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Applying for jobs is exhausting and soul-crushing
- Thread starter Moofers
- Start date
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
I remember reading how attractive people get hired more frequently over more qualified people.
It sucks. Especially when you wait and wait only to hear a rejection three weeks after applying. 
After graduating uni, i unfortunately could not work due to a certain situation. So i ended up volunteering and putting lots of hours in that.
Due to my don't half ass things personality, i basically work very hard. Sometimes it feels like more than my supervisors. So it sucks because it feels like i'm working for free
Luckily my situation has changed and i can work now. But it's been a struggle getting even just an interview. Right now i'm still looking for positions that will benefit my CV for grad school but eventually i'll just take any job i can get. I really just want to start getting paid.
After graduating uni, i unfortunately could not work due to a certain situation. So i ended up volunteering and putting lots of hours in that.
Due to my don't half ass things personality, i basically work very hard. Sometimes it feels like more than my supervisors. So it sucks because it feels like i'm working for free
Luckily my situation has changed and i can work now. But it's been a struggle getting even just an interview. Right now i'm still looking for positions that will benefit my CV for grad school but eventually i'll just take any job i can get. I really just want to start getting paid.
Someone in another thread said his school had a job lottery where candidates and employers rated each other and were paired by an algorithm. That would be quite a shock to labor markets.
Well, I'm sure there's broad public policy reforms put out there by advocacy groups, but it's a buyer's market for employers right now and there's no incentive for them to make the process any easier on you. The supply of candidates currently far outstrips demand.
TheSadRanger
Banned
I always find myself trying to think up of dumb "get rich schemes" whenever I'm unemployed. I know it's not very productive but I keep thinking "If I could only make that next potato salad kickstarter I'd be set!!"
That sounds about right. When I started my search, I put links to a portfolio project in my cover letter. I could tell nobody was looking at it based on view metrics. I got way better results when I just described it on my resume. I think the interviewer for my current job Googled my project so he could play it.
NYTimes article: Why I Do All My Recruiting Through LinkedIn
I read this article yesterday from the perspective of an employer that really made me realize why applying for jobs through the most well-known job boards just doesn't work for most people.
It basically works like this, even if you yourself are a hard-working, qualified individual who just needs a chance to prove himself, if you reply through those services you're going to be seen as a loser by association by being amongst the 200 other people who also replied to the ad, 90% of whom are grammatically challenged, devoid of any skills or knowledge, have no high school diploma, and are too burdened by the need for daycare, transportation, and life necessities to really concentrate on work. You'll have to find other avenues to get noticed.
I read this article yesterday from the perspective of an employer that really made me realize why applying for jobs through the most well-known job boards just doesn't work for most people.
NYTimes said:
It basically works like this, even if you yourself are a hard-working, qualified individual who just needs a chance to prove himself, if you reply through those services you're going to be seen as a loser by association by being amongst the 200 other people who also replied to the ad, 90% of whom are grammatically challenged, devoid of any skills or knowledge, have no high school diploma, and are too burdened by the need for daycare, transportation, and life necessities to really concentrate on work. You'll have to find other avenues to get noticed.
I lost my assistant retail store management job of seven years at the end of April. My boss just decided to close the business down to move on, so I was out of luck. I have been searching for work every since then. My unemployment runs out in a month or so as well. We bought our first house in September of last year, so my back is up against the wall. Had I known my boss was going to close down we wouldn't even have bought the house.
As a last resort I am taking an insurance class this week from 8 to 5:30 to get licensed in property and casualty. Since the class started I have had four possible job offers presented to me. I truly hope this leads to something. It isn't really what I want to do, but at least it's something. I also plan to get my real estate license and dive into that. I'm trying my best to piece something together. I have to. I have no choice.
Oh, and to the OP, yes, it can crush your spirits beyond words. I may not have acted as such on here for the last few months, but I have been incredibly depressed dealing with this since the end of April. There are bad days, and really just worse days. I haven't had any hope AT ALL until this week.
Oh, and don't get me started on two jobs I THOUGHT I had during this time, from former people that did business with us. I have been flat out scammed and screwed over not once, but twice since late April. I have very little faith and trust in people because of that right now. I really hope that changes, and soon. Blah.
As a last resort I am taking an insurance class this week from 8 to 5:30 to get licensed in property and casualty. Since the class started I have had four possible job offers presented to me. I truly hope this leads to something. It isn't really what I want to do, but at least it's something. I also plan to get my real estate license and dive into that. I'm trying my best to piece something together. I have to. I have no choice.
Oh, and to the OP, yes, it can crush your spirits beyond words. I may not have acted as such on here for the last few months, but I have been incredibly depressed dealing with this since the end of April. There are bad days, and really just worse days. I haven't had any hope AT ALL until this week.
Oh, and don't get me started on two jobs I THOUGHT I had during this time, from former people that did business with us. I have been flat out scammed and screwed over not once, but twice since late April. I have very little faith and trust in people because of that right now. I really hope that changes, and soon. Blah.
I know it is said a lot but it is true. It is all about who you know more than your qualification. If you are not networking and just sending out applications blindly you will be looked over. Try to meet people from the place you are applying at. Hang out where they are hanging out and chat them up.
You will be surprised how many doors open up when you know someone inside as opposed to just sending resumes blindly where you end up being just another applicant in a stack of 500 other people who are applying for the same job that all have the same or better qualifications you have.
You will be surprised how many doors open up when you know someone inside as opposed to just sending resumes blindly where you end up being just another applicant in a stack of 500 other people who are applying for the same job that all have the same or better qualifications you have.
terrisus
Member
People like me who have severe social deficiencies and cant network worth shit are dead in the water, which is why im convinced im eating a bullet when the paychecks stop coming.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I graduated at the end of 2009, which of course was like walking into a mine field. Plus, my field isn't the easiest to find a stable job that is reliable. Luckily, I got an intership a few weeks after graduation, it started out at 10 hours a week for about 8 months (I was also able to work a semester after college at a editing lab for 10 hours a week also, which helped), After that, my internship bumped me to 20 hours a week and it stayed that way for 4 years. This fall I'm finally going to be going full time with a pay increase. The weight going off your shoulders is so releasing.
I won't say I constantly stayed looking for a full time job, but I kept myself busy. A lot of those 4 years after graduation was full of other angst than job related. I went deaf in one ear suddenly, and that sort of thing just messes you up. I went to school looking to do radio/audio production, but that kinda gotta sidelined. So I pivoted and starting going for video production.
Thing is, during my under employment time,I wrote books and scripts. Just anything to keep my moral up and staying productive. If you have a hobby that could be a money source, go for it. If anything, at the end of the day, you will have something that you worked hard on. Plus, it is so easy to self publish today on amazon, Barnes and noble or on the apple store.
If returning home is an option, take it, unless there is no job potential there. 25 is really the new 18 as far as living with your parents, at least for our generation. It is easier to have a clear mind about what to do when you don't have to worry about rent.
I won't say I constantly stayed looking for a full time job, but I kept myself busy. A lot of those 4 years after graduation was full of other angst than job related. I went deaf in one ear suddenly, and that sort of thing just messes you up. I went to school looking to do radio/audio production, but that kinda gotta sidelined. So I pivoted and starting going for video production.
Thing is, during my under employment time,I wrote books and scripts. Just anything to keep my moral up and staying productive. If you have a hobby that could be a money source, go for it. If anything, at the end of the day, you will have something that you worked hard on. Plus, it is so easy to self publish today on amazon, Barnes and noble or on the apple store.
If returning home is an option, take it, unless there is no job potential there. 25 is really the new 18 as far as living with your parents, at least for our generation. It is easier to have a clear mind about what to do when you don't have to worry about rent.
panama chief
Member
if youre posting on NeoGAF....realize: you have a network. this site is helpful beyond measure, sometimes you just have to ask. do we have an unemployment or a "I know who's hiring" OT?
i went 3 years without work. every day was a routine of cleaning house, cooking, picking up kids and watching my wife lose interest. its terrible. one day my brother told his ex manager that i will work for beans. and i took the hit. came into the company entry-level. the manager told me she saw my application many many times and always put it down cause i was overqualified for the position. i urge some of you to accept that. youre awesome and that may be the problem!! a year later and im a manager for a tech analysis team.
i went 3 years without work. every day was a routine of cleaning house, cooking, picking up kids and watching my wife lose interest. its terrible. one day my brother told his ex manager that i will work for beans. and i took the hit. came into the company entry-level. the manager told me she saw my application many many times and always put it down cause i was overqualified for the position. i urge some of you to accept that. youre awesome and that may be the problem!! a year later and im a manager for a tech analysis team.
XiaNaphryz
LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
It took me 10 months of applying and interviewing before I finally landed a job after getting laid off last year. I was the runner-up three times in a row at one stretch. You just got to go in every time confident you'll nail the interview, but afterwards assuming the worst and continuing the search for more openings to apply for.
Social deficiencies are not like some permanent birth defect. You can work on it and get better.Hell, you can take medication for it if you have social anxiety/shyness.
Example:
I got my dream job today. I start next year when my contract at my current company is over and I am getting close to a %100 raise. I did not send an application in through usual channels, the position I was applying for wasn't even advertised. I had friends who worked at that company and some friends who just got a job with them, asked them to hook me up with the hiring managers and attended a company get together and chatted them up. Two days later I had an interview with the supervisor and we got along really well. A day later today they sent me an offer which I accepted gladly and now I have my next job lined up before I even finished my current one.
If I were to just send in my resume to the jobs@company.com email they have on their website nothing would have happened.
Is putting "negotiable" on the salary expectation question okay?
Not unless it is accompanying a number in my opinion. That question is really just to ensure you're in the same ballpark as the budgeted salary for the position. Offering a range is an acceptable response though.
I can attest to the fact that it took me six months to find a job as a web developer after I finished studying for my Master's degree. Literally twice a month I get an email from a recruiter trying to poach me, often for much more advanced roles than I am currently comfortable pursuing. It's nuts.
Ah okay. Thanks
The only real way to get your foot in the door at a place is to know someone who works there that can recommend you. The other way is to stretch the truth (not outright lie) on your resume about previous work and volunteer experience. It's better to hedge your bets and go with both options, which is how I got a first interview for my current job. Then you have to bullshit your way through an interview by saying only what they want to hear, while also making yourself believe the bullshit you're spewing. It's all a fucking game, and the losers are booted onto the streets while being called subhuman leeches by society. What a world.
HOMEBOY OVER HERE
Banned
YES
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=879344
this is my thread. I'm not at the same point as you career wise but I've recently started apply this week. I'm scared the turn downs are going to be coming through soon. I have little work experience (worked at a bakery for three years back in 2011 and just finished up a very good internship).
Not sure what the future holds. am scared. scared my soul is about to be crushed.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=879344
this is my thread. I'm not at the same point as you career wise but I've recently started apply this week. I'm scared the turn downs are going to be coming through soon. I have little work experience (worked at a bakery for three years back in 2011 and just finished up a very good internship).
Not sure what the future holds. am scared. scared my soul is about to be crushed.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
is this a joke post?
I was engineering student. When I was looking for my internship after 3rd year. I applied to more than 110 places, and got 2 interview and got job on the second one.
When I graduated 4 months ago, I have applied to more than 80 places, and got 3 interview and got two offers. And I selected one.
Did I start doubting myself? Yes, but not after 20 application.
HOMEBOY OVER HERE
Banned
fuck this messed up country. it's completely programmed and so many people are just fucked but they keep feeding you a false sense of hope. I never pray, but I'm praying for everyone in this thread.
megarockexe
Member
It was tough for me. With no volunteer work or any part-time or full-time work to speak for after finishing college, I seemed invisible. I think a lot of it lies in the character once you actually get the interview though.
zoleristec
Member
Pushing 4 years since I graduated, still nothing. Pretty much every job posting in my area requires 3-5 years of experience and pays shit.
Fuck this country.
Fuck this country.
IpsoFacto
Member
Was unemployed for about 10 months. I know how it feels. Sure you can keep up a routine, like trying to start your own business, always checking out job offers here and there, deliverying your resumé in person to a couple of places. But, man after at least 8 interviews that go nowhere, you'll start getting not only doubtful but extremely cynical about everyone else.
How many times have I had job interviewers give a smile and a polite "we'll get back to you, soon" and then by the 3rd day I knew they wouldn't return my calls.
Depressing as heck, staying awake till 5 am was the norm for me in 2012. I hope don't got through this again.
How many times have I had job interviewers give a smile and a polite "we'll get back to you, soon" and then by the 3rd day I knew they wouldn't return my calls.
Depressing as heck, staying awake till 5 am was the norm for me in 2012. I hope don't got through this again.
fierrotlepou
Member
Are you guys of the opinion that any experience is experience? I can get a retail job at the moment. Should I get that while I search for other jobs? I don't want to sit around on my ass all day...
I recently been laid off from a state government agency. I fought like hell to get the job after struggling for a long time and I really blame myself for losing the job (even though my manager would never communicate with me or do a performance evaluation and any conversation I would have would result in her getting frustrated and acting as if I was supposed to know everything after 6+ months). Basically, I would do my job based on the improvement suggestions she would offer, but her reasoning for letting me go seemed to have amounted to 'you weren't doing enough' and 'I don't really feel like you were doing anything.' The other staff member besides me didn't seem to be doing anything different than I was.
Everyone that I provided support loved having me there except for my boss. I do have a reference from the agency (someone other than my boss or my co-worker), but I'm not looking forward to applying for jobs again. Especially considering I really loved providing assistance to the people working there and I think eventually I would have gotten up to speed if my boss had communicated or not have unreasonable expectations.
Everyone that I provided support loved having me there except for my boss. I do have a reference from the agency (someone other than my boss or my co-worker), but I'm not looking forward to applying for jobs again. Especially considering I really loved providing assistance to the people working there and I think eventually I would have gotten up to speed if my boss had communicated or not have unreasonable expectations.
teruterubozu
Member
I thought I had a fantastic job interview, but I guess someone did better.
It sucks to get so close and fall right back down to nothing. Ugh.
It sucks to get so close and fall right back down to nothing. Ugh.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
That sounds depressing AF
Phat Michael
Banned
the major trick to securing employment is to stand out from the pack. Unfortunately, it requires a lot to do this.
I was born and raised in Australia and it was difficult for me to secure a job post graduation. Once i got a (crap) job, i moved countries two years later.
As soon as i moved countries, i realised i was so far ahead of the pack here simply because there werent a huge amount of young, qualified expatriates in this region.
If you are a US citizen and have a degree from a US university, it might be worthwhile moving to a developing country such as the UAE, GCC countries, Malaysia or somewhere like this.
In the US, you may have a lot of competition, but in these areas, a young, qualified and well spoken individual might be a lot more difficult to come by.
Just being decent written and oral skills in English in these countries can often put you ahead of the game so it may be worthwhile looking abroad for job opportunities in areas that require qualified expats. Yes it's difficult, yes it's a HUGE risk...but it will look good on your future CV to show that you have worked around the world rather than just being born/raised/educated/worked in one particular city all your life.
I was born and raised in Australia and it was difficult for me to secure a job post graduation. Once i got a (crap) job, i moved countries two years later.
As soon as i moved countries, i realised i was so far ahead of the pack here simply because there werent a huge amount of young, qualified expatriates in this region.
If you are a US citizen and have a degree from a US university, it might be worthwhile moving to a developing country such as the UAE, GCC countries, Malaysia or somewhere like this.
In the US, you may have a lot of competition, but in these areas, a young, qualified and well spoken individual might be a lot more difficult to come by.
Just being decent written and oral skills in English in these countries can often put you ahead of the game so it may be worthwhile looking abroad for job opportunities in areas that require qualified expats. Yes it's difficult, yes it's a HUGE risk...but it will look good on your future CV to show that you have worked around the world rather than just being born/raised/educated/worked in one particular city all your life.
JimmyRustler
Member
Anything is better than sitting around all day.
Also, it's much, much less stressful applying for a new job when you have a job.
drunkendonuts
Member
going on about 5 months unemployed currently. i had some fun today since my roommate's family is visiting and they took me and the rest of my roommates out to the beach. but yeah i felt pretty bad since i could have been spending my day searching for jobs and filling out applications that might or might not get looked at.
it's just like, i've sent out applications, and I even see that they've opened my emails and checked my resume and all that, its just that they usually send back a reply email full of bad news and well wishes on the job search. it baffles me since i know i have the experience and credentials for the job listings i apply for. i understand having trouble finding work in the industry i usually work (VFX/post production), but something's up when i'm having difficulty landing even just a retail/customer service job. i also hate asking for help from my family for money, they'll help me as long as i need it, but i feel so bad every time i have to call them and then say the usual "still looking..." when they ask how the job search is. it really is soul crushing.
it's just like, i've sent out applications, and I even see that they've opened my emails and checked my resume and all that, its just that they usually send back a reply email full of bad news and well wishes on the job search. it baffles me since i know i have the experience and credentials for the job listings i apply for. i understand having trouble finding work in the industry i usually work (VFX/post production), but something's up when i'm having difficulty landing even just a retail/customer service job. i also hate asking for help from my family for money, they'll help me as long as i need it, but i feel so bad every time i have to call them and then say the usual "still looking..." when they ask how the job search is. it really is soul crushing.
Askherserenity
Member
This is great advice. I have been doing the routine thing and it has helped a bit.
The job thing can also be twice as tough to go through for certain people with depression issues. I'm one of them. I havent been eating much at all. I only eat when my mom starts worrying and begs me to eat. I can't sleep. I can't play anything or I'll just end up feeling worst. Can't talk to anyone about it because I don't want to be a bother or bum anyone else out.
I know this thread is bummer and I wish people wouldn't have to go through this but it actually helps me feel less alone in all this.
I'm an expert
Formerly worldrevolution. The only reason I am nice to anyone else is to avoid being banned.
Working is always better than not, but not all experience should be put on a resume. You have to tailor your resume to the specific industry and company. A lot of people think it's required to list every place you've ever worked. Wrong. I instantly toss resumes that put the ice cream parlor they worked at when they were 16 along with other irrelevant shit that clutters up their one page. Similarly, a lot of people that don't have much experience don't put enough non-work information on their resume to supplement their experience shortage. For example, someone who has only worked at the ice cream parlor, which is absolutely ok, doesn't have any type of internship/volunteer/club/organization/certificate/license or something that tells me that you're doing more than scooping ice cream and praying someone takes a chance on you.
I've given this advice here before, but most people here reply with no money/too afraid to leave home/family is important or something similar. By the time you're ~20 you've most likely spent enough time in one place.. people need to understand the world is way more accommodating nowadays and living your whole life where you were born is old fashioned.
Phat Michael
Banned
You are 100% correct in the first part. Your CV does NOT have to list every job you have, it should be tailored to the new job you are looking for. Your cover letter in essence should also be an executive summary of who you are and how you can add value to the company, which they can see in the attached CV.
And yes, i left australia with $5000 to my name, not much really. I sold my car, sold my stereo and saved up money being a waiter and working at a cinema. I bought a ticket and moved to the UAE.
At some point, everyone needs to take one big risk in your life and unfortunately, it often is moving countries. People complain about there being "no jobs" where they live....the solution to me is, move?
Hey its difficult, but usually the things in life with a big payoff come from one big risk.
Davey Cakes
Member
Lack of proper feedback is the worst. Everyone deserves a chance to improve.
Sorry to hear that you were laid off. Miscommunication about expectations should not be a reason for losing a job. It's not like you didn't have the capacity to learn more and do better. It sucks because, at a point the management probably made up their mind even though you weren't given the time to prove yourself.
Hell, that reminds me of my last breakup.
I once had a really great interview despite having to go through the whole thing with raspiness in my voice due to allergies. It seemed like they understood.
5 positions and I think only 10 applicants. I was REALLY confident and also really desired the position.
Got an email saying they "went in a different direction." Reason was flat-out that I "didn't have office experience." This was very specifically marked an ENTRY LEVEL job. And it was co-op, too. The whole reason I wanted the job was to gain the experience so that when I left college I would have something to work off of, but there's that good ol' catch 22.
When you basically have a 50% chance and you still don't get the job, even after a good interview? Soul crushing indeed.
VeryGooster
Banned
Applying for jobs especially online feels worse because of that feeling like it gets lost in a digital sea of applications.
The job tips though I've come across on GAF over the years have been far more helpful though than generic "STAND OUT!" articles.
The job tips though I've come across on GAF over the years have been far more helpful though than generic "STAND OUT!" articles.
Indeed. That is something I'm unfortunately seeing quite often myself. For unpaid internships even! Get called in to interview for something completely different than what I applied for "because we already have applicants with experience in X".
I mean, this would be an unpaid, part time internship and there's still people who had experience in the field before applying for those and bumming out those who'd actually like to get relevant experience?
Market is quite harsh, indeed.
Did 4 years of university myself. Back in 2012 there were some political stuff that ended up delaying my degree and, uncertain of what the future held back then, I got a job as a security guard in the meanwhile, because money and short-sightedness.
After a while, I just couldn't take it though. I'm used to think. To create. To help people. To start projects and see them to an end. Not to stand in front of elevators or kicking bums out (that is so against my inner persona). And there is nowhere to go from there. You could work 20 years as a security guard and still be at the exact same chair.
Then there was a thread on GAF, about someone who had a dying friend with regrets on how her life had been, and it made me realize that no, this is life. The road may be hard at times, but we only get one of those, and I will not resign myself to something when I know I can do so much more and be so much more helpful somewhere, somehow.
So I recently left that behind, went on a little world trip (I'm only 25, now's the time right?), and came back. My family is supporting me, my fiancee approves my choice. In some ways I'm quite greedy, so that allowed me to have a comfortable money bank to sit on while I rediscover myself.
Been a little over 4 months. Got a dozen of interviews. Actually got one later today for a government job, so I'm hoping I create a real good impression as that could lead to good things. Still hoping to hear back from another I interviewed with last week, but they did tell me the hiring process (another government job, for which I did ask for GAF's advice concerning thank you notes) would take at least a couple of weeks, so I'm trying not to be saddened too much when my references tells me they didn't get a call or anything. Maybe they never will! Who knows.
Brerlappin
Member
I fucking HATE this above all else. Its just so disrespectful. I went for an interview back in February I think, and I had to take a half day from my job to go to it, I had to drive through a part of town id never been in and as such almost got into a fucking crash, spent over an hour in the actual interview itself, only for them to never even bother sending me so much as an email to say thanks but no thanks.
Most disgusting of all tho, was my wife, who was unemployed, went for a working interview for Benefit makeup. She spent almost a whole day working for them, sold their products, made money for them, only for them to never bother contacting her again. Not even a please fuck off letter. I was so furious I felt like calling them up and chewing their asses out in a non-sexual way.
Also heres a real kicker. I just saw indeed.com thanks to this thread and looked for new jobs in my field (IT), and lo and behold, a company I worked for previously is hiring an IT Admin...as an intern. To do the job I previously did that paid me a daily rate of almose 200 euro per day, theyre trying to hire someone for 50 euro per week to work as a fucking intern. Unreal.
Dirtyshubb
Member
As someone who worked in a section of HR (Not the traditional sense) and has a friend in the normal style HR I have to say this isn't always the case, in fact the most frustrating thing you have to deal with is employees who have no idea what they are talking about yet decide that you are the one in the wrong even though you are trying to help them.
Just wanted to throw that out there.
teruterubozu
Member
Yup, that's exactly what happened. It was clear it was down to 2 or 3 candidates then I got the going-in-x-direction e-mail. I thanked them for their consideration blah, blah. There's always that shred of nefarious hope that the person they chose will fail the background check or something, but gotta move on - after I lick my wounds a little.
You just had to 'try hard'. Put your best foot forward and you'd get a job. It's all my parents' generation tells me all the time (baby boomers). They then think that lack of success now = not trying hard. No other mitigating factors seem to enter into their consideration of the situation. We must just not be trying.
I'm in business, so I'm not sure how much of what I've done to secure employment is applicable for other fields, but...
While at MBA, I sent out one dozen resumes and cover letters. I was interviewed nine times and received four job offers. Out of the MBA, moving into my second job, I sent out four resumes and cover letters, was interviewed four times, and received four job offers.
Here's what I've learned:
RESUMES / COVER LETTERS
1) Your grades don't matter, by and large. There are some, a small, prestigious few, that give a crap what your grades were - but most don't. So don't sweat them and don't focus too heavily on them in your resume.
2) Skills are very important. I'm not talking about listing "Highly Proficient in MS Office" - that's a tool, not a skill. What you know how to do with these tools is more important: "Multivariate Regression Analysis", "Segmentation through K-Means Clustering", "Conjoint Analysis", etc. Have a Skills / Assets section in which you call these out in bullets, but don't go into excruciating detail there or even in the body of each prior employment. What you did in prior jobs is about results - what did you drive for the company, how much money did you make them, how much time did you save them, etc. through your actions: "Clustered consumer segments and devised a tiered strategy which allowed [firm] to better target product assortment and pricing, leading to incremental sales of $8 million and GM of $2.6 million"... Try to quantify as best you can. 'Segmentation through K-Means Clustering' would be in the Skills / Assets section below, linking to that result.
3) Cover letters are often required. When I see someone ask, "How important is a cover letter?", my answer is: As important as you make it. If you are standardizing these things, be it a resume or cover letter, you are doing it wrong. Unless your ingredients list - i.e. the things you included in your resume - are absolutely, stupidly perfect for the job, you are hurting yourself by standardizing this stuff. Every resume and cover letter I have ever sent out was specifically built for the job and company I was applying for/to, from language used and skills listed, to design. Reflect their culture. Make it look like you already work there and already love it enough that you ape its style constantly. It's hard and it takes time, but it pays off.
4) Something I added to the end of all my cover letters was a section I simply called: "A Thought". In it, I provided a recommendation to the firm based on analysis I had done about their marketing strategy, their pricing, etc. Whatever I could figure out that I thought was insightful or interesting or just showed that I truly cared about the firm and its business. It also allows you to indicate your awareness of their industry - not just from their vantage point, but from the entire industry. How things work, how companies are competing, etc. It shouldn't be long; it should be concise. Don't waste it, it's valuable. About half the companies I received interviews from specifically cited that as something that they appreciated that got my resume moved up among the horde.
5) Follow up on a weekly basis. Do so twice. Let it go after. If you interview, send thank you letters / emails to everyone who interviewed you. As with the resumes and cover letters, make these communications specific to the individual. Mention what you talked about with them, how you think about it now, hours later.
Beyond that, the rest is just typical formatting bullshit. Show that you can deliver value to a company from the get-go and they will most likely want to at least talk to you.
INTERVIEWS
1) Know how to speak about why you want the specific job, why you like the company, and why you're a good choice for them. For the most part, knowing why you want the specific job and why you're a good choice for it will suffice, but there are many companies which take themselves very seriously and want to see that you take them seriously too.
2) Don't bullshit your top weaknesses and strengths. Make them legitimate. Talk about what you've learned while dealing with your weaknesses and what your plans are to continue to learn from and overcome them. Be specific. I've been an interviewer enough times that I can always tell who is full of crap and who isn't.
3) Show that you want to learn. Ask questions. Try to make it a conversation between the two/three of you rather than a shooting range. Look confident when you speak, but if they prove you're wrong about something, look pleased about it (that you've learned something), and thank them for the correction.
4) Be able to discuss how you come up with ideas through examples. This becomes increasingly more important when you're going for a job or have had jobs in which there is great ambiguity or critical thinking involved. Talk about the sequence of events, the steps that took you from a notion and led you to something actionable. Freely give credit to others you collaborated with or later inspired changes in your own thinking throughout the process. Practice will help you make this concise. If they want to know more, they can ask.
And that's about all I can think of that I consider really important. Might add more if I think of anything else.
While at MBA, I sent out one dozen resumes and cover letters. I was interviewed nine times and received four job offers. Out of the MBA, moving into my second job, I sent out four resumes and cover letters, was interviewed four times, and received four job offers.
Here's what I've learned:
RESUMES / COVER LETTERS
1) Your grades don't matter, by and large. There are some, a small, prestigious few, that give a crap what your grades were - but most don't. So don't sweat them and don't focus too heavily on them in your resume.
2) Skills are very important. I'm not talking about listing "Highly Proficient in MS Office" - that's a tool, not a skill. What you know how to do with these tools is more important: "Multivariate Regression Analysis", "Segmentation through K-Means Clustering", "Conjoint Analysis", etc. Have a Skills / Assets section in which you call these out in bullets, but don't go into excruciating detail there or even in the body of each prior employment. What you did in prior jobs is about results - what did you drive for the company, how much money did you make them, how much time did you save them, etc. through your actions: "Clustered consumer segments and devised a tiered strategy which allowed [firm] to better target product assortment and pricing, leading to incremental sales of $8 million and GM of $2.6 million"... Try to quantify as best you can. 'Segmentation through K-Means Clustering' would be in the Skills / Assets section below, linking to that result.
3) Cover letters are often required. When I see someone ask, "How important is a cover letter?", my answer is: As important as you make it. If you are standardizing these things, be it a resume or cover letter, you are doing it wrong. Unless your ingredients list - i.e. the things you included in your resume - are absolutely, stupidly perfect for the job, you are hurting yourself by standardizing this stuff. Every resume and cover letter I have ever sent out was specifically built for the job and company I was applying for/to, from language used and skills listed, to design. Reflect their culture. Make it look like you already work there and already love it enough that you ape its style constantly. It's hard and it takes time, but it pays off.
4) Something I added to the end of all my cover letters was a section I simply called: "A Thought". In it, I provided a recommendation to the firm based on analysis I had done about their marketing strategy, their pricing, etc. Whatever I could figure out that I thought was insightful or interesting or just showed that I truly cared about the firm and its business. It also allows you to indicate your awareness of their industry - not just from their vantage point, but from the entire industry. How things work, how companies are competing, etc. It shouldn't be long; it should be concise. Don't waste it, it's valuable. About half the companies I received interviews from specifically cited that as something that they appreciated that got my resume moved up among the horde.
5) Follow up on a weekly basis. Do so twice. Let it go after. If you interview, send thank you letters / emails to everyone who interviewed you. As with the resumes and cover letters, make these communications specific to the individual. Mention what you talked about with them, how you think about it now, hours later.
Beyond that, the rest is just typical formatting bullshit. Show that you can deliver value to a company from the get-go and they will most likely want to at least talk to you.
INTERVIEWS
1) Know how to speak about why you want the specific job, why you like the company, and why you're a good choice for them. For the most part, knowing why you want the specific job and why you're a good choice for it will suffice, but there are many companies which take themselves very seriously and want to see that you take them seriously too.
2) Don't bullshit your top weaknesses and strengths. Make them legitimate. Talk about what you've learned while dealing with your weaknesses and what your plans are to continue to learn from and overcome them. Be specific. I've been an interviewer enough times that I can always tell who is full of crap and who isn't.
3) Show that you want to learn. Ask questions. Try to make it a conversation between the two/three of you rather than a shooting range. Look confident when you speak, but if they prove you're wrong about something, look pleased about it (that you've learned something), and thank them for the correction.
4) Be able to discuss how you come up with ideas through examples. This becomes increasingly more important when you're going for a job or have had jobs in which there is great ambiguity or critical thinking involved. Talk about the sequence of events, the steps that took you from a notion and led you to something actionable. Freely give credit to others you collaborated with or later inspired changes in your own thinking throughout the process. Practice will help you make this concise. If they want to know more, they can ask.
And that's about all I can think of that I consider really important. Might add more if I think of anything else.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
One thing I noticed that grab's the interviewer's attention is DO YOUR RESEARCH.
I can't stress enough how important it is to research the company and how that can put you ahead of the pack. Find out if they're a growing or a well-established company, find out recent things that they've done, etc.
Also when you formulate your questions to ask the employer, make sure that you're doing it so they flatter themselves. Especially if you're meeting your potential boss, it's always nice to have your boss talk about themselves. I always ended my questions with "What made you successful?"
I can't stress enough how important it is to research the company and how that can put you ahead of the pack. Find out if they're a growing or a well-established company, find out recent things that they've done, etc.
Also when you formulate your questions to ask the employer, make sure that you're doing it so they flatter themselves. Especially if you're meeting your potential boss, it's always nice to have your boss talk about themselves. I always ended my questions with "What made you successful?"
I've got your back, man. Let me know if you need any help.
BannedEpisode
Member
Very good advice.