• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

At least 148 including 132 children dead as Taliban storm Pakistan school

Status
Not open for further replies.

Chococat

Member
Yes, they practice Islam. They pray the Salah in the morning and shoot children in the evening. How do you deal with such people? Taliban cannot be reasoned with. They are fascists. We don't need any more reasons to counter them. We just need more Malalas. Out of this tragedy, if 100 more Malalas rise up, that will do more damage to them than 100 drone strikes. They are twisted psychopaths that fear educated Muslims and especially educated Muslim girls. They are smart enough to understand that in order to change a society for the better, you need female education. They don't want a better society. They do not care at all if there are potholes on the road or if the courts do not have qualified judges. They only care about exercising power to the fullest, policing the streets, torturing prisoners and suppressing dissent.

I whole heartily agree with your assessment. I would love to only follow the non-violent path of dealing with them (education, address poverty, strengthen government to legitimize tribal power). But we all know that isn't going to happen- military intervention either local or part of a coalition is required. For that we need to understand them to obtain intelligence in an effort to reduce innocent causalities.

The emotion pleas to bomb them back into the stone-age is a good stress relief, but is a childish strategy. They need their finances cut off, they need to be imprisoned or killed (when necessary). Their methods of recruitment need to stopped. Good soldiers and police need be put in place (not one's who are going to accept bribes or run at the slightest hint of danger). People need make these guys outcasts while at the same time offer redemption to those want to get out in exchange for information.
 

Yamauchi

Banned
Pakistan seems like it's always on the precipice. Whether or not it will fall off, I do not know.

Terrible to hear about the death of these children. But after hearing of the crimes of ISIS, the actions of Islamists no longer surprise me. By dehumanizing their enemies, all extreme Islamist groups end up committing unspeakable acts, driven by the same kind of hate that has recurred too often these past one hundred years and has led to humanity's worst horrors.
 
I whole heartily agree with your assessment. I would love to only follow the non-violent path of dealing with them (education, address poverty, strengthen government to legitimize tribal power). But we all know that isn't going to happen- military intervention either local or part of a coalition is required. For that we need to understand them to obtain intelligence in an effort to reduce innocent causalities.

The emotion pleas to bomb them back into the stone-age is a good stress relief, but is a childish strategy. They need their finances cut off, they need to be imprisoned or killed (when necessary). Their methods of recruitment need to stopped. Good soldiers and police need be put in place (not one's who are going to accept bribes or run at the slightest hint of danger). People need make these guys outcasts while at the same time offer redemption to those want to get out in exchange for information.
What I and others have saying for months, if not years, is that the key to solving the Taliban problem lies with ISI, the secretive intelligence agency of Pakistani government. ISI's modus operandi is to protect the homeland by hook or by crook. They are very similar to Russian KGB. For decades, ISI have tolerated Taliban to play in their backyard, as the prevailing coldwar mentality was that India has been Pakistan's archnemesis (they did went to war 3 times since independence, after all) and this mentality has been extremely difficult to overcome. ISI has allowed this animosity to forment for a long time, as it was part of their strategy to fight Indian troops with the buffer paramilitary (Taliban) on the mountains of Kashmir LOC. ISI allowed funneling of money to Taliban and sheltered them, including possibly the knowledge of Osama Bin Laden hiding in Abbotabad. Because if a war breaks out, all Pakistan needs to do is allow Taliban to go and die like lemmings on the battlefield (again, cold-war mentality). They were the buffer. But ISI has created a Frankenstein that has proven to be beyond anyone's control. They begrudgingly cooperated with the Army to clear out NWFP that became a hornet's nest after given autonomy under Zardari (previous PM). Something tells me that today though, the ISI phones are lighting up tonight and some officers are literally packing their bags. This brazen attack likely happened without the knowledge of ISI. ISI's goal of protecting the homeland has been dropped on it's ass today. Heads will roll (hopefully figuratively). I'm confident that today's attack will be the one that breaks the camel's back. But ISI is also known to be corrupt, so we don't know how many officers are on Taliban payroll. But something will change. I'm hopeful.

Focus on ISI's efforts to root out the destructive elements alongside focus in education and targeting of Talibani criminals is the trifecta that can deal the death blow to them. But all the legs must stand. If one falls, all will fall.
 

Lamel

Banned
"'God is great,'" the Taliban militants shouted as they roared through the hallways of a school in Peshawar, Pakistan.

...

Pakistan has seen plenty of violence, much of it involving militants based in provinces such as South Waziristan, North Waziristan and the Khyber Agency -- all restive regions in northwest Pakistan near Peshawar along its border with Afghanistan.

It is the home base the TTP, an organization that has sought to force its conservative version of Islam in Pakistan. The group has battled Pakistani troops and, on a number of occasions, attacked civilians as well.


.

Every muslim out there says "God is great" like 30 times a day in casual conversation.
 

Azih

Member
The Taliban have pretty much nothing to do with Kashmir. Pashtun are completely different from Kashmiris.
 

Azih

Member
The people who are saying 'don't talk about religion' in this thread have an agenda, and a motive. It's not that they just want to focus on the tragedy of the situation, it's that they don't want you to discuss the cause.
You don't know me. You are not a mind reader. So kindly stop pretending either of these things.
 

kaizoku

I'm not as deluded as I make myself out to be
The media can probably be to blame for the dangerous and simplistic link to religion.

Of course religion is the driving factor, but only in the sense that it's a tool used by those in power to manipulate people. As has happened through the ages, religion is wielded to carry out sacrifices, find strength and justice during battle or a sense of purpose and belonging to those who are lost. It's always been the ultimate propaganda tool and you can find parallels in sport or fan groups/idol worship of any kind.

So yeah the media should probably focus less on the religious aspect and more on the motives of those with influence and how they're manipulative and controlling.

But that's hard when the people committing the atrocities are screaming about religion.
 
Isn't he the guy that Pakistan-GAF were raving about during the elections? What did he say?

Imran Khan was in the camp of "We need to talk to Taliban more", him being a Pashtun and all. So much so the media started calling him Taliban Khan. He was of the opinion that using force is not the right method of dealing with Taliban problem.
 
What about the ideology of the parents that send their kids to school knowing the dangers of Taliban? Taliban are just warlords that use whatever tool they have at their disposal to control population. Under the pretense of Islam, they have whipped the locales into submission through violence and terror. More Muslims have died under Taliban than non Muslims. Their ideology is power and control, and dat sweet, sweet Opium trade.

sorry, but I see this come up a lot and I think it's a strawman argument. More muslims have died under the Taliban because pakistan is 97% Muslims. If they kill 100 people, odds are the majority of the people they kill will be Muslims.

Now, if Pakistan is like 50% Muslims, and 50% Christians, then this might stand, but it's just a crime of opportunity.

If the Taliban exists in France and this happens, most likely then not, they will be killing more non-Muslims than Muslims.

You can see examples of this down in Kenya where the Muslim extremists down there are singling out non-muslims to be killed
 
It's the words 'nothing else' which indicate just how much this person wants to stop the conversation from being had.

what? What do you want to talk about. Literally thousand of threads plus one whole dedicated Islam thread is there for you to talk all you want. If you can't find the thread let me know I can direct you to it. People who have been around here for long time have had this discussion million times and it comes up every other day. What do you want to add to it just say it. Don't just comment and bail.

Even if you want to say that they are just using religion for their own ends you cannot, cannot, cannot deny that they are utilizing it in their campaigns, even if it's just to attract the not so bright, or to make suicide attackers willing to die, even if their version of Islam is a twisted abomination it's still something that they utilize.

Please tell me in THIS case what interpretation they used and what was their goal that was islamic?
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
power, control and money is at the heart of the problem nothing else. If you are that interested in topic then go pick up a copy and start reading it or read online.
Sorry but that's just denial and wilful ignorance. The Taliban are religiously motivated. Betty is correct. That doesn't mean their religious motivations are valid, no one is saying that whatsoever. But much like a woman who drowns her baby because she heard voices and thinks God commanded her to would also be religiously motivated, even if it's an incorrect interpretation of Christianity, so are the Taliban religiously motivated. Of course politics and power and money are factors as well. But to deny that religion is a factor is wilful ignorance and counter-productive, much like denying politics would be a factor.
 
Sorry but that's just denial and wilful ignorance. The Taliban are religiously motivated. Betty is correct. That doesn't mean their religious motivations are valid, no one is saying that whatsoever. But much like a woman who drowns her baby because she heard voices and thinks God commanded her to would also be religiously motivated, even if it's an incorrect interpretation of Christianity, so are the Taliban religiously motivated. Of course politics and power and money are factors as well. But to deny that religion is a factor is wilful ignorance and counter-productive, much like denying politics would be a factor.

holy man. I keep saying in this case. Was there a Islamic reason why they did this or was it a political reason? We are not talking about the whole history here.

I am out. I guess you guys will be more then happy if some one says They did this because quran and god told them to kill kids. kill the kids it shall make every one happy and you go to heaven. fucking hell. there is a reason why i do not participate in any of this thread. I am too dumb and don't have logic. Way too dumb. Does not under stand the religion and situation at all. There are better individual here who will explain much better. Nothing else was bad choice of word , religion is really involved in the decision making by Taliban in this case.
 
Images of some of the children that were martyred in this attack. Most of these are just little kids of age 13-15 :(

1102579439-1.jpg

A total of 132 childrens were killed in this attack.

No sane person or religion can allow these type of attacks on children. Only the most twisted minds can do this. The debate about religion in this thread is pointless.
 

orochi91

Member
Imran Khan was in the camp of "We need to talk to Taliban more", him being a Pashtun and all. So much so the media started calling him Taliban Khan. He was of the opinion that using force is not the right method of dealing with Taliban problem.

And he's correct.

The Taliban take that "eye for an eye" revenge shit seriously.

Non-violent negotiations should be the main focus for the Pakistani government.

Though I can't help but feel the government doesn't really give a shit about the other ethnicities in Pakistan other than the Punjabis.
 
Pakistan mourns after Taliban Peshawar school massacre

It is a very eerie atmosphere. These are premises that should be alive at a time of day like this to the sound of hundreds of children who studied here and began school as normal yesterday. But it is desolate today.

The army has been working through the night to clear the premises of explosives.

I am standing now at the bottom of the white stone steps that lead up to the auditorium. There are blood stains running right down the steps and towards the auditorium itself.

There is a child's shoe on one of the steps. The auditorium, where children were taking exams, was one of the places within the school grounds that the militants first targeted.

As I peer in now, the chairs that the children were sitting on are upturned, the place has been turned upside down and again I can see the blood stains on the floor right around me.

Mohammad Hilal, a student in the 10th grade, was shot three times in his arm and legs when the gunmen stormed the school auditorium.

"I think I passed out for a while. I thought I was dreaming. I wanted to move but felt paralysed. Then I came to and realised that actually two other boys had fallen on me. Both of them were dead," he told the BBC.

Zulfiqar Ahmad, 45, the head of the mathematics department who was shot four times during the attack told the BBC he did not believe any of the 18 students in his class had survived.

This is so heartbreaking. I have seen the images inside from the school and it looks like they massacred as much they could.
 

adamsapple

Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Yeah .. first thing this morning is people posting large images of the dead, bloodied corpses of the kids on their Facebook feeds :(

Come on people.... that's not helping, that's just disrespecting. Be respectful to the parents who lost their reasons to live essentially.
 
A brief prayer was held at my college today. From the morning it's been sorrowful. Children, adults, everyone is in mourning.

And he's correct.

The Taliban take that "eye for an eye" revenge shit seriously.

Non-violent negotiations should be the main focus for the Pakistani government.

Though I can't help but feel the government doesn't really give a shit about the other ethnicities in Pakistan other than the Punjabis.

Well there were negotiations in place during the early year around March, but hey guess what, they continued to attack and dissed the whole affair. The Jinnah International Airport attack in Karachi was the last straw and ultimately lead to an operation offensive in the North Waziristan.
 
And he's correct.

The Taliban take that "eye for an eye" revenge shit seriously.

Non-violent negotiations should be the main focus for the Pakistani government.

Though I can't help but feel the government doesn't really give a shit about the other ethnicities in Pakistan other than the Punjabis.

How can you have non-violent negotiations with an occupying secessionist army in your country?

What would peace terms even look like? Giving them their own country?
 

rambis

Banned
Sorry but that's just denial and wilful ignorance. The Taliban are religiously motivated. Betty is correct. That doesn't mean their religious motivations are valid, no one is saying that whatsoever. But much like a woman who drowns her baby because she heard voices and thinks God commanded her to would also be religiously motivated, even if it's an incorrect interpretation of Christianity, so are the Taliban religiously motivated. Of course politics and power and money are factors as well. But to deny that religion is a factor is wilful ignorance and counter-productive, much like denying politics would be a factor.
Because the Taliban are religiously motivated doesn't mean that every action they do is in the name of religion. We have the violent precedent of this political conflict and this obviously indiscriminate killing of Pakistani children in retaliation of a campaign against them, what exactly is your argument of religion about?
 

Enco

Member
One of the most horrendous things that has happened in recent times.

Don't even know what to say.

Just.. wow.
 
sorry, but I see this come up a lot and I think it's a strawman argument. More muslims have died under the Taliban because pakistan is 97% Muslims. If they kill 100 people, odds are the majority of the people they kill will be Muslims.

Now, if Pakistan is like 50% Muslims, and 50% Christians, then this might stand, but it's just a crime of opportunity.

If the Taliban exists in France and this happens, most likely then not, they will be killing more non-Muslims than Muslims.

You can see examples of this down in Kenya where the Muslim extremists down there are singling out non-muslims to be killed

That is not the point of the more muslims killed argument. The point is the media and islam critics have a continuous argument that the Taliban and the like are out to hurt non muslims as its in their text to kill a non muslim where they stand yet the numbers show that the taliban actually don't care if their opponent is a muslim or a non muslim, they only want their brand of power regardless if the majority don't and they will kill everyone who stands in their way to achieve it including muslims. That looks like power hunger more than anything
 
sorry, but I see this come up a lot and I think it's a strawman argument. More muslims have died under the Taliban because pakistan is 97% Muslims. If they kill 100 people, odds are the majority of the people they kill will be Muslims.

Now, if Pakistan is like 50% Muslims, and 50% Christians, then this might stand, but it's just a crime of opportunity.

If the Taliban exists in France and this happens, most likely then not, they will be killing more non-Muslims than Muslims.

You can see examples of this down in Kenya where the Muslim extremists down there are singling out non-muslims to be killed
By your very own logic, since Taliban could not find non Muslims to kill in Pakistan, they shouldnt kill Muslims. Because they are only discriminatory towards non Muslims. And Im pretty sure Boko Haram is just as ridiculous as Taliban and has been killing both Muslims and non Muslims. They have attacked schools as well as mosques and churches.
 
http://newsweekpakistan.com/she-was-my-hero/

“They [terrorists] entered our classroom as we were sitting with our teacher,” said Irfanullah, who was shot in the chest and is currently recovering in hospital. “She seemed to understand what was going on before we did because she immediately stood up and prevented the terrorists from targeting us,” he added.

According to a tearful Irfanullah, Ahmed told the terrorists that she would not allow them to shoot her students. “She was so brave,” he said. “Her last words to the terrorists were: ‘You must kill me first because I will not see my students’ bodies lying in front of me,’” he added.

Irfanullah says the Taliban didn’t seem to care about anything she said and immediately threw something on her body. “The next thing we knew, she was on fire,” he said. “Even while burning, she shouted at us to run away and find refuge.”

The teenager says he still feels guilty for abandoning his teacher, despite knowing he could have done nothing. “I feel so selfish for running away instead of trying to find a way to save her,” he said. “She is my hero … she was like a superwoman,” said Irfanullah. “Who will teach us now?”
 

Azih

Member
The Fucking Afghani Taliban rushed to condemn the attack as soon as news of it came out. You can't even generalize approval of this attack to the God Damn TALIBAN Let alone their entire faith. The posters here rushing into absurdly simplistic SEE RELIGION ISLAMLOL attacks are making incredibly incredibly idiotic arguments.
 
The Fucking Afghani Taliban rushed to condemn the attack as soon as news of it came out. You can't even generalize approval of this attack to the God Damn TALIBAN Let alone their entire faith. The posters here rushing into absurdly simplistic SEE RELIGION ISLAMLOL attacks are making incredibly incredibly idiotic arguments.
Afgan Taliban are just as evil as TTP. Those fellas executed mine workers just last week. I understand blowing up a school is a new low in evil, but its the sincerest case of pot calling kettle black.
 
ISLAMABAD — Pakistan's prime minister lifted a moratorium on the death penalty on Wednesday, a day after Taliban gunmen attacked a school, killing more 140 children and teachers. The bloodshed has shocked the nation and put pressure on the government to do more to tackle the Pakistani Taliban insurgency.

"It was decided that this moratorium should be lifted. The prime minister approved," said government spokesman Mohiuddin Wan, referring to Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's approval of the decision by a ministerial committee. "Black warrants will be issued within a day or two," he said, referring to execution orders. He did not give any details about who might be executed under such orders. A moratorium on the death penalty was imposed in 2008 and only one execution has taken place since then.

There are believed to be more than 8,000 prisoners on death row in Pakistan, about 10 percent convicted of offenses labeled "terrorism," according to legal-aid group Justice Project Pakistan. "Terrorism" has a very broad definition under Pakistani law. About 17,000 cases of "terrorism" are pending in special courts.

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pa...kistan-lifts-moratorium-death-penalty-n269986

Looks like some Taliban in Pakistan custody might be executed soon in response.
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
holy man. I keep saying in this case. Was there a Islamic reason why they did this or was it a political reason? We are not talking about the whole history here.

I am out. I guess you guys will be more then happy if some one says They did this because quran and god told them to kill kids. kill the kids it shall make every one happy and you go to heaven. fucking hell. there is a reason why i do not participate in any of this thread. I am too dumb and don't have logic. Way too dumb. Does not under stand the religion and situation at all. There are better individual here who will explain much better. Nothing else was bad choice of word , religion is really involved in the decision making by Taliban in this case.
I'm honestly confused at what you're saying here. I did not call you dumb, there's no need to resort to passive-aggressive whining, but I suspect there's a language barrier going on. Oh well.

Because the Taliban are religiously motivated doesn't mean that every action they do is in the name of religion. We have the violent precedent of this political conflict and this obviously indiscriminate killing of Pakistani children in retaliation of a campaign against them, what exactly is your argument of religion about?
I wasn't talking necessarily about this specific event. The discussion was about the Taliban's motivations in general. The post I quoted said "the heart of the problem", which means something deeper than an isolated event, and that is what I was addressing. But perhaps crazy monkey didn't mean it like that, again I think there's a language barrier going on, in which case I just misunderstood and I apologize.

Goddamn that is heartbreaking. Though he's surely traumatized, I still hope that child will be inspired by the teacher's courage.
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Pakistan Must Discard its 'Good Taliban, Bad Taliban' Narrative
Beena Sarwar
Pakistani journalist, artist and documentary filmmaker

My article in The Huffington Post. The confusion in Pakistan has grown with the security forces perpetuating the narrative of "good Taliban" and "bad Taliban." The "good Taliban" were those who didn't attack Pakistan. They were "non-state actors" and "strategic assets" useful to further Pakistan's "strategic depth" in Afghanistan or attack targets in "enemy" India. Pakistan must realise who the real enemy is and move decisively to counter it.
 

Yagharek

Member
Images of some of the children that were martyred in this attack. Most of these are just little kids of age 13-15 :(



A total of 132 childrens were killed in this attack.

No sane person or religion can allow these type of attacks on children. Only the most twisted minds can do this. The debate about religion in this thread is pointless.

I strongly dislike the apologist stance. I understand why people say "we can't blame religion" because there have been some disgusting revenge attacks and maligning of people of certain religions due to misplaced fear.

But what you are saying here is wrong.

Instead of demonising elements of a religion, you instead choose a soft target and demonise people with mental illness.

99.999% of muslims are peaceful and we shouldn't stigmatise them because of the actions of a few. Just the same as how 99.999% of Roman Catholics aren't pedophiles.

And similarly, 99.999% of people with mental illness are not violent and they are not to be feared.

But instead, people like to say that when a religiously motivated attack occurs, that religion has nothing to do with it and it must be because the criminals were insane. That is stigmatising mental illness.

The fact is, there is a small but serious problem in many religions which enables certain behaviour to fester. The pedophile priests in Catholicism didn't do it because they were insane. They did it because elements of the faith (celibacy) and a hierarchical organisational structure contributed to their tendency to do such things. The same is true of certain elements of Islam. In some conditions, combined with education exposure (or lack of) and elements of tribal rivalry and in a climate of militarism, both external and internal, there exists the possibility for some people to become radicalised and commit acts of violence in the name of their religion.

Religion isn't the only factor; but it is a significant one. Denying any and all responsibility does nothing to help address the root issues. Palming off responsibility on "mental illness" does more harm than good and demonises mental illness as well.
 
I strongly dislike the apologist stance. I understand why people say "we can't blame religion" because there have been some disgusting revenge attacks and maligning of people of certain religions due to misplaced fear.

But what you are saying here is wrong.

Instead of demonising elements of a religion, you instead choose a soft target and demonise people with mental illness.

99.999% of muslims are peaceful and we shouldn't stigmatise them because of the actions of a few. Just the same as how 99.999% of Roman Catholics aren't pedophiles.

And similarly, 99.999% of people with mental illness are not violent and they are not to be feared.

But instead, people like to say that when a religiously motivated attack occurs, that religion has nothing to do with it and it must be because the criminals were insane. That is stigmatising mental illness.

The fact is, there is a small but serious problem in many religions which enables certain behaviour to fester. The pedophile priests in Catholicism didn't do it because they were insane. They did it because elements of the faith (celibacy) and a hierarchical organisational structure contributed to their tendency to do such things. The same is true of certain elements of Islam. In some conditions, combined with education exposure (or lack of) and elements of tribal rivalry and in a climate of militarism, both external and internal, there exists the possibility for some people to become radicalised and commit acts of violence in the name of their religion.

Religion isn't the only factor; but it is a significant one. Denying any and all responsibility does nothing to help address the root issues. Palming off responsibility on "mental illness" does more harm than good and demonises mental illness as well.

Yes the Taliban are abusing the faith of the people like the children and their Parents who are applying their faith.
 
The Fucking Afghani Taliban rushed to condemn the attack as soon as news of it came out. You can't even generalize approval of this attack to the God Damn TALIBAN Let alone their entire faith. The posters here rushing into absurdly simplistic SEE RELIGION ISLAMLOL attacks are making incredibly incredibly idiotic arguments.

So if a Lutheran condemns a Baptist for attacking an abortion clinic, that means religion had nothing to do with the attack on the abortion clinic?


No, it doesn't work that way.
 
So if a Lutheran condemns a Baptist for attacking an abortion clinic, that means religion had nothing to do with the attack on the abortion clinic?


No, it doesn't work that way.

This only applies if you put the ideology of Taliban on the same level of sanity as baptist or Lutheran which is to say you think their view of faith on terms of extreme is the same as those children
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom