Apple releases Safari 4 beta

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Nazgul_Hunter said:
The one nice thing about having separate boxes is that if I type apple on my address bar, it looks first for apple.com, then goes through .net, .org etc. and then returns a not found page.
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Ugh: Side note. I have Verizon. My browser USED to do that, i.e. if I typed a word, it would add the appropriate extension and go ti it, but now ever since Verizon added their stupid hosted search page it takes me to an UNWANTED page full of search results. It has an Opt Out feature but I can't figure out how to make it work with my LinkSys router. It's bullshit. Fucking Verizon. I'd expect that from Comcast, but we switched to Verizon to get AWAY from braindead ideas like that. Anyone with Verizon and a LinkSys G router know how to turn it off? I had thought I fixed it once, but was sorely mistaken. They have instructions for OS X 10.3 and 10.4 but not 10.5 which changed the needed preference pane around and made it harder to figure out. I am so sick of this bullshit Verizon WebSearch page taking over for FireFox and Safari. Help!

Also, NPIYF!
 
RevenantKioku said:
I dunno, ever since I got Exposé tabs felt too constricted and limited to me.
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Dunno if anyone mentioned this, but Shiira did an Exposé thing with tabs, if I recall correctly. That browser is a bit of a mess, though. Apple could definitely integrate it.
 
Nazgul_Hunter said:
The one nice thing about having separate boxes is that if I type apple on my address bar, it looks first for apple.com, then goes through .net, .org etc. and then returns a not found page.
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Fallacy here is that it's a good thing to send someone to an error page for typing in a noun.

I think the point (and this works in practice most of the time) of having an Omnibar is that you never see a not found page unless you specified a full-on address and it pointed to nothing.
 
Anyone know a command to make a selection in like History list open in a new tab?

If I search for Safari and tab and arrow to this thread and hit CMD-Down it opens in that window. Opening in a new tab so I can open more than 1 selection per search is one of the last annoyances I'm having in my switch from Camino.

That and how tab reacts on web pages. Camino was perfect. Text bars, and arrows and check boxes, and enter buttons. Nothing more. With the minimum option here it does almost nothing, and with everything it'll bounce to each and every link. >=[

Otherwise I'm really liking it.
 
I've just noticed something - when I hit forward and back between pages, it updates them. Is this normal for browsers? Maybe I just didn't notice before, but I swear it used to just load from cache.
 
LCfiner said:
Bump.

John Gruber at Daring Fireball has a ridiculously extensive look at the Safari 4 Beta UI for the Mac. Nice article for the uber Mac geeks around here.

It mainly deals with the new tabs on top and how they alter common Mac UI paradigms. read: how they suck...

http://daringfireball.net/2009/03/safari_4_public_beta
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Personally, I understand all the differences - Safari is a unique application in that tabbed use is the norm - unlike many other apps. I know it 'breaks' their own guidelines, but I think they serve a purpose. Perhaps not thoroughly thought out as much as it should've though.

I'm getting used to it. And I don't miss the loading bar as much as I thought I would. I'd rather have it back, probably, and reserve the spinny thing to the tabbed view - since all my other loading tabs have a spinny thing at the top in the tab, EXCEPT my active window I tend to forget where to look.
 
Don't like Safari 4. Too much Apple fluff and has just straight up ripped features from Chrome.
 
MrSardonic said:
Don't like Safari 4. Too much Apple fluff and has just straight up ripped features from Chrome.
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Well Google does contribute to the WebKit project... so yeah.

Of course it's going to have some features from Chrome, it's open-source.
 
what?
Acid 3 Compliance

Safari is the first — and only — web browser to pass Acid 3.
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wrong

Movable Tabs

Safari was the first browser to let you organize tabs by dragging and dropping.
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wrong

RSS Reader

The first browser to feature a built-in RSS reader..
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wrong

CSS 3 Web Fonts

Safari is the first web browser to automatically recognize websites that use custom fonts, downloading them as they’re needed.
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wrong

HTML 5 Media Support

The first browser to support HTML 5 audio and video tags...
Click to expand...
wrong
Downloads Window

Safari was the first popular browser with a download management window.
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wrong
Built-in Google Search

Safari was the first popular browser to build a search field into its user interface.
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wrong

You can basically do a search for "first" on the safari feature page and half of them are completely false
 
Actually all of those seem right (or at least plausible) to me. Prove them wrong. I know Opera 10 alpha passes Acid 3, but I doubt Apple is counting alphas as real browsers yet.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Actually all of those seem right (or at least plausible) to me. Prove them wrong. I know Opera 10 alpha passes Acid 3, but I doubt Apple is counting alphas as real browsers yet.
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if they aren't counting alpha's as real browsers then they shouldn't be counting their own as such
 
santouras said:
obviously you didn't read the second post from the topic I linked, here it is, with a fair few dated links to when browsers got their features

its also getting called out by impartial people too
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Actually, in every single one of those, Opera only supported these features in alpha versions before the final version of Safari had it. So it's pretty clear Apple isn't counting Opera alphas as real browsers, and I would say they're right to do it.

The only one I see where they're proven wrong is on how Firefox 3.1 beta had HTML 5 first.

santouras said:
if they aren't counting alpha's as real browsers then they shouldn't be counting their own as such
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It's a beta.

Also, it's a public beta. http://www.apple.com/safari links to Safari 4 beta first and foremost, only showing Safari 3 when you really look for it. http://www.opera.com and http://www.getfirefox.com are not clearly showing download links for Opera 10 alpha or Firefox 3.1 beta.

Sure it's a small difference, but I think it's right to say you're the first browser to do something when you're really pushing out your product as meaningful. Would we say Gmail is not an innovative webmail application that brought new features just because it's in beta? It's very visible and open to everyone.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
Actually, in every single one of those, Opera only supported these features in alpha versions before the final version of Safari had it. So it's pretty clear Apple isn't counting Opera alphas as real browsers, and I would say they're right to do it.
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those links show only when the feature was first announced, be it alpha/beta/live. Please don't blindly defend a company just because you're obviously heavily invested in them. I love opera with a passion yet it doesn't stop me from calling them out vocally on crap they lag behind in or their stupid court cases with Microsoft. Be a fan of apple, not a fanboy
 
santouras said:
those links show only when the feature was first announced, be it alpha/beta/live. Please don't blindly defend a company just because you're obviously heavily invested in them. I love opera with a passion yet it doesn't stop me from calling them out vocally on crap they lag behind in or their stupid court cases with Microsoft. Be a fan of apple, not a fanboy
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...and there's the fanboy accusation to halt all meaningful discussion.

I claimed in the "Why does Firefox suck" thread that Opera was the first with tabs on top, not Chrome, because it's the truth. Likewise, I am claiming that Apple's page isn't necessarily untruthful because I believe what they have on there to be the truth.

Also, see the "new Mac stuff today" thread from yesterday about the new hardware where I thrashed Apple's shitty new product updates.

So drop the garbage fanboy argument. You're saying that those links are only showing when the feature was announced, so where exactly is the evidence that Safari really wasn't first at the things they're claiming? Don't start talking shit about browsers if you're just going to hide behind the fanboy argument as soon as you can't back it up.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
So drop the garbage fanboy argument. You're saying that those links are only showing when the feature was announced, so where exactly is the evidence that Safari really wasn't first at the things they're claiming? Don't start talking shit about browsers if you're just going to hide behind the fanboy argument as soon as you can't back it up.
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The fact that another browser did it first?

Does "being first" mean something different in Apple-land?
 
FunkyMunkey said:
The fact that another browser did it first?

Does "being first" mean something different in Apple-land?
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apparently not. I'm not sure what more proof, other then perhaps a time machine, could be produce than dated links to feature releases.
 
FunkyMunkey said:
The fact that another browser did it first?
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I'm still seeing no evidence for some of this. As santouras said, there is only evidence that Opera announced some of these features first, not that they were the first to actually come out with a real product showing them off.

I really don't care who was first, I just don't like hyper-arrogance in response to hyper-arrogance, as if one side were better than the other at being more subtly self-congratulatory.

I can see real proof that Opera really was the first with the built-in search bar, so my only guess at what's happening on Apple's page is that they just plain don't count Opera at all, for whatever reason. And let's be real here, Opera has had this problem all along. Almost everyone still talks about Firefox as being the first with the tabs, but I remember using Opera with tabs long before even Firebird was out.
 
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
I'm still seeing no evidence for some of this. As santouras said, there is only evidence that Opera announced some of these features first, not that they were the first to actually come out with a real product showing them off.

I really don't care who was first, I just don't like hyper-arrogance in response to hyper-arrogance, as if one side were better than the other at being more subtly self-congratulatory.

I can see real proof that Opera really was the first with the built-in search bar, so my only guess at what's happening on Apple's page is that they just plain don't count Opera at all, for whatever reason. And let's be real here, Opera has had this problem all along. Almost everyone still talks about Firefox as being the first with the tabs, but I remember using Opera with tabs long before even Firebird was out.
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half of the links from that article contain either the word "released" or are links to changelogs :lol I'm not sure what else you need. What annoys me is large companies feeling they can get up and claim firsts on things and ignore everyone else who has had those features for months or in some of those cases, years

edit: yes, about the tabs, that is infuriating as well. Opera wasn't the first with tabs either, altho from v1 it was apparently still multi document interface, just not with tabs.

It infuriates me to see people claiming features in FF as being revolutionary when other people have been enjoying them for a long time in other browsers. And its even more amusing when said implimented features are so limited and half implimented that they are barely helpful at all.
 
trinest said:
So Safari stole Chrome's top tabs?
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You can't steal anything from Chrome. Google said other browser makers were "free to take any features or code they want from Chrome and use it in their product." Google wants to push Browsers forward by putting features out there for all to use. It's only a matter of time before every browser is Chrome. And Chrome is every other browser.

santouras said:
You can basically do a search for "first" on the safari feature page and half of them are completely false
Click to expand...
[citation needed]
 
santouras said:
half of the links from that article contain either the word "released" or are links to changelogs :lol I'm not sure what else you need. What annoys me is large companies feeling they can get up and claim firsts on things and ignore everyone else who has had those features for months or in some of those cases, years

edit: yes, about the tabs, that is infuriating as well. Opera wasn't the first with tabs either, altho from v1 it was apparently still multi document interface, just not with tabs.

It infuriates me to see people claiming features in FF as being revolutionary when other people have been enjoying them for a long time in other browsers. And its even more amusing when said implimented features are so limited and half implimented that they are barely helpful at all.
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You're right on a lot of these, I'm looking them up. I think that forum post you linked to may have been better if they only talked about public beta or real releases rather than weird talk about whether Opera announced it first or had something running in an experimental preview.

What about movable tabs or the download window?
 
Moveable tabs were done in chrome

Download window was done in Opera, Firefox. Hell at one point both Firefox and Opera had the download manager in another tab. Firefox moved on and made download manager a seperate window. Not sure about Opera, I don't use it.
 
LCfiner said:
When i'm on the laptop, it's all about trackpad gestures. thanks to multiclutch

3 finger swipe left/right for tabs.
3 finger swipe up/down for fwd/back
rotate right to reload
rotate left to close tab.

good stuff.
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nvm
 
Angelus Errare said:
Moveable tabs were done in chrome

Download window was done in Opera, Firefox. Hell at one point both Firefox and Opera had the download manager in another tab. Firefox moved on and made download manager a seperate window. Not sure about Opera, I don't use it.
Click to expand...


moveable tabs were done before safari 4, i think they started in 3, or maybe 2.. this list isnt of stuff new to safari 4..

as far as the download window, im not sure which browser had it first.. but some of the wording on that list is tricky.. like 'first popular browser' . what constitutes popular?
 
Xun said:
Well Google does contribute to the WebKit project... so yeah.

Of course it's going to have some features from Chrome, it's open-source.
Click to expand...

yeah no shit, but webkit != browser interface.
 
whats up with .gifs in this one?

gifs were insanely fast compared to in xp when i first got a mac

been using firefox for ages and never had any problems

is it just this beta that goes all beachballs when it sees too many gifs or has safari always done that? the infamous thread kills my safari pretty badly >:-(

infamous thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355091

(beware! there be beachballs!)
 
has safari always been like that or is it just this beta? i just loaded that same page in firefox and it was insane how much faster it was and it stays responsive even if its not perfectly smooth, whereas safari actually freezes up completely for a while
 
panda21 said:
has safari always been like that or is it just this beta? i just loaded that same page in firefox and it was insane how much faster it was and it stays responsive even if its not perfectly smooth, whereas safari actually freezes up completely for a while
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it loads fine in safari 3 on my end (no beach ball).. but the gifs run slow.
 
there's a difference with the way safari 4 handles gifs.

my experiences: small numbers of gifs or gifs under 1 MB load up more quickly than in safari 3.

BUT, large gifs over 2 MB or, even worse, a page full of big gifs will freeze safari 4 whereas the page would still be responsive (but super slow) in safari 3.

so it's a small improvement in one case but a huge step down in another.
 
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