Not that I know of, but people are ok with that because of the higher specs. I was hoping for a Motorola X that outclasses last year's top phones like the Galaxy S3 but at a much lower price than this year's flagships.
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Not that I know of, but people are ok with that because of the higher specs. I was hoping for a Motorola X that outclasses last year's top phones like the Galaxy S3 but at a much lower price than this year's flagships.
Do you or do you not accept the reviews that have all said the battery life is better on the X than the ONE or the GS4?
Or to put it another why. Why are specs good? Someone explain to me like I'm five. I'm talking:
Screen Size
Battery Size
Processor Speed
Are there other specs that aren't measuring up that I'm missing? I'm not talking memory size (16/32) because you can get genuine utility out of more geebees if you're someone who really uses them.
Ephemeris
Member
I spent some time over there. Never had any issues with dropped calls. I was at the aquarium by the bay and tried to do a Google hangout video session that never worked.
Although I'm not sure if it was simply the people not answering their damn chat requests.
I never ran any speed tests though.
Cosign
Junior Mint
Member
I've only read The Verge and Engadget reviews so far but I only trust battery reviews from GSMArena and Anandtech.
I shake my head when I see people say they easily get 24 hours of battery life but wifi is on for the entire day.
The Faceless Master
Member
but the GS4 and One have good battery life, and the GS4 has a removable battery. also, by the time the Moto X is out, the LG G2 with its monster 3000 mAh battery will be too.
charts & graphs?
Ok. Hypothetical: Anandtech and GSMarean come out and say the battery life is better than the gs4 and one.
Still with me?
How, then, does it matter that there's a "bigger" battery in the gs4 or the one. What material difference does it make?
That's why I'm saying specs are overvalued. People look at mAh, but what matters is how well it works. People talk about ghz and cores, but what matters is have well and quickly it accomplishes the computational tasks that are given to it. When a company up and changes the model, designing the phone to have better battery life on a lower mAh battery, just as fast rendering on a processor with fewer ghz, then specs don't matter anymore!
I don't simply "like the phone", my overall point is that the spec wars are damaging to the market because they hold us back. Ours and the reviewer's insistence on placing value on on the raw specs without taking into account actual real life performance (more our fault than reviewers, in this case) changes our mindset so that we place too much emphasis on raw specs.
I honestly believe, 100%, that the price of this phone is not too high. I saw 575 for the X somewhere compared to 650 for the gs4. If i were in the market for an off contract phone that price wouldn't scare me one bit. Why? because I think I'll gain more utility from using the moto x than I would from the gs4 or the one.
If you think that you actually gain utility from the size of the screen, or the mAh of the battery or the ghz of the processor, then good for you! That's great. What is frustrating to me is that our personal preferences, as the geekiest of phone geeks, do not mirror the real world.
Samsung and HTC have adopted a strategy to appeal to us, and relied on us to evangelize their phones to the plebeian 99%. Your mom and your dad and your coworker could not give two shits how many ghz the proc is, but you said it was good, and they trust you, so they bought a gs4. This works to a point, but it depends on spec wars to sell the new phone against the old one.
Why is it apple is the largest company in the world? It's because they actually sell what matters. They look at the market and they sell an experience. They sell utility.
The only problem with the moto X is that it's being positioned against phones that came out of the spec wars and it's selling an experience rather than specs. it's a bold and maybe foolhardy strategy, but if it works the market will be better for it, because people will derive more utility from innovative features, rather than specs. That's why I'm frustrated but the spec talk. I don't care about the moto X, it's a hunk of metal and glass and plastic that does stuff. What I care about is where the market is going, and I'd much rather see 10 new moto X's in the future than 1000 GS4's
still overpriced
All of Samsung's commercials lately have sold the experience. All of it. They talk more about Touchwiz and the cool things that Touchwiz can do (the experience), than the specs. Sure, they might mention, "wow that's an awesome screen," or maybe camera MP, but that's about it.
If you want a phone that sells the experience, then Samsung is it. It's why Touchwiz is arguably the most intrusive layer on Android, out of all the main companies, it's because they customize the experience so much.
Other than battery life, what makes the Motorola software experience sooo special that one would choose that instead of an S4?
Also, I would argue that the Windows phones are very much marketed for the "experience," as opposed to the specs, but...that hasn't exactly worked out for Microsoft, has it?
Ephemeris
Member
And I believe the Moto X is the first phone to come across the table of the superior council that is AndroidGAF where the argument can be legitmately made that the specs don't "matter".
And I believe the Moto X is the first phone to come across the table of the superior council that is AndroidGAF where the argument can be legitmately made that the specs don't "matter".
I gave up on caring on specs somewhere between the GN and the N4.
Especially it's some uber shitty saviour lame duck chip from the tegra line.
It's because at the end of the day the MS experience isn't as good. Apps are part of the experience, and they got left behind because they had fewer.
But this is progress! Experience vs experience, not spec vs experience!
This is what I'm getting at. Now that we're apples to apples, I think you'll see that the pricing on the X might not be 'good' (that would imply it's underpriced) but it's reasonable:
Moto X experience:
Battery life: better, as you said, and we're gleaning from reivews
Slightly smaller body (important to some, not to others)
Always listening voice activation
Bluetooth 'secure zones' where the phone is unlocked when it's near you
Stock android (for the most part, important to some, not to others)
Made in america (important to some, not to others).
Active notifications (that only work because of the amoled screen)
color customization (phones are very personal to people, and I think people will really like it)
Obviously a lot of this comes down to personal preference, but that's the point! Spec wars take away our personal preference. The battery life, the made/assembled in the US, the smaller body, none of that would have been possible if they participated in the spec wars.
Now someone do the same thing for GS4 and the one, and we can have a real comparison. Certainly they'll each do a few things better than others, but at the end of the day I think we'll find that the experiences are not very different. That's why I think the moto X price is reasonable, it shouldn't be MORE expensive, but it probably shouldn't be much cheaper.
Vyse The Legend
Member
Two points:
1. Apple doesn't look at the market, at least, they did not in the Jobs era when they revolutionized this market. Instead, they dictate to the market what they should and should not want. They sell you on their vision, rather than shape their vision based on the current market's whims. They also champion performance at almost every keynote (2x faster than the last model, 4x better graphics, etc.).
2. You're assuming that consumers have to choose between "utility", as you define it, and high-end specs. We don't. Moreover, most manufacturers are cognizant that the spec race is nearing its end. This is why you're seeing Samsung throw as many features as they humanly can in the S-line, HTC pushing camera quality and build materials, LG trying to sell you a "it just works" lifestyle with random user-friendly features
but no multitasking button
Maybe Motorola's near-stock experience/vision appeals to you more than the others, but Motorola is not doing anything unique here, except for the customization, which is foolishly locked to AT&T for months -- and in all likelihood, until well after the next iPhone and Nexus leapfrog it.
Junior Mint
Member
They have completely different hardware, of course there's a possibility that the Moto X could have better battery life. I'm not betting that the Moto X battery life is significantly better than the either the One or GS4 though.
I don't know why you are still arguing specs when I already said that I'm satisfied with its specs. I even said that I would still take an HTC One if it had the same specs as the Moto X. You're just picking a sliver of the argument that you can debate. Everything you've said so far are just vague thoughts on "experience" and "utility". You're promoting Motorola's software enhancements as life-changing yet dismissing anything that Samsung and HTC have developed in their implementations of Android.
You can convince yourself you're getting a special experience but all I see is stock Android with voice features that'll probably never get used... not that I'm downplaying the software. I'm saying the "experience" isn't so so spectacularly different (or better) from Touchwiz or Sense that it's a defining feature/reason to get this phone over any other phone.
Ephemeris
Member
Tegra leaves a bad taste in my mouth. No love.
The S3 is the first phone where a year later, I'm not salivating at the mouth to switch since it's still going great. Thanks to Sammy and their speedy updates.
I'm confused, if the spec wars are over, why don't we have a choice?
The only reason that bolded sentence you wrote could have any value is if you assume modern tech=better. Here's how I'm looking at this whole thing:
Internet: But the specs are better!
Me: So what?!
So if the experience of the X is on par with the other phones (not better, like you said), than Samsung and HTC put higher specs in their phone why? If they could accomplish the same experience that moto did with lower specs, then they only put them there to differentiate themselves from last years models. No value is ever delivered to you, the consumer. We're paying for marketing, pure and simple. Because specs have no intrinsic value, I believe the moto X should be roughly the same price as the other phones.
Junior Mint
Member
They do have value. Specs partially determine how usable a phone can be over time. If what you were saying is true, there'd be no point in getting an iPhone 4S over an iPhone 4 but clearly OS improvements, feature additions, and more complex apps eventually demand more power.
The Faceless Master
Member
Specs don't matter. Get a Nokia Lumia 521.
Because at the end of the day, you can find that the S4 seems to offer much more of an experience for a cheaper price than what the X is offering. Active notification and Battery Life might be the only things that truly differentiates itself from the S4.
All those other things are negligible. Customization goes out the door when you have to buy a case (and for many people, you customize your phone THROUGH your case, regardless of phone), Stock Android is boring for the plebeians, that's why just about every OEM has to create a new experience for their phones, and Made in America is neat....but at the end of the day, I don't think it's that big of a game changer (and I'm about as patriotic as you can get).
And hey...as have been mentioned before, the S4 has better specs too.
So if the experience for the S4 (and people REALLY like their TouchWiz) AND the specs are all seemingly better, the X price is really not justifiable for what it offers. People will sacrifice crazy good battery life for just plain old good battery life, especially if the price of said phone (S4 specifically) can be found for cheaper.
And hey, the Samsung marketing machine has made the Galaxy brand the cool alternative to iPhone, that also goes a long way, and something I don't think the X can compete against with what they're offering at the price they're offering.
one example where better hardware has been leverage by software and design to create a better user experience. I still maintain that the 42MP sensor by itself has no value to you.
So how do we measure success? Sales? It's purely pontification but I think the X will sell gangbusters, just my opinion, and only time will tell.
As far as I've seen the GS4 is $30 more than the X. Are we looking at the same phones?
I realize that while I like stock, some people don't like stock. But by the same token, you have to realize that while you like touchwiz, some people despise it to the ends of the earth, And you still give credence to the idea that more specs = more $. For those of you convinced of this, I won't change your mind.
I'm not saying the X is BETTER than the GS4 or the ONE. If I were, logically I would have to argue for a HIGHER price. I'm not. I'm saying the price is reasonable. It's $30 cheaper off contract than the GS4. I'm arguing against the point that the X is CRAZY expensive, which is an argument based solely on the fact that the specs were not as good. Maybe it should be $30, or $50 cheaper than it is, but it should not be $300 off contract. That would be CRAZY inexpensive.
Got excited thinking Android finally actually got a decent exclusive app =(
touchdown is androids best exclusive app
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
EDIT: Fine. Google Music All Access is the best android exclusive app.
The Faceless Master
Member
you're just saying that because you know you can't beat my high score!
Well, it's been two months and still nary a peep.
shinshoryuken
Member
You act like the moto X has some revolutionary future or something. Wow I can operate Google without touching...woopee dooo! Take my money!!!
Oh please. Samsung could probably tack that feature on with the next galaxy model...
They already tacked it on their S3 and S4, and it was detrimental to battery and performance and was just really shittily implemented.
Sounds normal for Google. That's the way they roll nowadays. Surprised they even said they were working on it.
Sorry. :-/
shinshoryuken
Member
And we all know how the moto X will perform in real world usage...
LG won't do a google play edition g2?
That's what the Nexus 5 is for.
Damn it I want a Nexus 5 on verizon.
The Faceless Master
Member
LG won't do a google play edition g2?
NEXUS CONFIRMED
they makin' GPe for VZW now?
just hope that LG's traditionally 'not very secure' bootloader returns in the G2
The screen does suck. When Joshua Topolsky was handed the X on the Vergecast to get his first impression of the device the first thing he said was "The screen looks stunningly bad to me"
We all know how YOU BELIEVE the moto X will perform in real world usage. Because most of you already wrote it off when it was announced with less than top of the line specs, you'll continue to write it off with either a lack of evidence or, in this case, only evidence to the contrary.
I'm not trying to sell anyone a moto X here. For most of you, since you believe specs are important, specs will actually make you happy. Isn't that the ultimate goal? So by all means, get a GS4 or a one and be happy! Just don't be surprised when those of us who put no credence in specs alone (there's a lot more of us than you think) want something different.
This is laughable, honestly. I post three reviews that say the screen doesn't suck, in the eyes of some of the reviewers even the opposite, that it's good. Yet i'm honest about the fact that all of this boils down so far to a few anecdotal accounts. You post a one-liner from tech-world-jesus and that's supposed to make your point? At best it's 3-1, but come on. My posting 3 reviews doesn't even make it fact or not, it's simply evidence. A context-less, off-the-cuff one liner from topolsky isn't much to hang your hat on.
The Faceless Master
Member
shinshoryuken
Member
LOL, we all know how YOU BELIEVE the motox x will perform in real world usage. Because unlike the most of us who believe the moto X is a midrange over priced phone, you already concluded that the moto X is just as good as the top tier phone.
Seriously you can't honestly say that any 720 screen can compare to the screen of the s4 or one.
Last year's best 720 of the one X can't even hold a candle on the s4 screen.
And both the s4 and One can already achieve near 24 hour battery usage.
He has and he did, along with more than a few professionals in the industry. On paper, no it can't. In real world usage, it completely can. If the press who review countless phones each week can't hardly tell a difference with the phone inches from their face, then the same can be said about the average consumer.
I don't know how many times he has to restate the obvious. There's the idea of comparing the on paper specs of the devices in general, and then asking about the experience as a whole. Whether you like it or not, and whether or not the Moto X is weaker on paper, it brings functionality to the table that the other devices cannot (and vice versa). The question is do you care about the day to day experience of the device or bragging rights and which device is best for you?
ThatObviousUser
ὠαἴÏÏιÏÏÎ¿Ï Ïαá¿Ï εἶ
The differences between 1080p and 720p in a <5" display you're usually holding a foot away from your face is completely negligable.
Also, it's clear to me that the claims that the S4 and One can last a "near 24 hours" is either hearsay or anecdotal. In any case, that is where the Moto X shines through even with its always on features:
Also, it's clear to me that the claims that the S4 and One can last a "near 24 hours" is either hearsay or anecdotal. In any case, that is where the Moto X shines through even with its always on features:
BGR said:
Indeed. We have had this discussion before a while back when the whole Retina display debacle started. How at certain sizes, there are diminishing returns on increasing resolution. More than likely same thing is going on here. Where the vast majority of real life uses will see no difference (the good enough camp), but specialized uses can certainly point out the difference (the specs matter camp).
shinshoryuken
Member
But what functionality does the moto X bring to the table that is so groundbreaking?
The s4 brings a lot more functions and people here think most are gimmicks.
I thinks some were just too hype about the moto X, and still trying to justify it for they can continue the hype.
Battersea Power Station
Member
Besides hype, some just want to follow a certain "vision" of Android. Samsung has its own direction for their mobile OS to follow and so does Google. Lately I've been getting more and more into Google's (and in the process appreciating Apple design) since they're looking to make devices less fussy and more autonomous, something I was fervently against as a young tech geek. Maybe it's my age, but I just can't handle Samsung's settings, toggles, superfluous features, and overall cluttered design.
I said I thought the design choices that moto made were bold ones. To eschew the specs in exchange for a different, likely better experience. A lot of what they did, like a newer 2 core proc, other low power procs and amoled (allowing for active notifications and always listening), 720p screen etc will make the battery life a total beast, which is one of the the most important aspects to a mobile device.
Let's look at it this way. If they tried to have the feature set that they have now with the GS4 processor and gs4 screen the battery would shit the bed before your left your house in the morning. Is it not utterly impressive that they made a phone with a GOOD screen (maybe not the best), a lag-less user experience and hella battery life for slightly less than the current competitors with features no one else has yet? For me, I'm damned impressed that A) they pulled it off, and B) they decided to do it in the first place despite the spec whoring in the market that has been going on for so long.
Once TV manufacturers started putting "3,000,000:1" dynamic contracts ratios on the box yet I couldn't really see a difference in the displays at the store I knew I was being lied to. Is it surprising that the same companies are doing the same thing with their phones?
I'm going to start referring to all phone specs that I can't directly use (ghz, megapixels, ppi, resolution etc) as electrolyes. BUT...IT'S GOT ELECTROLYTES! IT'S WHAT PLANTS CRAVE!
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