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Batman Arkham City |OT| Smashin' Faces, Glidin' Places

T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
One thing I found really weird about AC is that the game's story fits neatly into the comic, except for
Hush. His side quest directly conflicts with Jeph Loeb's Hush.
 
D

Daft_Cat

Member
RoninChaos said:
It's not Romeo and Juliet, man. I don't agree at all, but more power to you.
Batman doesn't NEED the Joker. There will ALWAYS be another set of villains for him to fight. None may be as deadly or cracked out as the joker has been, but still. There's a reason why versions of the character that exist at a future point in time has never stopped what he's been doing. In Kingdom Come, Maggog blew joker away. Batman's still doing it. In Batman Beyond, hardly any of his old rogues gallery exists, yet he was playing Batman as long as he could.

Batman doesn't validate himself in some personal way via his villains. There will always be crime and injustice. THAT validates the character.
Click to expand...

I agree with this entirely. The Joker is just an example of what the Batman inspires. The only "necessity" linking the two together is the fact that Joker, being antithetical, can really only be brought down by Batman. However, since Batman is a symbol, not a vigilante, he'll never kill the Joker..hence de facto validating his existence.

There's no psychological necessity whatsoever. Batman would love to be rid of the Joker..he's come close to doing it himself several times.
 
T

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
Secret_Riddle said:
I agree with this entirely. The Joker is just an example of what the Batman inspires. The only "necessity" linking the two together is the fact that Joker, being antithetical, can really only be brought down by Batman. However, since Batman is a symbol, not a vigilante, he'll never kill the Joker..hence de facto validating his existence.

There's no psychological necessity whatsoever. Batman would love to be rid of the Joker..he's come close several times.
Click to expand...

And there are several instances (both in comics and in other media) where Batman talks about wanting to kill Joker many times, but knows he can't.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
RoninChaos said:
It's not Romeo and Juliet, man. I don't agree at all, but more power to you.
Batman doesn't NEED the Joker. There will ALWAYS be another set of villains for him to fight. None may be as deadly or cracked out as the joker has been, but still. There's a reason why versions of the character that exist at a future point in time has never stopped what he's been doing. In Kingdom Come, Maggog blew joker away. Batman's still doing it. In Batman Beyond, hardly any of his old rogues gallery exists, yet he was playing Batman as long as he could.

Batman doesn't validate himself in some personal way via his villains. There will always be crime and injustice. THAT validates the character.
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting that Batman stops being Batman just because Joker is dead. I'm merely saying that he felt remorse at Joker's death because Joker gave him purpose in life. More than any other villain, Joker has been Batman's foil at every turn. After losing him, Batman felt an odd sense of remorse, a loss of purpose. That's all I'm saying.
 
D

Daft_Cat

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
I'm not suggesting that Batman stops being Batman just because Joker is dead. I'm merely saying that he felt remorse at Joker's death because Joker gave him purpose in life. More than any other villain, Joker has been Batman's foil at every turn. After losing him, Batman felt an odd sense of remorse, a loss of purpose. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...

I see what you're saying. It's almost like after
so many years of trying to stop him WHILE keeping him alive... he's somehow failed his own purpose. It's as if to say "no, in the end the only thing that was ever going to stop the Joker was his own death." It almost shows what a failure Batman's entire approach has been.

As I see it, that's the message Arkham City tries to leave you with. Batman creates these villains. They exist because of him, and Gotham's worse off because of it. At the end of the day, Batman doesn't really even stop Strange. Strange and Ras basically just fight it out themselves. If it had been up to Batman, the situation would have probably just escalated further. Immediately after, Batman has the opportunity to let Joker die, without raising a single finger. Joker DOES die, but had Batman had it his way..he would have saved him.

It's as if say, what good, if any, has Batman actually done? In a sense, I think that's what Strange wanted to prove.
 
V

vixlar

Member
LQX said:
Finished it. Great game, great sequel.

+Graphics were amazing. My Batman looked like he had gone through hell by the end of the game. And great voice work from the cartoons though it was odd hearing Penguin with a British accent, it worked though.

+-Combat. I like it but I almost wish it was faster and there was another attack button. One for punch the other kick.

+-Catwoman. I liked playing as her but holy hell I was lost at the end with her. Also, I don't get why so many are saying her story doesn't matter. It played very well in the game.

-There did not seem to be a good amount of Batman villains to go up against in a meaningful way. And the story seemed stretched for only 2-3 of them. Also some of it did not seem to wrap up well (Mr Freeze, Robin). I still liked it though.

I cant wait for some of thee single player DLC. There was a Mad Hatter screen so hopefully there is one for him.
Click to expand...


Mad Hatter is one of the sidequests
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
I'm not suggesting that Batman stops being Batman just because Joker is dead. I'm merely saying that he felt remorse at Joker's death because Joker gave him purpose in life. More than any other villain, Joker has been Batman's foil at every turn. After losing him, Batman felt an odd sense of remorse, a loss of purpose. That's all I'm saying.
Click to expand...
I disagree completely. If you look at every other incarnation of the character
if the joker was gone, Batman wouldn't flinch. In Kingdom Come, Batman doesn't mourn the Joker being gone. He HATES that the Joker even exists. Batman has almost killed him before. Under the Red Hood and Hush delve into that point.

The fact that the ending even gave you that notion shows how poor the script or the developers handled that entire scenario.

The Joker doesn't give Batman purpose, and he wouldn't feel remorse over the character being gone. That goes against practically every thing and every version of Batman that's been out there.
 
U

UltimaPooh

Member
RoninChaos said:
The fact that the ending even gave you that notion shows how poor the script or the developers handled that entire scenario.
Click to expand...

People will always develope their own interpretations this isn't the fault of the writers.
 
N

Norml

Member
Surprised at the scores from the bit I have played.

The game seems VERY average to me in everything except voice work,and much worse or at least not nearly as impressive as the first game.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
Secret_Riddle said:
I see what you're saying. It's almost like after
so many years of trying to stop him WHILE keeping him alive... he's somehow failed his own purpose. It's as if to say "no, in the end the only thing that was ever going to stop the Joker was his own death." It almost shows what a failure Batman's entire approach has been.

As I see it, that's the message Arkham City tries to leave you with. Batman creates these villains. They exist because of him, and Gotham's worse off because of it. At the end of the day, Batman doesn't really even stop Strange. Strange and Ras basically just fight it out themselves. If it had been up to Batman, the situation would have probably just escalated further. Immediately after, Batman has the opportunity to let Joker die, without raising a single finger. Joker DOES die, but had Batman had it his way..he would have saved him.

It's as if say, what good, if any, has Batman actually done? In a sense, I think that's what Strange wanted to prove.
Click to expand...

I agree.

And AC's Batman is quite different from the Batman Begins/Dark Knight Batman that had been discussed earlier. In Batman Begins, Batman tells Ra's, "I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you," right as he lets Ra's die. In contrast, AC's Batman tells Joker he would have saved him. Clearly Nolan has gone for a very dark Batman in his movies. Not Frank Miller dark, but not too far off. AC's Batman is different, a more pious Batman, if you will.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
RoninChaos said:
I disagree completely. If you look at every other incarnation of the character
if the joker was gone, Batman wouldn't flinch. In Kingdom Come, Batman doesn't mourn the Joker being gone. He HATES that the Joker even exists. Batman has almost killed him before. Under the Red Hood and Hush delve into that point.

The fact that the ending even gave you that notion shows how poor the script or the developers handled that entire scenario.

The Joker doesn't give Batman purpose, and he wouldn't feel remorse over the character being gone. That goes against practically every thing and every version of Batman that's been out there.
Click to expand...

Essentially you're arguing that Batman, in your opinion, would be willing to kill Joker. I think that kind of goes against everything we know about Batman; it's certainly against the version of Batman Rocksteady/Paul Dini have created. I guess you can disagree with the characterization of Batman in AC, but you certainly can't disagree with the fact that he was willing to save Joker. When he wasn't able to, and Joker died, Batman felt remorse. That's what I clearly got from the ending. If you really needed more validation, the Joker's song during the credits was evidence.

Disagree with how they wrote it if you want, but that shouldn't cloud the interpretation of the scene.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
Essentially you're arguing that Batman, in your opinion, would be willing to kill Joker. I think that kind of goes against everything we know about Batman; it's certainly against the version of Batman Rocksteady/Paul Dini have created. I guess you can disagree with the characterization of Batman in AC, but you certainly can't disagree with the fact that he was willing to save Joker. When he wasn't able to, and Joker died, Batman felt remorse. That's what I clearly got from the ending. If you really needed more validation, the Joker's song during the credits was evidence.

Disagree with how they wrote it if you want, but that shouldn't cloud the interpretation of the scene.
Click to expand...
Of course he's willing. Have you kept up with ANYTHING about the character in the last 10 years? The difference is he WON'T do it or he's no different than any of his villains.

But that's not my original point. My point was there is a problem with the story telling. We can disagree on the finer points, but that specific situation was INSANELY out of character for Batman.

Edit, also, if we were going to go with the logic of the character from the Dark Knight, Batman saying "I don't have to save you" might as well be concidered leaving some one to die, which Batman in every other fictional instance, wouldn't do. If you ever read Knightfall and Knight Quest, when Batman came back, a large part of the reason he did was because Jean Paul Valley let some one die.

So, again, Batman is a guy who doesn't want to see anybody die, why on EARTH would he
go chasing after two people when hundreds are having missiles shot at them?
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
RoninChaos said:
Of course he's willing. Have you kept up with ANYTHING about the character in the last 10 years? The difference is he WON'T do it or he's no different than any of his villains.
Click to expand...

[sarcasm] Ah, yes. He's willing to, but he won't. Yes, that makes SOOOOO much sense... [/sarcasm]

If he won't, then he's not willing to. Fail.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
[sarcasm] Ah, yes. He's willing to, but he won't. Yes, that makes SOOOOO much sense... [/sarcasm]

If he won't, then he's not willing to. Fail.
Click to expand...
Don't be an ass. Multiple writers have shown that he's willing. The beliefs he has stop him. He won't end up doing the same thing that took his parents from him even if he wants to, and even if it would make his life easier.

How are you going to sit here and argue impulse and the things that make one human but you don't understand the basic distinction from desire and action?
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
RoninChaos said:
Don't be an ass. Multiple writers have shown that he's willing. The beliefs he has stop him. How are you going to sit here and argue impulse and the things that make one human but you don't understand the basic distinction from desire and action?
Click to expand...

I just don't understand how you arrive at "he's willing" if he won't do it? If his beliefs stop him, then he's not willing. It's just nonsensical to say otherwise.
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
Riddler trophy help needed.

There's a stack of 6 question marks, in two rows.

There's a limited time to hit all of them before they all light up.

They're divided by wire-fencing which makes quick-batarang shots impossible.

So I can use the explosive goo to hit three of them, but how do I hit the other three in time to unlock the trophy?
 
L

LiK

Member
The Antitype said:
Riddler trophy help needed.

There's a stack of 6 question marks, in two rows.

There's a limited time to hit all of them before they all light up.

They're divided by wire-fencing which makes quick-batarang shots impossible.

So I can use the explosive goo to hit three of them, but how do I hit the other three in time to unlock the trophy?
Click to expand...
Hit other three with quick batarangs
 
T

tsigo

Member
Explosive gel the bottom three, get on the building ledge facing the top 3, look down and batarang/remote electrical charge the top 3.
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
LiK said:
Hit other three with quick batarangs
Click to expand...

Thanks.

Now what about this trophy, that's connected to a single question mark up on the wall. But when I step on the pad, instead of lighting up the question mark, it lights up a white arrow pointing up at the question-mark.

What the heck?
 
Scapegoat

Scapegoat

Member
The Antitype said:
Thanks.

Now what about this trophy, that's connected to a single question mark up on the wall. But when I step on the pad, instead of lighting up the question mark, it lights up a white arrow pointing up at the question-mark.

What the heck?
Click to expand...
Think of the "test of strength" at a carnival where you have to hit the button as hard as you can ;).

Edit: drat
 
B

bodyofanamerican

Member
The Antitype said:
Thanks.

Now what about this trophy, that's connected to a single question mark up on the wall. But when I step on the pad, instead of lighting up the question mark, it lights up a white arrow pointing up at the question-mark.

What the heck?
Click to expand...
It's like a hammer/bell carnival challenge.

Find a nearby place to divebomb onto and detonate a shockwave on the switch.

edit: jesus christ, gaf.
 
R

RoninChaos

Member
TangoAlphaLima said:
I just don't understand how you arrive at "he's willing" if he won't do it? If his beliefs stop him, then he's not willing. It's just nonsensical to say otherwise.
Click to expand...
You and I can continue to argue in the other thread.
 
T

The Antitype

Banned
Scapegoat said:
Think of the "test of strength" at a carnival where you have to hit the button as hard as you can ;).

Edit: drat
Click to expand...

Ok cool.

Now I can get it to light up all the arrows, but not the question mark. Just gotta find a higher place to dive-bomb from I guess?
 
L

LiK

Member
Lionel Mandrake said:
Oh man, I didn't know you could do that. Where is his place again?
Click to expand...
I don't remember but you can find him again cuz one of them is the Riddler Riddles location. It's the
Alice in Wonderland book
 
D

Doomrider

Member
Lionel Mandrake said:
Oh man, I didn't know you could do that. Where is his place again?
Click to expand...
I remember using Ivy's little store as a reference point, in Park Row. Search a bit in that area, in the alleys to the right of the store.

I could be wrong about this, though.
 
G

GQman2121

Banned
Doomrider said:
I felt sorry for him =( Really good voice acting.
Click to expand...
Yep, really good. And I too was somewhat remorseful to him when I revisited the location. It was a nice surprise because I didn't remember the door. I was like, what's this door lead too.....?
 
O

overcast

Member
Mad hatters place is near the courthouse. On one of the roofs you can see a little table with tea on it.

Interesting debate you guys had there. Except it unexpectedly ruined the dark knight returns :[
 
D

Daft_Cat

Member
overcast said:
Mad hatters place is near the courthouse. On one of the roofs you can see a little table with tea on it.

Interesting debate you guys had there. Except it unexpectedly ruined the dark knight returns :[
Click to expand...

Batman fans will murder me for this but..It's not a personal favourite of mine.

*hides*

No, but seriously. Outside of Year One, I'm not a huge fan of Miller's contributions to Batman. The Dark Knight Returns has a good story, but the art constantly takes me out of it. It's just unappealing. Maybe it's because I'm only 21 so I'm used to a more literal, less impressionistic, art style in my comics. In general though, his contributions range from Great: Year one, Good to mediocre: The Dark Knight Returns and its sequel, and Bad: All Star Batman and Robin.

The latter left such a bad taste in my mouth that it lessened my appreciation for Loeb's Dark Victory and The Long Halloween (which are set in Miller's canon, iirc) and that line of continuity as a whole.

/rant

You guys can ask Bats himself if you want. He's on a coffee break right now..right over there <<
 
G

Grisby

Member
No achievement for collecting all riddler trophies? :(. Kind of a silly thing I suppose but 440 is a lot.

I've only got one left too, that damned catwoman combo one.
 
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