would have to ensure that there are no doubts about it. The reps and senators couldn't think I'll stick by Trump and still get elected.

Is it violence to them and theirs? I never would like to see violence come to anybody but it arguably is slow motion violence that they are inflicting on millions. There are many willing to go much further than I would ever be willing to go.

Is it destruction to America? This is something that would have to be seen before it's too late. It could be too late tomorrow. The speed at which an uninformed decision ricochets and rebounds can be devastatingly overwhelming.

Regardless an impeachment will be the result of harm/threat of harm (not specifically physical) coming to republicans in congress.

 

[Felix Lighter]

I suspect the only way that the republicans turn against Trump is if the harm that it causes them outweighs everything else. How high does the price of sticking with Trump have to get before it isn't worth it anymore?

Is it not being elected to another term? The opposition would have to ensure that there are no doubts about it. The reps and senators couldn't think I'll stick by Trump and still get elected.

Is it violence to them and theirs? I never would like to see violence come to anybody but it arguably is slow motion violence that they are inflicting on millions. There are many willing to go much further than I would ever be willing to go.

Is it destruction to America? This is something that would have to be seen before it's too late. It could be too late tomorrow. The speed at which an uninformed decision ricochets and rebounds can be devastatingly overwhelming.

Regardless an impeachment will be the result of harm/threat of harm (not specifically physical) coming to republicans in congress.

The only poll most Republicans in Congress are concerned with is what percentage of Republican primary voters want to see Trump impeached and I can tell you, it would take some pretty horrific events for that poll to tip past 50%.

 

[sangreal]

Impeached just because they don't like him or did he commit "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors"?

I'm curious if 46% of the country even know what impeachment entails.

"high crimes or misdemeanors" refers to the higher standard people in high positions should be held to over regular people. It doesn't mean serious crimes

We just had a thread on this, but I again I will point to Andrew Johnson whose Articles of Impeachment included the 'high misdemeanor' of telling people congress sucks

That said Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, unmindful of the high duties of his office and the dignity and proprieties thereof, and of the harmony and courtesies which ought to exist and be maintained between the executive and legislative branches of the Government of the United States, designing and intending to set aside the rightful authorities and powers of Congress, did attempt to bring into disgrace, ridicule, hatred, contempt and reproach the Congress of the United States, and the several branches thereof, to impair and destroy the regard and respect of all the good people of the United States for the Congress and legislative power thereof, (which all officers of the government ought inviolably to preserve and maintain,) and to excite the odium and resentment of all good people of the United States against Congress and the laws by it duly and constitutionally enacted; and in pursuance of his said design and intent, openly and publicly and before divers assemblages of citizens of the United States, convened in divers parts thereof, to meet and receive said Andrew Johnson as the Chief Magistrate of the United States, did, on the 18th day of August, in the year of our Lord 1866, and on divers other days and times, as well before as afterward, make and declare, with a loud voice certain intemperate, inflammatory, and scandalous harangues, and therein utter loud threats and bitter menaces, as well against Congress as the laws of the United States duly enacted thereby, amid the cries, jeers and laughter of the multitudes then assembled in hearing, which are set forth in the several specifications hereinafter written, in substance and effect, that it to say:

...

Which said utterances, declarations, threats and harangues, highly censurable in any, are peculiarly indecent and unbecoming in the Chief Magistrate of the United States, by means whereof the said Andrew Johnson has brought the high office of the President of the United States into contempt, ridicule and disgrace, to the great scandal of all good citizens, whereby said Andrew Johnson, President of the United States, did commit, and was then and there guilty of a high misdemeanor in office.

 

[SerTapTap]

This is pretty pathetic.

What the fuck. These people genuinely do not operate in objective reality. Fuck anyone who says we have to appeal to or appease these cretins.

 

[Bellamin]

PPP's new national poll finds

Yeah, we're done here. PPP's polling methods leave a lot to be desired.

 

[Ac30]

If voters could choose they'd rather have both Barack Obama (52/44) or Hillary Clinton (49/45) instead of Trump.

I blame every single lazy fucker who stayed at home and those Bernie or Buster assholes. Fuck them all.

Wasn't the vote split 48-45 though? This isn't new per se.

And really only 51% want Barry back? Goddamn

 

[Dirca]

Impeached just because they don't like him or did he commit "treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors"?

I'm curious if 46% of the country even know what impeachment entails.

This. Everyone here seems to forget Bill Clinton was impeached. If there's a valid reason for him to be impeached, he may very well stay in office.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

I hate Pence but I would take him over Trump in a nanosecond.

 

[Atomic Playboy]

I hate Pence but I would take him over Trump in a nanosecond.

Yeah, at least Pence is predictable. With Trump, you have no idea what to expect; we may be at war with Peru before the day is out. I'll take predictable evil over chaotic evil any day.

 

[CrispyBoar]

Dems take Congress in '18, Trump ousted in '19. Pence/Ryan lose to Warren/Sanders in '20.

Leggo.

That is what's going to happen.

 

[zeemumu]

Wait, really? That's pretty cringe if true.

Yeah it's true. I caught an episode not too long ago.

 

[RedHill]

Dude's not getting impeached. Let it go. Focus your anger for 2018 and 2020.

Oh my god shut up. That's exactly how he doesn't get impeached.

 

[Shake Appeal]

Trump is rocking the boat. Regardless of the actual policies, just how active he has been in these first few weeks is throwing off politicians and constituents alike.

Trump is drilling holes in the boat.

 

[Emerson]

You're a straight up fucking fool if you think Pence is worse than Trump.

Despite fantasies otherwise Trump has demonstrated no willingness to support anything left-leaning. He is proposing things far and beyond whatever the right wing wants. Pence could not accomplish any worse.

Even if he could, the stakes with Trump are simply too high. Every day this moron is in power we are literally dicing with the fate of modern civilization and billions of lives. If you think that's exaggerated, then how about simply the fate of American democracy as we know it, as Trump continually undermines the legislative and judicial branches?

A change in abortion policy or whatever else for 8 years, while absolutely horrible, is simply no match for the stakes Trump is playing with. If it was entirely up to me for some reason I'd swap in Pence in an instant and sleep the best night's sleep I've had since the election.

 

[Phoenix RISING]

i feel like he hasn't said ***& about that since he got elected

Because he literally said lock her up sounds good for a soundbite but he was disinterested in doing any of that

 

[LizardKing]

Why the hell would you guys want a competent Republican in office? Much better this way. Trump is too inept to get as much shit done, his actions will enrage the country enough to destroy people's opinion of Republicans, much better chance of booting the party out of control in 4 years. I'll take that any day over a quiet run of the mill Republican who is going to work well with the rest of his party to quickly and efficiently fuck the country up with evil and shitty legislation. All while most of the country doesn't pay attention because "both parties are the same anyway." At least now people will notice they aren't.

You're a straight up fucking fool if you think Pence is worse than Trump.

Despite fantasies otherwise Trump has demonstrated no willingness to support anything left-leaning. He is proposing things far and beyond whatever the right wing wants. Pence could not accomplish any worse.

Even if he could, the stakes with Trump are simply too high. Every day this moron is in power we are literally dicing with the fate of modern civilization and billions of lives. If you think that's exaggerated, then how about simply the fate of American democracy as we know it, as Trump continually undermines the legislative and judicial branches?

A change in abortion policy or whatever else for 8 years, while absolutely horrible, is simply no match for the stakes Trump is playing with. If it was entirely up to me for some reason I'd swap in Pence in an instant and sleep the best night's sleep I've had since the election.

And then watch as Republican's seize control of the country for the next 20 years and quietly rule through voter apathy. Trump is better for Democrats. Trump will push more extreme and louder with his agenda. This will make the other side push harder back (as it is). You can't really get any worse than the modern Republican party and their rank and file members anyway.

 

[superdeluxe]

Among those who do support it you have to wonder how well thought out their position is- by a 51/23 margin Trump voters say that the Bowling Green Massacre shows why Trump's immigration policy is needed.

DAMN

 

[superdeluxe]

Why the hell would you guys want a competent Republican in office? Much better this way. Trump is too inept to get as much shit done, his actions will enrage the country enough to destroy people's opinion of Republicans, much better chance of booting the party out of control in 4 years. I'll take that any day over a quiet run of the mill Republican who is going to work well with the rest of his party to quickly and efficiently fuck the country up with evil and shitty legislation. All while most of the country doesn't pay attention because "both parties are the same anyway." At least now people will notice they aren't.

Because we want to actually make it to 2020. Trump is an irrational president.

 

[Ithil]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

Pence would be terrible. Trump is worse.

 

[LizardKing]

Because we want to actually make it to 2020. Trump is an irrational president.

I'm willing to take that risk of whatever consequences that entails if it helps Democrats take control in 2020. You guys thinking he's going to launch a nuke because of a tweet are just being ridiculous and paranoid. I mean I hope you guys don't seriously believe that, but with some on here you never know. He does have some checks. I'd rather take that risk than watch the country slowly and quietly decay into conservative cesspit.

 

[Dishwalla]

Oh my god shut up. That's exactly how he doesn't get impeached.

No, having Republican majority in Congress is how he doesn't get impeached.

But by all means, keep wasting your time and breath.

 

[superdeluxe]

I'm willing to take that risk of whatever consequences that entails if it helps Democrats take control in 2020. You guys thinking he's going to launch a nuke because of a tweet are just being ridiculous and paranoid. I mean I hope you guys don't seriously believe that, but with some one here you never know. He does have some checks. I'd rather take that risk than watch the country slowly and quietly decay into conservative cesspit.

You would be surprised how little checks he has with the nuclear football. Call me paranoid, but Trump is not a Rational actor in all of this.

 

[LizardKing]

You would be surprised how little checks he has with the nuclear football. Call me paranoid, but Trump is not a Rational actor in all of this.

There's nothing else to say other than you're being paranoid and just as irrational as Trump.

 

[Manmademan]

Why the hell would you guys want a competent Republican in office? Much better this way. Trump is too inept to get as much shit done, his actions will enrage the country enough to destroy people's opinion of Republicans, much better chance of booting the party out of control in 4 years. I'll take that any day over a quiet run of the mill Republican who is going to work well with the rest of his party to quickly and efficiently fuck the country up with evil and shitty legislation. All while most of the country doesn't pay attention because "both parties are the same anyway." At least now people will notice they aren't.



And then watch as Republican's seize control of the country for the next 20 years and quietly rule through voter apathy. Trump is better for Democrats. Trump will push more extreme and louder with his agenda. This will make the other side push harder back (as it is). You can't really get any worse than the modern Republican party and their rank and file members anyway.

This is where I'm at. Trump needs to stay exactly where he is, so moderates and liberals understand EXACTLY how shitty that entire party is when Senators, Congressmen and Governors of the GOP fall in line for his insanity anyway because "party unity"

 

[Ithil]

He really isn't. Pence is just quiet. He is much more evil though.

Pence has morals. They are quite reprehensible and loathsome morals, but he does have his set of beliefs he operates on.

Trump does not, he has no beliefs, no morals, no "code" or goals beyond instant gratification and ego stroking, and he is a complete idiot who knows nothing of running a country, he could barely run a business. What's more anything Pence would enact is already being enacted, but with the added incompetence, lack of dignity, instability and treachery (in the Russia connection) Trump brings, and the alt-right evil that Bannon brings.

Pence wouldn't be yelling SEE YOU IN COURT on twitter, trying and failing to strongarm world leaders, whining about crowd sizes or letting Bannon write all his policies. While he would regress progressive policies and enact terrible GOP agenda items like more voter suppression tactics, those things are already going to be done under Trump. You would not have a good president, but you would at least have a president, not an angry orange toddler.

What's more, Pence would be a weak president because it would erode GOP support to have a president no one chose in office, one who didn't even run, so he would be easy pickings for the the Dems to run wild in House, Senate and other elections in 2018 and even more so in 2020.

Of course that last point is well known to the GOP so that's why they would not impeach unless it was absolutely necessary to save their skins and no less. Of course their standing by Trump even as he destroys the country may erode their support anyway.

 

[A Link to the Past]

If Trump gets impeached, I hope that SNL does a skit where Congress fires him in an Apprentice-like fashion, only to have Alec Baldwin take it in a respectful, demur fashion, and bow out gracefully. Just to satirize Trump's inevitable hissy fit.

 

[Neoweee]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

There's no indication at all that Trump isn't pushing for the right-wing social policy, as-is, and Pence is 95% less likely to destabilize the world order and/or lead to a nuclear launch.

It isn't even a remotely close decision.

 

[LizardKing]

Pence has morals. They are quite reprehensible and loathsome morals, but he does have his set of beliefs he operates on.

Trump does not, he has no beliefs, no morals, no "code" or goals beyond instant gratification and ego stroking, and he is a complete idiot who knows nothing of running a country, he could barely run a business. What's more anything Pence would enact is already being enacted, but with the added incompetence, lack of dignity, instability and treachery (in the Russia connection) Trump brings, and the alt-right evil that Bannon brings.

Pence wouldn't be yelling SEE YOU IN COURT on twitter, trying and failing to strongarm world leaders, whining about crowd sizes or letting Bannon write all his policies. While he would regress progressive policies and enact terrible GOP agenda items like more voter suppression tactics, those things are already going to be done under Trump. You would not have a good president, but you would at least have a president, not an angry orange toddler.

What's more, Pence would be a weak president because it would erode GOP support to have a president no one chose in office, one who didn't even run, so he would be easy pickings for the the Dems to run wild in House, Senate and other elections in 2018 and even more so in 2020.

Of course that last point is well known to the GOP so that's why they would not impeach unless it was absolutely necessary to save their skins and no less. Of course their standing by Trump even as he destroys the country may erode their support anyway.

Tump hurts the Republicans way more than the bolded would ever do. It's exactly because he does shit like yell see you in court that he is making enemies. Don't you see how good his crazy antics are for us as Democrats? Look how it's turning people against them. A quiet rational republican isn't going to do the same thing and would be much worse for the country as they can seize control for a long time and truly do damage. We can weather 4 years of insanity. We can't weather decades of this party in control.

 

[Drek]

Ah yes, polls.

"Hillary Clinton has a 99% chance of winning the presidency"

Based off of the most recent voter turnout models she did. Unfortunately almost half the country decided to stay home, as opposed to ~40% who normally do. Despite that she still won a substantial margin in the popular vote and Trump's win was entirely the product of the electoral college being a broken system for election management in the 21st century.

 

[Emerson]

And then watch as Republican's seize control of the country for the next 20 years and quietly rule through voter apathy. Trump is better for Democrats. Trump will push more extreme and louder with his agenda. This will make the other side push harder back (as it is). You can't really get any worse than the modern Republican party and their rank and file members anyway.

You're taking a gamble to make this argument. That Trump will continue to dig his hole just deep enough to bury himself but not so deep as to bury all of us with him. And hey, that might work out. But personally, I'd rather just lose him. Pence would be a near-automatic loss in 2020 if Trump was impeached or resigned, as the president literally nobody wanted who was embroiled in scandals.

And despite what you said in another post, there is literally no check on the president's ability to launch a nuke, by design. No, I don't think it's likely he'll do so. Yes, I think it's entirely too likely (even if the overall chance is low) that he'll do so when his temperament is such garbage, considering the stakes.

 

[Balphon]

These PPP polls are always fun.

14% of Trump voters in the sample support invading Mexico.

4% believe Frederick Douglass is alive, which puts them in good company with the President.

51% believe Trump should be able to overrule judges he disagrees with, because they've secretly wanted a king all this time.

It's completely irrelevant. Hillary's out.

What matters, what really matters, is the Trump vs. Pence ratio now.

They asked.

Pence: 30
Trump: 38
Not Sure/DNA: 32

 

[WhiteRabbitEXE]

i don't think republicans are capable of thought independent from their leader

This genuinely seems to be the case. Going from "OUR ENTIRE FOREIGN POLICY MUST BE ABOUT RUSSIA" with Romney to supporting Donald "The Fucking Piss-Puppet" Trump in 4 fucking years makes it extremely fucking clear. Plus how easily the party was able to shift to shitting on McCain.

 

[Ithil]

Tump hurts the Republicans way more than the bolded would ever do. It's exactly because he does shit like yell see you in court that he is making enemies. Don't you see how good his crazy antics are for us as Democrats? Look how it's turning people against them. A quiet rational republican isn't going to do the same thing and would be much worse for the country as they can seize control for a long time and truly do damage. We can weather 4 years of insanity. We can't weather decades of this party in control.

The bolded would destroy them, because it would give the Dems control of congress and the governorships and legislature in time for the 2021 redistricting, which would mean all of the GOP's gerrymandering, which they have come to rely on to retain the House and other races, would be struck down. Their voter ID suppression tactics would also get reversed.

The GOP are facing a changing population that is moving away from them. They had two options, to either change with the population, or try to rig the system to keep them in power in spite of the changing population. They chose the latter, so if they lose their rigging they're in serious trouble.

 

[Feep]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

No, no.

We *really* want him impeached.

 

[Eusis]

No, no.

We *really* want him impeached.

Plus I half expect Trump to eventually sign off on some nonsense like that anyway if Pence leans enough.

 

[BiggNife]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

I think Pence is an awful piece of shit but I would still much rather him be president than trump. He's far more predictable and also completely lacks Trump's charisma so 2020 would be a nightmare for him.

Pence would never cause an international incident through a tweet. Meanwhile with Trump it's depressingly plausible.

 

[Zubz]

No Trump likely means No Bannon. Pence is irredeemable garbage, but he's Obama compared to Trump & Bannon together.

 

[Vagabundo]

Because they are statistically insignificant, just like the HillaryIs44 nutjobs in 2008 were. People are swinging at nothing.

Maybe we can lump Jill Stein voters in two. We only need 100k spread over those three states I'm pretty sure we can get their with Clinton incompetence, Brenie Bros and Jill Steiners???

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

Wait, really? That's pretty cringe if true.

He goes through all his one liners.

 

[Joni]

Based off of the most recent voter turnout models she did. Unfortunately almost half the country decided to stay home, as opposed to ~40% who normally do. Despite that she still won a substantial margin in the popular vote and Trump's win was entirely the product of the electoral college being a broken system for election management in the 21st century.

Turnout was similar to previous elections. Higher percentage than both Clinton wins, higher than Bush 1 and Obama 2. So Americans suck at voting all the time, it is just that it is only a problem for eight years after which the good one gets elected by chance.

 

[yanipheonu]

Someone has their finger on the Impeach Trump button somewhere.

I'm going to guess they're gauging between choosing a time when Trump's unpopularity is critical, or just pulling the plug when the beloved money is getting affected. Whichever comes first.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

If voters could choose they'd rather have both Barack Obama (52/44) or Hillary Clinton (49/45) instead of Trump.

I blame every single lazy fucker who stayed at home and those Bernie or Buster assholes. Fuck them all.

And as straight, white, middle-class males, this presidency won't affect them one iota, and they'll have learned nothing.

 

[HollowCentral]

I still don't get why people are so against Trump. I didn't vote for him, but so far he seems to be doing an OK job. He's certainly kept his word on keeping jobs, and I think his immigration ban is a good start to figuring out a way to keep terrorists out of the country. I think people are simply overreacting over it, since people think it's a ban to just keep out Muslims, which it's not. He picked out these countries because that's where the highest percentage of groups like ISIS are, and it just happens to be that those countries are Muslim countries.

 

[weekev]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

I think the quicker you guys impeach Trump, the quicker you can impeach Pence and then stick it out with Ryan for as is left before the next election and then you need to fucking mobilise the non voters to get the dems back in the white house.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I still don't get why people are so against Trump. I didn't vote for him, but so far he seems to be doing an OK job. He's certainly kept his word on keeping jobs, and I think his immigration ban is a good start to figuring out a way to keep terrorists out of the country. I think people are simply overreacting over it, since people think it's a ban to just keep out Muslims, which it's not. He picked out these countries because that's where the highest percentage of groups like ISIS are, and it just happens to be that those countries are Muslim countries.

This is a pretty low quality bait.

 

[King Tubby]

Look, I know we all really don't like Trump but you DO NOT want him impeached.


Because then you get Pence as President.


Mr. Electrocuting gay people will make them straight again Pence.


I'll stick with Trump.

President Pence wouldn't keep me awake at night fearing his dumb ass is going to start World War III. Something to be said for not having a complete idiot with the nuclear codes.

 

[astroturfing]

a pathetic man like Trump should have a 0.1-1% approval rating at most in a normal functioning society, and 10% in some country filled with morons... over 40% is just unfathomable. how is there any going back from that? you know those tens of millions of dumb dumbs are going to breed, a lot. they are going to keep homeschooling their overfed children to learn how to hate science and progress, and megachurches are going to keep filling up.

America is forever doomed to have half of its people being complete idiots. i don't know
how the planet can take that.. the other half better start stepping up. but Bush also got 8 years so... not much hope.

 

[Bluth54]

Ah yes, polls.

"Hillary Clinton has a 99% chance of winning the presidency"

From what I've seen on TV and read online it seemed like one of the big issues with the polls for the Presidential campaign were that if someone was talking to a live person they were more likely to lie about voting for Trump than if they were doing an automated poll or an online poll. Because that sort of thing had never happened before pollsters weren't prepared for it and didn't properly factor it into their polls.

 

[Par Score]

Ah yes, polls.

"Hillary Clinton has a 99% chance of winning the presidency"

No poll ever said this. That's not how polls work.

Poll aggregators, placing too much certainty on the specific accuracy of combined polls, said this.

The polls were mostly right, within their margin of error. There was no huge polling miss. Polls said Hillary Clinton would win the popular vote by a couple of percentage points, just like she did.

 

[Frankfurter]

These PPP polls are always fun.

14% of Trump voters in the sample support invading Mexico.

4% believe Frederick Douglass is alive, which puts them in good company with the President.

51% believe Trump should be able to overrule judges he disagrees with, because they've secretly wanted a king all this time.



They asked.

Pence: 30
Trump: 38
Not Sure/DNA: 32

Please tell me that percentage is an error on your side. Please!