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As New York’s subway woes worsen, Washingtonians offer sympathy

K

KSweeley

Member
Link: https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...964754-6021-11e7-84a1-a26b75ad39fe_story.html

July 8th, 2017

When Metro Board Chairman Jack Evans arrived at the panel’s general meeting last month, he carried a copy of the New York Post featuring a characteristically provocative front page recounting the latest troubles of that city’s subway.

“For F’s sake,” read the headline, with a clever insertion of the orange symbol for New York’s “F” train. “Fix the subways!”

Evans used the headline as an opportunity for reflection on his own troubled transit system.

“Not that misery loves company . . . but I think this is another indicator that every one of the six subway systems throughout America is struggling with the same issues,” Evans said. “We’re not alone in this.”

Evans, it seems, is suffering from the affliction affecting many in the region: an acute case of subway schadenfreude — a slightly perverse sense of satisfaction in watching the failures of the nation’s premiere transit agency.

“Some of these stories about what’s going on in New York — you could take out the proper nouns and insert ‘Washington’ and they’d make sense,” said Zachary M. Schrag, a historian at George Mason University and author of the seminal Metro tome, “The Great Society Subway: A History of the Washington Metro.” “So I guess that’s somewhat of a consolation.”

That’s how it looks on Twitter, where Metro riders — their tweets dripping in the usual #WMATA levels of sarcasm — seem downright defensive about the New York subway, America’s busiest public transit system, making moves to unseat Metro as America’s most dysfunctional one.

“I guess New York felt left out with all the publicity @wmata got by being a bloody awful mess,” quipped one Metro rider.

“Hey look at New York trying to be like DC, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery @wmata,” joked another.

“Maybe we should invite folks to DC & show them what a truly awful commute looks like,” added another.

“WMATA should send the MTA a fruit basket with a note along the lines of ‘thanks for taking the heat off us!’ ” another tweeted.

But the similarities between the struggles at the MTA and Metro also point to a larger story — about the state of the nation’s infrastructure, the challenges of securing long-term investments for dull but necessary maintenance work, and about just how quickly a premiere transit system can begin to come apart at the seams.

“It is a national problem. It’s something that’s happening in lots of different Metro areas across the country. And New York is starting to get a taste of it,” said Robert Puentes, president and chief executive of the Eno Center for Transportation, a national think tank on transportation issues.

Puentes said significant responsibility for the MTA’s problems lies with Cuomo, who has prioritized projects such as the recent opening of the Second Avenue Subway and the completion of the 34th Street-Hudson Yards station — perhaps at the expense of paying adequate attention to state-of-repair needs.

“He has focused on newer investments and major infrastructure building projects, and now he has to play catch-up,” Puentes said, “because while you can cut a ribbon in front of new infrastructure, the unsexy stuff like day-to-day maintenance is much tougher to promote.”

Sound familiar, Washington?
Click to expand...
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
There are a couple interesting plans out there to fix metro and WMATA.

From Maryland legislators:

The proposal puts forth major changes that would fundamentally change WMATA. The major changes include the following:

  • Require a dedicated source of WMATA funding from DC, Maryland, and Virginia
  • Strengthen the Rider's Advisory Council, a committee of Metro riders that voices community concerns to WMATA.
  • Reform the way WMATA builds new tracks and buys new equipment.
  • Strengthen the role of the Inspector General, which audits WMATA. The proposal would give the IG more money, power over staffing decisions, and other abilities.
  • Change the composition of the WMATA Board of Directors to just include the heads of the jurisdictions’ departments of transportation. Right now, board members from Virginia are usually elected officials, ones from Maryland are strictly unelected, and those from DC are a mix of elected and unelected officials.
  • Make it so board members can’t veto decisions (any of them currently can).
Click to expand...

And on the dedicated funding front:

Currently, DC, Maryland, Virginia, and the federal government must each come up with funding every year as part of their budget processes. This means that the level of funding is unpredictable, and often insufficient. Consequently, WMATA General Director Paul Wiedefeld and others are pushing for regional governments to create a reliable source of funding that doesn’t depend on the whims of annual budget processes.

The legislators’ proposal points out that WMATA is unique among major American transit agencies for not having dedicated funding already. In practice, this currently means that WMATA’s bond rating is lower than other agencies (despite having less debt), increasing the cost of borrowing money. There is a growing consensus from the region’s leaders that a dedicated funding source is paramount for the future of Metro, so this is a step in the right direction for Maryland’s legislators.

The proposal leaves it up to each individual jurisdiction to decide how it wants to provide dedicated funding to WMATA, but does make a few suggestions for how to do it, such as increasing taxes on gas, property, or rental cars.
Click to expand...

And it has pretty widespread support:

The faith-based push came from the Industrial Areas Foundation, a network of local faith-based and community organizations each of which has a clever acronym: Washington Interfaith Network (WIN), Action in Montgomery (AIM), Baltimoreans United in Leadership Development (BUILD), People Acting Together in Howard (PATH), and Virginians Organized for Interfaith Community Engagements (VOICE). The five IAF affiliates teamed up with ATU Local 689 to push for $1 billion a year in new dedicated funding for Metro.

Last week, the Federal City Council, a DC-based group of business leaders, teamed up with the Greater Washington Board of Trade, five other business groups, and 14 chambers of commerce to issue a letter calling for ongoing funding and reforms. In addition to "multi-year commitments ... for operating funds," "a dedicated source for capital funding," and "a continuing funding commitment from the federal government," the business letter asks for reforms to WMATA's governance, in line with what the Federal City Council has been pushing for. (Disclosure: FCC's deputy director and leader on Metro, Emeka Moneme, is a member of the GGWash Board of Directors).

...

Besides the chambers of commerce of DC, Virginia, Northern Virginia, Arlington County, Prince William, Greater Springfield, Greater Reston, Greater McLean, Maryland, Montgomery County, Prince George's, Greater Bethesda, Greater Silver Spring, and the Greater Washington Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, other signatories to the letter include 2030 Group, the Apartment and Office Building Association, the Consortium of Universities, and the DC Building Industry Association.

...

That group includes Maryland organizations CASA, Action Committee for Transit, the Maryland Center on Economic Policy, League of Women Voters Montgomery County, Friends of White Flint, and the Montgomery Countryside Alliance; the Virginia Conservation Network, Northern Virginia Affordable Housing Alliance, Piedmont Environmental Council, Fairfax Advocates for Better Bicycling, and the Arlington Coalition for Sensible Transportation; the Sierra Club chapters and groups in DC, Virginia, Montgomery County, and Great Falls; the Chesapeake Bay Foundation and Washington Area Bicyclist Association.

...

So far, some Virginia legislators still aren't. Some in Loudoun County still want more study and feel Loudoun shouldn't have to pay even more after just joining WMATA formally (and not even having any stations yet). It's sort of like buying into a condo and then being hit with a big assessment to fix the roof. But is the alternative to let the roof collapse?

Loudoun may try to negotiate a different funding commitment, and that's really up to Virginia to work out internally. One way or another, though, Metro needs funding and appropriate reform.

Virginia legislators outside Northern Virginia may be the toughest sell, as many downstate delegates don't ride transit and have signed anti-tax pledges which include not allowing Northern Virginia to raise its own taxes, even if there's no impact outside the region.
Click to expand...
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Not entirely related but holy shit
4tDtsBD.png
 
S

siddx

Magnificent Eager Mighty Brilliantly Erect Registereduser
I'm visiting D.C. right now, metro system seems fine to me. Red line has long waits for trains but otherwise I've been on far worse public transport systems.
 
S

shiba5

Member
The Metro is indeed shit now. Trains are filthy, long waits, and always packed. Almost guaranteed there will be a busted escalator every damn time.
Last train I was on smelled like burning rubber the entire trip and we were afraid it was going to catch fire. Another one had no AC in the summer. I'd rather fucking drive into DC then ride Metro now.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Looking at some other figures both the Shanghai and Beijing subways are of comparable ridership to the NYC system and based on my experience they tend to be very efficient and usually clean, so I guess its not entirely a problem of scale
 
K

KSweeley

Member
shiba5 said:
The Metro is indeed shit now. Trains are filthy, long waits, and always packed. Almost guaranteed there will be a busted escalator every damn time.
Last train I was on smelled like burning rubber the entire trip and we were afraid it was going to catch fire. Another one had no AC in the summer. I'd rather fucking drive into DC then ride Metro now.
Click to expand...

The last Metro train I rode on that was clean and brightly lit was a 7000-series Metro car.
 
S

self_aware_keyboard

Member
siddx said:
I'm visiting D.C. right now, metro system seems fine to me. Red line has long waits for trains but otherwise I've been on far worse public transport systems.
Click to expand...

I was on D.C. metro last month, over all pretty good. Major grips,
The concrete stations look like coffin's, would a bit of art hurt them.

Literally impossible to hear the driver tell you the names of stops

For most lines (red is new carriages and nice I think) you have to hear the driver announce stuff.

Crap all signs of the station name on the walls, very awkward when arriving into station and not lined up with the few signs there are three.
 
W

WedgeX

Banned
shiba5 said:
The Metro is indeed shit now. Trains are filthy, long waits, and always packed. Almost guaranteed there will be a busted escalator every damn time.
Last train I was on smelled like burning rubber the entire trip and we were afraid it was going to catch fire. Another one had no AC in the summer. I'd rather fucking drive into DC then ride Metro now.
Click to expand...

I would never go back to driving in DC. Commutes within the city of 45 minute to 2 hours depending entirely on whether people had blocked the box or gotten into a crash, increased blood pressure, crazy aggressive drivers from all over the US, worrying about getting into a crash or someone scrapping my car when its parked. No thank you.

Commuting nearly every day by metro, I'll take the occasional slowdowns over the above.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
If I recall Washington was actually made to be fully automated operation but for some employee political reason they turned that off.
 
K

KSweeley

Member
Gallbaro said:
If I recall Washington was actually made to be fully automated operation but for some employee political reason they turned that off.
Click to expand...

I heard that too as well, the Washington subway system was to be fully automated. Don't know where confirmation can be found on that.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
KSweeley said:
I heard that too as well, the Washington subway system was to be fully automated. Don't know where confirmation can be found on that.
Click to expand...
Quick Google confirms.

Also I have been reading into WMATA apparently they operate sooooo much worse than MTA.

Their Central control room operators apparently remember against new employees and written operational procedures. They actively want understaffing because they are used to overtime.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
WedgeX said:
The original reason for halting the fully automatic system was that it caused one of the few metro crashes, killing nine people. Though metro's higher ups decided to push implementation further back again.

Not sure why there's the need to hang it on metro operators?
Click to expand...
Seems like shitty maintenance by humans, which WMATA is notorious for caused the crash, not the system. Humans are always worse than machines at this point.

I mean c'mon. http://wtop.com/tracking-metro-24-7...epartment-disciplined-over-falsified-reports/
 
S

shiba5

Member
KSweeley said:
The last Metro train I rode on that was clean and brightly lit was a 7000-series Metro car.
Click to expand...

I'm going to date myself. I remember the 1112 cars and my parents driving to Silver Spring to ride into DC because the line to Shady Grove didn't exist yet.

WedgeX said:
I would never go back to driving in DC. Commutes within the city of 45 minute to 2 hours depending entirely on whether people had blocked the box or gotten into a crash, increased blood pressure, crazy aggressive drivers from all over the US, worrying about getting into a crash or someone scrapping my car when its parked. No thank you.

Commuting nearly every day by metro, I'll take the occasional slowdowns over the above.
Click to expand...

That's why I got up at 4:30 every morning. (It sucked.)
My husband drives down Canal everyday and it's usually not too bad.
 
S

Strimei

Member
siddx said:
I'm visiting D.C. right now, metro system seems fine to me. Red line has long waits for trains but otherwise I've been on far worse public transport systems.
Click to expand...

As a former DC-area native, the escalators are always breaking, they had a number of fire/electrical problems in recent years, the cars themselves have carpet (or at least the old ones did) which just IMAGINE the grime and god knows what else is soaked in them, and one of the stations has one of the longest escalators in the world (largest in western hemisphere, 7th largest in the world. Its Wheaton station, for the record), which is honestly kinda scary when you're on it.
 
F

Fuchsdh

Member
I think it's fair to say that the DC Metro and NY Subway have the same basic problems, with pushing forward on new rails (silver line in DC, East side extension in NY) over maintenance, bad management, and generally lower funding than should be invested in a public good. DC's problem is compounded by the fact that three different governments are pooling into it. I'm hopeful at least the dedicated funding solution that Wedge mentions gains traction and goes into effect, because that'll at least assist in moving the other problems forward if money isn't constantly a concern year-to-year.

There's also some systemic problems with the lines itself (limited tunnel crossings into the city) which compound train delays and would be pretty expensive capital projects to ameliorate.

The idea of Metro cars and stations being dirtier than NY though, carpet or no, is crazy. The whole rebuttal to how much nicer the DC metro was used to be that while it wasn't the prettiest, the NY metro was bigger and faster and always worked. And now unfortunately it can't really claim that advantage.
 
K

KSweeley

Member
Strimei said:
As a former DC-area native, the escalators are always breaking, they had a number of fire/electrical problems in recent years, the cars themselves have carpet (or at least the old ones did) which just IMAGINE the grime and god knows what else is soaked in them, and one of the stations has one of the longest escalators in the world (largest in western hemisphere, 7th largest in the world. Its Wheaton station, for the record), which is honestly kinda scary when you're on it.
Click to expand...

WMATA is finally removing the carpet from some of their subway cars: https://www.wmata.com/about/back2good/initiatives.cfm

Next: execute a "Get Well" plan for railcars. Accelerate the retirement of the oldest and most unreliable cars, commission a total of 50 new trains, implement targeted repair campaigns of defective components on the legacy fleet, and rebalance the rail yards to avoid missing terminal dispatches.
  • By the end of 2017, all 8-car trains will be 7000 Series consists
  • All 1000 Series cars will be retired before December 2017
  • Accelerate retirement of least reliable (4000 Series) cars - all 100 removed from service by end of 2017, subject to NTSB agreement
  • Released from the burden of bellying and operating with the least reliable cars, rebalance rail yards to have the right number of trains per line for the start of service every morning as well as the afternoon peak
  • Begin operating same series consists to improve train line performance
  • Complete component fixes on legacy fleet - 2000, 3000, 5000 and 6000 Series cars, including HVAC, propulsion systems, and pneumatic brakes to reduce train offloads
  • Finish replacing carpet with resilient flooring on 6000 Series cars
Click to expand...
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
Fuchsdh said:
I think it's fair to say that the DC Metro and NY Subway have the same basic problems, with pushing forward on new rails (silver line in DC, East side extension in NY) over maintenance, bad management, and generally lower funding than should be invested in a public good. DC's problem is compounded by the fact that three different governments are pooling into it. I'm hopeful at least the dedicated funding solution that Wedge mentions gains traction and goes into effect, because that'll at least assist in moving the other problems forward if money isn't constantly a concern year-to-year.
Click to expand...
I know WMATA is a regional pissing contest.

But NY MTA has plenty of dedicated finding sources and was bailed out several years ago.

NY MTA's problem is they should be getting at least twice the amount of construction and maintenance work done for the money spent.
 
S

Strimei

Member
KSweeley said:
WMATA is finally removing the carpet from some of their subway cars: https://www.wmata.com/about/back2good/initiatives.cfm
Click to expand...

Thank god.

As a kid I did think the idea of having carpet in the cars was kinda neat, it lent a certain appearance too, but as the years went on and those things just soaked up more of anything and everything, I realized just how gross that was. Not saying that its dirtier than NYC's, mind, just...really gross. Not gonna touch the floor, either way, but at least I know the floor of NYC's metro isn't soaking up liquids as much as WMATA's carpet.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
What do you guys think of WMATA's new 7k fleet? I know they aren't common yet since they're still being rolled out

"Back2Good" is hilarious btw. Yikes
 
K

KSweeley

Member
Strimei said:
Thank god.

As a kid I did think the idea of having carpet in the cars was kinda neat, it lent a certain appearance too, but as the years went on and those things just soaked up more of anything and everything, I realized just how gross that was. Not saying that its dirtier than NYC's, mind, just...really gross. Not gonna touch the floor, either way, but at least I know the floor of NYC's metro isn't soaking up liquids as much as WMATA's carpet.
Click to expand...

I rode on the carpeted subway cars in the summer before and needed to hold my nose because you could have the strong smell of urine inside the cars that have the carpet.
 
K

KSweeley

Member
Socreges said:
What do you guys think of WMATA's new 7k fleet? I know they aren't common yet since they're still being rolled out

"Back2Good" is hilarious btw. Yikes
Click to expand...

I rode on the 7k cars, I actually like them, very smooth, pretty quiet ride. Very bright, that's how I could tell the difference between an old Metro subway car and the 7k ones, the 7k cars have very bright LED interior lighting.
 
T

Tuck

Member
Gallbaro said:
If I recall Washington was actually made to be fully automated operation but for some employee political reason they turned that off.
Click to expand...

Not outside the realm of possibility.

They did this on a line in Toronto, and it caused a ton of problems.
 
S

shiba5

Member
KSweeley said:
WMATA is finally removing the carpet from some of their subway cars: https://www.wmata.com/about/back2good/initiatives.cfm
Click to expand...

Finally.
I think the maintenance was much better when I was a kid because I remembered the cars always being clean even with the carpet.
The cars are just disgusting now - vomit, piss stains, and god knows what else. Actually saw a banana peel and other garbage under the seats of the last train I was on. It's sad how much it has deteriorated.
Also, back2good? LOL
 
G

GK86

Homeland Security Fail
Wag said:
I grew up in Queens past the last stop. I used to take the F train from 179th Street all the way to Coney Island. Took almost 2hrs.
Click to expand...

They really need to build the Triboro RX line in our lifetimes.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
Tuck said:
Not outside the realm of possibility.

They did this on a line in Toronto, and it caused a ton of problems.
Click to expand...
Line 14 in Paris is fully automated.

The times square shuttle was fully automated, then mysteriously caught on fire a few times.
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
Socreges said:
What do you guys think of WMATA's new 7k fleet? I know they aren't common yet since they're still being rolled out
Click to expand...

So much nicer, can hear announcements, easier to tell what stations are coming up, a lot cleaner. That said they've all started to smell like a barn now in ways the others don't.

It's too bad it was built as a commuter train first and not a legit subway. Days like today suck when you get on at Reston, have to change trains at Ballston, and then you get kicked off at Foggy Bottom because there aren't any trains between it and Federal Triangle for maintenance.
 
W

WeAreStarStuff

Member
siddx said:
I'm visiting D.C. right now, metro system seems fine to me. Red line has long waits for trains but otherwise I've been on far worse public transport systems.
Click to expand...

Our metro system here in DC is garbage tier 50% of the time and serviceable the other half. If you lived here you would hate it.
 
G

Gallbaro

Banned
https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2017/7/11/15949284/new-york-subway-crisis

The MTA itself says the problems are about overcrowding. But this is an excuse. First, Chicago has had as large a growth in L ridership as New York has on the subway, without the recent breakdowns. An inside source at the MTA explains that by policy, each train delay must be logged with an official cause and that when no cause is formally identified, they often write down “crowding” as a default catchall rather than a real explanation.
Click to expand...

Alon is one of the most respected transit wonks in the world.
 
Z

Zeus Molecules

illegal immigrants are stealing our air
I live near Brooklyn college and use to work at Hunts point in the Bronx. I had a daily 3 - 4 hour commute..... Fun times
 
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