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[Fezan]

Guys seriously you should all stop discussing religion and blame games in here. There will be other threads for that. Its a big tragedy. Pray for both who died and who are their to pick bodies of the loved ones.

 

[Azih]

Imran Khan is a joke because of things like this.

Seriously gaffers lay off the religionLol for just a damn bit. Do some posters here really have this bullshit need to attack Islam and then whine about being called Islamophobic even in this thread?

 

[Stereogatari]

Okay, just because there are other motivations like power doesn't mean religion isn't involved. By that logic the Crusades weren't religious because certain people and groups were also out to gain political power.

But what is making these guys interpret Islam in that way and pick up guns, and the rest of the Muslim world in another way where they just live normal lives.

Newsnight reporting that Imran Khan is refusing to condemn the Taliban for the attack, which is pretty damn depressing.

They also had what sounded like an excerpt from the Taliban. Seemed pretty clear it was a response to attacks by the Army. Claims of the army slaughtering 600 people from their tribes and throwing their bodies into sacks from the Taliban.

I'm sure this is old news, but I thought I'd share anyway.

Imran Khan has been a bit light handed with the Taliban in the past too. He shares their ethnicity of course.

 

[Maninthemirror]

But what is making these guys interpret Islam in that way and pick up guns, and the rest of the Muslim world in another way where they just live normal lives.



Imran Khan has been a bit light handed with the Taliban in the past too. He shares their ethnicity of course.

Bit? he will lose the election now just wait and see because of his refusal to deal with taliban. we need someone who takes a thousand rollers and a 10,000 person army and kill all the taliban in one go

 

[xbhaskarx]

But what is making these guys interpret Islam in that way, and the rest of the Muslim world in another way.

Every holy book is interpreted in different ways by different people (see Christians, Jews, etc.), with one group claiming the other has it wrong and aren't "true Muslims/Christians/etc". Beyond that do you want a long list of passages from the Koran that condone violence?

 

[double jump]

These stories get sadder by the day. What's the rationale behind harming kids ?

 

[Deleted member 17706]

These stories get sadder by the day. What's the rationale behind harming kids ?

There can be no justification for what they did of course, but a couple of posts up had a statement from the group, citing that it was done as retribution for the murders of their family members at the hands of the military. Eye for an eye, pretty much. A never-ending cycle of violence.

 

[Azih]

But what is making these guys interpret Islam in that way and pick up guns, and the rest of the Muslim world in another way where they just live normal lives.

For the same reason that Christians can be complete Pacifists or Crusaders. I don't even know why this sort of thing is confusing.

 

[Maninthemirror]

some people here must think this US law is bad

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_self-defense


lol

but most people are sane and realise there is a difference when there is Murder and when there is self defense.

 

[Stereogatari]

Every holy book is interpreted in different ways by different people (see Christians, Jews, etc.), with one group claiming the other has it wrong and aren't "true Muslims/Christians/etc". Beyond that do you want a long list of passages from the Koran that condone violence?

For the same reason that Christians can be complete Pacifists or Crusaders. I don't even know why this sort of thing is confusing.

No, but I'm saying we can investigate the reasons to why people are led to a certain interpretation and others aren't etc. Anyway as said above, the reason they did this attack was more complicated than simply religion.

FWIW I've read the whole Quran in English and it's a boring piece of literature, and certainly filled with violent, unscientific and backwards rhetoric. I'm a Turkish Atheist, luckily Turks tend to believe in what I call Disney Islam. It's like the Christianity of Middle America, cherry picked to suit Western Humanist taste.

Literally the majority of Turks I know believe in a form of Islam where you just believe God exists and be a good person and that's it. They drink, have relationships before marriage, dress how they want, bikinis, hair uncovered, don't pray etc. yet still identify as Muslim and if I told them I'm Atheist they'd be shocked.

 

[Azih]

No, but I'm saying we can investigate the reasons to why people are led to a certain interpretation and others aren't etc.

For the history of it look up Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. And that's all I'm saying about the religion in this thread. Good God.

 

[Stereogatari]

For the history of it look up Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. And that's all I'm saying about the religion in this thread. Good God.

I know mate, and also Qutb is another good example.

 

[Sayah]

RIP to the victims and hope the families of victims pull the courage to stay tough in this time of tragedy.

TTP and similar groups need to be completely eradicated.

 

[Aspiring]

I'm a Turkish Atheist, luckily Turks tend to believe in what I call Disney Islam. It's like the Christianity of Middle America, cherry picked to suit Western Humanist taste.

Literally the majority of Turks I know believe in a form of Islam where you just believe God exists and be a good person and that's it. They drink, have relationships before marriage, dress how they want, bikinis, hair uncovered, don't pray etc. yet still identify as Muslim and if I told them I'm Atheist they'd be shocked.

Yes I am Turkish with Muslim parents and grandparents but am not a Muslim myself. I was speaking with a lebanese guy once who asked what I was. I said I was turkish and my parents were Muslim. He scoffed at me and said all Turks are wanna be Muslims. When I thought about it it is true. They are like my Christian friends. Identify themselves as Christian but really do nothing they should.

But anyway this is absolutely terrible and may all these poor people rest in peace. So sad.

 

[wildfire]

Suicide bombing children. I didn't realize a new low could be reached.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

This is heartbreaking. There is no rationale that can ever justify this. There is no single religion in the world that justifies this. I think our Pakistani fellow gaffers are going through enough without people telling them their religion, the religion of the same people that were killed in this horrible attack, is responsible.
This is one of those stories where everyone should support one another in mutual hate and disgust for what has happened here.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I don't see how you can say this has NOTHING to do with religion. I mean its the exact same thing as the protestant vs. catholic violence in northern Ireland. When people talk about the IRA as a terrorist group they are not including all catholics or Christians.

The stated goals of ISIS, al-queda, the taliban ect is to overthrow the elected government and replace it with their interpretation of Islam. Doesn't matter what the people they are killing identify as, they have their own standards for what it means to be "Muslim" just like any splinter christian group has its own rules and interpretation of the bible.

 

[xbhaskarx]

No, but I'm saying we can investigate the reasons to why people are led to a certain interpretation and others aren't etc. Anyway as said above, the reason they did this attack was more complicated than simply religion.

You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia

 

[crazy monkey]

wait a minute, people think this was islamic? really people WTF. Stop.

 

[Prine]

How anyone can blame this on religion is absurd, Muslims were killed for political gain not religious motivation. Talib soldiers using god to empower them is from them having nothing else to hold on to, not because its what Islam asked of them.

The victims families will be holding on to Islam more than ever to get through this horrific tragedy, it will not be Islam that they'll be preparing to go to war against, its the non islamic cult called Taliban.

I don't see how you can say this has NOTHING to do with religion. I mean its the exact same thing as the protestant vs. catholic violence in northern Ireland. When people talk about the IRA as a terrorist group they are not including all catholics or Christians.

The stated goals of ISIS, al-queda, the taliban ect is to overthrow the elected government and replace it with their interpretation of Islam. Doesn't matter what the people they are killing identify as, they have their own standards for what it means to be "Muslim" just like any splinter christian group has its own rules and interpretation of the bible.

Sounds like power and control humans have been involved with regardless of religion.

 

[Floridian]

Awful. Just heard this on the news.

 

[Maninthemirror]

You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia

This is a more explanatory article

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-a...-arabia-exported-main-source-global-terrorism

 

[Betty]

How anyone can blame this on religion is absurd, Muslims were killed for political gain not religious motivation.

The Taliban's ideology, their mantra's, their laws, their mindset, their goals, all stem from their interpretation of Islam, Shariah and Jihadism. Of course politics play a part, but at the root of all their decisions is a strict religious belief. It is those same beliefs that can drive them to kill themselves in the knowledge they'll enter paradise, such as they did during this attack.

To ignore the fact that religion played a fundamental part in these groups design is ignorant and simply false.

 

[TrojanBlade]

As a Pakistani my heart is broken, sad and angry all at the same time. This is horrible beyond anything done by taliban in any other country. These guys are below animals. Western countries cry about they are being targeted by all these organizations but the muslim world has lost more lives on the hands of these a-holes than any other country in the west. This is a global problem and needs to be solved together.

 

[Maninthemirror]

The Taliban's ideology, their mantra's, their laws, their mindset, their goals, all stem from their interpretation of Islam, Shariah and Jihadism. Of course politics play a part, but at the root of all their decisions is a strict religious belief. It is those same beliefs that can drive them to kill themselves in the knowledge they'll enter paradise, such as they did during this attack.

To ignore the fact that religion played a fundamental part in these groups design is ignorant and simply false.

The children were more adherent religiously than the Taliban attackers

 

[crazy monkey]

The Taliban's ideology, their mantra's, their laws, their mindset, their goals, all stem from their interpretation of Islam, Shariah and Jihadism. Of course politics play a part, but at the root of all their decisions is a strict religious belief. It is those same beliefs that can drive them to kill themselves in the knowledge they'll enter paradise, such as they did during this attack.

To ignore the fact that religion played a fundamental part in these groups design is ignorant and simply false.

what interpretation allowed killing these children. please let me know.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

The children were more adherent religiously than the Taliban attackers

to be fair, in mind of the taliban attackers, they were not.

 

[Maninthemirror]

to be fair, in mind of the taliban attackers, they were not.

Who cares what they think, they don't deserve validity and only attacking them is valid unless they surrender at which point we arrest them then hang them after a short trial

 

[Betty]

what interpretation allowed killing these children. please let me know.

I don't know, I haven't read the Quran.

But the Taliban base their entire ideals on religion.

Say they have a warped interpretation of Islam, say they're non-muslim, say whatever the fuck you damn well please.

Just stop trying to convince people that these groups are not religiously motivated or inspired or driven because it's completely untrue.

The children were more adherent religiously than the Taliban attackers

As are most of the innocent Muslims these terrorists kill I'd imagine, that doesn't mean the terrorists don't act according to how they interpret religion themselves, it simply means they are able to kill fellow Muslims because they believe them to be enemies.

 

[SniperHunter]

No father should watch their son die. This father crying over the body of his son

image from the school days before the attack

The Principle of the school who was burnt alive

Parents are not looking at grades but the names of the victims to see if their child is on there

horrible

RIP

 

[RustyNails]

The Taliban's ideology, their mantra's, their laws, their mindset, their goals, all stem from their interpretation of Islam, Shariah and Jihadism. Of course politics play a part, but at the root of all their decisions is a strict religious belief. It is those same beliefs that can drive them to kill themselves in the knowledge they'll enter paradise, such as they did during this attack.

To ignore the fact that religion played a fundamental part in these groups design is ignorant and simply false.

What about the ideology of the parents that send their kids to school knowing the dangers of Taliban? Taliban are just warlords that use whatever tool they have at their disposal to control population. Under the pretense of Islam, they have whipped the locales into submission through violence and terror. More Muslims have died under Taliban than non Muslims. Their ideology is power and control, and dat sweet, sweet Opium trade.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I don't know, I haven't read the Quran.

But the Taliban base their entire ideals on religion.

Say they have a warped interpretation of Islam, say they're non-muslim, say whatever the fuck you damn well please.

Just stop trying to convince people that these groups are not religiously motivated or inspired or driven because it's completely untrue.

Who cares what the Taliban view is, you should only care what the children thought and their parents think , you remove the Taliban view by removing them and the children's views will prosper like their parents

 

[RiZ III]

Checked facebook. A young cousin of mine lost a friend. So depressing.

 

[crazy monkey]

I don't know, I haven't read the Quran.

But the Taliban base their entire ideals on religion.

Say they have a warped interpretation of Islam, say they're non-muslim, say whatever the fuck you damn well please.

Just stop trying to convince people that these groups are not religiously motivated or inspired or driven because it's completely untrue.



As are most of the innocent Muslims these terrorists kill I'd imagine, that doesn't mean the terrorists don't act according to how they interpret religion themselves, it simply means they are able to kill fellow Muslims because they believe them to be enemies.

power, control and money is at the heart of the problem nothing else. If you are that interested in topic then go pick up a copy and start reading it or read online.

 

[Stereogatari]

But the Taliban base their entire ideals on religion.

Nope, they have a heavy dose of Pashtunwali too.

 

[Scoot McNairy]

The people who are saying 'don't talk about religion' in this thread have an agenda, and a motive. It's not that they just want to focus on the tragedy of the situation, it's that they don't want you to discuss the cause.

When people tell you to be quiet and to stop asking questions, that's when you know you've touched on something.

 

[Betty]

What about the ideology of the parents that send their kids to school knowing the dangers of Taliban? Taliban are just warlords that use whatever tool they have at their disposal to control population. Under the pretense of Islam, they have whipped the locales into submission through violence and terror. More Muslims have died under Taliban than non Muslims. Their ideology is power and control, and dat sweet, sweet Opium trade.

I get the fact you all feel the need to defend your religion, and by all means, if you want to say they're simply using Islam and don't actually believe in it or don't actually follow it properly then please do.

It doesn't stop the fact they they are still using religion as a tool.

Who cares what the Taliban view is, you should only care what the children thought and their parents think , you remove the Taliban view by removing them and the children's views will prosper like their parents

Yes, I look forward to they day they are 'removed'. That doesn't discount the fact they interpret and utilize religion for their own ends.

 

[Dominican Power]

Surely the country can't take much of this?

 

[Scoot McNairy]

power, control and money is at the heart of the problem nothing else.

It's the words 'nothing else' which indicate just how much this person wants to stop the conversation from being had.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I get the fact you all feel the need to defend your religion, and by all means, if you want to say they're simply using Islam and don't actually believe in it or don't actually follow it properly then please do.

It doesn't stop the fact they they are still using religion as a tool.



Yes, I look forward to they day they are 'removed'. That doesn't discount the fact they interpret and utilize religion for their own ends.

So what if they interpret it in their way, they are evil , the only validity of any weight should be those children and their parents. No one should give any validity to what the Taliban think

 

[Betty]

So what if they interpret it in their way, they are evil , the only validity of any weight should be those children and their parents

I'm not saying how they interpret it is right, I'm not saying they are correct in their use of religion, all I'm saying is that they utilize it.

Nope, they have a heavy dose of Pashtunwali too.

Yes, too, too, not exclusively that single thing, but that and the other things as well, including Jihadism, Sharia and Islam.

power, control and money is at the heart of the problem nothing else. If you are that interested in topic then go pick up a copy and start reading it or read online.

Even if you want to say that they are just using religion for their own ends you cannot, cannot, cannot deny that they are utilizing it in their campaigns, even if it's just to attract the not so bright, or to make suicide attackers willing to die, even if their version of Islam is a twisted abomination it's still something that they utilize.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I'm not saying how they interpret it is right, I'm not saying they are correct in their use of religion, all I'm saying is that they utilize it.



Yes, too, too, not exclusively that single thing, but that and the other things as well.



Even if you want to say that they are just using religion for their own ends you cannot, cannot, cannot deny that they are utilizing it in their campaigns, even if it's just to attract the not so bright, or to make suicide attackers willing to die, even if their version of Islam is a twisted abomination it's still something that they utilize.

Yes that's right they are just abusing the faith they are part of and its people

 

[Raptor]

What the fuck more the world needs for to intervene?

Put this people under submission for fucks sakes man, whatever it takes.

......children

I wish I was Superman to melt them all away.

 

[Betty]

Yes that's right they are just abusing the faith they are part of and its people

Precisely! That's what I'm saying. To deny that they don't is insane.

 

[Lord Morairty007]

2014 has been a shitty year for the world in current events.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Precisely! That's what I'm saying.

While those who don't abuse the religion and adhere to it peacefully and in much larger numbers are dying for being peaceful muslims in the vast majority

 

[Betty]

While those who don't abuse the religion and adhere to it peacefully and in much larger numbers are dying for being peaceful muslims in the vast majority

Abso-fucking-lutely. That's the real injustice here. All I was saying is that those who deny that the Taliban adhere to a warped incorrect version of Islam were wrong.

 

[Chococat]

Who cares what the Taliban view is,

People are trying to understand the motives of the Taliban, not to sympathize or condone their actions, but to figure out how to reason with or combat them. Pointing out that one of facet of their motivation/recruitment tools stems from their radicalized interpretation of Islam is not condemning the millions of peaceful followers of Islam.

People who are defending peaceful Islams instead of attacking the followers of the twisted versions are actual helping these guy. These guys practice a horrible form of Islam, just like people practice horrible forms of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Any religion/philosophy can be used for good AND evil.

Hell your own belief their Muslim logic and non-Muslim logic is quite horrifying. You exhibit the same us vs. them mentality the extremist exploit.

 

[RustyNails]

People are trying to understand the motives of the Taliban, not to sympathize or condone their actions, but to figure out how to reason with or combat them. Pointing out that one of facet of their motivation/recruitment tools stems from their radicalized interpretation of Islam is not condemning the millions of peaceful followers of Islam.

People who are defending peaceful Islams instead of attacking the followers of the twisted versions are actual helping these guy. These guys practice a horrible form of Islam, just like people practice horrible forms of Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc. Any religion/philosophy can be used for good AND evil.

Hell your own belief their Muslim logic and non-Muslim logic is quite horrifying. You exhibit the same us vs. them mentality the extremist exploit.

Yes, they practice Islam. They pray the Salah in the morning and shoot children in the evening. How do you deal with such people? Taliban cannot be reasoned with. They are fascists. We don't need any more reasons to counter them. We just need more Malalas. Out of this tragedy, if 100 more Malalas rise up, that will do more damage to them than 100 drone strikes. They are twisted psychopaths that fear educated Muslims and especially educated Muslim girls. They are smart enough to understand that in order to change a society for the better, you need female education. They don't want a better society. They do not care at all if there are potholes on the road or if the courts do not have qualified judges. They only care about exercising power to the fullest, policing the streets, torturing prisoners and suppressing dissent.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

So what if they interpret it in their way, they are evil , the only validity of any weight should be those children and their parents. No one should give any validity to what the Taliban think

if you don't understand how your enemy thinks and why they think the way they do you won't ever defeat them.