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Ar nosurge |OT| – Class__EXPAJA;

T

Thickstone

Member
kiryogi said:
You might be the only person I know that not only praises qoga, but put it above the AR nosurge. But opinions will be opinions. Now not to discount it. It's great to find someone that did enjoy it. Despite its flaws I enjoyed it as its still AR tonelico. In fact, Tilia is the best origin. That said when I have people whose first Ar Tonelico game was Qoga and telling me how it's traumatized them on the series, then having to convince them it was a one off, I think there was a massive problem with Qoga.
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Not gonna lie, WTF was written all over my face while reading his post. Opinions, eh?

However I finished the Ciel summary and ordered Ar Nosurge right afterwards - the last shot i'll give the series. But ciel's story gave me hope.
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
Thickstone said:
Not gonna lie, WTF was written all over my face while reading his post. Opinions, eh?

However I finished the Ciel summary and ordered Ar Nosurge right afterwards - the last shot i'll give the series. But ciel's story gave me hope.
Click to expand...

Trying to be civil :D Could say he was wrong etc etc. but some folks do genuinely like Qoga :shrug:

Let's do some follow up:

bigninja said:
So after picking up Ar Nosurge I got sentimental about the Ar Tonelico series and I grabbed my AT3 disc for a little nostalgia. I popped it in and played for an hour or so, loading my clear data and starting from the beginning.

Wow. I was floored.

Now this is just my subjective opinion here, but after about 30 hours in, I like Ar Tonelico Qoga much more than Nosurge.

Ar Tonelico Qoga has:

-better music, hands down. Seriously, pop AT3 back in for a few minutes.
-better characters, lead character especially. Delta is such a fucking wad.
-better character animation (just check the idle animations in the AT3 gallery)
-better frame rate
-better art (backgrounds, city transitions, 2d + 3d mix, picture unlocks)
-better conversations
-better bosses (except that one we shall not name)
-better anime interstitials (higher quality of AT3 is instantly apparent)
-better story setup/reveals
-deeper, more rewarding cosmospheres (so far)
-easier menus and upgrades
-better (jp) voice acting

to name a few...

Now, on the subject of the battle system. I quite like Ar Nosurge's approach. It's satisfying and can be quite strategic on higher difficulties. That said, I miss the connection to the Reyvateil that Qoga has. Running back to her to heal, blasting enemies off of her, harmonizing your attacks. It was more engaging to me.

Here's my take. Qoga was the last in the AT series. It was a labor of love and a love letter to all the AT fans. They took the fanservice over the top, sure - but the rest of the game exudes quality in almost all aspects.

Compared to AT3 (and most definitely AT1 + 2), Nosurge seems like a budget title.

I have been a huge fan of AT for many years. I have been looking forward to this game for a long time. I may change my tune after 60 hours with Nosurge, but as first impressions go, this game is the worst in the (loosely connected, thematically similar) series.
Click to expand...

Better characters. . . Aoto was the worst of the 3 protags, and while Delta is a naive and absolutely shounen, that's still better than Aoto. Although you could say that Delta never really grew up from being Tabou
until later on anyway

Better cosmosphere. I dunno about that, Ar nosurge's route with Genometrics is a bit refreshing and similar to that of Ar Tonelico 2's Infelsphere that it actually allows diving into the supporting cast, which really expands on their relationships and interactions, Instead of it just being the heroine and her own world. Likewise with Infelsphere, it explored the relationships between the two heroines.
 
D

Durante

Member
kiryogi said:
Better cosmosphere. I dunno about that, Ar nosurge's route with Genometrics is a bit refreshing and similar to that of Ar Tonelico 2's Infelsphere that it actually allows diving into the supporting cast, which really expands on their relationships and interactions, Instead of it just being the heroine and her own world. Likewise with Infelsphere, it explored the relationships between the two heroines.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I really like this part.

One initial disappointment for me with Ar Nosurge was the battle system being limited to two characters -- or basically one of them really. But now that I've spent more time with it I realize that doing this allowed them to put far more thought and significance into individual skill design and make everything flow much more smoothly. It's a great system.

Oh, and I also like Qoga, but I can't tell yet which I like more. I can say that this one sadly doesn't seem like AT2-tier either, but then again AT2 is one of my top 5 RPGs of all time.
 
D

Durante

Member
galvenize said:
Can't seem to get a better rating than B in combat. Playing on hard.
Click to expand...
How early in the game? I got my first A after 1.5 hours or so (at Veteran). Once you get the tools ("X" skills, mostly) to reliably break enemy turns such that you can clear an entire wave in one fight it gets pretty easy.
 
G

galvenize

Member
Durante said:
How early in the game? I got my first A after 1.5 hours or so (at Veteran). Once you get the tools ("X" skills, mostly) to reliably break enemy turns such that you can clear an entire wave in one fight it gets pretty easy.
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I'm with Ion & Earthes atm. I know what I'm doing in combat, breaking every enemy in an optimal way then unleashing the song magic when the red reaches the last wave. Still B. I guess I need equip better stuff from alchemy. Things than enhances breaking perhaps.

I've got a question regarding choice of song magic at the start of a battle. Song Magic Damage affects how quickly you can kill every wave in one go but what does the Tsunderain magic song do? Something about waves.
 
D

Durante

Member
galvenize said:
I'm with Ion & Earthes atm. I know what I'm doing in combat, breaking every enemy in an optimal way then unleashing the song magic when the red reaches the last wave. Still B. I guess I need equip better stuff from alchemy. Things than enhances breaking perhaps.
Click to expand...
Yeah, equipment can make a pretty big difference, both item-wise and in terms of Purification/Crystals. (Which in turn also means that getting a lot of talk topics ASAP helps, because you get more slots)
 
A

atomsk

Party Pooper
This is the last place I expected to see a Bandai Pippin reference...

10689696_10152674647863726_5591388390087427460_n.jpg
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"This was also noted as the worst selling game console in the world"
 
S

Suzushiiro

Banned
Midway through phase 2 and I'm loving the meta-ness of this game. Are there any other games where the player is an actual entity in the game like they are in Ciel/Ar Nosurge?
 
A

afreaknamedpete

Member
Suzushiiro said:
Midway through phase 2 and I'm loving the meta-ness of this game. Are there any other games where the player is an actual entity in the game like they are in Ciel/Ar Nosurge?
Click to expand...

Baten Kaitos has you playing as a Guardian Spirit, which is sort of the same.

Also there's quite a few japanese games that do this, but naming them would essentially spoil the games.
 
A

atomsk

Party Pooper
afreaknamedpete said:
Also there's quite a few japanese games that do this, but naming them would essentially spoil the games.
Click to expand...

Yeah, at least one I'm thinking of, that's the big twist at the end.

Even though it's 15 years old, I'd still rather not spoil people.

In terms of games that tell you up front, Contact for DS.
 
S

Suzushiiro

Banned
Yeah, I suppose the only other games I can think of are also ones where it's technically a spoiler (though I suppose Earthbound is old/well-known enough that nobody would care.)

I mean, Gust has always done this kind of stuff in their games where the characters call out the weird shit that happens in the world to make the game work (prime examples being the characters questioning the existence of dive and weapon shops in the all-Reyvateil city in AT3 and Atelier Totori pointing out the weirdness of the containers being identical between Totori and Rorona's workshops,) this game just brings it to the forefront and makes it a part of the plot rather than a joke.
 
A

afreaknamedpete

Member
To those of you who are trying to beat the game on Vet you're probably going to be walled hard by the Phase 1 Boss.

It was mentioned earlier in the topic but "Enemy Position Change", granted by "lyrical hitman" (go through Nay's synthesis events to get this) is absolutely mandatory for this boss battle. As far as I can tell, attaching "lyrical Hitman" to the "X" attack will force a position change for every attack.

The boss hits four times in a row and will destroy you in two turns unless you position change them to the front and Break them every turn. Try not to kill the two goon soldiers that attack every turn, just focus on the boss. If one of the goon soldiers dies, the robot goon in the back will start attacking three times a turn.
 
D

Durante

Member
I just beat
Zill
on Veteran. Feels good. For me, the key was a combination of using items every single turn and moving her to the front. (And of course, getting all the equipment you can get at that point)
 
B

BluWacky

Member
afreaknamedpete said:
To those of you who are trying to beat the game on Vet you're probably going to be walled hard by the Phase 1 Boss.

It was mentioned earlier in the topic but "Enemy Position Change", granted by "lyrical hitman" (go through Nay's synthesis events to get this) is absolutely mandatory for this boss battle. As far as I can tell, attaching "lyrical Hitman" to the "X" attack will force a position change for every attack.

The boss hits four times in a row and will destroy you in two turns unless you position change them to the front and Break them every turn. Try not to kill the two goon soldiers that attack every turn, just focus on the boss. If one of the goon soldiers dies, the robot goon in the back will start attacking three times a turn.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this.

This game is befuddling. If I'd known that any of this was possible I'd have gone for it. Hell, if the game hadn't trapped me in the Genomirai Church I'd have gone back and done all the synthesis events to get this, grinded to get Delay Break etc. As it was, stuck in the Church with nothing to do having wiped out every encounter wave, all I could do was lower the difficulty.

Playing through Ion's first phase at the moment and, again, the game seems almost wilfully confusing. Ion's first Genometrics is just bizarre, with quizzes asking you questions about characters you haven't even met in the game yet. It's hard to believe it wasn't just as incoherent in Japanese, in some ways.

But at least I've done all the synthesis events I can for the moment...
 
O

OceanBlue

Member
BluWacky said:
Playing through Ion's first phase at the moment and, again, the game seems almost wilfully confusing. Ion's first Genometrics is just bizarre, with quizzes asking you questions about characters you haven't even met in the game yet. It's hard to believe it wasn't just as incoherent in Japanese, in some ways.
Click to expand...

Actually, Ion's first Genometrics is willfully confusing. You can't complete it yet.
 
B

BluWacky

Member
OceanBlue said:
Actually, Ion's first Genometrics is willfully confusing. You can't complete it yet.
Click to expand...

I genuinely laughed out loud at this! Of course...

Oh well, I won't waste my time on it then.

This game. Seriously. It's quite good fun, but... this is not the product of a well funded, well structured project.
 
S

Suzushiiro

Banned
BluWacky said:
I genuinely laughed out loud at this! Of course...

Oh well, I won't waste my time on it then.

This game. Seriously. It's quite good fun, but... this is not the product of a well funded, well structured project.
Click to expand...

If you go to the garbage dump directly (instead of being taken there due to crashing out) Nelico will explicitly tell you that you can't pass that level yet and have to come back later, actually.
 
O

OceanBlue

Member
BluWacky said:
I genuinely laughed out loud at this! Of course...

Oh well, I won't waste my time on it then.

This game. Seriously. It's quite good fun, but... this is not the product of a well funded, well structured project.
Click to expand...

Lol, I hope you aren't too dissuaded from doing Ion's Genometrics when it becomes available. I'm enjoying it more than Cass's Genometrics at the point I'm at right now. To me, the relationship between Ion and Earthes and the issues Ion faces are more compelling than the issues Cass deals with in her Genometrics.

Suzushiiro said:
If you go to the garbage dump directly (instead of being taken there due to crashing out) Nelico will explicitly tell you that you can't pass that level yet and have to come back later, actually.
Click to expand...

Oh wow, I missed that. I just saw kiryogi's post on it and left it for later lol.
 
B

BluWacky

Member
OceanBlue said:
Lol, I hope you aren't too dissuaded from doing Ion's Genometrics when it becomes available. I'm enjoying it more than Cass's Genometrics at the point I'm at right now. To me, the relationship between Ion and Earthes and the issues Ion faces are more compelling than the issues Cass deals with in her Genometrics.
Click to expand...

Oh, I'll definitely do it in due course. I just meant that I won't do it right now!

The whole point of the Genometrics sequences is to understand the characters better (and get new song magic, obviously!), and although sometimes they're a bit ridiculous and go on too long the Genometrics are interesting for bits of character development.

Personally speaking I would rather they were a little less otaku-y, which I've said before and know isn't a popular opinion, but behind the waifu simulation and magical girl transformations there are some valid and genuine moments.
 
V

Vylash

Member
quick question
was i supposed to get captured by Zill? Sarly kinda made it seem like if i finished the fight faster, i could've not been captured
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
BluWacky said:
Thanks for this.

This game is befuddling. If I'd known that any of this was possible I'd have gone for it. Hell, if the game hadn't trapped me in the Genomirai Church I'd have gone back and done all the synthesis events to get this, grinded to get Delay Break etc. As it was, stuck in the Church with nothing to do having wiped out every encounter wave, all I could do was lower the difficulty.

Playing through Ion's first phase at the moment and, again, the game seems almost wilfully confusing. Ion's first Genometrics is just bizarre, with quizzes asking you questions about characters you haven't even met in the game yet. It's hard to believe it wasn't just as incoherent in Japanese, in some ways.

But at least I've done all the synthesis events I can for the moment...
Click to expand...



See the thing you'll notice about Ion's genometrics compared to Casty's, it's not just point A to B, there's some puzzles to it, again a new take on the whole dive mechanic. But yeah, it's intentionally confusing. Also, although not practical, you can reset waves by reloading saves or leaving to world map. Although, I don't think that was an option for you.

BluWacky said:
Oh, I'll definitely do it in due course. I just meant that I won't do it right now!

The whole point of the Genometrics sequences is to understand the characters better (and get new song magic, obviously!), and although sometimes they're a bit ridiculous and go on too long the Genometrics are interesting for bits of character development.

Personally speaking I would rather they were a little less otaku-y, which I've said before and know isn't a popular opinion, but behind the waifu simulation and magical girl transformations there are some valid and genuine moments.
Click to expand...

Enjoy the calm before the storm TBH, I think the light fantasy/whimsical worlds are welcome thing in the beginning, once things get deeper, we're talking about dark and serious issues underneath.

BluWacky said:
I genuinely laughed out loud at this! Of course...

Oh well, I won't waste my time on it then.

This game. Seriously. It's quite good fun, but... this is not the product of a well funded, well structured project.
Click to expand...

But it's a labor of love all the same, just look at how much content and text there is they crammed in despite the lack of budget. Some reviews out there often say that the problem with Tsuchiya's games are the lack of budget, but it just shows much passion they have with the end product.

CureVylash said:
quick question
was i supposed to get captured by Zill? Sarly kinda made it seem like if i finished the fight faster, i could've not been captured
Click to expand...

It's story related, you're good.

CureVylash said:
god, Nay is so awesome

NAY THE GALE
Click to expand...

And yes, Nay is the best character :D Or Nelico.
 
O

OceanBlue

Member
kiryogi said:
But it's a labor of love all the same, just look at how much content and text there is they crammed in despite the lack of budget.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a lot more worldbuilding than what you'd expect if you weren't used to the Ar Tonelico series. I'm enjoying the 7th dimension stuff way more than I expected to lol.
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
OH FYI to folks.

DON'T USE DELTA'S DELAY BURST ON THE DUNE BUGGIES.

Seems to be some bug that crashes the game.

Although for folks playing on Vet and all, make sure you save a lot as to avoid losing so much progress.
 
R

RurouniZel

Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
kiryogi said:
OH FYI to folks.

DON'T USE DELTA'S DELAY BURST ON THE DUNE BUGGIES.

Seems to be some bug that crashes the game.

Although for folks playing on Vet and all, make sure you save a lot as to avoid losing so much progress.
Click to expand...

Huh, must be new to the English version... or I didn't do that in the original. Either way, thanks for the warning. :3
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
RurouniZel said:
Huh, must be new to the English version... or I didn't do that in the original. Either way, thanks for the warning. :3
Click to expand...

Actually, seems like it was in JP version as well according to discussion on Gamefaqs. MasterLL had this problem for awhile, but no one else was reporting it, so it was thought to have been a one off.
 
D

Durante

Member
I'm experiencing something strange with some enemy types at the beginning of Ion/Earthes phase 1. They'll forcibly end my turn in some cases even when I haven't used up all my actions. There's no documentation on this in the encyclopedia, so I'm a bit confused as to how to fight them effectively.

BluWacky said:
This game is befuddling. If I'd known that any of this was possible I'd have gone for it. Hell, if the game hadn't trapped me in the Genomirai Church I'd have gone back and done all the synthesis events to get this, grinded to get Delay Break etc. As it was, stuck in the Church with nothing to do having wiped out every encounter wave, all I could do was lower the difficulty.
Click to expand...
The game never traps you in the church though (at least, not at points where you can save). You can just leave.
 
K

kiryogi

Banned
Durante said:
I'm experiencing something strange with some enemy types at the beginning of Ion/Earthes phase 1. They'll forcibly end my turn in some cases even when I haven't used up all my actions. There's no documentation on this in the encyclopedia, so I'm a bit confused as to how to fight them effectively.

The game never traps you in the church though (at least, not at points where you can save). You can just leave.
Click to expand...

It's Ar nosurge's equivalent to Jamming from the Ar Tonelico, well it's still called Jamming here. These are the enemies you DO NOT want to use Delta's "Delay Burst" on (R1+Circle). The only real way to deal with it is equipping genometrica crystals that can counter act it, otherwise you need to work around clearing the enemies around them strategically before attacking the buggies. Or I guess more like choose your battles wisely.
 
V

Vylash

Member
kiryogi said:
It's Ar nosurge's equivalent to Jamming from the Ar Tonelico, well it's still called Jamming here. These are the enemies you DO NOT want to use Delta's "Delay Burst" on (R1+Circle). The only real way to deal with it is equipping genometrica crystals that can counter act it, otherwise you need to work around clearing the enemies around them strategically before attacking the buggies. Or I guess more like choose your battles wisely.
Click to expand...

oh god, i literally got here and this sounds annoying
 
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