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AusGAF 10 - Node Country for Old Men
- Thread starter Kritz
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ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Ehh
Side content is very underwhelming and the power sets are not varied that much.
ClivePwned
Member
Boiled down to basics
Group A: "Games suck and are sexist, change them."
Group B: "No, Games are fine the way they are, you shut your whore mouth."
At that point, people forget they're talking about games and it's all about being assholes.
A jilted ex boyfriend of indie dev Zoe Quinn leaked a bunch of personal information about her to 4 Chan. Included in this was the accusation that she slept with a writer for positive reviews of her game. This turns out to be bullshit, but catalysts don't need truth.
So a bunch of folk on 4 Chan decide that the positive reviews of her game, and other non game games like Gone Home must be a conspiracy, like so.
It should be noted at this point that Gone Home is a game "about girls" (I don't want to spoil it, it's actually pretty good.)
Gamergate ostensibly gets started under the guise of caring about media transparency, popularised by noted conservative Adam Baldwin. It's most notable use though was the harassment of women in the industry, with the typical death and rape threats, causing multiple female writers to "quit". One of the main targets of threats was Anita Sarkeesian, known for her feminist critiques of games.
So a movement purported to be about transparency in media, claiming to have problems with developers getting too close to writers, attacks someone doing exactly what they say people aren't doing enough of. Without a hint of irony. It becomes obvious at this point that the majority of people using the hash tag are just using it to attack women because games is a boys club.
So a bunch of folk on 4 Chan decide that the positive reviews of her game, and other non game games like Gone Home must be a conspiracy, like so.
It should be noted at this point that Gone Home is a game "about girls" (I don't want to spoil it, it's actually pretty good.)
Gamergate ostensibly gets started under the guise of caring about media transparency, popularised by noted conservative Adam Baldwin. It's most notable use though was the harassment of women in the industry, with the typical death and rape threats, causing multiple female writers to "quit". One of the main targets of threats was Anita Sarkeesian, known for her feminist critiques of games.
So a movement purported to be about transparency in media, claiming to have problems with developers getting too close to writers, attacks someone doing exactly what they say people aren't doing enough of. Without a hint of irony. It becomes obvious at this point that the majority of people using the hash tag are just using it to attack women because games is a boys club.
Good point, that was a bit of an omission, especially considering it's where the hashtag name comes from. Justified or not, writing articles in this sort of tone is going to lead to a backlash: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.php
Also I didn't realise how big that image was, sorry. Will quote it.
dishwasherlove
Member
There is something inherently wrong about video game journalism. Pity that message got tied up with the rest of this bullshit instead of standing on it's own.
I don't think there is really. I mentioned this on Twitter before, but I think the problem is that we put journalism in general on a pedestal it doesn't deserve. Every kind of journalism relies on having contacts and friends in key places. I think the assumption of impartiality in journalism affects our ability to think critically.
reptilescorpio
Member
In general it really doesn't exist in the form we expect it to. The main sites peddle mainly in marketing/PR/media stuff the majority of the time compared to the style of content people are crying out for during this mess.
The whole schmozzle makes everyone look bad, bigots and the games media, due to the incredibly aggressive/dismissive tones and language being used all round. Very few have kept a level head and tried to find something constructive.
At the end of the day all I keep saying to people who seem to think games media needs to change is support those that uphold the ideals you find important. Help them become the benchmark, foster that community. Even better is if you have a ton of time free, chip in! Try and change the system from the inside, even if only in a small way. Tons of freelance games media people that operate on thousands of different little websites that cater to different needs these days.
Also Twitter can be an awful echo chamber. Like a cross between old Facebook and the worse parts of 4chan at times :/
reptilescorpio
Member
Too busy going home to be a family man 
Hope things are going well with the job VKS!
Journalism is a joke and always has been. There has never been a golden age of the golden shower of shit we call journalism. For ever actual case of 'journalism' ie an affair like water gate, which was less about journalism and more about a leak, not to mention what years 'at the top' has done to the 'journalists' involved in the stories, who have become little more then chumlys with those in power.
Journalism is, and always was, spinning shit for the rich and powerful who owned the outlets. Who have always owned the outlets, and had interests in owning the outlets that were never based on 'getting the truth out there'.
Holding gaming journalism to any regard means that journalism itself would have to be held to a regard, and that seems completely counter to its raison d'etre.
Journalism isnt there to protect us from the whims of power. Its there to protect those that own it from the whims of power, and give them a few whims themselves.
People dont want journalism, they want things they can agree with and get angry about. Preferrably in a top 10 list of some sort.
Journalism is, and always was, spinning shit for the rich and powerful who owned the outlets. Who have always owned the outlets, and had interests in owning the outlets that were never based on 'getting the truth out there'.
Holding gaming journalism to any regard means that journalism itself would have to be held to a regard, and that seems completely counter to its raison d'etre.
Journalism isnt there to protect us from the whims of power. Its there to protect those that own it from the whims of power, and give them a few whims themselves.
People dont want journalism, they want things they can agree with and get angry about. Preferrably in a top 10 list of some sort.
Yep. It's not that there aren't problems with games journalism, but they're not unique to games journalism. We see all kinds of bullshit because we're close to it, but it's no better or worse than other fields.
In most other firelds of journalism there will be at least on source of information and investigation that is pretty ethical and honest. I can't think of one in gaming. It's not that the corruption is worse in gaming, it is that it is utterly pervasive. There is no BBC/ABC/Independent news that has the resources to do investigative journalism worth a damn.
I can't help but think of Choc when I say, "Serrells?"
Thanks for the update. What a fucking clusterfuck.
What kind of twisted fuckwit thinks it's ok to email Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian and others with pictures of their own homes with death threats? I mean seriously?
In saying that though, that Gamasutra article "Gamers don't have to be your audience, gamers are over." is hysterical.
What kind of twisted fuckwit thinks it's ok to email Laci Green and Anita Sarkeesian and others with pictures of their own homes with death threats? I mean seriously?
In saying that though, that Gamasutra article "Gamers don't have to be your audience, gamers are over." is hysterical.
codswallop
Member
By comparing games journalism with "real" journalism you're comparing with the wrong field IMO. A much better comparison is car scene 'journalism', or movie business 'journalism' (a better term is probably 'reporting'). Whenever the primary purpose is as interaction between consumers and businesses, I don't think you can ever get proper impartial journalism, but ultimately it's just not that important as long as you know that.
If the ABC etc is going to fund journalists, I'd rather them cover important topics. Who gets to decide what's important? No idea, but overall they've been doing a good enough job on most fronts.
I don't see anyone other than some rich philanthropist with money to throw away being interested in funding true impartial investigative games journalism, because there's just no money in it.
reptilescorpio
Member
I get all my hard hitting games journalism here on GAF so I'm all good. It's a nice filter for the quasi-marketing bullshit.
Most of the "journalism" stuff on GAF is just aggregating news broken by the main outlets, no? In terms of games appreciation and criticism, GAF (et al) is good for that I agree. People seem to mostly have problems with review scores and such anyway, so cultivating your own trusted sources works best for that anyway since taste is so subjective.
I think Brendan Keogh's article is one of the best on this: https://overland.org.au/2014/09/game-of-moans-the-death-throes-of-the-male-gamer/
It's worth reading the whole thing, but I'll quote the relevant paragraphs to this games journalism discussion:
Internet MRAs reactionists who feel really deeply about these issues. I think Aisha Tyler said it best when she mentioned that those who were hazed in high school for being nerds are now doing the hazing. The main thing Anita's videos have done is signify a potential shift in "gaming culture" because her videos are actually pretty boring and tame Feminist 101 with video games primers.
I don't think many people care about the videos or have even watched them. Its this shift towards more female conscious game design that is encouraging reactionaries to get together and push back. If you want an example of this reactionary behaviour, many saw the removal of boob armour in Divinity: Original Sin as a feminist attack on a hallmark of "gaming culture".
Saturday morning was great for me, Mortal Kombat X release date (Goro pre-order bonus which I am cool with, was going to buy on launch anyway) as well as Binding of Isaac Rebirth release date announcement trailer (won't post on here, because it's not exactly SFW) - November 4th.
They've said it's possible they will release Destiny for PC down the track.
I have the day off to play tomorrow on PS4, can't wait!
Why do you think that's true? Why isn't it that those who used to haze people face to face now also haze people online?
FormallyMegadrive
Member
Wait what. How do you defend that?
I don't think I suggested that this doesn't occur? I don't disagree with that and I'm not too sure what you're asking. Sorry, English isn't actually my first language so expressing myself clearly isn't always easy.
That quote makes it sound like the type of person that used to get made fun of is now the person making fun of others. I think it's more likely that the type of person that used to get made fun of is still being made fun of and the type of person making fun of others is still doing so.
I think the mistake is to assume that "nerds" got made fun of for playing video games, and now that people who play video games are making fun of other people, it must be these same "nerds" doing it. What has happened is that video games are no longer a nerdy pursuit, and nor is internet use.
Basically I think of all the mean bullshit I got made fun of for in school and imagine what they would have been like on the internet. I don't want to sound ageist, so tell me if I am, but young teens with raging hormones can be mean as shit, and now they have a worldwide public voice.
Also, I would never have guessed that English wasn't your first language. You express yourself very clearly.
In all the arguments and dialogue we've engaged in, I've never not understood what you were saying....your written English is impressive if this isn't your first language.
I think he has a point though, it could very well be the case that socially awkward people are using tactics that were used against them now that their haven is under fire. We've seen this in history repeat itself time and time again. One of the most notable examples is in Liberia wherein some of the freed American slaves were returned to their ancestral home, where they subjugated the local population using the same plantation model that they had been subject to...causing an eventual civil wars between "the returned" and the natives.
Edit: Oops double!
You could be right, I'm kind of just throwing the idea out there and seeing if it sticks, but in your example the slaves were slaves against their will. In the case of "nerds" (or whatever label you prefer) the demographic is formed willingly and is defined by personality types. So I find it more likely that someone who is typically introspective would remain so, and those who would typically be the aggressor in social situations would also be more likely to be so in online situations.
I don't think there is a way to prove either view right, and demographics like this are never homogenous anyway, but I think my way involves one less leap of logic, so I prefer it for that reason.
I don't think there is a way to prove either view right, and demographics like this are never homogenous anyway, but I think my way involves one less leap of logic, so I prefer it for that reason.
ClivePwned
Member
So we're agreed. People are cunts.
Planet_JASE
Member
While I mainly agree, I think the type of person that has a proclivity for making fun of others could be split into two groups, those that have the physicality or strength of numbers to do so face-to-face and those that don't. The internet removes this shortcoming and puts everyone on equal footing, thus allowing those that don't to express themselves in this manner without the fear of physical retaliation or having to be backed by others. Also, I guess there might be a type of person that is adversely effected by seeing the results of their bullying in person i.e. the person getting upset, being sad; the internet would potentially remove this barrier.
Darren870
Member
Didn't the last Mortal Kombat get banned in Aus? or am I thinking of another game?
Case in point.
Indeed.
This whole situation strikes me as a sort of coming of age/growing pains phase for the medium. It happens to every medium sooner or later, it was inevitable that certain demographics start demanding different experiences (in this case, in its simplest form, seems to be that women want gaming experiences they can better relate to).
I shouldn't be too surprised that this process is ugly, it was incredibly ugly when it came to comic books about a decade ago...and the medium is infinitely better off because of it. I spoke to Matt Gagnon (EIC of BOOM! Comics) who said that Comics hasn't enjoyed a wider readership since the 80s.
It's happened to every other medium conceivable, from print magazines, to books, to television and movies.
This whole situation strikes me as a sort of coming of age/growing pains phase for the medium. It happens to every medium sooner or later, it was inevitable that certain demographics start demanding different experiences (in this case, in its simplest form, seems to be that women want gaming experiences they can better relate to).
I shouldn't be too surprised that this process is ugly, it was incredibly ugly when it came to comic books about a decade ago...and the medium is infinitely better off because of it. I spoke to Matt Gagnon (EIC of BOOM! Comics) who said that Comics hasn't enjoyed a wider readership since the 80s.
It's happened to every other medium conceivable, from print magazines, to books, to television and movies.
Planet_JASE
Member
i'll fucking smash ya, carnt! youse only sayin that cus I'm not there to bash ya bollocks off! i'll fucking haves ya!!!!
Yeah OK I see what you mean. I don't disagree with that example because I have no doubt that still happens because goodness if we see people on Facebook being really mean. I defriend people who are like that.
Its just in the context of gamers getting all riled up over all Anita Sarkeesian, I think Aisha Tyler is right in her assessment of the situation. I know its bad to homogeneous a group of people but I feel many people that feel so strongly about this are in their 20s or 30s. I wasn't born then but reading the attitudes towards games and roleplaying in the 80s and 90s seems to give me the impression that those who took part in these hobbies were seen as basement dwelling outlasts lacking in masculinity. So they created their own culture where they belong. When anything challenges these subcultures, the reaction is nearly always reactionary and hostile. Hostility happens with any sort of subculture (ask guitarists what they think of Ovation's plastic guitars) but geeky subcultures have some serious, serious problems them it comes to inclusion.
Like a person in Mechwarrior Online wanted the developer to implement a special match-making queue for true Battletech fans who wanted to use historical loadouts. Historical loadouts don't work since its not the tabletop game, there's no infantry and vehicles, and some historical loadouts are so lacking in heatsinks that they can't cool down on hot maps. Its a pretty harmless suggestion but its purpose is to divide people who played the tabletop game and read the related novels and those who just want to play a online game with big robots.
Re: language. I learnt English through years of forum posting and imitating forum posts. The internet can be so good sometimes because you can communicate with people around the world whenever and wherever you want.
Planet_JASE
Member
You obviously weren't around when choc was posting, then.
Initially it was banned, because it didn't fit into our classification at the time, as we didn't have an R rating. When our classification system was overhauled, it got a R rating.
Expecting the same R rating for MKX
Darren870
Member
Ahh okay, I felt like a rebel sneaking my US copy in. Looks like I wont have to worry if I jump on the nextgen band wagon!
Edit: I also find it hilarious that MK was banned compared to some of your TV shows on free view. I know its different forms of media (and as pointed out due to no rating classification), but having a show like Underbelly on in the US would never fly, yet MK was fine there.
reptilescorpio
Member
Yeah I mainly meant GAF will aggregate the best content and ignore/ridicule the worse stuff.
And yeah, Brendans stories are the same as what we have been hearing for years now. Previews are paid advertising. Would be nice if previews came with more caveats.
Reminds me of the whole Penny Arcade mess. Not all nerds of course. Just a bunch of them.
Just because you were bullied doesn't mean you don't turn into a bully at some point! /batman
I having trouble processing this as reality before my brain melts from insanity >.>
Well this just reminds me of Australia. Nation of migrants and refugees and yet you see former migrants pretty anti-refugee. Which always breaks my brain.
carn
I don't think that's changed a whole lot in some ways. At least outside videogames, or certain videogame types.
I think that assessment is pretty unfair. But then I like that idea in terms of a game mode, just as I like wargames that have both historical modes and non historical modes. Of course I played tabletop Battletech a lot as a kid.
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