While I don't necessarily agree with your opinion of WHY this is, I certainly have noticed that same thing. The GI review is, in my opinion, rather fair with its score and assessment of the game's shortcomings. However, I really do think they could have been more clear about some of the game's strengths and some of the eye-popping moments you're bound to experience--regardless of the quality of the overall package.Afrikan said:
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Backbreaker |OT| of FINALLY next-gen football
- Thread starter The M.O.B
- Start date
Mushroom Kingdom Shine-Gets! in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnEgGztUsLI
TheApatheticOne
Member
Im still struggling with passing. I cant get more than 3 passes off without throwing a pick. Despite being in focus mode, doing the flick up and then down, trying to lead the WR, trying nothing but flicking up, one of the following happens....
1.) WR is open, but the pass is so wild that its 75% intercepted/25% incomplete
2.) WR runs a route that looks nothing like the route they should be running, made even more apparent by the fact that you throw it straight to where he should be, and the secondary is right there where he should be. Interception.
3.) You look for a second option, and yo....SACKED!!!!! If you're lucky, your QB who throws passes like Hideo Nomo didn't fumble it, or throw a crappy pass that gets picked. But to be honest, if I get picked from a crappy pass, I can hardly blame the getting hit since every pass seems pretty bad.
4.) WR is open, but apparently he was eating sticks of butter before he hit the field. Your own WR deflects the pass, picked off by the D.
5.) WR is open, catches ball. Ive seen it before.
Those are the options. In about 20 games, Ive had ONE good passing game. By good, I mean 11/20, 180 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs. I love the game, so if Im being critical, its out of love. But anymore, I end up running the entire game, since Im good at that. If I pass, I pretty much have a 1/3 chance anymore of turning it over.
1.) WR is open, but the pass is so wild that its 75% intercepted/25% incomplete
2.) WR runs a route that looks nothing like the route they should be running, made even more apparent by the fact that you throw it straight to where he should be, and the secondary is right there where he should be. Interception.
3.) You look for a second option, and yo....SACKED!!!!! If you're lucky, your QB who throws passes like Hideo Nomo didn't fumble it, or throw a crappy pass that gets picked. But to be honest, if I get picked from a crappy pass, I can hardly blame the getting hit since every pass seems pretty bad.
4.) WR is open, but apparently he was eating sticks of butter before he hit the field. Your own WR deflects the pass, picked off by the D.
5.) WR is open, catches ball. Ive seen it before.
Those are the options. In about 20 games, Ive had ONE good passing game. By good, I mean 11/20, 180 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs. I love the game, so if Im being critical, its out of love. But anymore, I end up running the entire game, since Im good at that. If I pass, I pretty much have a 1/3 chance anymore of turning it over.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
Used my $20 Amazon cred from Red Dead and scored this sucker for $25. Will have it tomorrow.
TheApatheticOne said:
you are not the only one.....this game forces you to have a plan pre-snap.....when you are starting to get the hang of it, then try to find your second read....till then...this is what I would advice...
look at the defense....let them set up to their real alignment....then call a fake snap (I'm starting to believe this really slows them down from getting initial pressure every now and then)..wait some more......make sure you main read is highlighted....hike the ball, watch the LB first...check if they are blitzing...if they are.....don't focus on your receiver...pay attention to your Oline and try to move around in the pocket to evade the rush, then quickly focus on your Receiver, he should be open if he is going across the middle...and tap up.......this is for when you need a 1st down on 3rd and long....if your read is covered run with your QB up the middle and slide...other wise CPU will call prevent Defense on you....if that is the case try to find the open man with time you have.
if its 2nd down and 5 or what ever and it looks like the defense is crowding the LOS.....then make sure you have a screen play in your audibles......hold focus the whole time....hike it and throw it as soon as pressure is in your face....and that should be a big gain...
EVERYONE stay away from using aggressive mode...I know it is hard to....but try to get used to the way the game moves first....and when you are better consistently...then use that mode when need be...otherwise stay away from it......kind of like the Power Swing from MLB The Show.
try to use football strategy...run the ball to set up short 1st down situations....pick passing plays you comfortable with...practice throwing to your RBs out of the back field....
but most important, know your team...in this game Ratings actually mean something...so go to the depth chart and look at your QB, what is he good at....what is he not....look at your RBs.....look at your Receivers.....and then look at your Oline...who is the weak link...and maybe call plays where there is more protection on that side..... look at the opposing defense's players....which CB maybe to stay away from.....look at their Dline...do they have a super player that might burst through your line....see which one you should pay attention to......
its hard to want to do this with an unlicensed game....because you have to get to know the players.....with an NFL game, you already know who is good, who to throw to...how to use a team.....some in the BackBreaker Community are trying to recreate the NFL, someone might have found a way to edit stats, so each player and teams play like how we would expect.
here is the person, he is looking for a programmer right now to help out
http://www.operationsports.com/foru...r-editor-possible-but-ill-need-some-help.html
this reviewer seems like he pays attention to details....I'm not saying this because he gave it a good score, actually I wish the gaming media went away with scoring games and left it to the content of the review.
I care more about the content which is important to see if a reviewer appreciates what a game does and doesn't prejudge it going in....which can cause a person to miss out on what advanced things the game can do.
in the opening two paragraphs he hit it right on the nail about how I feel.
this game has it's problems, but imo the positives this game brings to Next Gen football Totally out weighs it's current negatives......this is what we were owed when we bought these expensive machines....this type of tech...this type of gameplay.....
hopefully BB2 adds things like proper fatigue, injury, and other stuff to this great foundation it already has.......they can only go up from here.... I don't see the devs "taking" out features....to be brought back in after a couple of years..... I expect them to keep moving forward and advancing the gameplay and the tech, and the features.
I care more about the content which is important to see if a reviewer appreciates what a game does and doesn't prejudge it going in....which can cause a person to miss out on what advanced things the game can do.
in the opening two paragraphs he hit it right on the nail about how I feel.
this game has it's problems, but imo the positives this game brings to Next Gen football Totally out weighs it's current negatives......this is what we were owed when we bought these expensive machines....this type of tech...this type of gameplay.....
hopefully BB2 adds things like proper fatigue, injury, and other stuff to this great foundation it already has.......they can only go up from here.... I don't see the devs "taking" out features....to be brought back in after a couple of years..... I expect them to keep moving forward and advancing the gameplay and the tech, and the features.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
He probably should have added "in motion" to the end of that sentence.vumpler said:
JustHadToJoin
Member
are there any youtube videos of not amazing breakaway runs but simply the incredible physics of euphoria in action? i wanna see how players interact with each other on tackles, bumping into each other, and stuff like that.
JustHadToJoin said:
I don't know if you heard or not, but youtube has this search function. You could use that or look at this one ....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDSkb9MRPHo
Futurevoid
Member
Some NFL teams I've been working on and have mostly complete. I just have to finish up the roster changes. The Jets logo was a pain. My wife wants me to do the Ravens next so that will no doubt be entertaining.
Steelers:
Jets:
My Giants are all done:
Steelers:
Jets:
My Giants are all done:
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
IGN loves Backbreaker!!!!
Closing Comments
Backbreaker, despite its many flaws and poor design choices, actually does have potential thanks to the euphoria engine. The groundwork has been laid for a fine football experience (as you can tell from some of the cool-looking tackles) but the developers need to re-think some of the steps they've taken to get to this point, mainly in the core gameplay of Backbreaker. As it stands, this game feels more like a beefy Xbox Live Arcade or PlayStation Network release searching for its identity than something that belongs on retail store shelves.
IGN Ratings for Backbreaker (X360).
4.0 Presentation
Stadiums are fairly lifeless, players are soulless and POD's "Here Comes The Boom" needs to just die.
7.0 Graphics
There are some cool-looking player models that interact fairly well, but animations could feel more lifelike. Details could be better, too.
3.0 Sound
Everything is very vacant. No commentary, no on-field dialogue, and POD's "Here Comes The Boom" still needs to die.
5.0 Gameplay
The foundation is here for something cool, but the myriad gameplay design flaws and an identity crisis really hurt.
5.0 Lasting Appeal
Online modes aren't bad, but the list of modes should deviate from the norm, much like the rest of the package tries to.
5.0
OVERALL Meh
(out of 10)
Closing Comments
Backbreaker, despite its many flaws and poor design choices, actually does have potential thanks to the euphoria engine. The groundwork has been laid for a fine football experience (as you can tell from some of the cool-looking tackles) but the developers need to re-think some of the steps they've taken to get to this point, mainly in the core gameplay of Backbreaker. As it stands, this game feels more like a beefy Xbox Live Arcade or PlayStation Network release searching for its identity than something that belongs on retail store shelves.
IGN Ratings for Backbreaker (X360).
4.0 Presentation
Stadiums are fairly lifeless, players are soulless and POD's "Here Comes The Boom" needs to just die.
7.0 Graphics
There are some cool-looking player models that interact fairly well, but animations could feel more lifelike. Details could be better, too.
3.0 Sound
Everything is very vacant. No commentary, no on-field dialogue, and POD's "Here Comes The Boom" still needs to die.
5.0 Gameplay
The foundation is here for something cool, but the myriad gameplay design flaws and an identity crisis really hurt.
5.0 Lasting Appeal
Online modes aren't bad, but the list of modes should deviate from the norm, much like the rest of the package tries to.
5.0
OVERALL Meh
(out of 10)
I was getting really frustrated passing the ball with my QB in the RTBB. So I couldn't tell if it was the QB's fault or if I didn't know wtf was going on in the passing game.
So I loaded up Tom Brady for the New England Patriots.. I mean Militia and it was like night and day pasing the ball. You don't even have to use the focus button at times, just select the player and throw.
It seems like when you start the RTBB they severly handicap your teams stats. So my team was playing at around a 29 overall level, while in exhibition they play at around 80.
So I loaded up Tom Brady for the New England Patriots.. I mean Militia and it was like night and day pasing the ball. You don't even have to use the focus button at times, just select the player and throw.
It seems like when you start the RTBB they severly handicap your teams stats. So my team was playing at around a 29 overall level, while in exhibition they play at around 80.
TheApatheticOne said:
Try this out. I haven't done extensive testing to see if it helps. When i get the time I'll see if it improves the throwing game. At first look it reminds me of maximum passing in NFL 2k except with greater control.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImIysGeX3ak
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
Chrange said:
Maybe I will....maybe I will.
sportzhead
Member
MyFaceIsOnFire said:
This is why I don't bother with reviews anymore. If you compare this review of a first attempt at a next gen football game to IGN's Madden 06 review, you can't help but laugh.
IGN Madden 06 Review
Backbreaker is not even close to the best football game ever made, but to rate the game so low because it's different is silly.
D
Deleted member 8095
Unconfirmed Member
sportzhead said:
Can't disagree, Madden 06 was utter garbage. Keep in mind that came out, what, 5 years ago?
sportzhead
Member
MyFaceIsOnFire said:
Yeah, but even back then the presentation, sound, gameplay, and modes were not even on par with the XBOX/PS2 version of the same game.
Futurevoid
Member
6 years of iteration built on the same game engine that still has done very little to build actual physics into the game versus a brand new first year football game built on a pure physics engine. Gee, no shit the feature set and overall polish don't match up. A little perspective goes a long way.MyFaceIsOnFire said:
Fundamentally, you either understand that with Backbreaker you are getting an alternative experience that has some real growing to do. There are bugs , there are gameplay problems - it's not perfect. If that doesn't interest you, then move on. Don't buy the thing and go play Madden. I personally enjoy Madden a great deal. I own Madden 10. I plan to buy Madden 11. I also enjoy Backbreaker and if there is a sequel that builds on the foundation developed here, I'm down for it.
Give this team two more years of building and I think we'll have ourselves a really great alternative/compliment to Madden. I'm personally fine with handing over the $30 bucks I paid for the game to support the team in the interim. Hell, the team creator alone has kept me occupied and engaged for longer than I care to admit (179 layers in the Ravens logo!).
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
The more information on a game the better. The most useful reviews are sometimes the most negative, but in this case it feels like the current round of reviewers just didn't put much time into the game. I get the feeling that they have expectations on how a football game should play and so they react very negatively when the game fails to meet them. So the current reviews characterize that negative reaction while the content mostly serves to justify it. The reviewers who might be more open minded aren't going to touch it with a 10 foot pole because it's a sim style sports game.Chrange said:
It's ok for a reviewer to not like a game, but I don't really care for how they consider things like the camera or stick controls to be objectively bad. It reminds me of the infamous Soccer Manager review, in some respects.
vumpler said:
for that part, I think he meant more in a technical view....as 3D models, they are pretty detailed and move realistically.
as far as artistic.....he said this
"Player appearance is surprisingly basic and typical things like height and weight cannot be edited."
also, is there anyone else who likes playing both in day time and night time equally..... usually in sports games in the past, one looked better than the other....
I remember LOVING playing Madden 07 because of the lighting and the colors during the day....but the night games looked, imo ugly......same thing with MLB The Show for the first couple of next gen entries.......but in BackBreaker...I love playing in the day, BEAUTIFUL skys and the players look great.....but man, Night games look f'n great as well.....
from the previous page
the last game that I enjoyed playing at night time settings was Madden 06 I believe for the PS2/Xbox..... I liked how they changed the lighting settings each quarter in the evening games.....night time games looked good.
Skiesofwonder
Walruses, camels, bears, rabbits, tigers and badgers.
Really digging the demo (actaully feels like playing real football) but the reviewers have me all-kinds of scared. Might wait for a cheap price now....
jordan0386
Member
We'll get the camera options. I feel it. This game can easily do about 400k. Madden players can easily pop out $30-$40 down the line on another product. If FPS fans pay for 5 shooters a year, why wouldnt a Madden fan buy two football games?
The experience just has to be somewhat similar to Madden.
The experience just has to be somewhat similar to Madden.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
jordan0386 said:
If you're talking about sales - dollars & cents - I can see what you're saying. But otherwise, I couldn't give a fuck what "Madden players" buy, play or think. No different than a BF or KZ fan couldn't give a fuck what COD guys are thinking about their game of choice. Just because it's football doesn't mean it has to be ANYTHING like Madden. I'm buying this game precisely because it's nothing like Madden, not because I'm looking for something to "replace" Madden. This is what people are talking about when they mention judging the game on its own merits.
To help with the passing game I figure I would post a play that I have been having fairly good success with, so other can try it out. Others feel free to do the same.
I am doing this from memory so forgive me if the information isn't a 100% correct.
Feel free to correct my interpretation of the play and the reads.
EDIT: I will try to comeback and break down the SMASH route at a later date using the article linked above. If I remember correctly the problem with the smash route is the execution factor. You start off looking at the TE (which is great, but when you try to switch off to the WR running the hitch, you have to cycle to the RB first, and then cycle to the WR you wanted. So it takes a bit more execution to throw the smash in this game.
I am doing this from memory so forgive me if the information isn't a 100% correct.
Play Name: TE Hit
Formation: Singleback
Primary Receiver: TE
Secondary Receiver: Slot WR
Play Overview: The play is pretty simple. Basically the TE runs a shallow post route. While the slot WR runs an in route. Both routes run about the depth of the LB's.
Why this play works: It's a combination of 3 things. First, the read as the QB is fairly straight forward. Second, there is a fairly low barrier of execution. It is really easy to move from your primary receiver to the secondary receiver and throw the ball. Third, the play develeopes rather quickly, so you are less likely to get sacked.
Basic Read: The read is a pretty fundamental one that many offensive plays use. Basically you are attacking the MLB at two different depths. You are sending a receiver behind him and another receiver in front of him. If the MLB drops to cover the deeper receiver, you throw the ball in front of him. If the MLB covers the shallow route, you throw behind him. The 'Smash' route is another great example of attacking a defender by using routes of different depths. If you want to understand the smash route you should check this page out: http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2008/01/divide-route-in-multiple-smash-concept.html
Zone Read: As the QB you want to look in the middle of the field at about the depth of the MLB. If the LB's are in a shallow zone they will not stay with the TE, and you should be able to hit him with a pass once he clears the LB's. If the MLB drops deeper and stay in the general area of the TE, look for the slot WR coming over the middle into the area the MLB vacated.
Man Read: If it's man coverage one of the Linebackers are going to go with the TE. This is going to probably remove this option unless you can drop it in over the top to the TE, but the In route by the slot receiver has a really good chance to be open just due to the nature of the in route itself versus man coverage. If you lead the slot receiver with the pass you should have a fairly low chance of throwing a interception.
Video Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-HlWWCX1e0
Feel free to correct my interpretation of the play and the reads.
EDIT: I will try to comeback and break down the SMASH route at a later date using the article linked above. If I remember correctly the problem with the smash route is the execution factor. You start off looking at the TE (which is great, but when you try to switch off to the WR running the hitch, you have to cycle to the RB first, and then cycle to the WR you wanted. So it takes a bit more execution to throw the smash in this game.
Haunted said:
Yea. That YT guy grates me a bit, but it was just the first video I could find that met the requirements of the poster.
Haunted said:I was hoping for more videos showing off the awesome euphoria engine in action.
There are like a bajillion BB videos on youtube. If you searched it I am sure you would find some that would satisfy your craving.
Here is a running tip posted by the developers themselves
Another running tip, this one applies to me because I am always tripping over legs at the line as a RB
I am away from home and will not be able to try this out for a couple of days...
BB tips thread at the official BB forums:
http://forum.backbreakergame.com/showthread.php?t=7212
Another running tip, this one applies to me because I am always tripping over legs at the line as a RB
I am away from home and will not be able to try this out for a couple of days...
BB tips thread at the official BB forums:
http://forum.backbreakergame.com/showthread.php?t=7212
diamondstar
Member
mbmonk said:
Great write up! I think that is what alot of people are missing in this game. Do plays with purpose, know what you are looking for before the pass play.
This game is right at home for me because I have been pre-reading defense since last-gen. I laugh now at all you quick snappers that just relied on money plays and didn't take the time to know what to look. Oh wait, those are probably the ones that currently hate the game and camera view.
I'm so glad I no longer have to look in the direction of Madden anymore. Operations sports will be happy to no longer see me bitching in the Madden forums again. My next-gen football game is finally here.
Haunted
Member
It's fine.mbmonk said:Not everything in life can be spoon fed to you. Oh well. :lol
I just couldn't resist the joke. It's nothing personal. Feel free to berate me and make me feel like the asshole and dumbass I truly am.
I just enjoy looking at cool vids together with other GAFers, going all "holy shit did you see that" and "laughingsmiley.gif" ya know.Are you the guy narrating these YT videos? If so, yes, I was talking about you. :lol
TheApatheticOne
Member
diamondstar said:
I love the game, but Im definitely a "quick snapper". :lol And thats my fault, not the games. Its not that I dont know how to read a defense, its that no game *cough* in quite a long time has made it a requirement for success. I love and embrace this change. This game is similiar to Skate to me. I played Tony Hawk for so many years and when I first played Skate, I knew I really really liked what I was playing, but it's controls were completely foreign to me and not how my brain thought a skateboarding game should be controlled. After time, it became natural, and Tony Hawk felt fun to me, but felt inadequate... for lack of a better term.
Im playing the QB position very badly, and Im paying for it. However, Im learning and adjusting to a new style of play, and loving every minute of it, having a blast.
Haunted said:It's fine.
Thanks for not taking it personal. I really appreciate that. For the record I want you to be in this thread enjoying watching videos with us. We need the company, thread seems a bit dead. So any company we can get is appreciated. What type of videos in particular are you looking for? Just any video that isn't by ApexIsFree
?diamondstar said:
Thank you for the kind words about my post. They are appreciated. Nothing is more demotivating (I just like to make words like that up) than spending time writing up a post and getting no response what so ever. I would take someone calling me a buffoon and telling why I was incorrect than to get no response at all. So I truly mean it when I say I appreciate the kind words.
diamondstar said:
This is my beef with all football video games. I don't think they educate the gamer about the game of football. I think madden 10 has some "Madden Library" or something but it never really covered anything like what I posted about above. You, as a gamer, have to actively seek out that type of information. Football games just give you the play diagram and says "hey you should probably throw it to this guy he is the primary receiver". But they don't tell you how to actually progress through the reads (aka what if the primary receiver isn't wide f-ing open), or what keys you should be reading as the QB. I would love for a game to have a "beginner playbook", that was only 10 or so plays but they would walk through the progression of those 10 plays. So the player could really understand the play. At that point as a beginner I now have 10 plays that I understand ( 10 goto plays in a pinch). And I can take what I learned about those 10 plays and the logic behind them and try to understand the other plays in my playbook.
I think defense would be a little more challenging to teach because the player could pick any position and that changes the reads and assignments. But for offense you are always the QB or the RB so that is easier to teach.
I should get picking up my copy today. I'm curious to see how it is.
I'm a Madden guy, but the demo did bring back that feel of being on the field (I played organized football for MANY years.)
What's everyone using to capture the video these days? It seems many set up a camcorder and record the screen - which is a bit... weird and low quality. I just wonder if that's better than say - the Dazzle DC100 video capture stuff in SD.
I'm a Madden guy, but the demo did bring back that feel of being on the field (I played organized football for MANY years.)
What's everyone using to capture the video these days? It seems many set up a camcorder and record the screen - which is a bit... weird and low quality. I just wonder if that's better than say - the Dazzle DC100 video capture stuff in SD.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
Even SD capture cards are way better than off-screen footage. 480p is more than enough for YouTube.CPaladino said:
SapientWolf said:
I am completely fine with off the screen caps. It's not the best, but in terms of cost and ease of editing I think it makes complete since.
It looks far from professional and a bit weird/creepy. But you record it one time and it already has your voice in the video, the game audio, and decent picture quality.
Plus most people already have a cam corder or a something good enough to record and push video to their PC. So their startup cost is zero (hard to beat).
That being said if you are going to eventually post 100+ videos to youtube then you should probably break down and spend some cash.
I am thinking about putting the play breakdown in video form, and I am not coming off the hip for a capture card. I have priorities and Starcraft 2 comes first
diamondstar
Member
mbmonk said:
No problem man. I was pretty shocked by the post actually because I haven't seen anyone break it down like that. Perfect analysis.
Me and you both. Football should start at the basic level with "if thens". If LB (A) does this then I do that. I am waiting for a practice or tutorial mode like that. I think BB has the foundation for OUR type of football game. Let's just hope they take steps forward on the next game and I pray they don't listen to all the naysayers and decide to change the camera view.
The best comparision is Skate. Look what that game did for the genre. It takes balls to be in a responsible position and take the "hard way" out by going against the grain and not doing something that is mainstream and easily accessible. I will always praise a company or individual that goes that route.