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[TDLink]

We have been talking about this in the MCU community thread but I thought it was worth of its own thread.

It should be noted that this is all a rumour until confirmed by Marvel (likely not until the films are out), but the source has been correct on just about everything he chooses to leak regarding Marvel Studios for the last few years. For that reason, these are potentially huge spoilers. If you do not want to potentially know major spoilers for Avengers Age of Ultron and Ant Man turn back now.

One last time, potential spoilers from here for Avengers 2, Captain America 2, and Ant Man. This also definitely spoils Iron Man 3, for those who haven't seen it yet.

Ok, so the entire story has been assembled in an article here:

http://theculturednerd.com/2013/12/...-time-travel-an-ultron-army-and-the-mandarin/

The original source is Roger Wardell's Twitter account, which again, has been about 95% reliable in the past. When it's wrong it is typically due to script rewrites. But take that grain of salt if you wish.

For those who do not want to click over and read the article's analysis, here are the choice tweets:

Sep. 28th

There was more to The Mandarin than meets the eye… A lot of deception…

Oct. 22nd

Ultron has been around for a while as an AI but he will come out of nowhere and rule the world.

The Ant-Man film will be set in the past so the story would focus on Hank Pym and if JGL is cast he will portray Scott Lang.

Like Ben Kingsley, Aldrich Killian (Guy Pearce) will show up again in a future Marvel project.

Captain America: The Winter Soldier is going to be the biggest movie of Phase 2!

We we’re deceived by the story told in Iron Man 3. Stark was deceived as well, that’s why he told the story.

Dec. 4th

The Mandarin in the MCU is an elevated past physical being, as it sort of is a technodemon, a biological AI…

Extremis has more to it then just being like a super soldier serum. The technological part in Extremis is the brain..

The AI (Mandarin) controls the Extremis soldiers in order to try and mold one of them into the actual Mandarin…

While doing this the power of the AI (Mandarin) can become too much for some (Aldrich Killian)…

Killian’s superego really was starting to convince himself that he was the master of the mandarin persona…

While Trevor was embracing it and becoming it…

In the end The Mandarin will stay an AI, but Trevor’s mind and body will become the technodemon mandarin persona.

The one shot that Kingsley is referring to will reveal that the Mandarin is an AI.

It is also a GREAT possibility that Kingsley will show up in Captain America: The Winter Soldier…

Speaking of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, it will be revealed there that AIM is secretly working under Hydra.

Although The Mandarin is an AI he cannot control Tech. This is where Ultron comes in…

The Mandarin uses Ultron to control the Tech that he needs. Some can almost say that Ultron will be The Mandarin’s JARVIS for now…

“You don’t need a Pym to create an Ultron.” See the play on words?

Pym creates the software (Ultron). Pym’s software gets sold to hydra, etc.

While Ultron evolves and learns to control time, he aligns himself with Mandarin, and once he gains free will, he’s timeless…

and then starts to travel through time.

The Mandarin will essentially take over the world with the help of Ultron who then over throws Mandarin and creates his age.

At some point Ultron gets the time gem and Avengers 2 is sort of like a big timeloop that would keep repeating.

We find out it’s Pym who breaks that timeloop in the Ant-Man movie.

Some parts of Ant-Man will take place DURING Age of Ultron.

Ultron uses Pym’s tech and traps Pym in a timeloop BEFORE he ever creates the Ultron software.

Ultron create’s a timeloop of him getting vibranium and Stark building him his body.

Since there is a timeloop of that, he has unlimited vibranium/bodies and uses those to take over the world.

As long as those timeloops remain, the world will be his, as he can keep experiencing it.

In Ant-Man, Yellow Jacket/Pym stops him. It’s different though. It’s not the original Pym.

Since he was trapped in a time loop. This Pym was rescued by The Collector.

Yellow Jacket doesn’t know who he is, or who ultron is, because this Pym never created him.

But he ends up finding out about Thanos, and what Ultron has done and eventually…

He is able to end the timeloops that was supplying Ultron the vibranium, thus giving our heroes in Avengers 2 a chance to defeat him.

It may appear that The Vision/Stark/Avengers stopped him, but it was really Pym who gave the opportunity.

The Ant-Man movie will tell Ultron’s origin and the villains will be Whirlwind and Equinox.

So there it all is. The article also points out that it does track with some other rumours (such as some casting ones) that have been swirling. It also tracks with what we know about the Ant Man script.

What do you guys think, provided it's all true?

 

[IdreamofHIME]

They should throw some of these ideas into the TV show, might stop it being boring.

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

So the Mandarin is an AI now?

How about we just make the Mandarin the Mandarin.

 

[Trojita]

That December 4th update sounds like a clusterfuck.

 

[Blader]

I've read this three times now and still don't know what it means.

 

[Plywood]

wat

 

[Clegg]

That sounds fucking awful.

 

[EchoChamber]

Sounds like a clusterfuck

 

[Trojita]

I've read this three times now and still don't know what it means.

Either the source is full of shit or the marvel movies team has been smoking crack.

 

[Slayven]

*cough*bullshit*cough*

 

[noah111]

Really not digging the focus on Mandarin if true, but the time loop stuff sounds interesting. Ant-Man movie having parts of A2 in it? Seems unlikely and impossible.

Also, hasn't Edgar Wright already stated in the past that he doesn't know about Age of ultron and his script isn't really related?

 

[Mdot]

I've read this three times now and still don't know what it means.

Yep. Spoiler averted lol

 

[Slayven]

I once read a story where Ms Marvel has sex with a dude than gets pregnant and gives birth to the same dude. That made more sense than the OP

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Mandarin was fine as is. This sounds so stupid.

All of this sounds absurd. Marvel plays it safe. Antman is gonna be a heist comedy... we're throwing in time loops outta nowhere?

 

[fallengorn]

Retconning the Mandarin to be an AI is just about as satisfying as the Mandarin being a fictitious construct made up by Killian.

Also, why would you make Ant-Man based on the events of Avengers? By the time Ant-Man rolls out you'll know what happens in the end, with or without his intervention.

I wouldn't mind time travel (got to introduce the time gem somehow) but this sounds convoluted to high heaven.

 

[bro1]

This is some grade a bullshit.

 

[Slayven]

Retconning the Mandarin to be an AI is just about as satisfying as the Mandarin being a fictitious construct made up by Killian.

Also, why would you make Ant-Man based on the events of Avengers? By the time Ant-Man rolls out you'll know what happens in the end, with or without his intervention.

I wouldn't mind time travel (got to introduce the time gem somehow) but this sounds convoluted to high heaven.

Almost as if Bryan Singer had a hand in it.

 

[infiniteloop]

So The Mandarin is The Great Intelligence.

 

[terribletwo]

yea this sounds like a load of crap. Mandarin isn't coming back

 

[Solo]

So it's basically a pile of nonsense? Kinda like......almost all Marvel Studios movies? Alrighty.

 

[Trojita]

The way it is stated very poorly, the Mandarin what ever it is wouldn't be an AI. It's more like a sentient piece of the extremis serum. It would be like a hive mind that is looking for the best host. Which would make no sense because Pepper would be controlled as well.

 

[Gorillaz]

Honestly didn't like the whole mandarin "twist" and would actually like if it was an act but that storyline sounds.....bleh

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

sounds way too complicated to be a Summer blockbuster, more like fanboy delusions.

 

[Blader]

Aside from all the other obvious reasons this is bullshit, the whole thing revolves entirely around Ultron/Mandarin/Ant-Man. There are at least eight other characters that are supposed to factor into this story and seem to be missing here.

 

[Trojita]

and when did the fake Mandarin ever get Extremis serum injected to even be controlled by the sentient extremis lifeform?

 

[Gorillaz]

Aside from all the other obvious reasons this is bullshit, the whole thing revolves entirely around Ultron/Mandarin/Ant-Man. There are at least eight other characters that are supposed to factor into this story and seem to be missing here.

I like how Guardians for the most part is left out

 

[Mesoian]

They should throw some of these ideas into the TV show, might stop it being boring.

Seriously, especially when they're talking about retconning the twist in Iron Man 3 (the twist I happened to actually like btw). This is gonna be super convoluted and spacing it out would work in the interest of the viewers.

 

[Sojgat]

Way to make a bad idea worse.

 

[Blader]

I like how Guardians for the most part is left out

Well I really don't think they're going to factor into the movie at all anyway, tbh. Seems like they'll be kept to their corner of the universe, for the time being at least.

But like, where are the Avengers in this Avengers sequel? :lol

 

[TDLink]

Retconning the Mandarin to be an AI is just about as satisfying as the Mandarin being a fictitious construct made up by Killian.

Also, why would you make Ant-Man based on the events of Avengers? By the time Ant-Man rolls out you'll know what happens in the end, with or without his intervention.

I wouldn't mind time travel (got to introduce the time gem somehow) but this sounds convoluted to high heaven.

Ant Man is set to come out only two months after Avengers 2, so the events will be fresh in the audiences' mind. According to this rumour it will seem The Avengers defeat Ultron all on their own in A2, but once people see Ant Man it will reveal he was actually the primary reason he was defeated. So it would be a realization gained from seeing Ant Man.

We don't know a lot about Ant Man, but nothing about this rumour contradicts what we know about the script (that it takes place in two time periods, with two Ant Men). It has also been said to be a sort of heist movie, but that can still track with this too. Ant Man time warping to defeat Ultron in A2 could end up being a random and quick aside played for laughs (in addition to being a "new realization"). We don't know how it would be framed in the movie, provided this is all true.

 

[Slayven]

Well I really don't think they're going to factor into the movie at all anyway, tbh. Seems like they'll be kept to their corner of the universe, for the time being at least.

But like, where are the Avengers in this Avengers sequel? :lol

And the Hulk

 

[sn00zer]

Or y'know they could just keep the Madarin a drug upped failed Shakespearian actor, because why bother trying to write a guy in whose primary superpower is magic rings?

 

[Escape Goat]

Cool fanfic.

 

[odiin]

I may end up eating my hat here but all this sounds way too oddly specific and convoluted. Especially when we won't see the final payoff for another few years. When was the last time the exact plot to a big blockbuster, down to all its various twists and turns, was leaked this far in advance, especially one that spans multiple movies?

 

[Slayven]

Or y'know they could just keep the Madarin a drug upped failed Shakespearian actor, because why bother trying to write a guy in whose primary superpower is magic rings?

They are not magic, they are parts from the warp drive in Fin Fang Foom ships.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

and then starts to travel through time.

Please don't.

 

[TDLink]

Aside from all the other obvious reasons this is bullshit, the whole thing revolves entirely around Ultron/Mandarin/Ant-Man. There are at least eight other characters that are supposed to factor into this story and seem to be missing here.

These rumours aren't talking about the other Avengers beyond that they would save the day/defeat Ultron in Avengers: Age of Ultron. The Ant Man revelations would be retroactively discovered via the Ant Man movie 2 months later, so none of A2 would actually be spent on it.

and when did the fake Mandarin ever get Extremis serum injected to even be controlled by the sentient extremis lifeform?

No idea, but Ben Kingsley is confirmed for a new Marvel One Shot, probably attached to the Thor 2 home release.

I like how Guardians for the most part is left out

GotG is separate from The Avengers. Other than sharing some villains Marvel has been clear that they want to run it as a franchise, within the MCU franchise, apart from the Avengers franchises. I know that's kind of confusing, but basically they want the Cosmic Marvel stuff to stand apart from the largely Earth-based Marvel stuff.

 

[Dai101]

Ole ole ole oleee

 

[Zen_Arcade]

There is no way this is true. These movies don't get nearly as complicated as these tweets.

 

[TDLink]

I may end up eating my hat here but all this sounds way too oddly specific and convoluted. Especially when we won't see the final payoff for another few years. When was the last time the exact plot to a big blockbuster, down to all its various twists and turns, was leaked this far in advance, especially one that spans multiple movies?

I kind of agree but the scripts for all of the involved movies have been finished for a while now, and it all revolves around The Mandarin, Ultron, and Ant Man. It is far from "the exact plot" of everything as we don't know what the heroes are up to at all from this or how exactly the villains would factor in beyond a few details (if it's real).

My point is it's feasible that the guy has seen the scripts, or been told what is in the scripts. He has been right around 90% in the past.

 

[sant]

This sounds very confusing, theres no way they jump from generic aliens to this shit.

 

[jet1911]

I read the OP and I still have noooooooooo idea what is going on lol. I guess that's a good thing.

 

[Lambda Pie]

i have no idea what's going on.

 

[TDLink]

This sounds very confusing, theres no way they jump from generic aliens to this shit.

It's not that big of a jump. Based on the rumour the Mandarin stuff is a build up starting in Iron Man 3, continuing in potentially a One Shot on the Thor DVD, the Agents of Shield TV show, and Captain America 2...only then culminating in Avengers 2 where Ultron gets roped in. The time travel shenanigans (the most convoluted parts) then get presented in A2, and fully make sense a couple months later in Ant Man.

I agree it would be asking the audience to follow it all more than the MCU has in the past...but not all that much more with how much they are spreading it out. At the very least, I don't think it's out of the question.

 

[terribletwo]

i have no idea what's going on.

Lots of rumors that are obviously fake because they include a handful of confirmed things to make it seem legitimate

Ant Man indeed has segments in the past. Ant Man has nothing to do with Ultron or the Avengers because the script has been done and the movie was in pre-production well before A2 was written. It's being made on Edgar Wright's schedule

 

[FunkyMunkey]

I like people calling these ideas terrible even though it's summarizing four superhero movies (which are already full of "huh?") in a collection of random tweets.

I'm happy they're going crazy with the complex (far-fetched) comic stuff.

Summarizing four super hero movies with a lot of crazy predictions mixed in.

It is definitely crazy haha.

 

[Yonafunu]

...huh?

 

[Nairume]

I like people calling these ideas terrible even though it's summarizing four superhero movies (which are already full of "huh?") in a collection of random tweets.

I'm happy they're going crazy with the complex (far-fetched) comic stuff.

Summarizing four super hero movies with a lot of crazy predictions mixed in.

 

[TDLink]

Lots of rumors that are obviously fake because they include a handful of confirmed things to make it seem legitimate

Ant Man indeed has segments in the past. Ant Man has nothing to do with Ultron or the Avengers because the script has been done and the movie was in pre-production well before A2 was written. It's being made on Edgar Wright's schedule

Ant Man was originally written in 2006 but underwent rewrites earlier this year in order to tie it into the MCU rather than be "Stand alone". Joss Whedon is the "Showrunner" of the MCU, who along with executive producer Kevin Feige oversee all projects in the MCU. Whether this is true or not, whatever happens in Ant Man is definitely taking the rest of the MCU into consideration and the rest of the MCU is taking it into consideration.

 

[Can Crusher]

Can't be real. Either that or the guy isn't explaining himself properly because that reads like some 13 year old's incomprehensible fan fic rambling.