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Backbreaker |OT| of FINALLY next-gen football

M

mbmonk

Member
diamondstar said:
No problem man. I was pretty shocked by the post actually because I haven't seen anyone break it down like that. Perfect analysis.

Me and you both. Football should start at the basic level with "if thens". If LB (A) does this then I do that. I am waiting for a practice or tutorial mode like that. I think BB has the foundation for OUR type of football game. Let's just hope they take steps forward on the next game and I pray they don't listen to all the naysayers and decide to change the camera view.

The best comparision is Skate. Look what that game did for the genre. It takes balls to be in a responsible position and take the "hard way" out by going against the grain and not doing something that is mainstream and easily accessible. I will always praise a company or individual that goes that route.
Click to expand...

Thank you again. And I am 100% with you on the tutorial and supporting companies that take the tough stance.

I really appreciate the community over at operation sports. I was REALLY frustrated with offense in Madden 09 ( I had no clue about reading defenses, keys, etc.) and one guy made multiple post in the thread I created, and really walked me through some of those basic things. So they community at OS showed me the light. And I have been searching ever since :D

I hope they don't change the camera. I think it's one of the games biggest strengths. I think it was a genius idea, and that camera angle allows you to appreciate the hits, physics, and interactions between all 22 players on the field in a way that the god mode camera just wouldn't convey.

Do you have any resources you used to learn about reading defense, QB keys, etc? Or did you just pick them up over time reading the forums at OS?
 
D

diamondstar

Member
mbmonk said:
Thank you again. And I am 100% with you on the tutorial and supporting companies that take the tough stance.

I really appreciate the community over at operation sports. I was REALLY frustrated with offense in Madden 09 ( I had no clue about reading defenses, keys, etc.) and one guy made multiple post in the thread I created, and really walked me through some of those basic things. So they community at OS showed me the light. And I have been searching ever since :D

I hope they don't change the camera. I think it's one of the games biggest strengths. I think it was a genius idea, and that camera angle allows you to appreciate the hits, physics, and interactions between all 22 players on the field in a way that the god mode camera just wouldn't convey.

Do you have any resources you used to learn about reading defense, QB keys, etc? Or did you just pick them up over time reading the forums at OS?
Click to expand...

Yea Operation Sports is a cool site but I think they can be a little too anal at times and seem to be pretty pro-EA. But I would rather have that then countless fanboy rants. They always seem to have civalized discussions instead of fanboy arguments.

I have played football most of my young life so I guess that is where I get it from. But like you I was once lost :lol I used to play Madden all the time. Day one I bought it for years. I used to be a cheeser, running any play to exploit the A.I...etc. I thought that was the way to play the game. Then a little gem called 2k5 came along and while I still cheesed in the beginning, I soon learned I could play that game with real football knowledge and logic. I get that same feeling with BB.

I'm starting to build my team in RTBB before I go back online. Has anyone built a team and taken them online yet? Are they overpowered?
 
A

Afrikan

Member
Haunted said:
Are you the guy narrating these YT videos? If so, yes, I was talking about you. :lol
Click to expand...

No No No.. :lol .....that is not me... it is just that you used the word "super annoying" and I got called that in the previous page...so I thought you meant me.
 
T

The M.O.B

Member
mbmonk said:
M.O.B, any updates on that guide. If I can help in some form or fashion PM me, or post what you need help on in this thread.
Click to expand...

I just now got the game, so im a newb at the moment. Feel free to send me or post them here with any tips, but categorize them by passing, rushing, punt returns, etc.

I'm adding the tip you posted in the last page, and gathering any I can from the official forums or OSforums that have proven useful.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
This was a bitch but my wife is a huge Ravens fan and cracked the whip for me to get them in the game. I was able to get this all done in about 200 layers and about 3 hours worth of work. I was going to do the Eagles next but that looks like another project so I'll do up the Cowboys next.

6xupp5.jpg


mwuq2f.jpg


30shmo8.jpg
 
T

Thunderbear

Mawio Gawaxy iz da Wheeson hee pways games
I don't get why some sites are giving this game average graphic scores, I think the graphics are way better than Madden...

I personally also think the gameplay look a lot better, and I like everything I've seen in videos but if it doesn't play well when in your hands then that's a big shame. To me this was a big step forward for football games, design wise. I liked the perspective, the more personal control but it sounds like they messed up some basics.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
The M.O.B said:
I just now got the game, so im a newb at the moment. Feel free to send me or post them here with any tips, but categorize them by passing, rushing, punt returns, etc.

I'm adding the tip you posted in the last page, and gathering any I can from the official forums or OSforums that have proven useful.
Click to expand...

I just added to that post I made about the TE hit. I added the play art and a youtube video example of me making the read. Here is a link back to that post for future reference. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21610058&postcount=285

I am working on a running tip right now, but I have to test it more. It is a really basic way to run the football but it has helped me a ton. Just need flesh it out a bit before I post it.
 
T

The M.O.B

Member
sportzhead said:
Two of my custom teams. Going to do an all custom 16 team league when finished.

London Bridges


Saint Larimah Dragons
Click to expand...

I lOVE the color scheme that goes along with the designs, very nice work here.

mbmonk said:
I just added to that post I made about the TE hit. I added the play art and a youtube video example of me making the read. Here is a link back to that post for future reference. http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=21610058&postcount=285

I am working on a running tip right now, but I have to test it more. It is a really basic way to run the football but it has helped me a ton. Just need flesh it out a bit before I post it.
Click to expand...

WOW Nice breakdown, Adding your post now, now im pressured to add my own tips :lol
 
M

mbmonk

Member
Thunderbear said:
I don't get why some sites are giving this game average graphic scores, I think the graphics are way better than Madden...

I personally also think the gameplay look a lot better, and I like everything I've seen in videos but if it doesn't play well when in your hands then that's a big shame. To me this was a big step forward for football games, design wise. I liked the perspective, the more personal control but it sounds like they messed up some basics.
Click to expand...

Reading post like this make me want to start a "Backbreaker Pay It Forward" program. My initial thought is I buy an extra copy of BB and send it to someone on the fence. If they like it they ship my copy back and buy the game for themselves. Or if they like the game they buy their own copy and send it to the next person on the waiting list. Can anyone come up with a better twist on this basic idea.

I know some people could rent the game and make up their own minds. Obviously I put my $50 on the line if someone just decides to keep my game. And I would have to hold off on buying SC2, and I REALLY want that game. I have been waiting a long time for the sequel.

I just really like the game, and while this game has some problems. I have had more "WOW" moments than I have had in some AAA games. I think the fundemental core of the game is great. And you can do a lot of things to mitigate the problems. But that is just my opinion. I can't say to someone... "You should spend you $50 on this game". But I want people to at least try it out.

The M.O.B said:
now im pressured to add my own tips :lol
Click to expand...

Well get on it :lol
 
T

The M.O.B

Member
Ill also start a section dedicated to the custom teams, i would rather post non-nfl ones but ill do anything right now. Like the one above

Anything for more attention for this game.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
The Rough Riders are hilarious MiniDitka!:lol

I love the logo design on the London Bridges as well. Very nice!

I'll be posting up NFL teams as I complete them. I'm not going to bother posting up the "easy" ones unless folks care to see them. I did the Cowboys and it took me all about three minutes to do up the logo. The harder ones though I'll definitely post a pic or two. The Eagles are next up on my plate. That should be a toughy.
 
B

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
mbmonk said:
A video review, and a damn funny one at that
http://angryjoeshow.com/2010/06/game-review-backbreaker/
Click to expand...
I tried to watch that, but I didn't think it was that funny.
I only got as far as the 4 player complaint.

I agree with parts of the the written portion though:
The replay system is horrible.
No injuries.

I hope they don't compromise on the camera in the next game, because people that say "We that love football games want the birds-eye/gods-cam" are definitely not speaking for me.
But then again, maybe I don't love football games, I only bought like 6 of them since 2000. :)
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
bandresen said:
I tried to watch that, but I didn't think it was that funny.
I only got as far as the 4 player complaint.

I agree with parts of the the written portion though:
The replay system is horrible.
No injuries.

I hope they don't compromise on the camera in the next game, because people that say "We that love football games want the birds-eye/gods-cam" are definitely not speaking for me.
But then again, maybe I don't love football games, I only bought like 6 of them since 2000. :)
Click to expand...
I agree with you on the bird's eye, but they should really consider letting you rotate the camera without turning your player.
 
N

NEOPARADIGM

Banned
I was expecting a lot more in terms of atmosphere. Really surprised how bad the crowd reactions (or lack thereof) are, and the QB cadences are repetitive and robotic. Haven't played enough to say anything else, but a better, more intense atmosphere would have gone a long way. Dare I say my first few hours with the game have been boring if nothing else.
 
V

vumpler

If You Can't Beat 'Em, Talk Shit About 'Em
SapientWolf said:
I agree with you on the bird's eye, but they should really consider letting you rotate the camera without turning your player.
Click to expand...

These are completely ignorant statements on the camera. Football games have been using the panned out view since the NES and rightfully so. The view in my opinion is broken and takes away from the game far too much.

The great thing about options is that EVERYONE is happy. By not adding in a standard camera you're killing your product by eliminating a huge player base.

Not hating, just being brutally honest.
 
S

SapientWolf

Trucker Sexologist
vumpler said:
These are completely ignorant statements on the camera. Football games have been using the panned out view since the NES and rightfully so. The view in my opinion is broken and takes away from the game far too much.

The great thing about options is that EVERYONE is happy. By not adding in a standard camera you're killing your product by eliminating a huge player base.

Not hating, just being brutally honest.
Click to expand...
NaturalMotion hopes to license this tech for every major sports game out there. So the franchise needed something besides Euphoria to differentiate it in the marketplace. Thus, the camera view. Like most disruptive moves, it may eliminate some of the audience but has the potential to lure new ones. By not leaving the birds eye as a crutch they encourage players to get over their initial disorientation and learn the nuances of the new system. Those who do will find it to be very rewarding.
 
J

jdub03

Member
Futurevoid said:
This was a bitch but my wife is a huge Ravens fan and cracked the whip for me to get them in the game. I was able to get this all done in about 200 layers and about 3 hours worth of work. I was going to do the Eagles next but that looks like another project so I'll do up the Cowboys...
Click to expand...

Can you make a quick tutorial video of what shapes you used to create those curves and what you did to shape them like that. Im making the titans logo but I'm not sure how to make the flames.
 
I

I <3 Memes

Member
vumpler said:
These are completely ignorant statements on the camera. Football games have been using the panned out view since the NES and rightfully so. The view in my opinion is broken and takes away from the game far too much.

The great thing about options is that EVERYONE is happy. By not adding in a standard camera you're killing your product by eliminating a huge player base.

Not hating, just being brutally honest.
Click to expand...

If you give some players the option of using the god view then you completely break the game for the people not using it. One thing I would like to see is an adjustment to the camera for the QB scanning the field. Instead of turning to look at each individual route it would be better if the field were broken up into thirds, then the QB would be able to scan the entire field with just two moves left or right.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
I think the camera does a couple of different things in the positive

1) It visually sets it apart from Madden.
2) It conveys all the amazing physics, hits, and violence better than the god cam.
3) It makes you feel like a player on the field unlike coach/god cam.

Of course the camera has a bunch of negatives, but i give them credit. They really are trying to innovate in a genre that has grown stale. So I appreciate the fact they dare question the assertions that have just become accepted as the rule at this point in time. If football video gaming is going to move forward people have to question the accept logic. At some point if the game resembles Madden so much (camera, control scheme, etc) there isn't a reason for it's existence or gamers to buy it. We might as well just go play Madden.

They went for it. Some of it worked, some of it fell flat. Regardless I appreciate the effort.

They can worry about options once they get all the basics implemented.
 
G

GoodMorning

Member
I wish you could save replay's because I just ran into the greatest glitch ever. My team blocked a punt and I guess roughed the kicker, but the other team scooped up the ball and started running for their endzone I was like WTF. So I tackle the guy and there's a dog pile, but the whistle doesn't blow, the guy gets back up and keeps running for his endzone, so I tackle him again. Now I'm stuck in this perpetual dog pile. People dive in, get back up, run out, turn around and dive right back in. A guy came out of nowhere from the sidelines. Shit is madness :lol :lol :lol
 
C

Chrange

Banned
Decided to finally make a team so I created the Edmonton Eskimos. I'll post some pics tomorrow, but I wanted to say that the creation tool is a lot more in depth than I expected. The standard shapes, outlines, etc... but then there's the ability to cut standard designs, plus some kind of blocking out shapes?

I'm glad the Eskimos logo is just a skewed rectangle with a pair of ovals :lol
 
M

mbmonk

Member
You guys are truly amazing with the creation tools. I have the most ghetto Dolphins logo. I would feel shamed if I had to post actual pictures of it :lol


Anyone on the PS3 want to play some games? "Friend me up" if so. I am on the east cost. PSN is the same as my gaf name.
 
Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
The camera is nothing innovative. It's not much different if any different at all than the QB view Madden had in Superstar mode. I would also liken it to Tiburon making the QB vision default in Madden 06. Yes it made the game more realistic and tougher on the passing game. I loved it. But too many people complained and IIRC the next season it was optional and now it's gone entirely. I would expect the same thing to happen regarding the camera angle, assuming there even is a Backbreaker 2. It just doesn't work. It makes playing defense a waste of time and it makes the passing game way too much of a chore. It's not only the camera, it's the needlessly convoluted controls that go along with it. I think a traditional camera system, even with the radically changed controls, would have helped this game sell a lot more copies.
 
J

jdub03

Member
Chrange said:
Decided to finally make a team so I created the Edmonton Eskimos. I'll post some pics tomorrow, but I wanted to say that the creation tool is a lot more in depth than I expected. The standard shapes, outlines, etc... but then there's the ability to cut standard designs, plus some kind of blocking out shapes?

I'm glad the Eskimos logo is just a skewed rectangle with a pair of ovals :lol
Click to expand...

How do you cut existing shapes. I have no clue how to do it. Ok trying to make the Tennessee titans.
 
N

NEOPARADIGM

Banned
Bumblebeetuna said:
The camera is nothing innovative. It's not much different if any different at all than the QB view Madden had in Superstar mode.
Click to expand...

I'll give you that. NCAA 10 has that player-lock feature on defense which is basically the same thing, too. The camera isn't as close-up, but that's about the only difference: playing this game and playing NCAA with player-lock turned on feels almost identical.

Personally, I'm ready to say that the Metacritic score is about right - game is marginally better than a lemon. And I also completely agree with whichever review mentioned that it feels more like a PSN/XBLA game opposed to a full-fledged disc release. Very happy I only paid $25 for it.

All in all, the physics are cool and the graphics are great, but that's about where my praise comes to an end. The passing fucking sucks (and I'm not talking about it being hard, I'm talking about ball physics, pass trajectories, pass speeds, and everything in between: as great as the physics are for running and tackling, they're equally shit for ball physics), the playbooks are a bad joke, and the atmosphere is about as exciting as a dead fish.

I know "glorified tech demo" is fucking cliche, but, seriously ... glorified tech demo.

6/10.

Better luck next year.
 
F

Futurevoid

Member
jdub03 said:
Can you make a quick tutorial video of what shapes you used to create those curves and what you did to shape them like that. Im making the titans logo but I'm not sure how to make the flames.
Click to expand...
I can throw up a quick vid showing the layers I used, sure. It took a lot of playing around with different shapes to get it right. I'll see if I can throw it up a little later.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
The camera is nothing innovative. It's not much different if any different at all than the QB view Madden had in Superstar mode. I would also liken it to Tiburon making the QB vision default in Madden 06.
Click to expand...

I guess but it was shit for those games. This close up camera view works better than anything I have played in madden. Maybe it's the physics, not sure. But it feels better than Madden. I don't get bored playing defense in this game like I did in madden with that camera view.

I guess i would also argue that no game has made the up close cam as their default game cam. All the other cameras you mentioned were either not the default or still had the god mode view. Even 2K first person football was a secondary camera option.

Bumblebeetuna said:
It just doesn't work. It makes playing defense a waste of time and it makes the passing game way too much of a chore. It's not only the camera, it's the needlessly convoluted controls that go along with it. I think a traditional camera system, even with the radically changed controls, would have helped this game sell a lot more copies.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree with playing defense. I love the camera on defense. I can switch men effectively. The camera adds to the game on defense for me.

If the game had a changed camera people would still bitch about the controls, and then the controls would change and then everyone would still buy madden. Because BB, at that point, is just like madden except w/o the NFL licensce.

So Naturaul Motion has to find a way to make their camera or control scheme different and yet still better than madden to have a legitmate shot. Seems like that is what they are trying to do.
 
Bumblebeetuna

Bumblebeetuna

Member
NEOPARADIGM said:
All in all, the physics are cool and the graphics are great, but that's about where my praise comes to an end. The passing fucking sucks (and I'm not talking about it being hard, I'm talking about ball physics, pass trajectories, pass speeds, and everything in between: as great as the physics are for running and tackling, they're equally shit for ball physics), the playbooks are a bad joke, and the atmosphere is about as exciting as a dead fish.
Click to expand...

This morning I wanted to give the game another shot so I fired it up again. After one quarter my QB was like 0 for 8 with 2 fumbles and 2 INT's. Also, sacked 2-3 times. The 2 fumbles came on blitzes I couldn't see at all, my TE decided to double team some other guy both times and allow a LB to have a free shot. Every pass I threw, I was perfectly still in the pocket and had an open receiver. The two picks were wildly overthrown by at least 15 yards, right to the safety. Two times I actually hit my WR in stride, and both were dropped. The rest went nowhere near my WR but weren't bad enough throws to be picked off. I really don't get what I am doing wrong here.

Feet set.
No pressure.
Open WR.

Should be completed passes. This game blows. Graphics and physics are great, everything else is subpar.
 
M

mbmonk

Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
This morning I wanted to give the game another shot so I fired it up again. After one quarter my QB was like 0 for 8 with 2 fumbles and 2 INT's. Also, sacked 2-3 times. The 2 fumbles came on blitzes I couldn't see at all, my TE decided to double team some other guy both times and allow a LB to have a free shot. Every pass I threw, I was perfectly still in the pocket and had an open receiver. The two picks were wildly overthrown by at least 15 yards, right to the safety. Two times I actually hit my WR in stride, and both were dropped. The rest went nowhere near my WR but weren't bad enough throws to be picked off. I really don't get what I am doing wrong here.

Feet set.
No pressure.
Open WR.

Should be completed passes. This game blows. Graphics and physics are great, everything else is subpar.
Click to expand...

Play with the New England Militia. QB focus rating makes a HUGE difference.

Backbreaker has teams from different levels of talent. They have the NFL like teams with the New England, Philly teams. They have a level below that similar to to NFL Europe I guess, and then a level below that. And QB's at the non NFL levels are TERRIBLE. I can't pass with them at all.

I created a custom team that was pass heavy and "focus" was their key attribute. That gave me a 99 focus QB. There are times where I don't even have to "focus" on the reciever. I just select him and throw, the pass still gets completed.
 
C

Chrange

Banned
My first game with the Eskimos I was 18-24 with 2 Int. Mostly ran the ball, trying to get a feel for how the team is set up on the run. Had little trouble with slant patterns, finding an open guy.

My second game I had 10 Int :lol I was throwing into double coverage, overthrowing the ball...you name it, I screwed it up.
 
J

jdub03

Member
Futurevoid said:
I can throw up a quick vid showing the layers I used, sure. It took a lot of playing around with different shapes to get it right. I'll see if I can throw it up a little later.
Click to expand...

Cool. That would be great. Can't wait to finish the titan logo.
 
J

jdub03

Member
Bumblebeetuna said:
This morning I wanted to give the game another shot so I fired it up again. After one quarter my QB was like 0 for 8 with 2 fumbles and 2 INT's. Also, sacked 2-3 times. The 2 fumbles came on blitzes I couldn't see at all, my TE decided to double team some other guy both times and allow a LB to have a free shot. Every pass I threw, I was perfectly still in the pocket and had an open receiver. The two picks were wildly overthrown by at least 15 yards, right to the safety. Two times I actually hit my WR in stride, and both were dropped. The rest went nowhere near my WR but weren't bad enough throws to be picked off. I really don't get what I am doing wrong here.

Feet set.
No pressure.
Open WR.

Should be completed passes. This game blows. Graphics and physics are great, everything else is subpar.
Click to expand...

Once you know what your doing the game seems too easy. I rarely throw int's or get sacked. It's just a huge learning curve.
 
C

Chrange

Banned
I'm not super thrilled with the uniforms yet, but the logo turned out pretty well. It would be nice to have the ability to color belts, stripe socks, wear different shoes, etc... All in all though, it does a pretty good job of duplicating uniforms.

110w409.jpg

1zyadt1.jpg

2j0ywlu.jpg

99jn29.jpg

6id5c2.jpg






Edit - it's an AWESOME feeling when you blitz and your guy doesn't get picked up by a defender :lol Crushed the QB and forced the fumble, leading to a FAT GUY TOUCHDOWN!

24wakpk.jpg

29ykpeg.jpg

1zodld0.jpg
 
C

Chrange

Banned
sportzhead said:
That must have been tough trying to figure out who to run away from and what guy to throw to.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I need to make the dark jerseys still. I just wanted to try these out :D
 
D

Deleted member 8095

Unconfirmed Member
For as much as I hate this game, the Madden team really needs to study the physics. The gang tackles and pile ups in BB are superb.
 
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