Norse mythology worked in the MCU. I see no reason why Greek mythology can't work in these films.
As for Wonder Woman, she's basically the best fighter of the whole group.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Batman vs Superman: World's Finest Three-Year Wait
- Thread starter Marion Cobretti
- Start date
- Status
Norse mythology worked in the MCU. I see no reason why Greek mythology can't work in these films.
As for Wonder Woman, she's basically the best fighter of the whole group.
bigboss370
Member
where is this even coming from? After Superman and Flash everyone comes way way after in terms of power and capability.
like how in avengers everyone comes way after thor and hulk.
On a power scale, yes, that's true. As far as fighting capability Wonder Woman is usually regarded as DC's best combatant.
BadAss2961
Member
I love his Bruce Wayne
Looking for something more Jim Lee for Batman though
It might be the time for grey, maybe some blue as well. They should definitely go all crazy with the cape.
I can see them both working in a logical way, kryptonians landed 10,000 years ago, settled and formed what became ancient greece, greek mythology was built on stories of their powers and technology.
No, people are going to see this movie because they want to see Wonder Woman, not Watered Down Female Superman. The only people who wouldn't mind this is people who have no love for Wonder Woman herself, and if those are the people you're going to pander to, then you might as well not include WW at all.
And I hate the way Thor technologifies everything about his mythology and maintain it's one of the reasons he's not as well recieved as the other heroes. Mythology is awesome, there is no reason to try and scifi it up.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
I can understand where you're coming from. I was hugely pissed when Michael Bay announced that the TMNT would be aliens from another dimension in the his new movie. I think Darren Aronofsky's Batman movie sounded like shit because it didn't even seem like Batman. But can you really see magical elements working in the world set up by Man of Steel? Especially full-blown Greek gods, without offering a sci-fi explanation?
I didn't say it would make the movie better. I just think it would be a relatively painless way to make it "work" with general audiences. I don't see how giving WW a Kryptonian origin would be anything other than a different interpretation. Certainly no worse than the Joker killing Batman's parents, Spider-Man having organic webbing, Jarvis being a computer, or Asgard being an alien dimension. She could still be descended from the gods and drenched in Greek mythology. There would just be one or two lines of dialogue like Jimmy Olsen says, "So... Zeus... Poseidon... Those guys existed? And they were like Superman?"
It's just a quick way of making Wonder Woman's backstory fit within the world that has already been built.
But they still altered it so that Asgard is now just an alien dimension. I think that's been the case in the comics for awhile now too, but I've read some Silver Age Thor. He was a straight-up god in those. And it was altered over time to better fit the universe.
Fuck, you don't even have to make it concrete. Have Lois say something like, "Pfft. Ancient Greek gods? Give me a break." And Clark responds, "Any harder to believe than me?" And just imply the Kryptonian origin. Shit works man.
Maybe I'm wrong and magic can work in the Snyder-verse. I would just hate to see DC's potential brushed off by general audiences who don't buy it within the context. I think this is about as golden of an opportunity as you can get in Hollywood terms. It's an easy fix to a big problem, while still doing justice to the character. I like comic books. I like DC, and I don't like a lot of huge superfluous changes either, but sometimes a little leniency is needed.
Of course, I don't know how in the fuck they could do Captain Marvel without magic, so whatever. Maybe it would be best if they just held their breath and risked it all at the beginning.
Just_myles
Member
odiin said:
To even further, Marvel did the correct and predictable thing all fans who have even picked up a marvel comic know. Characters like the Hulk and Luke Cage are in essence a result of a scientist/government to recreate the Captain America. Originally this wasn't the case back in the 60s but, as time progressed the stories (Ultimate)were created to be just that, and that makes perfect sense.
Now as for the Asgardians same thing, a lot of the tech out there would obviously be Asgardian. No real need to go into that.
Like I said in my earlier post(they will go the Thor route with Magic being a super science), that is totally going to be the case as it makes the most sense with the MoSu. If you watch the movie again, they totally set the scenario up when the Jorell AI even explains to Clark how Kryptonians crossed the known universe to colonize planets. Didn't they(military scientist/star labs/Emil) say that the space ship that was in the Arctic was thousands of years old(Fact check me on that MoSGAF)?
I have a scenario, guess what wiped out the dinosaurs? The kryptonians that tried to colonize/terraform the earth and something went wrong driving them under the sea, really any kind of scenario that would predate mankind or the homo sapien(so many writing options). Prehistoric climate change anybody? Something, anything is better than just going totally left field.
Believe me, I want it to true to the source material but, it's way too late for that now and the rules for this universe as bad as they are, are established. Let's not try to ignore that.
evil solrac v3.0
Member
no, she's not. Shiva is. Bronze Tiger, Green Arrow (Connor Hawke) the White Monkey, King Snake, I could keep going all day but Wonder Woman is not in that league. she's good.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
It's about what works with the movie that's already been made. If they ignored MoS and started fresh, then maybe Wonder Woman talking to water nymphs and such would make sense (That's right, I read League of One, you motherfuckers, and a couple Azzarello issues too) but Man of Steel is our jumping off point.
Just_myles
Member
The Icon said:
She is a warrior and her strength and durability compliment her Amazonian fighting style.
There was even a JLA book where Batman was sparring with her while conducting an investigation via bluetooth(yes it happened).
She has also beaten Batman straight up but, that was due to her strength not fighting ability.
Her super strength/durability is her greatest asset. Oh and enchanted weapons since DC has an end all be all approach to magic.
Just_myles
Member
J10 said:
You are missing the point of what was just said. Within the context of those movies like The Avengers or even Harry Potter, start out that way and don't take any drastic turns in that regard. Imagine Harry Potter went the Thor route? See what I mean?
It'd be....potentially incredibly awesome?
One fanfic went out to science-ify HP and it's pretty damn well liked.
I fail to see how mixing genres is possibly a bad thing (so long as it's done right, of course, but that goes with playing a genre straight as well).
Just_myles
Member
I'm not saying genre mashing is wrong, essentially that's what these movies are. Again, what is being said that it is within the context of that Universe.
The context of the universe can be expanded to include wonder woman's origins as they ought to be, most easily with her own movie
BadAss2961
Member
I'm sure there's a place for magic in a world where Superman and his origin exists. I'd prefer Diana's origin to be one of mystery for this movie. Intentionally vague, only hinting at the big picture.
Eventually through a solo flick or official teamup movie, her origin could be told. One simple way to handle it would be to reveal Themyscira and other relevant elements of Greek mythology as a hidden plane on Earth that was opened after Zod's terraforming attempt... From there begins the story of Hippolyta holding a tournament of Amazons to find an ambassador to the outside world. Diana wins. Enter Wonder Woman.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Need magic? Here is some idiotic thought:
Yes?
One of the Greek's gods was outcasted and wandering around the universe, he/she then created the kryptonians so... he/she could have something worship him/her? That could mean Earth is the center of the universe...
Rafa=FedKilla
Banned
No o no no o o no no o no no no no no. Keep Wonder Woman origin intact.
mgarnica89
Member
Having wonder woman and aquaman connected is smart but not through krypton. I would have it that atlanteons and amazonians have met in the past. They are fully aware of the world outside there areas. They both took a vow of isolation from the outside worlds. As for there powers and abilities, i dont think they need to crazy in explaining everything. They just need to explain what they are capablevof doing.
if you want it to take it a step further. The kryptonians appearance and almost destroying earth, is exactly why both hidden races decide to appear.
if you want it to take it a step further. The kryptonians appearance and almost destroying earth, is exactly why both hidden races decide to appear.
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
That's what I'm trying to do. By having
the Kryptonians created by a magic force...
Considering the premise of MoS was "what would happen in real life if a superpowered alien came to earth" I think the audience is going to have a hard time buying that Kryptonians were created by Greek gods.
It would have to be a fairly earth shattered revelation in the story for that to take place based on the universe they've built thus far. The Greek Gods were Kryptonians however is a much easier leap to make to explain the Amazonian powers and wouldn't really bog down the story.
I think the world we live in the audience demands are bit more than "magic/gods did it"
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
yeah...they demand a biological being that gets ultra powers because he's near our sun...thats fucking magic too. What about superman ISNT magic? he's more magic than fucking Dr Fate. Im near the sun now i have super EVERYTHING. Yeah ok pal. The kryptonian tech didnt even help him one bit he just punched stuff. People are hung up on an Amazonian or pantheon showing up? Really? The fucking modern day myth .....old sci fi stories from the 30's...imagine that shit lol.
Lionel Mandrake
Member
And aliens isn't anything weirder than what Indiana Jones has dealt with before, but guess what? People flipped the fuck out because we suddenly shifted from fantasy to sci-fi. And that wasn't even close to as big of a leap as the Greek pantheon suddenly entering the Man of Steel universe.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
what does that have to do with the DC universe? This isnt some pulp action / explorer universe like indy was. This is the DC universe they have pantheons just as well as civilizations from other parts of space. After watching DragonBallZ of Steel , Amazons arent going to be a leap. They should just be true to the i guess New 52 at this point. They are going to do a flash movie so whats the big deal with getting wonder woman reigned in? How are you going to explain the flash in a reasonable way? the JLA are chock full of amazing tales of character origins. Everything we've said wouldnt work has worked, supposed low tier characters have humbled the higher tier characters, stories closer to the source material, obviously the most successful film versions, effort in making iconic looks translate to screen...instead of leather motorcycle gear...or painted on green fx, sells toys . Whats not to like. Pick a version of WW and role with the princess of power , armored up, lasso , bracers, mad fighting skills, brave as brave can be. I dont even know who is being appeased by saying oh look here's an origin that "sounds" possible cause its not magic...gee you're right at least with magic theres a magician, these dumbass psuedo science plots are just terrible.
Potential big-time spoiler.
Guy claims to have read script. Not sure if true, but food for thought anyway.
Guy claims to have read script. Not sure if true, but food for thought anyway.
Oh man......
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Maybe Superman left
Zod's body behind after he killed him?
I don't remember the details from the movie, but I don't remember them showing anything with Zod after the death scene.
I don't remember the details from the movie, but I don't remember them showing anything with Zod after the death scene.
SuperAndroid17
Member
Invited by his pal to read the script. Yeah... no
Zod's body. Given the main adversaries in MoS, I don't see them retreading essentially the same conflict again so soon.
I really don't either. Not unless it's to show off how Batman would beat a "superman".
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
isnt that...invulnerable though how they gonna get anything from it? They gonna need a kryptonite knife or something.
BlackNMild2k1
Member
Saliva from the tongue dangling out of Zods mouth?
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Don't forget Faora's knife... She must have dropped it, right? I don't think they would use it in this movie though.
Well, there was so much IHOP in MoS I wouldn't be surprised if the P'zone showed up in MoS2.
While I don't buy for a second that this guy actually read the script, that would be a good choice of secondary villain. Certainly preferable to Metallo.
Someone in the MoS thread suggested Luthor could do something with Zod's armor, break it down into Kryptonite. He shook it off in that LexCorp construction site.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Just bring back
Spring-Loaded
Member
Superman doesn't know how to fight. He just makes up for it by being so strong. Wonder Woman actually knows how to fight
Marion Cobretti
Member
Superman knows how to fight. He's got the Torquasm stuff, not to mention Batman taught him martial arts too.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
So what superman has cold breath, super speed that rivals the flash, thats kinda game over right there. Good fighting ability means nothing compared to that shit.
His speed is no where near Flash's.
Also, Superman regularly fights dudes just as or more powerful than he is. He wins just as often through cleverness and skill as he does through force of will and natural ability.
Yup, Kingdom Come and War on Crime were both ace
Just bring back
dem nails
Maninthemirror
Banned
Wtf
wtf
Wtf
Wtf
@leebyBADASS_: @DAlter007 any news on what the title of Batman vs Superman is gonna be? Justice League
Daniel Alter (@DAlter007) January 9, 2014
wtf
Wtf
Wtf
@leebyBADASS_: @DAlter007 any news on what the title of Batman vs Superman is gonna be? Justice League
Daniel Alter (@DAlter007) January 9, 2014
Is he producing BvS? IMDB shows nothing.
- Status