ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
This is the most bitter, paranoid spin I could have possibly imagined for this, lol.
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This is the most bitter, paranoid spin I could have possibly imagined for this, lol.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Ron is right, though. Google is closing everything while avoiding changing the project completely. Yeah, apps get updated through the store, cool. That solves the non issue of fragmentation, which is meaningless. But the downside is that Google has closed everything off.
Who's to say Android won't be abandoned and Google forks it themselves?
Who's to say Android won't be abandoned and Google forks it themselves?
From Androids main and largest problem to meaningless in an instant as soon as they begin to solve said problem. That seems convenient.
Well for right now, an agreement with the Chinese government to keep it going for another 3 years at least AFAIK.
But beyond that? So what if they did? It could be closed source tomorrow and it wouldn't make me any difference at all. I buy the phones because they have, and do what I want. Not because I gain extra valor points in life by using an 'open source OS'. That distinction is absolutely meaningless to me as a consumer. I guess I'm just not seeing the problem. Closing the OS is waived in front of you as some horrible boogey man of an outcome, when every push in that direction thusfar has made the OS easier to use and better for consumers in general in terms of quality control. Not to mention when every other major mobile OS (both successful and unsuccessful) is also completely closed.
Marty Chinn
Member
Well if they closed it off, then the only Android phones would be Nexus phones and I don't think I'm okay with that. Especially since they focus more on mid-tier specs usually, and skimp on things like storage capacity.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Imagine if Google had their own cell service... hmmm...
Being closed source doesn't prevent licensing last I checked. Pretty sure WP8 runs on OEM hardware (if they cared to make any) but WP8 isn't open source. But in any case, thats beyond reason, the OS would die instantly if they tried that, and they know it.
Another thing is the elephant in the room. Patents. IIRC Google cannot keep all of their software OS if they want to patent it and protect themselves and their creations in the mobile space. Its no secret to anyone that folks have been going after Android itself to a degree and the OEM's that utilize it with patents. If everything they create (some of it really good, like Google Now) is Open Source, then its not going to be able to be patented and used for cross licensing to avoid patent war meltdowns etc.
Its going to be a mess more than likely.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
shit show
Agreed. The other two competing mobile platforms (iOS and Windows Phone) are both closed source and Android being open source doesn't really give it an advantage anyway.
Not necessarily. They could easily license it as a closed source platform (like Windows Phone for instance). As for Nexus devices being mid-tier, it looks like they're taking things more seriously now (Nexus 10 2012, Nexus 7 2013, rumored Nexus 5).
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Since I don't know very well, since WP is closed off, is there any bloatware on their phones on any provider?
There are some carrier apps installed. This may vary by carrier and phone. However they can all be uninstalled easily. No root needed like some Android phones.
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
This is pretty disgusting.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Then my question is, why are they always locked with Android devices? Because of the openness to allow it to be locked onto the phone?
Ephemeris
Member
Nope.
Well, its because Android allows them to. They would do it on WP as well if they could.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
Do you believe that would ever change sometime in the future?
Only if they closed up Android completely or made some sort of deal with carriers.
I think its likely that they will make deals with carriers to remove all or significant amounts of bloatware, but only for their own phones (See the Moto X).
With the Moto X there was some bloatware from AT&T and Verizon missing. (Amazon apps stood out). So it seems they are likely working towards that, but the OEM's will likely be on their own to hash out those sort of deals (if they care to).
Marty Chinn
Member
Licensing would still limit itself to being stock Android which I don't think I'm okay with. Love it or hate it, there are at least interesting things brought to the table from the various manufacturers in their release.
SolidSnakeUS
Member
I think after they get very minimal or remove all bloatware (strong arm it maybe?) maybe they should move on them to make sure that all updates from companies get pushed out around the same time?
Wishful thinking, yay...
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Be conscious of to whom you ascribe these positions. It's never been an issue and I've always said that. Don't put words in my mouth, especially in a condescending way.
As for how close sourcing hurts the consumers, it would limit real Android phones to just Nexus devices or ones licensed by Google. That's crap. And I say this as a Nexus user. That's not at all a pro consumer move.
ugh, why does this persist?
im not for closing the os, but except for amazon, android phones are licensed by google
Marty Chinn
Member
Was the Nexus 4 not a mid tier phone with limited storage capacity? Is the Nexus 7 not a mid tier spec tablet? Google makes sacrifices to keep the price low. That doesn't mean they aren't solid devices, but it does mean they aren't top of the line.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Well, now. But if they closed it, it would probably be like the Windows model. Where if you want these updated apps, like Calendar, you need to get with Google. Who won't let you Touchwiz it this time around. I know it's like that now to get the Play Store and everything but it won't be the same if Google flips that switch.
I hate Touchwiz but I'm glad it's around as a stick against Google.
I hate Touchwiz but I'm glad it's around as a stick against Google.
The Nexus 4 was top of the line in everything but capacity when it was released. It was the second device to use the Snapdragon S4 Pro (after the Optimus G).
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
The N7's internals are also fantastic and top of the line.
Every other week there's bickering over the N4's internals and calling it mid-tier. The only things it lacked to make it even start approaching that category is LTE and higher storage capacities. Every other spec in it was as high end as you could get it.
Android OT4 - The Nexus 4 wasn't mid-tier you dolts
Android OT4 - The Nexus 4 wasn't mid-tier you dolts
Nicktendo86
Member
It really is a joke, I don't know what is wrong with people.
Also, LOL at N7 being mid spec!!!! Highest resolution screen on a 7 incher, 2gb ram and the SOC is not a s4 pro as marketed but actually a downclocked s600. It is very high spec for a tablet today
The Faceless Master
Member
thread worthy
The Faceless Master
Member
maybe that was cool in Europe, but in 2012, high end phones had LTE in America. even the annual iPhone had LTE in 2012!
Hm. Interesting article by Ars.
But I guess aosp is just meant to be the stock stock. Google adds its own things, as do other carriers and what nots.
On the one hand its good that they put things like calender in the store cause it gets updated more often then by the manufacturers. On the other hand, not adding back pretty standard features to the aosp is kinda shifty.
But I guess aosp is just meant to be the stock stock. Google adds its own things, as do other carriers and what nots.
On the one hand its good that they put things like calender in the store cause it gets updated more often then by the manufacturers. On the other hand, not adding back pretty standard features to the aosp is kinda shifty.
I don't quite agree with that Ars Technica article, or with whatever they're insinuating anyway.
Let's start with the basics. Several applications have always been part of the GApps and not part of AOSP. This includes gmail, talk, maps, etc...
Over time these were updated and changed such that they can be updated through the store rather than requiring a new version of GApps, which is usually supplied with a ROM. So that's an improvement. Closed source stuff remained closed source but it now can be updated easily on devices.
Now moving onto AOSP apps. Calendar, keyboard, messaging, gallery, camera, browser, etc. Ever since android skins have existed (I'm thinking of Sense 2 on the HTC Hero) all of the above apps have been gathered from AOSP, skinned, and included as OEM-exclusive applications. Almost no one gave the user the plain AOSP version of any of those apps. HTC IME keyboard was vastly superior to what AOSP had for example and the browser and calendar both had tweaks and features which wouldn't be available on the Nexus One released much later with stock Android.
So apps in AOSP are barebone versions of the apps. They work but aren't polished and in most cases it is expected that they will be replaced or modified by the OEM.
At this point I'd assume that Google sees that there is no point in fixing or updating AOSP apps because:
a) OEMs will still modify them anyway
b) The more changes in AOSP the harder it'll be for OEMs to update their firmware and release timely updates
c) What is even the point of updating apps which are not to be distributed on the play store and therefore are essentially usable on Nexus devices?
d) Even open communities like CyanogenMod were modifying and rebuilding AOSP apps
So they fork off AOSP and build their own apps, tweak them and release them for all users on the play store. AOSP still has the barebones versions of each of the apps mentioned in the article and are still open source. It's just that for meaningful updates, Google is distributing them through the play store. Ars technica seems to suggest that the only fair thing for Google to do is to have only the Nexus devices running on inferior versions of apps since every OEM will get whatever the Nexus device have and be able to build upon it. At the same time OEM devices have no method of getting the vanilla version of any app because they're only available through AOSP. Sounds silly.
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Handtec listing: http://www.handtec.co.uk/lg-google-nexus-5-black-16gb.html
Let's start with the basics. Several applications have always been part of the GApps and not part of AOSP. This includes gmail, talk, maps, etc...
Over time these were updated and changed such that they can be updated through the store rather than requiring a new version of GApps, which is usually supplied with a ROM. So that's an improvement. Closed source stuff remained closed source but it now can be updated easily on devices.
Now moving onto AOSP apps. Calendar, keyboard, messaging, gallery, camera, browser, etc. Ever since android skins have existed (I'm thinking of Sense 2 on the HTC Hero) all of the above apps have been gathered from AOSP, skinned, and included as OEM-exclusive applications. Almost no one gave the user the plain AOSP version of any of those apps. HTC IME keyboard was vastly superior to what AOSP had for example and the browser and calendar both had tweaks and features which wouldn't be available on the Nexus One released much later with stock Android.
So apps in AOSP are barebone versions of the apps. They work but aren't polished and in most cases it is expected that they will be replaced or modified by the OEM.
At this point I'd assume that Google sees that there is no point in fixing or updating AOSP apps because:
a) OEMs will still modify them anyway
b) The more changes in AOSP the harder it'll be for OEMs to update their firmware and release timely updates
c) What is even the point of updating apps which are not to be distributed on the play store and therefore are essentially usable on Nexus devices?
d) Even open communities like CyanogenMod were modifying and rebuilding AOSP apps
So they fork off AOSP and build their own apps, tweak them and release them for all users on the play store. AOSP still has the barebones versions of each of the apps mentioned in the article and are still open source. It's just that for meaningful updates, Google is distributing them through the play store. Ars technica seems to suggest that the only fair thing for Google to do is to have only the Nexus devices running on inferior versions of apps since every OEM will get whatever the Nexus device have and be able to build upon it. At the same time OEM devices have no method of getting the vanilla version of any app because they're only available through AOSP. Sounds silly.
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Handtec listing: http://www.handtec.co.uk/lg-google-nexus-5-black-16gb.html
Nicktendo86
Member
Agreed Zeppu, not sure what all the fuss is about. Android is open, Gaaps is not, as it has always been. OEMs are slow to update firmware and apps as they have no reason to, Google decouples apps and put them on the play store so they can be updated in a timely fashion. The bit that grated me in the Ars article was about how poor Amazon are stuck paying Nokia to use their maps unless they want to map the whole world themselves, boo fucking hoo. Google did it to massive expense, why should they just give it away?
The main problem with the article is its looking at it from a oem perspective. The reason i got a droid 1 and went to verizon when it came out, was because you can make your own app, and install it on any android device out of the box, no hack required. That to me is the reason i didnt get a iphone, and android has become something absolutely incredible ever since. Also, i know a lot of people hate touchwiz, but i use the dual app function almost daily, although now twitch doesnt work right with it which sucks. Touchwiz itself is pretty ugly but functionally its quite good.
The openness of android to me is the ability to install any app onto any android device, the open source part was just a bonus in my eyes.
The openness of android to me is the ability to install any app onto any android device, the open source part was just a bonus in my eyes.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
On a side note Google going closed source would be a GPL Nightmare for the ages. Certain things would have to be published, but to whom is debatable. Plus the layer on top of the kernel can be closed source, but it has been argued depending upon how you manage your hooks back to the kernel where that too has to be open sourced.
Then there is the problem of how would you know if that is the case? Plus even if Google did infringe who could really do anything about it? There is always the option to switch to some form of BSD, but it isn't like we are talking just swapping Lego pieces. That would require work because BSD and Linux are similar, but they aren't the same.
Google could just write their own custom full stack but that would be a MASSIVE undertaking. And for what? It would be squarely on Google to build and maintain. Would take a long time to create as shit like this doesn't just happen over night. Oh and it would be a resource drain in an area that isn't their $$$ maker aka advertising.
Ehh I could go on, but I'll stop rambling.
Then there is the problem of how would you know if that is the case? Plus even if Google did infringe who could really do anything about it? There is always the option to switch to some form of BSD, but it isn't like we are talking just swapping Lego pieces. That would require work because BSD and Linux are similar, but they aren't the same.
Google could just write their own custom full stack but that would be a MASSIVE undertaking. And for what? It would be squarely on Google to build and maintain. Would take a long time to create as shit like this doesn't just happen over night. Oh and it would be a resource drain in an area that isn't their $$$ maker aka advertising.
Ehh I could go on, but I'll stop rambling.
Psychotext
Member
Is there a foolproof guide anywhere for rooting the Galaxy Tab 2? I'm developing on it at the moment and it would be quite useful.
Check here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/index.php?tab=all
And look for your specific device. Make sure it's the correct device though as you're dealing with stuff that can potentially brick your device permanently (and by that I mean bootloader, fastboot, whatever stuff)
EDIT - Anyone know how to check what beta programs/apps they're enrolled it? I signed up for a bunch but forgot what I was in lol. Now that I have a new phone, I want to see how it's like on it.
Testicular Sound Express
Member
No. I would still consider the Nexus 4 as one of the best Android phones right now.
Please to be saying something today, Google?
I'm actually seriously hoping for invites going out today.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Please to be saying something today, Google?
For the October reveal to be true, they have to send invites this week (from today to Thursday), because invites always go out one week beforehand.
The question is when. I doubt they will do it tomorrow, unless they want to be washed away in all tthe Apple news.
Boo fucking hoo.
Seeing as most major OEM do whatever they want to Android (skin and replace apps for their own) I just thinks it's fair that Googy decouples everything from the OS. OEMs don't respect or care for the UI vision that Google wants for the OS.
And as for the modding community, just look at what has happened with Cyanogenmod. Now you have devs decoupling their own work from them, as they have become more corporate like in the way they conduct business (i.e. Focal)
As long as all of these key components (calendar, camera, keyboard, etc) can be replace with the app of your choosing I don't see the "closed source" argument. Maybe I'm just not technical enough to understand, but as a consumer I think it's great that Google is replacing these components via the Play store.
Psychotext
Member
Cheers.
Baroquemantic
Member
Well it's Monday. I hope there's a surprise Nexus 5 announcement today, and that all the tech sites have just been under NDA.
On that Ars article, Ron is incorrect on a couple of things. The AOSP keyboard does in fact have gesture typing. It came out with 4.2 and I'm pretty sure I remember having it before Google made their own branded version. The AOSP calendar has also received some of the newer features the Google branded one has.
But anyway, I don't really see what Google is doing with AOSP a bad thing.
On that Ars article, Ron is incorrect on a couple of things. The AOSP keyboard does in fact have gesture typing. It came out with 4.2 and I'm pretty sure I remember having it before Google made their own branded version. The AOSP calendar has also received some of the newer features the Google branded one has.
But anyway, I don't really see what Google is doing with AOSP a bad thing.
What?!
But its been out for a year now dude! A whole year. You might as well be using a nexus one.
That's incredibly naive. If Google closed Android tomorrow then Samsung and other OEM's would announce their own fork the following day. How would you like having several different and incompatible operating systems on the market, you know, as "a consumer"?
Testicular Sound Express
Member
And?
the Nexus 4, G2, S4, Moto X and the HTC One are the android best phones on the market imo.
Pft. I just bought a Nexus 4 recently and it's still awesome and fast. And before you ask about why getting the N4 now and not the N5, it was only $170 >__>
#Nexus5
Just kidding
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