NekoFever
Member
Have you got the
Jack Ryder
-
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Batman: Arkham Knight |OT| Protect Gotham Racing
- Thread starter Ephemeris
- Start date
It's what a few of us have been discussing for a while now.
It isn't misleading to tell other users how a game fetl to play, it's actually incredibly valuable. Merely stating the objective, cold facts about a game isn't enough, things can add to more or less than their sum and this is where descriptions from user perspectives give us a sense of how it felt to play.
We don't need every single user to explain exactly why they felt the way they did.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Right, but, again, that's not what we're talking about ha ha. See above in my edit.
Butt_Sanchez
Banned
I might have a bugged game. I'm doing the
, so I get to one of the fire stations clearly marked on my map but the slot for the power winch is blocked off by some door/panel. Am I supposed to do something to get this thing to open and reveal the power winch, also the building isn't on fire but it is the building that shows up on the marker.
Firefly side missions
It's not what /you/ were talking about, but it's what the user I responded to and I have been discussing for some time. And the user I responded to presented the same line of thinking from our previous discussion, which makes my response perfectly on topic.
I wasn't responding to you, you can keep talking about what you want if you like.
That response is a perfectly reasonable starting point, if the other user wants clarification they can ask. The initial response doesn't need to be an essay detailing every x, y, and z.
The Batmobile is used "quite a bit". It's very prominent. Trying to argue that it isn't is pretty absurd.
Spring-Loaded
Member
No, I'm not. If your post is made from this perspective then you've missed the point.
Yes you are.
You constantly tell people their opinions are wrong because of "facts" when their opinions are subjective analysis based on how the game feels to play.
I think I've seen that problem.
Glide around the city looking for a fire station
on fire
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Give it a rest. Spring Loaded is on a mission to convince everyone that the batmobile is the greatest thing ever and that if you don't like "you're wrong" and "you're the problem".
He can't seem to grasp his head around the fact that some people just may not like it as much as he does. When in fact, many people actually hate it.
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
Are you okay?
Alienous responded to a statement I directed to him, Spring Loaded responded to his response to me and you in turn responded to that. I think you're getting lost in the shuffle here.
And you really need to stop moving the goal posts and back tracking. One minute you're all for expressing how posters can feel and the next you're okay if they don't.
You're wasting everyone's time here. You have a choice to be informative or not. Alienous was not asked for his feelings on the subject of the batmobile. To a question asking if the game was centered around it, he simply said "quite a bit" which is neither objectively or subjectively informative, AND is also misleading as the game isn't centered on a mechanic inserted for variety.
You and your juvenile posts, man. The game is the biggest launch of the year and you're asserting what the majority think without a survey to hang your assertion with a thread? Projecting your own mistake onto another poster is petty. You're doing the exact thing you accuse him of doing which is projecting a nonsense stat with no basis. If you have something to contribute, do it and argue your point. Don't shit on other posters here.
Admiral Woofington
Member
This is what the bat mobile does to us. We try to have a civil discussion but instead muscle memory makes us transform into tank mode
JohnnyFootball
GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Except that the batmobile absolutely is a critical and significant part of the game. It takes up a large portion of the game and many sections of the game require its use and mastery. There is absolutely no escaping and minimizing its use. I'd say a good 30% of the game involves the use of. That's not the majority of the time, but it is absolutely positively a significant amount of time and can easily be a deterrent for people who don't like it.
I would find it far more misleading to say that the batmobile time is very small and insignificant. But I wholeheartedly endorse the notion that the batmobile can suck and can seriously damper people's enthusiasm.
All this time I thought you were being serious, but just struggling to make your point.
Someone asking how much of the game is centred around the Batmobile, and me responding "quite a bit", is something you have an issue with. What?
Ugh, nevermind.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Show me where I've said someone was wrong for having an opinion, please.
Asking for specific examples of what someone's speaking about (rather than "this part was terrible compared to past games" and nothing more) and making suggestions as to how to beat a certain section of the game isn't telling people they're wrong.
Seems people often project their own experience with a game onto the game itself, and are unable to assess the elements of the game on their own. If I say "this game is great," it tells people nothing unless they know exactly what I think is great — even then, it's too vague to be of much use.
Asking people to provide something more isn't telling them they're wrong. You've taken this personally and can't see it as anything but a personal attack when I couldn't care less about how people feel about a given game without context.
^Another example of someone who can't hold a discussion.
I think this is what I did too lol
uncleniccius
Member
Well, the batmobile sections become longer and longer and in doing so become less and less fun. The story has dipped and honestly, that was what I was playing it for.
What a mess this thread is becoming. Let's just agree to take a vow of silence on the Batmobile, it is destroying us.
No, haha, don't worry about it. I was trying to make a point. My post was being sarcastic. But I do agree with you, that was my experience with the game too. It did pick up in the final hour or so for me, though.
No, haha, don't worry about it. I was trying to make a point. My post was being sarcastic. But I do agree with you, that was my experience with the game too. It did pick up in the final hour or so for me, though.
Spring-Loaded
Member
It's not the Batmobile, it's people who can't help but take posts — specifically about a video game — personally. What is the point of trying to reach an understanding when people who can't understand your posts reduce them to crap like "you're wrong for having an opinion"?
keltickennedy
Member
It's okay....there's a back-up.
No, as I wrote (if you cared to actually read it before replying) you'd see I mentioned that Spring's reasoning took seed from a previous discussion we were having, so I revived it as his current comment was covering the same point.
The conversation I started had nothing to do with your current focus.
It's not difficult.
You don't understand what moving the goalposts means.
No, but you are with all this pretentious, pedantic waffle... (I understand I'm now part of the problem, though... whoops)
Firstly, "quite a bit" is fine as the Batmobile is used "quite a bit". What would also be acceptable would be "it's very prominent", "it's used often", and so on.
If the user wants more detail, they're free to ask for more.
And secondly the game is centred around the use of the Batmobile, the tank sections may take up a smaller amount of actual game time, but the use of the BM for traversal, pursuit, riddle solving... the mechanic ics very much at the centre of the game.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Which you still completely, utterly misunderstood, but yeah, this is what happened.
----
A good compromise if people don't consider a spoiler would be to give a general number of segments that Bat-Tank is featured in.
Which does nothing to tell the user what the gamplay is like, if it's fun for the entirety of those segments. #we need the more descriptive, emotional responses too, and these are not always going to be laid out alongside perfect facts and figures.
This thread is for people to express themselves however they see fit. There are plenty of people doing that in detail, and plenty giving brief emotional responses.
An intelligent user will read the thread in its entirety and collate it all.
Trying to make everyone conform to this ridiculous standard is not only futile but extremely arrogant, and anyone who actually wants a balanced and informed opinion will read everything they can anyway.
Spring-Loaded
Member
You can also describe what the gameplay is like
Why is it ridiculous to say it's helpful to give reasoning and examples of how a game plays in addition to one's opinion? There are scores of people who aren't doing that, who reduce aspects they didn't enjoy to nothing.
Where are you getting this insane "you can't have this opinion" idea from my posts?
Did you find anywhere I said someone was wrong for having a certain opinion yet?
uncleniccius
Member
Meaningless.
"I used the Bat-Tank in 14 segments" doesn't really help at all. "The Bat-Tank sections got more tedious as the game got closer to the end" is a lot more useful, because at least it gives you a person's opinion. You might then ask "Was there any reason?" if you want to know more, and someone might elaborate "A lot of the depth to the gameplay can be chalked up to having more enemies thrown at you, with the game just sending more and more enemies at you to increase the challenge without really varying the threat".
Statistics just don't help a person understand the experience you had with something as much, and the experience you had with something might inform someone about the experience they might have ("Oh, I hate when other games do that" for example).
"I'm wondering about the Bat-Tank. What do people think about it?"
"You use it in 14 segments"
"... thanks?"
In fact, the other side missions take so little time that they almost feel like a waste of time.
There are what, three single chapter missions that are little more than boring wrap-ups to AA or AC stories? Some of them don't even have any gameplay to speak of. The worst kind of filler I've ever seen.
DrGonzo615
Banned
Thats not even remotely true....
But yea, this thread has totally derailed. It basically boils down to this: the batmobile isnt everybodies cup o tea. If you have a PS4 do a shareplay session and try it for yourself. Whether or not you like it will go a long way in determining how much batmobile is "too much".
You can also describe what the gameplay is like
Why is it ridiculous to say it's helpful to give reasoning and examples of how a game plays in addition to one's opinion? There are scores of people who aren't doing that, who reduce aspects they didn't enjoy to nothing.
That's how these threads are, not everyone has the time or inclination to give a details response, so lecturing people to apply that standard is ridiculous.
There have been numerous times you've told people their feeling like the Batmobile is used too often is of no use, and that only the facts matter.
It's absolutely true.
Detailed essay, snarky quick bite, series of numerous gifs, etc... within reason, of course, house rules etc... but that shouldn't need to be said for what I wrote to be understood, in context.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Like I said above, you don't only have to list the number of segments. You can do that, and say how many enemies there are on average, and — believe it or not — talk about the gameplay, whether the controls function as they should, whether it took you while to get a grasp of said controls, whether it accommodates multiple styles of play, and even your own 100% subjective opinion. The more nuance to a description, the better someone will be able to tell whether they'd enjoy it. You can say "there's too much _____" and leave it at that. You (not you in particular, just a general "you") can also tell people to "fuck off" in this thread if they have a different opinion from you, apparently. The latter is less helpful to others though, don't you think?
EDIT:
The reason I ask people about specifics is because sometimes — in this very thread, no less — people play a game a certain way and don't enjoy because of that. I've had similar experience with Arkham City, yet since that first playthrough, I've come to appreciate it far more than I did initially. Was my initial opinion valid? Sure. Was it also valid to say that spending more time with the game's systems and assessing each element of each game helped me have a much better time? Hell yes.
That doesn't mean I'm attacking people for having an opinion. I'm assuming people can recognize the difference between an attack and a discussion. I'm assuming a level of maturity and a lack of self-centeredness of the people here when I question the reasoning behind their opinions (when they don't provide said reasoning). Does that make sense?
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
No it's not. The site has standards that are laid out at a bare minimum and some of us are trying to ask that those of you giving answers to intelligent inquiring minds take an extra step and give intelligent responses in return rather than shitposting with "A LOT!" and "It's horrible!" which IS against TOS.
By continuously shifting the standards, we create a platform that does very little to help people looking for information seemingly to make informed decisions. This is not rocket science.
"Should I buy it?"
"Nah...Batmobile"
"What about it?"
"Quite a bit"
" oh okay cool"
edit: To Alienous' credit, he did suggest the person try renting it and judging for himself. Dismissing that point was unfair to him/her so apologies, Alienous.
Spring-Loaded
Member
No, actually. People can do that, and be reductive as much as they want. It just isn't helpful or conducive to discussion.
It's ridiculous for them to get indignant over someone saying it'd be better for everyone if they explained their perspective better, though.
Actually, this is exactly howevery single OT has ever worked on gaf.
Some people give well thought out, detailed responses, others post quick one liners, others post gifs, others post video links, some argue pedantic details, etc...
There is room for it all, and we're free to engage with the thread as we see fit as long as we don't break the house rules (If a specific post is problematic let the mods deal with it, it isn't your place to backseat).
Even the brief "quite a bit" style responses are useful when we look at the thread as a whole and collate it all.
You're more than free to ignore these responses or add your own more detailed essays to the mix. It's all good (within reason).
SomewhatGroovy
Banned
I'll drop it
You guys take it easy! See you around.
You guys take it easy! See you around.
I'll drop it
You guys take it easy! See you around.
In future, try not to lecture others about how they should post and just try to lead by example, it'll make for a much better environment for everyone.
Spring-Loaded
Member
If I'm "lecturing" it's because a select few people keep trying to assert I'm telling people "you're wrong for having an opinion" or I'm blindly defending the Batmobile or whatever, and I have to either let them perpetuate that misconception or try to straighten out the confusion.
And asking people put forth more effort in explaining their stance — something mods here frequently cite as a reason for when a thread gets locked — is not ridiculous. A seemingly baseless opinion really isn't that useful in the grand scheme — it would be useful coupled with some explanation and some willingness to discuss it though, right?
In future, try not to lecture others about how they should post and just try to lead by example, it'll make for a much better environment for everyone.
And if you could recognize the difference between a personal attack and attempt at discussion, that'd be great too
Right? Wouldn't you agree?
And while we're at it, what were your thoughts on the Batmobile? I don't remember what your experience with it was.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
You'd think these goons in the predator towers would wise up to me dropping explosive gels on fools I knock out before grappling away. But no! "ARE YOU OKAY?" and then boom! haha
Spring-Loaded
Member
Can you aim the projectile explosive gel? I never tried to or noticed an option for it outside of hand-to-hand fights. That quickfire change was the only thing I didn't like about the combat this time around.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
Yeah just equip it and if you aren't in front of a wall Bats will put it on the ground. I think one gel per NPC, I drop 2 if I've got time.
Edit : you are talking about projectile. I don't think so, I think it's like quickfiring in that it just hits the most logical target.
I tell you what Spring, let's leave it here for now. I'm sure we can all move forward with everything that's been discussed in mind. :3
I love the Batmobile, I think that not only is it flawlessly integrated as an overall mechanic (to the point that I'd have a hard time going back to City or Origins), but that its use throughout the campaign in all its modes is well balanced and perfectly paced (and yes, that includes Cobra and boss battles).
I think the game as whole is easily the best of the three, even if it isn't perfect...
I love the Batmobile, I think that not only is it flawlessly integrated as an overall mechanic (to the point that I'd have a hard time going back to City or Origins), but that its use throughout the campaign in all its modes is well balanced and perfectly paced (and yes, that includes Cobra and boss battles).
I think the game as whole is easily the best of the three, even if it isn't perfect...
DrGonzo615
Banned
Does the explosives count as a predator takedown for the "all predator takedown" trophy? I guess I must be missing some and I never really used the explosives in the game.
Spring-Loaded
Member
Yeah, I was talking about the projectile. Don't know whether it'd be that useful, but I figured/hoped if it was nerfed during combat, it could have some more functionality.
I really don't like how the thrown explosive gel makes enemies randomly attack while stunned it's harder to anticipate their attacks since they do them in random directions. It's like a less useful smoke bomb, in that the initial smoke bomb blast will outright stun some enemies preventing them from attacking.
RoninChaos
Member
Firefly sounds like Bill Hader with a southern accent.
I beat the game, enjoyed the experience, but have no desire to go back and do riddles and all that shit. I just don't have the time or the inclination.
I beat the game, enjoyed the experience, but have no desire to go back and do riddles and all that shit. I just don't have the time or the inclination.
Ephemeris
Member
Sometimes I dislike having you in my friends list. Wait till MGO though ; D
Permanently A
Junior Member
Just watched the Zero Punctuation for this game
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/10204-Batman-Arkham-Knight-Review
He makes a good point, why didn't Arkham Knight just toss some dudes into his unmanned drones?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/10204-Batman-Arkham-Knight-Review
He makes a good point, why didn't Arkham Knight just toss some dudes into his unmanned drones?
Spring-Loaded
Member
I was hoping for moments like that that force the player to approach tanks outside the Batmobile.
There was the
suicide vest
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
I wouldn't know, notifications aren't coming up for me on PC.
Wouldnt make any difference. Batman would just activate his shock canon that debilitates both the vechicle and the person inside. The fact that those are drones just means he can let loose.