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BAYONETTA An Action Game by Hideki Kamiya |OT|

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D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
Draft said:
I was thinking the same thing, but then it occured to me: in the 5 hours I've been able to put into Bayonetta, I've probably seen more unique stuff in terms of levels, enemy designs and bosses than in the entirety of DMC4.

DMC4 is a pretty amazing looking game, but it also recycles levels, enemies and bosses like crazy. No doubt you can spend quite a bit more time tightening up the graphics on level 3 if it's also going to be levels 5 and 7.
Click to expand...
I don't think it comes down entirely to the re-use of assets. DMC4 has a smoother framerate, cleaner image quality and superior lighting on its side.

You're right, though, there is a lot of variety in Bayonetta, which is great.
 
B

badcrumble

Member
Draft said:
I was thinking the same thing, but then it occured to me: in the 5 hours I've been able to put into Bayonetta, I've probably seen more unique stuff in terms of levels, enemy designs and bosses than in the entirety of DMC4.

DMC4 is a pretty amazing looking game, but it also recycles levels, enemies and bosses like crazy. No doubt you can spend quite a bit more time tightening up the graphics on level 3 if it's also going to be levels 5 and 7.
Click to expand...
What's needed is for Bayonetta to have enough financial success for Platinum to retool things for an engine that runs at a perfect 60fps on both platforms in Bayonetta 2. Also a PC version for the first game, of course.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Baloonatic said:
Hard is kicking my arse :( Can't really get my head around the dodge offset thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah, dodge offset can be tough to get down at first since you have to remember what combo you're in the middle of and what point you're at in terms of the timing, all while dodging at the right time and in the most optimal direction. But once you get it down, man, you can do some beautiful shit.

I'm still going through Normal but apparently on Hard it becomes a lot more necessary to use dodge offset, and I think a lot of people just ignore it on Normal since you don't really need it then. I've been trying to use it to get some practice in.

Can't wait to unlock The Lost Chapter. Sounds very Bloody Palace. I want some Mission Mode-type DLC for this game. The combat makes me salivate and the enemy design is by far the best I've ever seen in the genre.
 
A

Augemitbutter

Member
i've replayed the
motorcycle
stage on hard just now. right after the
arranged afterburner
tune kicked in, i was immediately in heaven once again.

fuck the critics, it's a great time to be a gamer.
 
F

FlashbladeGAF

Member
LiK said:
Kinda annoying sometimes but it sorta forces you to not spam the dodge button, I guess. But I agree, I would like the option to turn off the beast mode if I want. Or can we?
Click to expand...


Haven't tried it yet, but I saw an option to turn off other techniques so it is a possibility
 
N

NonexistentK

Member
BriareosGAF said:
I had played the demo at E3 and of course again when it was publicly available and I was a lot more excited for the game then vs playing the retail copy for an hour last night. Pretty much just because the cutscenes are so awful, just relentlessly terrible in their presentation, and the first hour seems heavily tilted towards them. When you're left to just actual combat and playing the game it's really fun but every time it goes to cinematics it's like getting kicked in the nuts repeatedly with the failure of the Japanese market to keep pace with the modernization of Western gaming sensibilities as the demographic ages.
Click to expand...
well a- you can skip cut-scenes b- since this is a %100 pure hardcore action game, cut scenes are more like bonus content not fundamental part of the experience (just like ninja gaiden) c-this game is made by Japanese designers according to their tastes/abilities/preferences, not your thing fine, please just don't bring this "failure of the Japanese market to keep pace modernization of Western gaming.." stuff; being unconventional & over the top while remaining distinctly Japanese is game's intention not it's failure.
 
B

BeautifulMemory

Member
please remember that money don't grow on trees and budgeting is an issue, especially for an independent studio like Platinum Games.


There is a chance that I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure DMC had a bigger budget to meet all the "60fps" or whatnots than Bayonetta did.

Sounds obvious, but important to keep in mind.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
BeautifulMemory said:
please remember that money don't grow on trees and budgeting is an issue, especially for an independent studio like Platinum Games.


There is a chance that I might be wrong, but I am pretty sure DMC had a bigger budget to meet all the "60fps" or whatnots than Bayonetta did.

Sounds obvious, but important to keep in mind.
Click to expand...
I realize that, but I feel they could have made some cuts in other areas to meet the framerate requirements. They were pushing 60 fps as a big feature for this game and it isn't delivered all that well. I would rather have some of the fluff trimmed in order to meet that.
 
D

Draft

Member
dark10x said:
I don't think it comes down entirely to the re-use of assets. DMC4 has a smoother framerate, cleaner image quality and superior lighting on its side.

You're right, though, there is a lot of variety in Bayonetta, which is great.
Click to expand...
Not entirely, but development resources are finite and every man hour spent on a new enemy design, level or weapon is one that wasn't used to polish framerate or clean up textures.
 
J

JumpJeff84

Member
Is there a way to 'quick skip' cut scenes on the 360 version other than going to the pause menu? I always sit through them the first time, but when I replay levels I find skipping them makes the flow a whole lot better.
 
S

Scythesurge

Member
Finished ch 7 last night, and ch 6 was the first point in the game where I actually felt disappointed. It was just kind of a stale chapter that didn't build up to anything amazing like the rest of the game has been doing.
Cereza is cute, but the cut scenes were somewhat painful. The chase in the tunnel with the big guy (forget his name) was not very exciting and I couldn't help but think that Uncharted 2 had a similar type of section that was much better executed. Going through the portal wasn't an instant transition like it was earlier in the game. The joy dance off was...I don't know, and the fight afterwards was over like any other enemy (albeit with a cool torture attack).
Sorry for ranting about this one chapter, it really stood out to me while the rest of the game has been climactic so far.


Ch7 was great though.
Mario Galaxy boss fight!
 
J

JumpJeff84

Member
Man, on the level with the Burning City, chapter 2 I think...

The challenge level where you have to defeat all the enemies in a limited amount of time using only the Angel Arms? That was fucking fun.

I really, really love this game. It's now sitting up there with Ninja Gaiden as one of my two favorite action games ever I think.
 
J

JumpJeff84

Member
I liked DMC4, but I never finished it. For some reason I just lost interest when it switched over to Dante. Still a good game.

I agree though, Bayonetta is more fun.
 
B

BeautifulMemory

Member
dark10x said:
I realize that, but I feel they could have made some cuts in other areas to meet the framerate requirements. They were pushing 60 fps as a big feature for this game and it isn't delivered all that well. I would rather have some of the fluff trimmed in order to meet that.
Click to expand...


I think 60 fps is something that is quite difficult achieve so I tend to applaud the developers who can do it and not admonish the ones who don't. I personally also think it is quite unrealistic to expect a game to run smoothly at 60 fps, especially given the scope of Bayonetta and the amount of stuff (animation, textures, colors, etc. ) that is in it. Again, not to mention budget, resources, etc, which is all something I am pretty sure Capcom has more access than Platinum Game.

Also, yeah DMC4 ran 60 fps and the game looked great, but compare that to Bayonetta as whole---I can interact with way more enemies and environment in so many different ways than DMC4 ever allowed me to do. At this point, the content in DMC4 is almost child's play compared to Bayonetta, and I love the DMC franchise as much as anyone.

I say Team Little Angels did a very good job overall in producing this game.
 
L

LiK

Member
Darkman M said:
This game is 100x better then DMC4, DMC4 could run @ 1080p 4xAA @ 60fps and it wouldn't change my opinion.
Click to expand...
No backtracking through the entire game automatically makes it better than DMC4 ;D
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Draft said:
I was thinking the same thing, but then it occured to me: in the 5 hours I've been able to put into Bayonetta, I've probably seen more unique stuff in terms of levels, enemy designs and bosses than in the entirety of DMC4.

DMC4 is a pretty amazing looking game, but it also recycles levels, enemies and bosses like crazy. No doubt you can spend quite a bit more time tightening up the graphics on level 3 if it's also going to be levels 5 and 7.
Click to expand...
You know, I was thinking about the same thing. I think DMC4 looks a good deal better than Bayonetta and performs better, but I was trying to remember all the unique environments in DMC4 and I couldn't really think of that many. It's shorter in general than Bayonetta, and it's also about half the length of a "real" game because of all the recycling.

I have to add the usual caveats here of budget and "dmc4 sux" so I don't get mauled, but I'll repeat that I think this is one of the cheaper games Kamiya has produced. The half cutscenes alone are bizarre. They don't even look good--they should have used a 2D/comic art style instead of the "we put brown ass filter over practically still image."
 
F

Fixed2BeBroken

Member
FlashbladeGAF said:
Haven't tried it yet, but I saw an option to turn off other techniques so it is a possibility
Click to expand...

where?
ezekial45 said:
How do the do switch between the lighting and fire forms for the claws?
Click to expand...

do a circle with left stick and hit the y or b button (whichever hands or feet are equipping claws)
 
S

Scythesurge

Member
DMC4 had potential to be a good game, but to me it seemed rushed. Everyone has mentioned the re-use of areas/assets, but there was also some piss poor levels (I'm looking at you, chapter near the end of the game with that stupid dice roll board that I was stuck in for over an hour). Nero had the beginnings of being a cool character to play as but he was limited in the amount of weapons/techniques he could use. I guess the same goes for Dante, even though he had more than Nero, he just didn't have nearly as many options as DMC3.

Bayonetta is at least better in these areas (so far, I'm only up to Ch 7), and graphically Bayonetta has a lot to offer. Are the graphics pulled off flawlessly? No, but I've had a lot of moments where I was wowed. The general scope of the game feels like it was inspired by God of War with a Kamiya twist, which is simply fucking awesome.
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
Bayonetta's level design is also far more flamboyant than DMC4's comparatively drab castles and barren snowfields. Also: "Oh shit guys, our game is only 4 hours long! I know, let's make people go through it again backwards!"
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Fixed2BeBroken said:
where?
Click to expand...

Go into the codex where it has techniques and special techniques. Under the latter you can turn several of them on or off.

The codex is pretty cool, too. I like the mythology behind the enemies you face.
 
J

Johnlenham

Member
This game is just bonkers, the prologue alone was just a whole lot of WTF for me :lol Only picked it up as the demo was quite fun and i cost me £10 as I had £70 in vouchers (£40 on Darksiders aswell)
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
Scythesurge said:
DMC4 had potential to be a good game, but to me it seemed rushed. Everyone has mentioned the re-use of areas/assets, but there was also some piss poor levels (I'm looking at you, chapter near the end of the game with that stupid dice roll board that I was stuck in for over an hour).
Click to expand...

I feel bad for people that weren't reading the boards while playing this game, because Capcom did a fucking shit job on explaining what you're supposed to do in this room. You buster the die when the number you want is facing up. Then you get that number. Of course, they don't explain this, so for most people it is a game of random chance where the outcome you want is 1/6th likely. Totally ass design.

Bayonetta is at least better in these areas (so far, I'm only up to Ch 7), and graphically Bayonetta has a lot to offer. Are the graphics pulled off flawlessly? No, but I've had a lot of moments where I was wowed. The general scope of the game feels like it was inspired by God of War with a Kamiya twist, which is simply fucking awesome.
Click to expand...

So I think that the levels in Bayonetta are a lot more fun to play through, and I think their layouts are smarter and more creative, but I don't think the game does a particularly good job of actually linking all the levels. Not that it's important, but whatever.
 
M

mjc

Member
Finished it last night on normal, a majority of my chapter grades were stone :(

Great game though and the final few chapters are pretty incredible. I thought I had a decent grasp on the story too but as it neared the end all of it went out the window and I just couldn't understand it. My only real knocks against it was the relentless screen tearing (360 version) and the two chapters with
the motorcycle and rocket riding to the Isle
. I thought they were both too drawn out and messy to be held to the same greatness as the rest of the game.

9/10
 
R

Red Blaster

Member
So I went back and played the original DMC for kicks. Got damn, having jump on triangle, no controllable camera and tons of vestiges from Resident Evil (FIND THE RUSTY KEY) fucked me up.
 
D

Dina

Member
mjc said:
Finished it last night on normal, a majority of my chapter grades were stone :(
Click to expand...

I get this a lot too. Sucks btw. Refuse to play it below normal, but I keep dieing a few times per chapter, and I use about 2-3 health items per chapter. So I get like zero bonus money and all the extra money goes to restocking revive and healthitems.

Sucks, my last bought item (on ch 10/11 atm) was the witch time on hit accesory around chapter 4 or 5.
 
Z

Zuhzuhzombie!!

Member
Got it in the mail yesterday. Played about 45 minutes. Guess the auto save didn't kick in or something because the game started me back over at the prologue.

Enjoy it. For the most part. Appreciate that it gives you tons of combos and shit at the very very beginning of the game, however, it's kind of a "senses overload". Hard to get a grip on everything. I had just started using some combos to fling baddies into the air and finish them off with my guns before I quit.

The game was explaining things like Magic to me when I had to quit. Is Magic required for the bullet mode or whatever? Is Magic required to do the big finishers or the "punishment" type things? I had done one big finish that gave me the Im a Bi... I mean Witch achievement, but couldn't figure out how to do it a second time. Same thing with the punishment moves. I thought it was just a matter of getting close to the enemies, or waiting for them to be stunned.

My problem with this game (and Devil May Cry and other games similar like GoW) is that everything seems very random. There's a dozen enemies on screen and a dozen different button combinations to push, but it feels unfocused if I don't put my mind to making sure I do a juggle here, juggle there, break that combo to do some shootin, and then circle Y to do the bullet hell mode. Etc.

Again, I've spent very little time with the game. The only thing I played similar to it, recently, was Ninja Gaiden 2, when seemed slightly more focused when it comes to combat.

What's the counter on the right screen for?



Story wise I have absolutely no idea what's going on, and the comic book like still frames for the cut scenes doesn't really help me understand what at all is going on. No manual to read about the story either. Just something about hell and killing angels with the help of Joe Pesci.

There was a scene at the very beginning where Bayonetta was jumping around a bunch of falling debris. You know what I'm talking about. Why the game turned that into a cutscene instead of letting me play it is beyond me. Why the actual cutscenes in the game are just those comic book like still shots is also confusing.
 
Y

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
mjc said:
Finished it last night on normal, a majority of my chapter grades were stone :(

Great game though and the final few chapters are pretty incredible. I thought I had a decent grasp on the story too but as it neared the end all of it went out the window and I just couldn't understand it. My only real knocks against it was the relentless screen tearing (360 version) and the two chapters with
the motorcycle and rocket riding to the Isle
. I thought they were both too drawn out and messy to be held to the same greatness as the rest of the game.

9/10
Click to expand...
What sucks is that verse 3 in ch 14 is SO AWESOME and I don't think you can play just a verse. You have to play the whole chapter.
 
L

LiK

Member
The levels designs are decent but it's really the boss battles that wowed me. So epic and grand. Love all the boss music too. Amirite?

This might also be the first game where I like beating up heaven's creatures :lol
 
L

LiK

Member
andymcc said:
you press the back/select button during the loading training screens.
Click to expand...
Or when you're in the shop, select Try for a technique and you can practice anything you want there.
 
Z

Zeliard

Member
Do enemies just get more health and do more damage on Hard mode, or do their tactics change (i.e. they become more aggressive)?
 
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