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Assassin's Creed III |OT| Easier to read than Ratonhnhaké:ton

Vire

Member
If you understand it quite well then you wouldn't have all those questions as they are answered in the games (well most of them).

Those aren't questions, I'm saying there is no central focus to the story. It's just a giant mess of moving pieces.

What is the central takeaway? What is the theme of the series? What is the threat? Templars, Ancient Civilization boogey men, or the End of the World in 2012?

It's just not coherent at all and half the things they introduce come out thin air with no previous mention in the prior games because they just make this shit up on the fly.

Because Kirsten Bell's contract was only for three games.

Bingo.
 

hlhbk

Member
Those aren't questions, I'm saying there is no central focus to the story. It's just a giant mess of moving pieces.

What is the central takeaway? What is the theme of the series? What is the threat? Templars, Ancient Civilization boogey men, or the End of the World in 2012?

It's just not coherent at all and half the things they introduce come out thin air with no previous mention in the prior games because they just make this shit up on the fly.



Bingo.

The threat? All of them. You might think you understand them, but it doesn't sound like it.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Please enlighten me on the "brilliance" of the Assassin's Creed story that I simply just "don't understand".

I dare you to watch this introduction recap without laughing.

oh my god I haven't seen that video lol

Edit: This shit is funny. Is this really what the story was supposed to be?

Edit 2: Skipping forward... even this introduction video supposedly clarifying things is convoluted as fuck. The HELL

Edit 3: Can't watch anymore. Will wait for the rest on Game Day. Too funny though :p
 

News Bot

Banned
While Assassin's Creed would do a lot better without the Desmond/science fiction arc, it's not a bad story, or "one of the best".

I'd like to see a few examples of "good" stories from people constantly deriding it. AC, like many games, is pure pulp. But it's often enjoyable despite its low points.
 
Not sure if anyone posted this, Previously On Trailer, nice recap of the story of AC1 through Revelations.

I myself never beat Brotherhood or Revelations and with AC3 right around the corner, I don't want to burn myself out by playing the previous installments.
 

Irish

Member
L1 wasn't "look", it was lock. You were free to "look" at whatever was on screen and then "lock" on to a specifc target. Obviously if one button is for activating Eagle Vision at will, it can't also be used for another look function.

What are you doing when you 'lock' on to a person? You're focusing your vision on that person which is a head-related action, wouldn't you say? Tap the button for lock-on. Hold that button in- Eagle Vision.

Of course, all I'm saying is that there were definite inconsistencies with the control scheme before even when attempting to go for marionette feel. Worthy of a lengthy discussion? Probably not, so you're right about that, but I just thought the topic was interesting.



_


I, for one, never really think about the future stuff when I talk about its story, because that stuff really doesn't register much with me. I really do believe the other stuff not involving advanced civilization nonsense is pretty damn good.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
game is on my radar, but it takes more than evil Washington to ease my concerns about how one-sided this is looking like
 

Amir0x

Banned
While Assassin's Creed would do a lot better without the Desmond/science fiction arc, it's not a bad story.

I'd like to see a few examples of "good" stories from people constantly deriding it. AC, like many games, is pure pulp. But it's often enjoyable despite its low points.

It depends on how you approach the idea of game storytelling. It's never about how complex or stuffed you can make something, it's what you do with the medium that makes it interesting.

To me, almost all game stories are awful. But there are two types that seem to break the trend, and I can separate them by their flagship examples:

1. Planescape Torment - Extremely dense and superbly well plotted top-of-the-class story that sacrifices gameplay quality in the name of storytelling cohesiveness. In games like this, the storytelling might be experimental or avant-garde, or it might be straightforward but extremely dense and detailed and, generally, written by someone with talent in the field. These games frequently have gameplay which may be an 'afterthought', but stories which pick up the slack for their underwhelming mechanics. These are rare games indeed, I can only list like maybe six-to-ten that really do the story well enough to make up for their gameplay shortcomings.

2. Shadow of the Colossus - These titles take the opposite approach: vague or interpretive storylines which use the medium of gaming to impose emotions on the player that allow an open dialogue with the characters or events taking place. These titles usually utilize the advantages of the gaming medium - like forcing the player to participate in the brutal murder of seemingly gentle colossus' - to make the player comprehend the scenario at hand, rather than long passages of writing by talented folk. They also often have low frequency of dialogue, in favor of character emoting (say, the way Link does in Wind Waker) or specialized events which cause a player to consider his/her actions.


Titles like Assassin's Creed, at least to me, fall in some no man's land that doesn't do anything well at all with regards to storytelling, unless you're talking about extremely specific moments. They're poorly plotted, frequently non-cohesive and convoluted, and they use the medium of gaming terribly as it relates to the advantages of storytelling.

I want to say that I believe part of the problem is this whole MAKE A GAME, EXPECT A TRILOGY™ nonsense these days. Every game series has to be a trilogy, and because of that plotting and planning becomes infinitely more complex over the six-to-ten years it might take to release all three games. Staff changes, leaves... it's extremely hard to be consistent about storytelling in such an environment.

But part of it is just lousy writing altogether and a poor emphasis on integrating storytelling in a way that makes sense for gaming.
 

Vire

Member
It depends on how you approach the idea of game storytelling. It's never about how complex or stuffed you can make something, it's what you do with the medium that makes it interesting.

Titles like Assassin's Creed, at least to me, fall in some no man's land that doesn't do anything well at all with regards to storytelling, unless you're talking about extremely specific moments. They're poorly plotted, frequently non-cohesive and convoluted, and they use the medium of gaming terribly as it relates to the advantages of storytelling.

I want to say that I believe part of the problem is this whole MAKE A GAME, EXPECT A TRILOGY™ nonsense these days. Every game series has to be a trilogy, and because of that plotting and planning becomes infinitely more complex over the six-to-ten years it might take to release all three games. Staff changes, leaves... it's extremely hard to be consistent about storytelling in such an environment.

But part of it is just lousy writing altogether and a poor emphasis on integrating storytelling in a way that makes sense for gaming.
Some really great points. Especially the whole Trilogy bit, I think the Mass Effect series suffered in the same respect in that they continually had to iterate without laying out the groundwork before hand. Most of it was just made up as each game passed by (Cerberus, Human Reaper, Space Child). This leaves a lack of cohesion/coherence to the overall story.

Assassin's Creed is ESPECIALLY guilty of this and the story suffers as a result.

An interesting article worth reading, that touches on this topic and how they are addressing it for the Halo Series in the future.
 
Desmond
stabbed her when he was under Juno's control because Juno knew because she was a templar

Personally I don't find the story all that hard to follow though it definitely has weak points.

I compare it to Lost. You have the purists who hold up The Wire as God's gift to television and look down from their ivory tower at all the plebians who enjoy shows like Lost. It's the same thing here. They'll hold up classics like Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex, but how could any unenlightened halfwit possibly like a wacky story like from Assassin's Creed?
 
I compare it to Lost. You have the purists who hold up The Wire as God's gift to television and look down from their ivory tower at all the plebians who enjoy shows like Lost. It's the same thing here. They'll hold up classics like Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex, but how could any unenlightened halfwit possibly like a wacky story like from Assassin's Creed?

tumblr_maheevGvCN1qesv9d.gif
 

NBtoaster

Member
I compare it to Lost. You have the purists who hold up The Wire as God's gift to television and look down from their ivory tower at all the plebians who enjoy shows like Lost. It's the same thing here. They'll hold up classics like Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex, but how could any unenlightened halfwit possibly like a wacky story like from Assassin's Creed?

I don't have high standards for plot. I even enjoyed the story of Crysis 2 and Killzone 3. But everything they introduced at the end of AC2 was jaw-droppingly dumb, it came out of nowhere and way more wacky that anything that came before in the games.
 
I compare it to Lost. You have the purists who hold up The Wire as God's gift to television and look down from their ivory tower at all the plebians who enjoy shows like Lost. It's the same thing here. They'll hold up classics like Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex, but how could any unenlightened halfwit possibly like a wacky story like from Assassin's Creed?

ibltd0jNTwPOB2.gif
 

Amir0x

Banned
I don't have high standards for plot. I even enjoyed the story of Crysis 2 and Killzone 3. But everything they introduced at the end of AC2 was jaw-droppingly dumb, it came out of nowhere and way more wacky that anything that came before in the games.

it's part two of the attacks from people who don't want to engage in discussion:

1. Attack from weakness - "You just don't GET the story"
2. Attack from high horse - "You're just too much of an ELITIST to appreciate this brainless piece of popcorn entertainment!"

Part 3 Preview

3. Attack from Nitpicking - "Oh you're just making mountains out of molehills! You're going to complain about THAT clearly insignificant aspect of this thing I love!?"
 

Vire

Member
I compare it to Lost. You have the purists who hold up The Wire as God's gift to television and look down from their ivory tower at all the plebians who enjoy shows like Lost. It's the same thing here. They'll hold up classics like Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex, but how could any unenlightened halfwit possibly like a wacky story like from Assassin's Creed?

I don't have a problem with people enjoying it as a guilty pleasure, but to call it good, let alone "the best storytelling this generation"... is pretty mind-blowing.

I've still yet to hear a coherent argument for the games story by the way other than, "you just dun understand guyz".
 

paparazzo

Member
So apparently my Best Buy (had a gc) pre-order has shipped. I went with the standard free shipping, which initially estimated 11/2 - 11/6 delivery. Anyone have any experiences with BB's standard shipping arrival coming sooner than estimated? Not that I should be playing it next week anyway, should be studying for midterms..
 
I can confirm the game looks better then those screen shots. They look the way they do cause the textures are not loaded for that section due to being high up and also the way they handle them as they get better as you get closer. It just is a really poor section of the area. When in the city it looks great and even when on the ground in that area it doesn't look nearly as bad. I can post some screen shots later.
 

Zeliard

Member
It depends on how you approach the idea of game storytelling. It's never about how complex or stuffed you can make something, it's what you do with the medium that makes it interesting.

To me, almost all game stories are awful. But there are two types that seem to break the trend, and I can separate them by their flagship examples:

1. Planescape Torment - Extremely dense and superbly well plotted top-of-the-class story that sacrifices gameplay quality in the name of storytelling cohesiveness. In games like this, the storytelling might be experimental or avant-garde, or it might be straightforward but extremely dense and detailed and, generally, written by someone with talent in the field. These games frequently have gameplay which may be an 'afterthought', but stories which pick up the slack for their underwhelming mechanics. These are rare games indeed, I can only list like maybe six-to-ten that really do the story well enough to make up for their gameplay shortcomings.

2. Shadow of the Colossus - These titles take the opposite approach: vague or interpretive storylines which use the medium of gaming to impose emotions on the player that allow an open dialogue with the characters or events taking place. These titles usually utilize the advantages of the gaming medium - like forcing the player to participate in the brutal murder of seemingly gentle colossus' - to make the player comprehend the scenario at hand, rather than long passages of writing by talented folk. They also often have low frequency of dialogue, in favor of character emoting (say, the way Link does in Wind Waker) or specialized events which cause a player to consider his/her actions.


Titles like Assassin's Creed, at least to me, fall in some no man's land that doesn't do anything well at all with regards to storytelling, unless you're talking about extremely specific moments. They're poorly plotted, frequently non-cohesive and convoluted, and they use the medium of gaming terribly as it relates to the advantages of storytelling.

I want to say that I believe part of the problem is this whole MAKE A GAME, EXPECT A TRILOGY™ nonsense these days. Every game series has to be a trilogy, and because of that plotting and planning becomes infinitely more complex over the six-to-ten years it might take to release all three games. Staff changes, leaves... it's extremely hard to be consistent about storytelling in such an environment.

But part of it is just lousy writing altogether and a poor emphasis on integrating storytelling in a way that makes sense for gaming.

This is a good post.
 

Derrick01

Banned
I compare it to Lost. You have the purists who hold up The Wire as God's gift to television and look down from their ivory tower at all the plebians who enjoy shows like Lost. It's the same thing here. They'll hold up classics like Baldur's Gate or Deus Ex, but how could any unenlightened halfwit possibly like a wacky story like from Assassin's Creed?

No one holds up deus ex for its story.

Although it is god's gift to gaming.

edit: On AC, the story is terribly written for sure but I am interested in seeing how it ends. I don't need something to be great to follow along.
 

hlhbk

Member
I don't have a problem with people enjoying it as a guilty pleasure, but to call it good, let alone "the best storytelling this generation"... is pretty mind-blowing.

I've still yet to hear a coherent argument for the games story by the way other than, "you just dun understand guyz".

We pointed out why you don't seem to understand. You didn't understand the lucy part and you don't seem to understand what the threat is. Considering these are pretty important parts of the game yeah its fair to assume you don't understand the story.
 

Draconian

Member
The Lucy twist might be less insulting if it wasn't carried out in the most hamfisted way possible. Whose stupid idea was it to bury that in some DLC pack that hardly anyone bought? I went two years without having a clue why that happened and fully expected it to be explained in the main game of Revelations or III. Boy was I wrong. If I hadn't read this thread, I would've assumed it was still unresolved.
 
The Lucy twist might be less insulting if it wasn't carried out in the most hamfisted way possible. Whose stupid idea was it to bury that in some DLC pack that hardly anyone bought? I went two years without having a clue why that happened and fully expected it to be explained in the main game of Revelations or III. Boy was I wrong. If I hadn't read this thread, I would've assumed it was still unresolved.

pJEpS.gif


I agree, that was the worst.
 
People seriously got invested in the story?? The story is so bad its like a cheesy parody. Seriously how the fuck can anyone make sense of that wacky ass shit? First game was straight forward enough i guess, then the writers began taking acid on their lunchbreaks.
 

CrazyDude

Member
People seriously got invested in the story?? The story is so bad its like a cheesy parody. Seriously how the fuck can anyone make sense of that wacky ass shit? First game was straight forward enough i guess, then the writers began taking acid on their lunchbreaks.

It's pretty simple if you keep up with stuff.
 

Amir0x

Banned
real quick, does anyone know if this game has a disguise system like AC Liberation? That is exactly the type of mechanic I wanted in AC games, so was wondering if it makes any show here?
 

Vire

Member
Lucy's motivations make no sense. If she was with the Templars why would she have helped Desmond to break out of Abstergo Industries (killing people in the process), as well as giving Desmond a hidden blade.
 

Amir0x

Banned
No it does not.

Sadly no.

Thanks :(

Kind of weird that the mechanic gets introduced in the handheld game, considering how much sense it makes in this universe... but ah well, it didn't kill the other AC games and I suppose it won't kill this one either

NotTheGuyYouKill said:
Because of... reasons.

I'm just going to throw shit at a wall here: maybe she needed to be REALLY convincing so that they trusted Lucy enough to truly search for the Piece of Eden in her presence?
 
Having a lot of fun with the game, I need more time to get used to climbing, it feels different, more natural and with more animations but at the same time it feels maybe a little "floaty", the combat is great, so far easy but you get surprised but enemies, some attack you while you are in the initial frames of a counterattack.


The problem with the low textures while you are on high places it's common on 360, but for me only in open places with some objects (houses, tents...), I didn't notice anything like that when you are in the middle of the cities or the frontier so far.

Popping is awful, it's present all the time, at least zero tearing.


Another thing that I love it's the gun, you have to think very well when to fire, it takes forever to reload even the pistol, no more spamming hidden gun. Also I think it's great that every story mission has secondary objetives, sometimes you have a little window to achieve them and sometimes they are no in plain sight and they don't have a big green mark to tell you "go there".
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Lucy's motivations make no sense. If she was with the Templars why would she have helped Desmond to break out of Abstergo Industries (killing people in the process), as well as giving Desmond a hidden blade.

I think it actually said the whole breakout was staged.

The thing is incredibly goddamn convoluted, lol.
 
Having a lot of fun with the game, I need more time to get used to climbing, it feels different, more natural and with more animations but at the same time it feels maybe a little "floaty", the combat is great, so far easy but you get surprised but enemies, some attack you while you are in the initial frames of a counterattack.


The problem with the low textures while you are on high places it's common on 360, but for me only in open places with some objects (houses, tents...), I didn't notice anything like that when you are in the middle of the cities or the frontier so far.

Popping is awful, it's present all the time, at least zero tearing.

Is it installed to the HD.

I just got it and wondering if that improves it.
 
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