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[Ice Monkey]

Why would we?

with the spin a lot of people are putting into their arguments on this thread, you gotta think steve jobs is here somewhere.

 

[Tobor]

:lol :lol :lol Exactly what guy on CNBC said during the conference.

Shit yeah! I just need to decide what to get!

/air guitar solo

 

[Gary Whitta]

Shit yeah! I just need to decide what to get!

/air guitar solo

I was going to post a Bill & Ted pic but then I remembered that their phone had a broken antenna that they had to fix with duct tape too.

 

[Axion22]

you know, people are allowed to talk about Apple (the biggest tech company in the world) if they want. Just because it's not all unicorns and rainbows doesn't mean they're haters.

The biggest tech company in the world? :lol

 

[Ice Monkey]

then explain why putting duct tape around the edge of every other smart phone (earlier iPhone's included) doesn't magically make their reception increase?

apple realised this was an issue, which is why they're giving out the bumpers, and why you'll see a revision that fixes this supposedly impossible to fix phenomena (which is fixed by a rubber band! IMPOSSIBLE!)

Notice I didn't say the antenna bridging issue, I said the death grip issue. If you hold it with a crazy grip like all the other phones, there is signal loss. If I hold my iphone 4 that's in a case in a death grip position, I get signal loss. This is a common problem among recent phones that mandated by the FCC must have their antennas on the bottom of the device.

I already mentioned how the death-bridge issue is different entirely. They are giving out bumpers to fix the bridging/unshielded issue but theres no way to fix the "CUP MAH PHONE IN MAH HANDS" issue that every phone has.

 

[D4Danger]

The biggest tech company in the world? :lol

it's not? I'm pretty sure it is

 

[Gary Whitta]

The biggest tech company in the world? :lol

Why are you laughing?

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/apple-passes-microsoft/

 

[Ice Monkey]

unlearned question: for those who bought their iPhone from AT&T, do we have to go through AT&T to get a bumper, or can we mosy on into an Apple Store?

Seeing as how you can get any phone repaired through apple stores, I don't see why they wouldn't give you a free bumper just because you bought it from AT&T.

 

[BloodySinner]

Funny enough, Apple didn't really admit to the iPhone having a fault in it's design. What a douche company.

 

[Ice Monkey]

Why are you laughing?

He's not laughing. Did he ever tell you where his scars came from?

 

[Axion22]

it's not? I'm pretty sure it is

There's this company called Microsoft that makes more money than Apple and Google combined.

 

[Marty Chinn]

interesting points, but my response, and i hate to say this, is that apple's response to that would not have served to do anything but to sell newspapers. You can bet if they answered that straight on, it would be used front, back and sideways to poke more fun at apple.

It goes with what I previously said, they HAVE pointed out that the line between the antenna bands causes signal loss. It's on their website now, and they pointed it out in the presentation. That's all we can expect them to do. You can't expect them to answer a gotcha question like "heyyyy....even though the 4 gets better reception than the 3GS, ISNT THE ANTENNA DESIGN WORSE?!?" which would translate into a news headline of "Apple admits iphone 4 is worse than the 3GS! Details inside!" when this wouldn't be true in the slightest.

I'll reiterate, no good company policy would be to ridicule themselves. No company would just blatantly say their older product was a safer design. They'd get eaten alive more than they already are.

The whole death grip thing is common with all phones. That's why they even brought it up. The whole exposed antenna bridge thing is unique to the iphone 4. They aren't going to point it out and ridicule themselves. They aren't going to just start being emotional and say "sorry...please forgive us". They are saying sorry the way any other company would have, with something free to people who want the phone but have to do something about their problems. They even let you give up the phone with no cost. They are a company. Every other company would have done the same or less, or they wouldn't have done anything at all. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

The minority of educated people in the marketplace are the only people who would react positively to answers/statements like that, all the uneducated would be like "WHAT? the iphone 4 is worse than the 3GS? Gimme an EVO then!" The free bumper and the return policy are the gifts given to appease the informed minority.

I'm not trying to pass this off as the proven truth, it's just the way I see it. IMHO and such.

I think we all need to realize that Apple is and has always been a company just like microsoft. I've disliked microsoft for years but still choose to use windows because it fits my needs the best. Same as I keep using iPhones because I like their positives more than their negatives. I don't like Apple for probably more reasons than microsoft (FIX YOUR DAMN APPLE STORES AUGHHHHH! GIMME A CAMERA CONNECTION KIT PLEASE!)

I'm surprised more people can't be calmer about this and be realistic. The iphone 4 has a problem, we all know it, apple admits it, just be an informed consumer and make a decision based on the positives and negatives! Of course Apple is going to try and spin it in a positive light, you expect them to get up on stage and be negative? "We made a piece of shit, just return your phones and let us die a slow death"

I agree with what you said. Realistically, from a business standpoint this is the best course for them. Give just enough to try and deflect some of the negative PR lately, but not give too much to minimize your financial loss. As a consumer though, I would have liked them to have been less defensive and a bit more apologetic and even taking that extra step to look like they wanted to appease customers but it was more of a reactive response rather than a proactive one. Nintendo giving out free grips and replacing straps was more proactive because they not only got ahead of the problem but did more than what would have been expected.

Now what gets me is the people who are still trying to downplay this as if it was always a non issue and that people aren't really having problems. That this is all about media and Apple haters making a huge deal out of nothing. I'm fine with Apple's response, but I'm not fine with the defenders trying to downplay this.

 

[Ice Monkey]

Funny enough, Apple didn't really admit to the iPhone having a fault in it's design. What a douche company.

a fault in the design would be akin to telling everyone the 3GS is better than the 4, which it clearly is not. There's no way around this assumption if they said their brand new phone has a fault, so you are surprised they wouldn't sabotage their brand at a press conference?

They're providing bumpers for the low percentage of people who've reported problems. You expect them to tell the other 95% or whatever that haven't complained that they should stop being so ignorant and demand a refund?

 

[D4Danger]

There's this company called Microsoft that makes more money than Apple and Google combined.

okay. Look, I'm just going by their market cap (or however the stock thing works)

I don't know or care enough about either company's balance sheet to give a detailed opinion.

 

[Axion22]

okay. Look, I'm just going by their market cap (or however the stock thing works)

I don't know or care enough about either company's balance sheet to give a detailed opinion.

Market cap is neat, too, I guess.

 

[Ice Monkey]

I agree with what you said. Realistically, from a business standpoint this is the best course for them. Give just enough to try and deflect some of the negative PR lately, but not give too much to minimize your financial loss. As a consumer though, I would have liked them to have been less defensive and a bit more apologetic and even taking that extra step to look like they wanted to appease customers but it was more of a reactive response rather than a proactive one. Nintendo giving out free grips and replacing straps was more proactive because they not only got ahead of the problem but did more than what would have been expected.

Now what gets me is the people who are still trying to downplay this as if it was always a non issue and that people aren't really having problems. That this is all about media and Apple haters making a huge deal out of nothing. I'm fine with Apple's response, but I'm not fine with the defenders trying to downplay this.

I'm convinced a lot of people are treating apple as if it's their fun uncle down the street or something. It's a company that happens to have a huge face with the name "Steve Jobs". He's not your friend, he's the guy who heads a COMPANY that makes your smartphone that happens to be pretty damn good in order to make money.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'm convinced a lot of people are treating apple as if it's their fun uncle down the street or something. It's a company that happens to have a huge face with the name "Steve Jobs". He's not your friend, he's the guy who heads a COMPANY that makes your smartphone that happens to be pretty damn good in order to make money.

I think some were hoping that Apple would have said something like we've found a way to improve the connection while holding, but for now we're giving away free bumpers. If you feel that is still not enough, we will allow you to exchange for our upgraded design in the near future for a limited time. We apologize for any inconvience and are sorry to have let our faithful customers down like this.

 

[Gary Whitta]

There's this company called Microsoft that makes more money than Apple and Google combined.

Once again:

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/apple-passes-microsoft/

 

[jamieson87]

Well, mines works fine.

Cheers for the free case apl!

 

[Korey]

Can someone point me to the faulty antenna outrage threads for the following phones, because I can't seem to find them, thanks!

BlackBerry Bold 9700
HTC Droid Eris
Samsung Omnia II

 

[Jazzy Network]

I bet if you add all the Korean manufacturers together, they make more money than Apple.

Can someone point me to the faulty antenna outrage threads for the following phones, because I can't seem to find them, thanks!

BlackBerry Bold 9700
HTC Droid Eris
Samsung Omnia II

They're not iPhones, who cares?

 

[Tobor]

I agree with what you said. Realistically, from a business standpoint this is the best course for them. Give just enough to try and deflect some of the negative PR lately, but not give too much to minimize your financial loss. As a consumer though, I would have liked them to have been less defensive and a bit more apologetic and even taking that extra step to look like they wanted to appease customers but it was more of a reactive response rather than a proactive one. Nintendo giving out free grips and replacing straps was more proactive because they not only got ahead of the problem but did more than what would have been expected.

Now what gets me is the people who are still trying to downplay this as if it was always a non issue and that people aren't really having problems. That this is all about media and Apple haters making a huge deal out of nothing. I'm fine with Apple's response, but I'm not fine with the defenders trying to downplay this.

Get your facts straight, Marty. Nintendo updated the straps after 3 months, and gave out rubbers almost a year after launch.

Apple is doing it after 3 weeks. So don't give me that reactive-proactive crap.

 

[C Jones]

Can someone point me to the faulty antenna outrage threads for the following phones, because I can't seem to find them, thanks!

BlackBerry Bold 9700
HTC Droid Eris
Samsung Omnia II

Are those real phone names?

 

[Gary Whitta]

Can someone point me to the faulty antenna outrage threads for the following phones, because I can't seem to find them, thanks!

BlackBerry Bold 9700
HTC Droid Eris
Samsung Omnia II

Far smaller user base means far fewer people having a problem and far less outcry, even if the percentage of users having a problem is the same. Also less "sexy" companies means less media interest in the problem.

I remember seeing several YouTube videos of bar droppage on Android and other phones though, old ones that people started linking to after the iPhone 4 problem emerged.

 

[Axion22]

Once again:

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/apple-passes-microsoft/

I read that, and it's cute.

Now try this:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2010/06/25/microsoft-by-the-numbers.aspx

 

[Marty Chinn]

Get your facts straight, Marty. Nintendo updated the straps after 3 months, and gave out rubbers almost a year after launch.

Apple is doing it after 3 weeks. So don't give me that reactive-proactive crap.

But in Nintendo's situation, nobody was putting their head on a stake over it. I think Nintendo was more proactive about giving out free stuff when people weren't really clamoring for it. Sure some fun was being made at someone breaking their TV, but I don't think people were really holding Nintendo to do something about it.

Apple on the otherhand was playing it off, and I really have to question what Apple would have done based on their data which they clearly stated was so low in returns and Apple Care calls, if they would have done anything about it if Consumer Reports didn't call them out on it. Plus I'm saying they're being reactive by responding and doing what I feel is the bare minimum where as I felt Nintendo did more than they needed.

Like I said, I'm okay with Apple's response to all this, and I think it's reasonable, especially from a business standpoint. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked to see them take one step further to amend this.

 

[giga]

Sweet baby jesus does it fucking matter which company boasts bigger numbers?

 

[Axion22]

Sweet baby jesus does it fucking matter which company boasts bigger numbers?

No, I laughed and people wanted to know why. Nothing to see here, move along

 

[Gary Whitta]

I read that, and it's cute.

Now try this:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/microsoft_blog/archive/2010/06/25/microsoft-by-the-numbers.aspx

Those are Microsoft's numbers, which if we apply the same rules to as other have in this thread for Apple's data, can be taken with a pinch of salt, right?

Let's recap:

* Someone says Apple is the largest tech company in the world.
* You laugh as though this is not the case.
* Someone else posts independent factual data proving Apple is the largest tech company in the world.
* You just keep on truckin' because this is the internet where nobody ever concedes a point, ever.

 

[drknite]

Found this article interesting...

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/07/16/antennagate-is-us/

There is no Antennagate.

The Point

What am I getting at here? Well, I think this whole debacle demonstrates the power of the Internet to report in the wrong way, as opposed to the Tiger Woods incident, which I think demonstrated the Internet’s strengths (though it also resulted in my writing the “Choose Two” article I mentioned). When the event is what matters (e.g. Tiger Woods crashing his car with his wife beating on the windows), and updates on the granularity of minutes are warranted, the Internet is the perfect medium. But by applying that toolset to something it is totally unsuited for, we found ourselves groping in a dark and crowded echo chamber, grasping at factual straws and thrusting them into the faces of everyone we encountered. How little it accomplished! Apple is temporarily humbled, but they would have been one way or another. But they have the benefit of being unfairly set upon, of being able to quote hundreds of articles spewing FUD and unconfirmed nonsense — after all this, they get to play the victim card! That’s the real Antennagate.

Unfortunately, the solution is an impossible one. This is because the solution is discretion. Discretion and restraint are things that have more or less disappeared, since the benefits of being first and wrong outweigh the benefits of being late and right. The short-term benefits, I should say, in the form of traffic and popularity — very important metrics to the powers that be (advertisers and such). The long-term benefits of being a reliable source for news and analysis are becoming more and more difficult to discern, which is disturbing to me. Yet I still believe, and this whole thing has made me believe more, that perspective and discretion are as important as ever — and probably only as rare as they ever were to begin with. I’m not going to get all emotional on you here and say “oh no journalism is dying,” as if I know a thing about that, but let’s be honest: sometimes journalism can be pretty hard to find — even if you think you know where to look.

There you have it. I just wanted to put my own lid on this whole iPhone 4 thing, with the conclusions I’ve drawn from it. If it came off like Apple apologia, I don’t think you read closely enough. The way the world reports and is reported is going through all kinds of transitions, and one day I think that this whole thing and other stories like it are on their way to becoming case studies in Mass Communications 101.

Whole article at the link

 

[Axion22]

Those are Microsoft PR numbers, which if we apply the same rules to as other have in this thread for Apple's data, can be taken with a pinch of salt, right?

Let's recap:

* Someone says Apple was the largest tech company in the world.
* You laugh.
* Someone else posts independent factual data proving Apple is the largest company in the world.
* You just keep on truckin' because this is the internet where nobody ever concedes a point, ever.

No, I keep on trucking because it amused me that Wired's headline became the Bible and the only way to size up a company became market cap. It's still amusing.

 

[Gary Whitta]

No, I keep on trucking because it amused me that Wired's headline became the Bible and the only way to size up a company became market cap. It's still amusing.

What's amusing is that you'd rather go with a company's PR numbers over independent data from multiple sources, only one of which was Wired. :lol

And market cap isn't the only way to size up a company, merely one of the best and one by which a company can legitimately claim to be the largest.

 

[Marty Chinn]

What's amusing is that you'd rather go with a company's PR numbers over independent data from multiple sources, only one of which was Wired. :lol

Isn't that what Apple fans are doing with today's press conference though? Picking it over say Consumer Reports?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Isn't that what Apple fans are doing with today's press conference though? Picking it over say Consumer Reports?

What does this have to do with the article that Gary posted? Or are you just trolling again?

 

[Sullichin]

Isn't that what Apple fans are doing with today's press conference though? Picking it over say Consumer Reports?

Consumer Reports didn't have conflicting stats about the return rates of iPhones, calls to AppleCare, etc?

 

[Tobor]

But in Nintendo's situation, nobody was putting their head on a stake over it. I think Nintendo was more proactive about giving out free stuff when people weren't really clamoring for it. Sure some fun was being made at someone breaking their TV, but I don't think people were really holding Nintendo to do something about it.

Apple on the otherhand was playing it off, and I really have to question what Apple would have done based on their data which they clearly stated was so low in returns and Apple Care calls, if they would have done anything about it if Consumer Reports didn't call them out on it. Plus I'm saying they're being reactive by responding and doing what I feel is the bare minimum where as I felt Nintendo did more than they needed.

Like I said, I'm okay with Apple's response to all this, and I think it's reasonable, especially from a business standpoint. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have liked to see them take one step further to amend this.

Youre only proving my point, though. You concede that the two issues aren't really comparable, and that there was a huge gap in time between resolutions. Who knows what Nintendo would do if faced with an issue similar to this? It's all speculation. We know that if given a year, Nintendo will design and release a fix to a minor issue. Big deal, in a year, Apple will release a completely new product.

Its apples and oranges.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No, I keep on trucking because it amused me that Wired's headline became the Bible and the only way to size up a company became market cap. It's still amusing.

Fighting the good fight eh? Come now, stand down.

 

[D4Danger]

I wish i'd said nothing.

I'm just gonna go back to listening to podcasts and lurking

 

[Gary Whitta]

Isn't that what Apple fans are doing with today's press conference though? Picking it over say Consumer Reports?

Sure, and the anti-Apple crowd have been shooting those numbers down as unreliable because they're from Apple. So I'm just saying it's hypocritical to quote Microsoft numbers as being somehow less so. A company's numbers can't be legit when they support your point of view but bullshit when they don't.

 

[Purkake4]

Oh shit, son

(Obviously done before the conference)

 

[Axion22]

What's amusing is that you'd rather go with a company's PR numbers over independent data from multiple sources, only one of which was Wired. :lol

And market cap isn't the only way to size up a company, merely one of the best and one by which a company can legitimately claim to be the largest.

The numbers are real. They're the same ones here for Apple and here for Google.

I know it's been a long day, Gair, but I'm capable of detecting spin in PR, and the only spin there is the presentation, not the facts.

 

[Marty Chinn]

What does this have to do with the article that Gary posted? Or are you just trolling again?

It has to do with taking what Apple said today and treating it as gospel over all the reports about antenna issues from other sources. Not trolling at all. I'd actually be curious to see an independent source take the phones shown today and other phones and do an independent comparison of what happens to the signal under different conditions to see if what Apple said was true or if it was under controlled conditions to show their point.

 

[Gary Whitta]

The numbers are real. They're the same ones here for Apple and here for Google.

I know it's been a long day, Gair, but I'm capable of detecting spin in PR, and the only spin there is the presentation, not the facts.

Oh God, please don't call me Gair.

 

[C Jones]

Isn't that what Apple fans are doing with today's press conference though? Picking it over say Consumer Reports?

:lol

You are a trip man.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

.

 

[Axion22]

Oh God, please don't call me Gair.

Now that I did to be intentionally annoying. :lol

edit: I'll concede you this point: my amusement came late and off-topic in an already contentious thread. For that, I apologize.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Consumer Reports didn't have conflicting stats about the return rates of iPhones, calls to AppleCare, etc?

Apple implied the same thing happens on every phone include the 3GS, yet check this:

We also tested several other AT&T phones the same way, including the iPhone 3G S and the Palm Pre. None of those phones had the signal-loss problems of the iPhone 4.

 

[Vanillalite]

Fighting the good fight eh? Come now, stand down.

No the problem is people don't understand wtf market cap means. We had this issue when this shit all came out too about the market cap stuff in the thread about it on GAF. Not that this debate about the biggest tech company in the world even matters anyways especially in regards to this thread.

 

[scotcheggz]

Well, this was all a bit weird. I just hope they can come up with something better for next time. I had an upgrade due right when this story broke and it essentially left me with no choice with which smartphone platform to chose. If they fix it next time around I'll have a real choice, that would be nice.

 

[Gary Whitta]

Well, this was all a bit weird. I just hope they can come up with something better for next time. I had an upgrade due right when this story broke and it essentially left me with no choice with which smartphone platform to chose. If they fix it next time around I'll have a real choice, that would be nice.

Why not just take the iPhone with the free case? It's all good, baby!