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[Grizzlyjin]

The reason no other characters are there is because the writers probably haven't figured out who is dying yet, so they don't want to box themselves in. We know Oliver and Barry will always keep going. That's why they were the two in the scene.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Barry isn't torn to pieces out of respect for Oliver. Felicity was Oli's lover, not Barry's.

If it was someone like Diggle or Laurel in the grave, then Diggle's wife or Laurel's father would be there with Oliver.

It's so clearly Felicity. So, so clear.

Or Barry missed the funeral because he was so torn up that he couldn't bear to be there. So when Ollie asks him, "Zoom?" it's an easy out to just nod.

 

[Kyoufu]

It is some time after the funeral. They could have left.

Why would Barry be by Oliver's side and not Felicity?

If it was Thea in the grave then maybe it's linked to Merlin being the new Alghul (they'll certainly meet again when Thea and Laurel go back to the Lazarus Pit).

My money's on Felicity though. RIP.

The reason no other characters are there is because the writers probably haven't figured out who is dying yet, so they don't want to box themselves in. We know Oliver and Barry will always keep going. That's why they were the two in the scene.

This does make sense but you'd think the writers have laid out one big plan for the season already, surely? :|

 

[Anbokr]

I find it strange that people are comparing S3 to S4 when S4 seems to be borrowing a lot of points from S2.

It's like s3 to me for a few reasons:
1) Team Arrow is still overloaded; there are just far too many caped crusaders running around for my tastes. Would be nice to get some focus on 2-3 characters. Because there are so many characters/vigilantes now it feels like everyone is underdeveloped--characters got powered up incredibly fast off-screen and now all they really do is throw and take punches, keep secrets for no reason, or complain about something minor for some cheap Soap drama... just nothing interesting going on character development wise.
2) No mystery about the big bad (we immediately know him), and his intentions and methods thus far seem incredibly stupid (much like Ras). I NEED TO DESTROY THIS CITY... why? Because it needs to be like reborn or renewed or some shit idk man. Yeah like we haven't been down this road already...
3) Ollie is still super unlikable to me in this season thus far. This obviously varies from person to person, but I liked cold, calculating, determined sociopath Ollie from season 1. Not whiny, hypocritical, suburban Gordon Ramsay Ollie from s4.
4) The episodes these days just lack substance/purpose to me so far. Every episode is incredibly formulaic with about 20-30 minutes of an action scene we've seen 100 times with the same thugs we've seen 100 times involving the same squad we've seen 100 times. Arrow just needs a big boom/reboot/shakeup somewhere imo (I was hoping for this last season); hopefully the season death is a catalyst for this. Perhaps get out of star city for a season or something. And as much as I love the flashbacks, it's painfully obvious they have completely run out of ideas for them, and are just stringing flashback Ollie along because they feel obligated to maintain the formula? S3 flashbacks were the weakest by far and I'm not expecting much for S4 flashbacks--which is a shame, because I love the personality of flashback Ollie as he's the closest thing to s1 Ollie!.

Just not feeling it so far, but like others have said... I loved this show in s1 (and s2), so I'm still hoping we get some sort of shakeup idk.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Why would Barry be by Oliver's side and not Felicity?

If it was Thea in the grave then maybe it's linked to Merlin being the new Alghul (they'll certainly meet again when Thea and Laurel go back to the Lazarus Pit).

My money's on Felicity though. RIP.



This does make sense but you'd think the writers have laid out one big plan for the season already, surely? :|

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/10/0...e?hootPostID=c19b3186f2efcdb3c256730e30603191

Short answer: They don't. Shows like The Flash and Arrow, they have broad strokes but in this instance I think they wanted the season to end on a very personal note, so someone will die. But they apparently haven't decided on who yet.

So if the people writing the scene haven't even decided, speculating is utterly pointless.

It's also better this way because there is no chance for it to leak. And if the audience doesn't like where a character is going, you could put them in the grave.

For example, Colton Hayes wanted to leave last season, so they wrote Roy out. If he had done the same thing this season, I guarantee Roy would be getting put down.

 

[Kyoufu]

if the audience doesn't like where a character is going, you could put them in the grave.

So I'm going to be right. RIP Felicity.

 

[Anth0ny]

They should have showed way more of Thea's training in season 3...instead of just skimming over it.

yeah I still don't buy Thea being an ass kicker. Same with Laurel. their transformation from "absolutely zero experience in any kind of athletic endeavor" to "vigilante borderline super hero" happened way too fast.

I was led to believe one becomes a super hero by training for years on an island in the north china sea called Lian Yu. or takes super drugs.

 

[fallengorn]

For example, Colton Hayes wanted to leave last season, so they wrote Roy out. If he had done the same thing this season, I guarantee Roy would be getting put down.

WIsh Hayes stuck it out for another season. That way we can use, "flipping around in his grave."

 

[Magwik]

It's like s3 to me for a few reasons:
1) Team Arrow is still overloaded; there are just far too many caped crusaders running around for my tastes. Would be nice to get some focus on 2-3 characters. Because there are so many characters/vigilantes now it feels like everyone is underdeveloped--characters got powered up incredibly fast off-screen and now all they really do is throw and take punches, keep secrets for no reason, or complain about something minor for some cheap Soap drama... just nothing interesting going on character development wise.
2) No mystery about the big bad (we immediately know him), and his intentions and methods thus far seem incredibly stupid (much like Ras). I NEED TO DESTROY THIS CITY... why? Because it needs to be like reborn or renewed or some shit idk man. Yeah like we haven't been down this road already...
3) Ollie is still super unlikable to me in this season thus far. This obviously varies from person to person, but I liked cold, calculating, determined sociopath Ollie from season 1. Not whiny, hypocritical, suburban Gordon Ramsay Ollie from s4.
4) The episodes these days just lack substance/purpose to me so far. Every episode is incredibly formulaic with about 20-30 minutes of an action scene we've seen 100 times with the same thugs we've seen 100 times involving the same squad we've seen 100 times. Arrow just needs a big boom/reboot/shakeup somewhere imo (I was hoping for this last season); hopefully the season death is a catalyst for this. Perhaps get out of star city for a season or something. And as much as I love the flashbacks, it's painfully obvious they have completely run out of ideas for them, and are just stringing flashback Ollie along because they feel obligated to maintain the formula? S3 flashbacks were the weakest by far and I'm not expecting much for S4 flashbacks--which is a shame, because I love the personality of flashback Ollie as he's the closest thing to s1 Ollie!.

Just not feeling it so far, but like others have said... I loved this show in s1 (and s2), so I'm still hoping we get some sort of shakeup idk.

Yes the show could focus more on the characters, but two episodes into the season you can't really make that complaint since there is a lot to be done for the moment.

Just because we have a face and name doesn't mean there isn't mystery. We don't know who he is exactly, what he really wants, why HIVE killed Diggles brother, and the magic stuff. Plenty of mystery to go around (as well as the island army stuff)

Oliver the good guy is super unlikeable? Huh? It's a tad strange that you find the sociopathic vigilante murderer a more relatable version of Oliver.

Also what kind of a shakeup could you want? He's literally the Green Arrow now, he has Thea and Laurel at his side, he doesn't deal with the secret bullshit, it's not nearly as brooding anymore. That's the shakeup. It honestly just sounds like you want more Batman-Arrow than the actual Green Arrow, which I can understand considering that was the premise of the show in the first season, but it's never going to go down that route again, and I'd say it's also for the better. You're better off just dropping the show now since the tone isn't what you want out of it anymore.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I hate to say it, but I think Diggle needs to be written off the show. He serves no purpose but the bloat the team right now.

 

[Mokujin]

I like psycho Thea, and I'm really bored with Oliver always going all political correct and scolding her just for hurting some baddies that are really trying to kill them, really miss S1 ruthless Oliver.

 

[Magwik]

I hate to say it, but I think Diggle needs to be written off the show. He serves no purpose but the bloat the team right now.

After HIVE and his brother shit is taken care of, there isn't much of a reason for him to stick around honestly. Ollie doesn't need him as a conscious anymore and he really doesn't do much of anything either anymore

I like psycho Thea, and I'm really bored with Oliver always going all political correct and scolding her just for hurting some baddies that are really trying to kill them, really miss S1 ruthless Oliver.

The issue with psycho Thea is that her story at the moment isn't much different from S2 Royd Rage

 

[Joni]

Why would Barry be by Oliver's side and not Felicity?

Because Oliver is scared Barry is going to steal his fiancee.

So I'm going to be right. RIP Felicity.

That is cute. She has never been this popular.

 

[fallengorn]

After HIVE and his brother shit is taken care of, there isn't much of a reason for him to stick around honestly. Ollie doesn't need him as a conscious anymore and he really doesn't do much of anything either anymore

Sadly. They could always resurrect him to be the Red Hood.

 

[Volimar]

I've enjoyed all the seasons. Some more than others true, but I don't think I ever downright hated a season.

Pic from the movie Brooklyn

Saoirse really good at changing her appearance for the piece. Except the eyes.

 

[IconGrist]

I know the producers have said they haven't decided who is in the grave yet but I don't believe it. I am also on the "It's Felicity" train. Someone brought up the point earlier about having Barry there instead of Felicity who Oliver is actively dating. She never leaves his side unless he's out and about beating up bad guys.

As a side note, I might actually be mad if it's not her.

 

[Kyoufu]

I know the producers have said they haven't decided who is in the grave yet but I don't believe it. I am also on the "It's Felicity" train. Someone brought up the point earlier about having Barry there instead of Felicity who Oliver is actively dating. She never leaves his side unless he's out and about beating up bad guys.

As a side note, I might actually be mad if it's not her.

It's totally her. She's probably looking to do movies full time or something.

 

[Volimar]

I know the producers have said they haven't decided who is in the grave yet but I don't believe it. I am also on the "It's Felicity" train. Someone brought up the point earlier about having Barry there instead of Felicity who Oliver is actively dating. She never leaves his side unless he's out and about beating up bad guys.

As a side note, I might actually be mad if it's not her.

She's not there because if she was it'd rule her out as being in the grave. The phony suspense is more important than making sense.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

I know the producers have said they haven't decided who is in the grave yet but I don't believe it. I am also on the "It's Felicity" train. Someone brought up the point earlier about having Barry there instead of Felicity who Oliver is actively dating. She never leaves his side unless he's out and about beating up bad guys.

As a side note, I might actually be mad if it's not her.

I believe it. Barry and Oliver are characters that we 100% know will not be dead. The show ends at that point. We're following their journey. You can use Barry so Oliver has someone to talk to during that scene, and the other characters not being there adds to the mystique of the whole thing.

I mean...they have no reason to lie about that. If they had written it and knew, they'd just say "We're not telling you that."

Lost did the same kinda thing. Diggle is always with Ollie on and off the field, they probably have as many scenes together as Oliver and Felicity. If she died, where is he? You can make the same argument for literally any member of Team Arrow. If Thea died, Felicity & Diggle would be comforting him.

The same thing probably happened last season with "Who Killed the Canary?" They knew they wanted to have the murder mystery, but weren't sure who it would be from episode 1.

 

[Magwik]

I find it strange people complain about Laurel's training time when this is in a universe where a man was struck by lightning who runs really fast and can time travel now.It's not believable, it never was going to be believable, and it's not fun to watch a character struggle to put up a fight for an entire season.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I find it strange people complain about Laurel's training time when this is in a universe where a man was struck by lightning who runs really fast and can time travel now.It's not believable, it never was going to be believable, and it's not fun to watch a character struggle to put up a fight for an entire season.

That's different, though. Flash got his power through supernatural, magic means, so there is no question about it. Black Canary, though, is supposed to be a regular human who is adept at fighting. It's harder to believe because we regular humans know exactly what that would entail.

 

[Rooster12]

I hate to say it, but I think Diggle needs to be written off the show. He serves no purpose but the bloat the team right now.

That's what I've been saying a few pages back.

They're in limbo with him.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

The cast of Arrow get's very white if you get rid of Diggle. Just sayin'.

 

[Shaanyboi]

The cast of Arrow get's very white if you get rid of Diggle. Just sayin'.

They have Mr. Terrific now! And you know what Dwayne McDuffie says about the Rule of 3...

 

[ZeroX03]

The cast of Arrow get's very white if you get rid of Diggle. Just sayin'.

Flash is upping the racial diversity anyway, by the end of the season the main cast will be majority non-White.

I wouldn't want them to shy away from certain story beats out of fear of not meeting diversity quotas. There is Mister Terrific around now too.

 

[IconGrist]

Also, Mr. Terrific makes a great Felicity replacement. Just saying. <_<

 

[Kyoufu]

Who the hell is Mr. Terrific.

 

[IconGrist]

Who the hell is Mr. Terrific.

He's the guy who runs the tech operations in the Justice League.

 

[ReiGun]

The cast of Arrow get's very white if you get rid of Diggle. Just sayin'.

They had Vixen right there...and she got an animated show and no news of a live appearance.

The show started off much more diverse too.

 

[ZeroX03]

Who the hell is Mr. Terrific.

 

[BlackGhost]

Super curious to see the mr terrific costume?

 

[ZeroX03]

Super curious to see the mr terrific costume?

PLEASE.

 

[Poodlestrike]

He needs the tattoos.

Everything else is secondary.

 

[ascii42]

Who said he was on the Island.
Ollie was in other places also before he went home.

Many other places

"I spent 5 years on an island...okay actually it was only a couple weeks here and there"

 

[ZeroX03]

Legendary Malcom?

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Season 1 Oliver wasn't even that ruthless....

He killed people but he did worse back in S3's Flashbacks when torturing Shrieve.


One thing I've noticed is that there is no room for for softer characters in fiction. Everyone has to be ruthless, cold, and willing to constantly drop bodies. Like Season 1 Oliver was a fucking lunatic, a monster like Tommy called him. I can understand dropping bodies when necessary but jesus

 

[Anbokr]

Oliver the good guy is super unlikeable? Huh? It's a tad strange that you find the sociopathic vigilante murderer a more relatable version of Oliver.

Season 1 Oliver wasn't even that ruthless....

He killed people but he did worse back in S3's Flashbacks when torturing Shrieve.


One thing I've noticed is that there is no room for for softer characters in fiction. Everyone has to be ruthless, cold, and willing to constantly drop bodies. Like Season 1 Oliver was a fucking lunatic, a monster like Tommy called him. I can understand dropping bodies when necessary but jesus

It's not that at all. Tommy was an awesome character and yeah, he was soft as shit and a pure beta. There's definitely room for both types of characters on a tv show; just in particular I don't like soft Ollie, to me it just doesn't suit him. Island Ollie is still 1000x more interesting to me than present Ollie despite how awful the flashbacks have become. Arrow was initially fun/exciting because the "hero" didn't mind getting his hands dirty occasionally--he was different than what I (we?) are used to from say Batman/Superman.

Ollie was just a much more interesting character when he had a bit of a dark side, anti-heroes in general tend to be more interesting (i.e. Tony Soprano/Walter White). Goody two shoes absolutely no kill Superman/Batman/Jedi-man with automated response is no fun at all, and that's what Ollie is starting to become--a broken hypocritical record. I don't think it's strange at all to like ruthless Ollie or characters with a darker side; they generally are much more relate-able than say Obi-wan.

Anyhow, I ain't even that mad Ollie doesn't really kill anymore; I guess that had to happen eventually. Oliver in general just seems to have lost an edge in the last season or so idk. We'll see how this season plays out, I just hope it's better than the last. s3 left such a bitter taste.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Oliver losing that edge is sorta the point. That's why he's such a lighter character this season. Tbh everyone else is having issues and he's just trying to fix them all if he can.

 

[Rooster12]

Who the hell is Mr. Terrific.

He's possibly the smartest guy in the DC Universe.

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

He's possibly the smartest guy in the DC Universe.

Seriously? The smartest guy in the DCU is named..... Mr Terrific...?? He can't stretch, can he??

 

[Joni]

He doesn't need to stretch, women like him just fine, unlike Mr. 'Fantastic'.

 

[Rooster12]

Seriously? The smartest guy in the DCU is named..... Mr Terrific...?? He can't stretch, can he??

He has floating balls. And I'm sure he was created before Mr.Fantastic

 

[BronsonLee]

The best part of Arrow is the fact that it starts making increasingly less sense as the flashbacks go on

Though maybe his dumb ass will stay on the island this time after he murders everyone with a Nuke Arrow

 

[ReiGun]

It's not that at all. Tommy was an awesome character and yeah, he was soft as shit and a pure beta. There's definitely room for both types of characters on a tv show; just in particular I don't like soft Ollie, to me it just doesn't suit him. Island Ollie is still 1000x more interesting to me than present Ollie despite how awful the flashbacks have become. Arrow was initially fun/exciting because the "hero" didn't mind getting his hands dirty occasionally--he was different than what I (we?) are used to from say Batman/Superman.

Ollie was just a much more interesting character when he had a bit of a dark side, anti-heroes in general tend to be more interesting (i.e. Tony Soprano/Walter White). Goody two shoes absolutely no kill Superman/Batman/Jedi-man with automated response is no fun at all, and that's what Ollie is starting to become--a broken hypocritical record. I don't think it's strange at all to like ruthless Ollie or characters with a darker side; they generally are much more relate-able than say Obi-wan.

Anyhow, I ain't even that mad Ollie doesn't really kill anymore; I guess that had to happen eventually. Oliver in general just seems to have lost an edge in the last season or so idk. We'll see how this season plays out, I just hope it's better than the last. s3 left such a bitter taste.

Oliver was never going to keep that edge though. The showrunners said upfront one of the main points was that he'd eventually evolve into the Green Arrow proper. And, well, this is who the Green Arrow is. Sure he'll put an arrow in your head if you push him, but he's not nearly as grim as, say, Batman or Daredevil.

 

[gazele]

He has floating balls. And I'm sure he was created before Mr.Fantastic

He both was and he wasn't

The original Mr. Terrific was created in 1942, before Mr. Fantastic

However the version in the current comics and the one that the Arrow character is based on was created in 1997

 

[Kyoufu]

The pilot episode of Supergirl made me appreciate Arrow a hell of a lot more.

 

[Shaanyboi]

I dunno... last week's episode was.... fiiiiine? The only part I thought was all that cool was Canary swinging down on the cable arrow as it atleast looked like there was some level of teamwork and coordination between these guys. But I still don't give a fuck about the flashbacks, it's just all the more noticeable now how fucking boring and bland the show looks in terms of its staging and shot composition, and in general, most of the drama just reads as kinda hollow. I was looking at my phone alot this episode. I mean it's still better than the narrative trainwreck that Season 3 was, but I'm just not all that invested.

I will say Stephen Amell was a bit better this episode. I liked his awkward "self defense...?" line just as he jumped over the rail to chase Anarky. I thought the scene between Laurel and Diggle in the van was okay. But what does it say when Laurel's line "I'm still hungry... Why am I still hungry?" is way more humanizing than 99% of the dialogue on this show?

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Legendary Malcom?

Legendary swag.

 

[Magwik]

Legendary swag.

You're god damn right

 

[Tabby]

Clip for tomorrow's episode