Pretty sure it was.
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Arrow Season 4 |OT| A Tale of Salt and Fire
- Thread starter ZeroX03
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Pretty sure it was.
This post is 200% correct.
I have seen Supergirl. There are no good aliens in this universe.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
Except in the instances when she did exactly that.
Because she has a plot shield, she can do no wrong.
The moment that Oliver was surrounded by an army of friends and she was under personal conflict herself? That instance? That is indeed completely similar to the moment he is alone.
Ragnarsson
Member
That was a really bad ending to a really bad season. It's sad, because it started off with some promise, but man, it derailed so much and so fast.
The thing that annoyed me the most was the attempt at retroactively making the season look coherent and planned out, when it clearly wasn't. For the second season in a row, it's pretty obvious they have some general ideas of story beats they want to include, they may know roughly where they fit in the season, but they don't know how to get there. So, when things happen, they usually come out of left field and don't make the slightest sense. Like Laurel's death. It didn't make sense, it's a terrible creative decision, but hey, we had to kill someone, right? Because we promised we would! So, let's kill the one character that was finally becoming interesting! And then let's try to give some significance to her death and make it look like we care about this story to the point of planning things out!
Oliver's inner struggle in the finale didn't make sense - it could make sense, but in the context of the show it didn't, and it really doesn't help that they talk in terms such as "light" and "darkness". Thea's sudden "oh my God, I am my father's daughter, I'm outta here" moment was silly. Diggle's drama is unwarranted (I mean, his brother had just threatened his family... there's context to what he did). The flashbacks were somehow worse than Season 3's, and I honestly thought that was impossible a year ago.
Characters behave stupidly clearly just for the sake of undeserved drama and/or to make these story beats happen. Felicity is the most jarring example of this. Like most, I was a fan of Felicity in Seasons 1 and 2. What they did to her in Season 3 and (especially) Season 4 is appalling. And, at the end of the season, they double down on the things that just don't work (Donna, relationship drama). She went from being Chloe to becoming Lana Lang.
Everything about this show reeks of cheapness and laziness, and it's disappointing to think about how good it was and how bad it is nowadays. It feels like they've given up on making a good, compelling show.
The thing that annoyed me the most was the attempt at retroactively making the season look coherent and planned out, when it clearly wasn't. For the second season in a row, it's pretty obvious they have some general ideas of story beats they want to include, they may know roughly where they fit in the season, but they don't know how to get there. So, when things happen, they usually come out of left field and don't make the slightest sense. Like Laurel's death. It didn't make sense, it's a terrible creative decision, but hey, we had to kill someone, right? Because we promised we would! So, let's kill the one character that was finally becoming interesting! And then let's try to give some significance to her death and make it look like we care about this story to the point of planning things out!
Oliver's inner struggle in the finale didn't make sense - it could make sense, but in the context of the show it didn't, and it really doesn't help that they talk in terms such as "light" and "darkness". Thea's sudden "oh my God, I am my father's daughter, I'm outta here" moment was silly. Diggle's drama is unwarranted (I mean, his brother had just threatened his family... there's context to what he did). The flashbacks were somehow worse than Season 3's, and I honestly thought that was impossible a year ago.
Characters behave stupidly clearly just for the sake of undeserved drama and/or to make these story beats happen. Felicity is the most jarring example of this. Like most, I was a fan of Felicity in Seasons 1 and 2. What they did to her in Season 3 and (especially) Season 4 is appalling. And, at the end of the season, they double down on the things that just don't work (Donna, relationship drama). She went from being Chloe to becoming Lana Lang.
Everything about this show reeks of cheapness and laziness, and it's disappointing to think about how good it was and how bad it is nowadays. It feels like they've given up on making a good, compelling show.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
I was thinking of the time she miraculously gained the ability to walk again and used it to literally walk out on him because of some bullshit self-centred reason.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
The problem is that Oliver was going to a dark place at Laurel's grave, like he always does. They needed a character to come in to flip the perspective.
That gives Oliver the self confidence needed to become the Mayor, otherwise he'd be left wallowing in self pity... like he always does.
The only character that did not abandon him was Felicity. She was there to drag him out of that dark place he always retreats to and help him move forward. The final scene in the cave is a show of solidarity. That she's never leaving.
Character growth. She took a lot of what happened when she left personally. She blamed herself for Laurel's death because she wasn't there.
gundamkyoukai
Member
What did she do wrong again ?
She just rolling with the captain america logic .
You mean him lying to her ( his fiancé ) for months and also not talking to her about certain things .
Plus he still had everyone else he could talk and interact with close by .
Yes, that is the same moment I'm thinking. He is physically alone in that scene, but his friends are literally a couple of buildings away and ready for him. That is shown by amongst others Thea, Laurel and Diggle being there for him. It is different from his current predicament where they are all gone. They are doing what he did after the first season, and he is almost left behind. Felicity shows up to show that he doesn't need to face his 'duty' alone.
He is a big boy now, he achieved that based on Laurel's memory.
WrenchNinja
Member
that character should have been laurel tbqh. he went to laurels grave to talk to her, she wouldn't want him to wallow in self pity. she doesn't need to actually be there to trigger the realisation to move on if they wrote oliver with any agency of his own instead of having to haphazardly shove characters in randomly
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
I actually went and rewatched the scene because of this discussion.
Oliver was getting pretty depressed until Felicity reminded him of the hope he was able to inspire in people.
gundamkyoukai
Member
Talking about next season i hope we have few eps with just him by him self .
Even when the others come back they don't jump back in right away.
Like season 1 in a way .
Even when the others come back they don't jump back in right away.
Like season 1 in a way .
I meant more Laurel --> mayor. Laurel's grave leads him to becoming mayor, like she was ADA. Felicity showing up in the cave shows him that he is not alone again in the night, like he was in the very beginning. Thematically, Laurel was always his 'Oliver' woman while Felicity is his 'Arrow' woman.
It was pretty stupid on Barry's part, but the hype value of such a move was insane for anyone who knows about the Flashpoint storyline.
It's not unfathomable that after spending his life's effort to free his father from an unjust imprisonment, having to watch him get murdered in front of him despite his powers would break his conviction that he did the right thing not saving his mom. It's good enough for me.
Well the whole "is killing a bunch of people to save a greater number of lives justifiable?" is a huge ethical/philosophical debate. No one can say for sure whether it's right or wrong, but they should have at least touched on it IMO.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
Sure, they could do a lot of things. But reverting back to self pity is a character trait for Oliver, especially when he loses. He feels like he's lost himself with the team leaving him and him having to kill Darhk. He's vulnerable and needed help from a friend.
Like, I get it, you'd handle it differently. I'd handle a lot of stuff differently too. But she served a purpose in the scene. A purpose that if served by Diggle or Thea, let's say, wouldn't have even triggered this conversation.
We would be talking about how awful Felicity is for leaving him while 'X' stayed.
gundamkyoukai
Member
I know about the flashpoint story line and it's one of the reason why i not hype.
Just don't see it having the same effect on the tv show .
Hell most of the big player in flash point story not even in tv shows .
It might be huge ethical/philosophical debate among a lot of people .
But personal not so much to a specific person IMO.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
So which of team Arrow will meet SG first? I'm calling Diggler.
He will in any case have the best reaction.
morningbus
Serious Sam is a wicked gahbidge series for chowdaheads.
This if why we need Diggle for season 5.
Fuck, I'd take Diggle over Oliver at this point just for that.
Fuck, I'd take Diggle over Oliver at this point just for that.
Lashley
Why does he wear the mask!?
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
Supergirl will totally be on the island 
WrenchNinja
Member
An unnessecessary one. It probably would since they quit like 5 minutes earlier
I've never seen so many people just lose hope at once
Ollie is going to Russia for some weird reason. I know he has to but like I can't believe he can go to Russia casually and then come back to the island, pretend to be stranded, and somehow be the broken person he was in the pilot.Supergirl will totally be on the island
gundamkyoukai
Member
yep no matter what happens i can't see it being good.
Well at least we won't have to see them in season 6 any more i hope.
Yes, that was strange. Maybe she considered whatever he did during season 3 as a bit of vigilantism.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
She offered him a job and asked him if he wanted to fail as a vigilante instead like he did at the start of one of the seasons. It was a jab at least I took it as such.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
It's the most up voted thread on the subreddit lol
Episodes are too long and those cliffhangers feel cheap considering you immediately see the next one anyway.
I am absolutely loving that sub's descent into madness.
I want to like Daredevil but half the fun of watching DCTV shows is speculating and waiting for the next episode.
Utter trash
Arrow became fucking unwatchable after Daredevil. Even DD's low points outshine Arrow's best. Season 1 and 2 of Arrow had some moments of fun that could genuinely impress, even moments where you actually gave a fuck about the characters. But the dip in quality couldn't have been worse-timed.
gundamkyoukai
Member
What DD season 2 drop off was huge .
I don't even put season 2 of DD above arrow season 2 .
It started off good but second half was just a waste.
the first 4 episodes of DD s2 are some of the best comic bookery put to film. like reading a god damned mini series of yore.
its funny to put on in the background while playing a game or something. if you like the "bad movie" genre you will be entertained, as i was.
its funny to put on in the background while playing a game or something. if you like the "bad movie" genre you will be entertained, as i was.
Napoleonthechimp
Member
The season 4 finale had the lowest viewership out of all finale episodes in Arrow and the season as a whole was the lowest rated out of all of them (in terms of millions of total viewers).
GG Team Arrow.
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/
GG Team Arrow.
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/arrow-season-four-ratings-38484/
Poodlestrike
Banned
Shame about the next 9 episodes.
the whole season was dope, but that first arc is treated as a stand alone old school style cross over and it is straight up amazing
Not unexpected, live television is dropping. Second smallest drop in demo, third smallest in viewers.
dead souls
Member
No, I'm sure it's all Felicity's fault.
She also ruined iZombie then which lost 20% despite being one of the strongest shows of the year.
shecan'tkeepgettingawaywiththis.gif
gundamkyoukai
Member
Don't they wait like 7 days now with DVR views and all that sort of stuff for full ratings .
And i don't mean just for arrow but also everything else.
EDIT not like this is any help to networks really .
Napoleonthechimp
Member
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. It satisfies me immensely.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Nah
Nahhhhh
Season taken as a whole was mediocre.jiff as fuck. The Hand storyline was straight-up weak, and the only really engrossing part of the Punisher story was Fisk.
I'm not gonna compare it to Arrow as a whole, but DD S2 was, imo, weaker than Arrow S2
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