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[Ice Monkey]

It's not unfair at all from him to complain. What was unfair was from Jobs to use competing phones to compare apples to oranges. The problem those other phones exhibit is simply not the same thing Iphone 4 has, or at least nowhere near to the same degree. What Jobs forgot to mention is that those other phones need an unnaturally strong handhold to exhibit signal attenuation (as you hand is acting as a signal shield), whereas with Iphone 4 it is just enough to touch it or hold it very lightly, because the hand in that case is not just a shield but a conductor touching the antennas.

I understand that. But please understand that there are two distinct issues here. One is the death grip, the other is the antenna strip. The death grip is present on likely every phone, as jobs tried to demonstrate with competing phones. The antenna strip thing where the antennas are bridge or detuned or whatever is a separated issue. He pointed out the "weak spot" as he called it, but didn't go into a whole thing about it because it would be bad business. It's a rare thing for a company to be even as open as they were about it.

The death grip is absolutely a separate issue because I can recreate it even with the bumper on. It's simply a ridiculous way to hold the phone. The vast majority of the people online poking fun of apple are gripping it like idiots and the phone loses signal, as every other phone does.

I agree he was vague about the difference between the issues, but like I said it's rare for a company to even say THIS MUCH within a few weeks of a product launch.

At this point I don't understand why people don't just see the iphone 4+bumper as the whole purchase, which gives you the option of removing the bumper if you prefer, and in all likelihood the phone will work. If you don't like the combination of bumper and iphone, and rage at the idea of using the phone with an unshielded antenna, just return the damn thing and stop being such masochists.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I canceled my online order for a bumper and just went to the Apple store to pick one up.
I'm so glad my problem with the "death grip" is solved!


But wait. It's not.

Right now, bumper on, holding "correctly":

Right now, bumper on, "death grip":

So.............wait, what?
I think I need a new phone. =/

Edit: On the bright side--at least I now have 3 bars instead of 5 in my house--and they don't drop when I hold my phone over it's weak spot!

MASSIVE DAMAGE! :lol :lol

 

[LCfiner]

is your death grip actually a death grip or is it just holding naturally in your left hand?

 

[Ice Monkey]

I canceled my online order for a bumper and just went to the Apple store to pick one up.
I'm so glad my problem with the "death grip" is solved!


But wait. It's not.

MASSIVE DAMAGE! :lol :lol

"Death gripping" any phone will make it lose its signal. That was like half the point of the apple conference.

The bumper, however solves the "dainty poking of the antenna band" problem which is unique to, and a hardware fault of, the iphone 4.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I understand that. But please understand that there are two distinct issues here. One is the death grip, the other is the antenna strip. The death grip is present on likely every phone, as jobs tried to demonstrate with competing phones. The antenna strip thing where the antennas are bridge or detuned or whatever is a separated issue. He pointed out the "weak spot" as he called it, but didn't go into a whole thing about it because it would be bad business. It's a rare thing for a company to be even as open as they were about it.

The death grip is absolutely a separate issue because I can recreate it even with the bumper on. It's simply a ridiculous way to hold the phone. The vast majority of the people online poking fun of apple are gripping it like idiots and the phone loses signal, as every other phone does.

I agree he was vague about the difference between the issues, but like I said it's rare for a company to even say THIS MUCH within a few weeks of a product launch.

At this point I don't understand why people don't just see the iphone 4+bumper as the whole purchase, which gives you the option of removing the bumper if you prefer, and in all likelihood the phone will work. If you don't like the combination of bumper and iphone, and rage at the idea of using the phone with an unshielded antenna, just return the damn thing and stop being such masochists.

So you don't think that Apple's vague way of not distinguishing the two doesn't try to imply that they are the same? It's pr spin to make one seem like it's caused by the other and everything is ok. They tried to do that before when they announced the software update. While they never lie by saying they are related, you can be sure that they think people will come to that conclusion. So because of that, I can see why RIM would be pissed because Apple blurred the line and mashed them together to make it sound like RIM has the same issue. I don't think RIM's statement is unfair at all. It is completely justified.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

I'm sorry, let me clarify: I'm not squeezing the fuck out of the phone, just holding it and covering the area.

At this point, I'm pretty sure I just have a bad phone. My problems were consistently bad with this issue, and now this case (which is actually kind of nice) isn't fixing it--even though that was supposed to be the cure for everyone.

 

[Zombie James]

RIM fights back:

“Apple’s attempt to draw RIM into Apple’s self-made debacle is unacceptable. Apple’s claims about RIM products appear to be deliberate attempts to distort the public’s understanding of an antenna design issue and to deflect attention from Apple’s difficult situation. RIM is a global leader in antenna design and has been successfully designing industry-leading wireless data products with efficient and effective radio performance for over 20 years. During that time, RIM has avoided designs like the one Apple used in the iPhone 4 and instead has used innovative designs which reduce the risk for dropped calls, especially in areas of lower coverage. One thing is for certain, RIM’s customers don’t need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity. Apple clearly made certain design decisions and it should take responsibility for these decisions rather than trying to draw RIM and others into a situation that relates specifically to Apple.”

 

[teh_pwn]

Wait, what's with this notion that all phones have antenna design death grip flaws? My 4 year old LG non-smart phone has only dropped a call once ever, and I'm not even sure if it's because my phone dropped it or the other end hung up.

 

[Marty Chinn]

Wait, what's with this notion that all phones have antenna design death grip flaws? My 4 year old LG non-smart phone has only dropped a call once ever, and I'm not even sure if it's because my phone dropped it or the other end hung up.

Apple said that all phones had this problem and proceeded to show some. You can even see these examples on Apple's website.

 

[C.Dark.DN]

Apple said that all phones had this problem and proceeded to show some. You can even see these examples on Apple's website.

All? Where is the data for previous gen iPhones and current top competetor models?

 

[Nazgul_Hunter]

All? Where is the data for previous gen iPhones and current top competetor models?

Bottom of the page is the 3GS

 

[Sean]

Wait, what's with this notion that all phones have antenna design death grip flaws? My 4 year old LG non-smart phone has only dropped a call once ever, and I'm not even sure if it's because my phone dropped it or the other end hung up.

AFAIK it's mostly recent phones/smartphones that have this problem because of an FCC mandate that you can't have the antenna at the top of the phone anymore (to keep radiation away from persons head) or something like that. So manufacturers are forced to put antenna near the bottom now where peoples hand are covering it.

They had some antenna designer expert dude on a recent TWiT podcast (maybe last weeks or the week before that) that cleared some of this stuff up.

 

[teh_pwn]

AFAIK it's mostly recent phones/smartphones that have this problem because of an FCC mandate that you can't have the antenna at the top of the phone anymore (to keep radiation away from persons head) or something like that. So manufacturers are forced to put antenna near the bottom now where peoples hand are covering it.

They had some antenna designer expert dude on a recent TWiT podcast (maybe last weeks or the week before that) that cleared some of this stuff up.

Yeah, I've got one of those antenna stubs at the top. Odd the government is so quick to regulate something with weak evidence but so slow to regulate the overwhelming evidence that cell phone use while driving is like drunk driving.

 

[tfur]

Anand tech already showed that none of the other phones drop signal as badly as the iphone 4. They tested all forms of holding and trying to make signals drop. People who keep saying that all phones drop as badly as the iphone 4 are just plain wrong.

The iphone 4 has a design flaw that other phones do not have.

 

[JayDub]

Wait, what's with this notion that all phones have antenna design death grip flaws? My 4 year old LG non-smart phone has only dropped a call once ever, and I'm not even sure if it's because my phone dropped it or the other end hung up.

Death. Grip.

Death grip any phone on the lower left hand corner and there will be signal drops.

According to Apple.

This death grip crap is stupid.

"Hey guys, if I cut my car's antenna my FM radio goes out"


Well DONT CUT IT OFF. Holy crap.

 

[Karma]

"Death gripping" any phone will make it lose its signal. That was like half the point of the apple conference.

The bumper, however solves the "dainty poking of the antenna band" problem which is unique to, and a hardware fault of, the iphone 4.

Death. Grip.

Death grip any phone on the lower left hand corner and there will be signal drops.

According to Apple.

This death grip crap is stupid.

"Hey guys, if I cut my car's antenna my FM radio goes out"


Well DONT CUT IT OFF. Holy crap.

Bullshit. My phone doesnt.

 

[dLMN8R]

Look, comparisons to other phones or not, the fact is that Steve Jobs got on stage more than a month ago and proclaimed that their new antenna design was revolutionary, magical, or whatever fucking absurd hyperbole of the day he decided on.

Yesterday, he himself said that the iPhone 4 is dropping more calls than the iPhone 3GS.


Why the hell are people defending this? They deliberately chose form over function, in the most explicit example possible. The new design is objectively worse when it comes to dropped calls, straight out of Steve Jobs' mouth.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The death grip is absolutely a separate issue because I can recreate it even with the bumper on. It's simply a ridiculous way to hold the phone.

what the fuck.

it's not fucking "ridiculous". I'm going to fucking lose my mind if people keep trying to suggest you have to do something strange to cause the death grip action. it's a perfectly normal way to hold the phone. as I've demonstrated with pictures more than once now. why people keep suggesting it's not a way people hold the phone is beyond my realm of comprehension.

please stop saying that nonsense. it's a normal way to hold the phone.

and separating the antenna issue into 2 issues sounds like a large load of bullshit, by the way. it sounds like PR trying to get people's eyes off the ball: the location of the strip o' death causes heavier than normal signal degradation under normal usage when holding the phone a standard way. the issue can be "patched" or "masked" to some degree by way of case or heavy tape, but it won't be "gone" (by gone, we really mean less attenuation more in line with what we see from other phones) until they relocate the "seam". That relocation may come in a stealth upgrade to the phone's hardware...or it may not come until the iPhone 5. who knows. But you can bet your ass that no matter how many moral relativistic arguments Apple makes, their next iPhone will NOT have a seam on the lower left side of the phone. PERIOD.

THAT is still the ultimate truth. Those that accept it from now on can accept it with full knowledge and understanding of the situation. It's not a terrible thing, but it is an inconvenience that people should consider, as it may affect their enjoyment of the phone.

Bullshit. My phone doesnt.

send someone at AT&T a thank you card. it's AT&T that deserves credit for your phone not dropping bars (you have a very strong signal); not Apple or their design team.

Yesterday, he himself said that the iPhone 4 is dropping more calls than the iPhone 3GS.

did he really? interesting. all I can say is I haven't dropped a call yet. ymmv.

 

[ZZMitch]

Bullshit. My phone doesnt.

Yeah, I have tried all sorts of weird grips in my droid and never lost signal :lol

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Yeah, I have tried all sorts of weird grips in my droid and never lost signal :lol

ooooh. I didn't realize he was talking about a different brand of phone.

oops.

I canceled my online order for a bumper and just went to the Apple store to pick one up.
I'm so glad my problem with the "death grip" is solved!


But wait. It's not.

Right now, bumper on, holding "correctly":

Right now, bumper on, "death grip":

So.............wait, what?
I think I need a new phone. =/

Edit: On the bright side--at least I now have 3 bars instead of 5 in my house--and they don't drop when I hold my phone over it's weak spot!

MASSIVE DAMAGE! :lol :lol

I'm now super excited to go pick up my free rubber band. :-/

 

[Karma]

send someone at AT&T a thank you card. it's AT&T that deserves credit for your phone not dropping bars (you have a very strong signal); not Apple or their design team.

Will need to send Verizon and Motorola a thank you card. I have a Droid. No case needed.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Will need to send Verizon and Motorola a thank you card. I have a Droid. No case needed.

yah, I saw that later. :lol

again, all I can say for sure is that my iPhone 4 has not dropped a call yet. I did notice the web wasn't moving fast once or twice...but nothing that felt particularly intrusive.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

oh, glad to see RIM and Nokia called apple out on their bullshit today. Nice press release comments. short and sweet.

 

[robertsan21]

what I have heard is the following:

in other countries where the iPhone4 has been released this "deathgrip" thing is non existing.

its seems that its only located in the USA, reason...BAD 3g networks + bad antenna design= dropped calls and bad signal.

in a country with really good 3G networks its not a problem.

USA´s 3G networks are like the ones we had here in sweden back in 2003.
now we have to hope that we dont see these problems with the upcoming release of iPhone4 here in sweden

 

[Dreams-Visions]

in a country with really good 3G networks its not a problem.

if you live and spend all of your time around a strong network signal, you are correct; you will not have a problem. the attenuation isn't enough to affect calls where a strong signal is present.

USA´s 3G networks are like the ones we had here in sweden back in 2003.

well of course. the USA has 9,179,127 sq mi more land to cover. so yea, when you have 21x the amount of space to cover--a lot of which is rural--it is natural to expect it to take longer.

 

[moniker]

well of course. the USA has 9,179,127 sq mi more land to cover. so yea, when you have 21x the amount of space to cover--a lot of which is rural--it is natural to expect it to take longer.

Shouldn't that be somewhat offset by the fact that USA has vastly more resources though?

And this - population density / km^2:

USA: 32.167
Sweden: 20.725

The real answer though is that Sweden has, since the 90s, made a conscious effort to build great IT infrastructure.

 

[Ice Monkey]

So you don't think that Apple's vague way of not distinguishing the two doesn't try to imply that they are the same? It's pr spin to make one seem like it's caused by the other and everything is ok. They tried to do that before when they announced the software update. While they never lie by saying they are related, you can be sure that they think people will come to that conclusion. So because of that, I can see why RIM would be pissed because Apple blurred the line and mashed them together to make it sound like RIM has the same issue. I don't think RIM's statement is unfair at all. It is completely justified.

eh, I've got conflicting ideas about the whole thing. I don't like the pr spin, and disapprove passively of Apple being vague, but at the same time I feel as if it's up to the informed among us to realize what Apple is actually saying and understand that they can't open up and further for fear that the cretins who thrive on sensationalism will crucify them.

In a similar way, I disapprove of RIM even getting into the whole "PR spin because it's necessary in business" debacle, because Apple didn't really slam them at all. It's a known fact about phones. It feels akin to RIM whining and be like "go pick on Brand X's smartphone instead of us", since every phone other than the old ones with the antenna at the top have a death grip problem. On the other hand I understand why RIM needs to save face and "PR spin because it's necessary in business" and bash apple for even mentioning their name, because RIM is just That Good (TM).

I feel like it wouldn't bother any of us, the informed tech geek crowd, if there were...i dunno...drinks at RIM's place with Apple and HTC all there having a cigar all kicking back and laughing about all the bullshit they need to wade through in order to keep the sensationalist idiots from picking apart their every sentences and/or disgusted at the lack of response to a "slam" (i.e.: RIM).

 

[Jewbacca]

Well after all is said in done, id say 90% of iphone4 users are satisfied now and the look other phones do it too bullshit was total garbage.

I do find this all humorous though.

 

[Xyphie]

The real answer though is that Sweden has, since the 90s, made a conscious effort to build great IT infrastructure.

Also, the Swedish carriers actually make an effort to collaborate on network infrastructure (Telia+Tele2 and Telenor+3) which benefits everyone instead of everyone using different incompatible standards like in the US. :lol

 

[Ice Monkey]

Look, comparisons to other phones or not, the fact is that Steve Jobs got on stage more than a month ago and proclaimed that their new antenna design was revolutionary, magical, or whatever fucking absurd hyperbole of the day he decided on.

I still think the antenna is pretty damn good....for AT&T. verizon phones don't need this kind of nonsense. AT&T is just something you have to suck down and deal with if you want an iphone.

what the fuck.

it's not fucking "ridiculous". I'm going to fucking lose my mind if people keep trying to suggest you have to do something strange to cause the death grip action. it's a perfectly normal way to hold the phone. as I've demonstrated with pictures more than once now. why people keep suggesting it's not a way people hold the phone is beyond my realm of comprehension.

please stop saying that nonsense. it's a normal way to hold the phone.

no need to get angry, you're misunderstanding me somehow. I'm talking about the DEATH GRIP, not a normal grip like you're equating to the death grip. I.E.: the way you'd hold the phone when walking over lava. There shouldn't be any confusion here.

When I hold my iphone in a normal grip with the bumper on, I get no signal problems. And I can't see how anyone else would either, but hey everyone's entitled to their own anecdotes.

HOWEVER, if I death grip, kung fu grip, ninja grip whatever you want to call it, the absurd way they were holding the phone in those pictures they were showing, i.e.: squeezing it like you're trying to destroy it which can't possibly be normal for anyone sane, I will get signal problems, as I'm assuming you will in other phones like apple showed. I don't have an android phone to test, but my GF's blackberry does lose signal too.

Actually, I just now tried the crazy death grip with my bumper on and didn't notice any drop in signal. I don't even know what I must have been smoking when I thought it did.

Yeah, I have tried all sorts of weird grips in my droid and never lost signal :lol

Of course not, it's because we have the damned Death Star as our carrier that we have this problem to begin with.

 

[345triangle]

Shouldn't that be somewhat offset by the fact that USA has vastly more resources though?

And this - population density / km^2:

USA: 32.167
Sweden: 20.725

The real answer though is that Sweden has, since the 90s, made a conscious effort to build great IT infrastructure.

yeah, exactly this. i'd also say there's a lot more strain on the networks in countries like south korea or japan, but there aren't really any problems with the iphone because the carriers actually invest in infrastructure.

american voices are louder than others on the internet, that's just the way it is.

 

[Backfoggen]

I canceled my online order for a bumper and just went to the Apple store to pick one up.
I'm so glad my problem with the "death grip" is solved!


But wait. It's not.

Right now, bumper on, holding "correctly":
Right now, bumper on, "death grip":

So.............wait, what?
I think I need a new phone. =/

Edit: On the bright side--at least I now have 3 bars instead of 5 in my house--and they don't drop when I hold my phone over it's weak spot!

MASSIVE DAMAGE! :lol :lol

What the fuck? Is anyone with a bumper experiencing the same thing?

 

[LCfiner]

Testing signal with the bumper on makes very little sense here considering that this is a design issue with an external antenna.

@ice monkey. Take off the bumper and hold it naturally in your right hand. You may lose one bar. Now hold it naturally with your left hand or death grip it with your left hand. You could lose two bars easily or more depending where you are. That weak spot apple talked about is very easy for a left handed person to touch when talking.

That drop is not AT&T problem. That delta is apple's problem. At least with 4.0.1, there won't be a drop from five to one bar since that old five bar signal now shows up as three.

 

[Cronos]

HTC Benelux manager Mark Moons also attacked the Apple press conference via Twitter:

'Loopt Jobs nou te mauwen over de ontvangst van concurrenten om zijn eigen designfout goed te praten?'

loosely translated from Dutch:

Is Jobs yapping about the reception of the competitors to extenuate his own design flaws?

Also:

....ok, Ben gestopt met het volgen van dat huilverhaal van dat vruchtje.... heb betere dingen te doen...

loosely translated:

ok, stopped following his sobstory, got better things to do.

You can find it here:

http://twitter.com/markmoons

 

[XMonkey]

AFAIK it's mostly recent phones/smartphones that have this problem because of an FCC mandate that you can't have the antenna at the top of the phone anymore (to keep radiation away from persons head) or something like that. So manufacturers are forced to put antenna near the bottom now where peoples hand are covering it.

I don't believe this is true. The only thing the FCC cares about is the radiation (SAR) level of the phone. Manufacturers started putting antennas in the bottom of the phones so that it's harder to reach the FCC threshold. There isn't anything barring them from putting an antenna up top, only that it can make it harder to get the right SAR levels depending on how the phone is designed.

Besides, think about it... Apple doesn't have their antenna on the bottom of the iPhone 4. It's all around the phone. There's obviously no restriction on where you place the antenna.

Testing signal with the bumper on makes very little sense here considering that this is a design issue with an external antenna.

It makes sense in the context that the bumper is the supposed "solution" and yet it isn't solving anything for him.

 

[Korey]

yeah, exactly this. i'd also say there's a lot more strain on the networks in countries like south korea or japan, but there aren't really any problems with the iphone because the carriers actually invest in infrastructure.

american voices are louder than others on the internet, that's just the way it is.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-9-18/32426.html

Finally, South Korea’s dense population has augmented broadband development. With 70 percent of its 48 million citizens living in the seven biggest cities, and with many households in high-rise buildings near phone company facilities, deployment of broadband has logistically been much easier and cheaper than in less densely populated countries.

http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/networking/2004/07/28/broadband-how-south-korea-leads-the-way-39162027/

Many US executives and policy makers are quick to dismiss the disparity, noting correctly that South Korea's densely populated areas have made it easier for telecommunications companies to offer extremely fast service to large numbers of people. But even with such geographic and demographic differences, the United States can learn some valuable lessons from South Korea's experience in jump-starting a broadband powerhouse.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/03/31/broadband.south.korea/index.html

Population density

South Korea, with more than 1,200 people per square mile, is a lot denser than the United States, where 88 people live in the same amount of space, and where rural areas and suburbs are large.

The result for broadband? It costs less to set up Internet infrastructure in a tightly populated place filled with high-rise-apartments, such as South Korea, than it does in the United States, where rural homes can be great distances apart.

In both countries, copper wires tend to carry broadband signals from fiber optic cables and into the home. Data can travel fast on copper wire, but it slows down the farther it goes.

In South Korea, that's usually just from the base of an apartment building to a particular unit. In the U.S., copper wire may have to link a home with a fiber optic cable that's a mile away.

It doesn't have as much to do with "density" per se as it just has to do with the US being an extremely large country, so any dedication for the federal government to go all in on a next gen broadband deployment plan is a nightmare in logistics/resources/execution. Not even the entire country has basic broadband yet, and Obama has pushed for expansion of it to more rural areas. That's where the broadband resources are currently going, and the country overall has higher priorities.

 

[JayDub]

Why didn't they demonstrate the signal loss on the other phones live?

Pretty sure those vids were doctored.

I know people with ALL those phones, and none of them have that issue:lol

Check this shit out.

I've never once death gripped ANY phone before all this non-sense. And to clarify, im talking "death grip." As in cover the lower part of your phone tightly. Some of you are reading "death grip" as "holding phone regularly." :lol

Anyways, never death gripped any phone before all this, and so I started doing it to my girl's 3G. GUESS WHAT? I had to hold it TIGHTLY, and wait a good 10 seconds before the bars dropped.

Now, shes been using it for years, holding it in all sorts of ways, but she NEVER noticed this, and the bars have never dropped depending on how she held it.

So, this problem is caused by actually trying to make it go down. Whats the problem, again?

EDIT:

Just tried it again, it needed to be held TIGHTLY before it would go down. I loosened my grip while keeping it in the same position, and the bars went up.

Again, you have to try to make this shit happen.

 

[LCfiner]

It makes sense in the context that the bumper is the supposed "solution" and yet it isn't solving anything for him.

But he's not saying that he's having any problems. A crazy death grip with a bumper is not normal operation. I'm talking about ice monkey, here.

What I'm saying is that if he wants to have a chance of replicating a real problem, he needs to take the bumper off and try holding it in his left and right hands to see how much signal gets attenuated where he lives. And not in a death grip.

The iPhone's problem is that it can drop signal in a normal holding position, no need to tightly grip it to lose a lot of bars. That key spot can be hit with a right hand pinkie or a left hand palm.

 

[wolfmat]

Alright, yesterday I had a blast playing Magic (the real deal, not Planeswalkers) with a friend instead of listening to the conf.

Of course, I checked it out just now to see what's up.

And you gotta admit, noone can really complain (on the customer's bench).
- You don't like it ~> refund
- Case is free
- Bars algorithm properly adjusted

If they had released the thing with the fucking case bolted onto it from the getgo, this whole PR disaster wouldn't have happened and everybody would have enjoyed their iPhone like they usually did. That also speaks volumes, but hey, again, if you don't like it etc.

So anybody who's going off about Antennagate after this conference is either one of the accused phone manufacturers and wants to get things straight, an engineer / company proposing a solution or someone who would do a better job shutting the fuck up.

Still, although the presentation itself was impressive in terms of rhetorics and shit, it was in bad form. You don't just go around saying "Look how shitty the general situation actually is", pointing at other manufacturers and showing how this whole antenna magic is actually being tested. That's like saying nothing at all.

They didn't really handle this PR disaster well. But it's not a biggie for consumers. At least until Sep 30th.

 

[345triangle]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/5-9-18/32426.html


http://www.zdnet.co.uk/news/networking/2004/07/28/broadband-how-south-korea-leads-the-way-39162027/


http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/03/31/broadband.south.korea/index.html


It doesn't have as much to do with "density" per se as it just has to do with the US being an extremely large country, so any dedication for the federal government to go all in on a next gen broadband deployment plan is a nightmare in logistics/resources/execution. Not even the entire country has basic broadband yet, and Obama has pushed for expansion of it to more rural areas. That's where the broadband resources are currently going, and the country overall has higher priorities.

sure, deployment of the networks is easier in places like that, but keeping the bottleneck wide enough is a whole lot harder and requires a much greater investment per square foot or whatever than the US networks appear to have been willing to put in (even with all that extra revenue from charging people to receive texts!). that's why the biggest problems with AT&T are in places like new york city, where logically the coverage should be strongest - people get dropped calls even with 5 bars, though, because there's simply too much traffic.

i'm not saying the US doesn't have its own unique challenges, i'm saying they're not insurmountable and yet are exacerbated by, as you say, the country's priorities.

plus, who knows how the iphone would perform on verizon!

 

[XMonkey]

But he's not saying that he's having any problems. A crazy death grip with a bumper is not normal operation. I'm talking about ice monkey, here.

Oh, I'm talking about SnakeswithLasers who is "not squeezing the fuck out of the phone, just holding it and covering the area."

 

[LCfiner]

Oh, I'm talking about SnakeswithLasers who is "not squeezing the fuck out of the phone, just holding it and covering the area."

Yeah, he needs to get a new phone.

 

[Jewbacca]

Eh just tried it with my myTouch 3G

No grip -63dBm 25asu to -89dBm 12asu

Normal Holding (Left Handed, Thumb on left side of phone with meat of palm touching the base, index finger up the back middle, and the other 3 fingers on the right side with knuckle of pinky also touching the base) -89dBM 12asu to 101dBm 6asu

DEATH GRIB (firm clutch on bottom half of phone completely covering) the lowest I got it was -109 2asu

the problem exists, but thats why you have R&D and you test things.

 

[jambo]

I'll be grabbing an iPhone 4 and a free bumper case on July 30th in Australia ^_^

 

[Korey]

Alright, yesterday I had a blast playing Magic (the real deal, not Planeswalkers) with a friend instead of listening to the conf.

Of course, I checked it out just now to see what's up.

And you gotta admit, noone can really complain (on the customer's bench).
- You don't like it ~> refund
- Case is free
- Bars algorithm properly adjusted

If they had released the thing with the fucking case bolted onto it from the getgo, this whole PR disaster wouldn't have happened and everybody would have enjoyed their iPhone like they usually did. That also speaks volumes, but hey, again, if you don't like it etc.

So anybody who's going off about Antennagate after this conference is either one of the accused phone manufacturers and wants to get things straight, an engineer / company proposing a solution or someone who would do a better job shutting the fuck up.

Still, although the presentation itself was impressive in terms of rhetorics and shit, it was in bad form. You don't just go around saying "Look how shitty the general situation actually is", pointing at other manufacturers and showing how this whole antenna magic is actually being tested. That's like saying nothing at all.

They didn't really handle this PR disaster well. But it's not a biggie for consumers. At least until Sep 30th.

I agree with this post. Both the customers and Apple are at fault here.

a) Customers - You have a solution -> return your iPhone for a full refund. Of course you're not going to do that because you love the iPhone too much and so you won't do the best possible thing in this situation which is to vote with your wallet. So just get the free case and deal with it because a) there's nothing else you can do since Apple is not revising the hardware and b) there are more important things in life to care about. And just hope for the best for the next hardware revision iPhone 4S which you will undoubtedly auto-camp outside for on Day 1 midnight launch and pay full price for.

b) Apple - Didn't take any responsibility at all at the conference. Dragged a bunch of other phone manufacturers into this even though the comparisons were invalid since you have to suffocate their phones with a crazy grip while recording it on a camcorder for their bars to drop while on the iPhone all it takes is lightly holding it in a natural way with minimal pressure. Showed off their $100 million dollar testing facility to prove....that it was a giant waste of money since your phone still ended up faulty?

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

I like how Apple and Jobs decided to fess up the concepts of "signal attenuation caused by putting massive amounts of meat around some other phone maker's antenna" and "detuning the iPhone 4 antenna by merely, lightly touching two spots on its exterior antenna".

This is a recall worthy fault.

 

[LCfiner]

I like how Apple and Jobs decided to fess up the concepts of "signal attenuation caused by putting massive amounts of meat around some other phone maker's antenna" and "detuning the iPhone 4 antenna by merely, lightly touching two spots on its exterior antenna".

This is a recall worthy fault.

Yeah, to all the people who don't own one, apparently.

A recall for this would be retarded. The design has a flaw but it's not bad enough in practice to warrant a recall.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

b) Apple - Didn't take any responsibility at all at the conference.

Whoa whoa whoaaaa..I can quote from the conference: "We aren't perfect" "We screwed up"

How is that not taking responsibility?

I still don't get this "Fix it Apple" as there is no fix for this shit, it's in every phone (read: almost?).

It's got to a simple conclusion now, Apple have said what they have to say:

-Return the phone
-Don't buy the phone
-Get a free bumper

What else needs to be said now? Everything now is simple just unnecessary frothing at the mouth by you know who. It's simple now. Buy or don't buy

 

[tabsina]

Whoa whoa whoaaaa..I can quote from the conference: "We aren't perfect" "We screwed up"

How is that not taking responsibility?

I still don't get this "Fix it Apple" as there is no fix for this shit, it's in every phone (read: almost?).

It's got to a simple conclusion now, Apple have said what they have to say:

-Return the phone
-Don't buy the phone
-Get a free bumper

What else needs to be said now? Everything now is simple just unnecessary frothing at the mouth by you know who. It's simple now. Buy or don't buy

I agree that the solution provided is good enough, but don't buy into Jobs' argument that this is the issue faced by [almost] all phones - it isn't.. at least, not nearly to the extent of this phone, where one finger is all it needs to drop out

I'm glad that they have offered the free bumper solution, I've been telling my family members who went ahead and bought this phone to wait for the possibility of a free case, and I'm glad that has happened - and they are happy too

 

[wolfmat]

Whoa whoa whoaaaa..I can quote from the conference: "We aren't perfect" "We screwed up"

How is that not taking responsibility?

They said that, yeah, but then they deflected unnecessarily, and that wasn't appropriate.

-Return the phone
-Don't buy the phone
-Get a free bumper

See, that should have been the conference. That would have sufficed, with a bit of sugar on top, of course. They didn't even have to say "We aren't perfect" because NO SHIT they aren't perfect, noone assumed they were, why talk about it? They didn't have to excuse for anything either. Sure they're doing research, that's what they do.
Point out how you deal with it, curtains.
The other "facts" they pointed out (how do I confirm these? How are these facts relevant at all?) were in bad form. Pointing fingers, pulling out statistics and all — pretty desperate for no reason.

So rhetorics-wise, great stuff as always. But under the blanket, it was an erect middle finger to everybody who isn't a customer. Why do that?

I mean, who cares really, what matters is how they deal with it, and they're doing the right thing here if they can't magically fix the issue. So after taxes, it's still all good.