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Bernie or Busters are flocking Philly to protest DNC, city projecting 35-50k protesto

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Arguing with these people is just a waste of time, really. Forget about the SCOTUS. Forget about all the minority groups that are maliciously being persecuted. Forget a woman's right of choice.

In an election between George W Bush and Hilter, the answer is obvious.

You're right... it is a waste of time... Mostly because your view points are wrong or misguided on the subject.

Gay rights, abortion, campaign finance reform...these arent that important. I mean we can see what republicans are doing to those things on a state level so clearly they arent gonna do anything like that on a federal level even though they will have control of every branch of government.

So yeah no grave consequences...for you.

Again... this is about for the President of the United States. Not local or State positions. Also where and when in this thread did I say I would not vote for Hilary hm? I'm still undecided... Plenty of time between now and November.
 

Joey Fox

Self-Actualized Member
Yeah let's stick our heads in the sand and pretend this isn't an election between racism and liberalism. Neither candidate aligns with me 100% so fuck em all, right?

Either you vote for Hillary or you're okay with Donald Trump and every hateful thing he represents to be in charge of this country.

The election can just as easily be framed corruption vs. freedom. People can decide for themselves what is important to them, and what they believe these two candidates would do in office.
 
Well to perfectly honest you really don't get to be sad if Donald Trump wins if you decide to completely ignore the reality this is a binary choice. If that's worth the risk to some people than more power to them.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
The election can just as easily be framed corruption vs. freedom. People can decide for themselves what is important to them, and what they believe these two candidates would do in office.

Wait what?

Well to perfectly honest you really don't get to be sad if Donald Trump wins if you decide to completely ignore the reality this is a binary choice. If that's worth the risk to some people than more power to them.

Yeah, must be nice to have "no skin in the game".
 

Square2015

Member
AP: Thousands of pro-Sanders, anti-fracking marchers hit streets

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Thousands of demonstrators took to Philadelphia's sweltering streets Sunday, cheering, chanting and beating drums in the first major protests ahead of the Democratic National Convention, as the city wilted during a heat wave.

Throngs of Bernie Sanders supporters marched down a main thoroughfare to show their support of him and disdain for Hillary Clinton ahead of the convention.

Chanting "Hell No, DNC, we won't vote for Hillary" and "This is what democracy looks like," the marchers headed from City Hall down Broad Street, the main north-south artery that leads from the city center to the convention site about 4 miles away.

Though planned for months, Sunday's marches came as fractures appeared in the party that had been trying to display a show of unity in recent weeks. Debbie Wasserman Schultz resigned Sunday as Democratic Party chair over an email suggesting the DNC had played favorites for Clinton during the primary. It was a stunning leadership shakeup as party officials gather in Philadelphia to nominate Clinton.

The Democrats had been trying to avoid the divide that was apparent in Cleveland during the Republican National Convention last week. But the hacked emails, published by Wikileaks, further fired up Sanders supporters, who long accused the party of favoring Clinton despite officially being neutral.

Sanders had called for Wasserman Schultz's resignation, and said Sunday night she made the right decision for the party's future by resigning.

Darcy Samek, 54, traveled alone from Minneapolis to protest through the four-day convention. She said Wasserman Schultz has been a "miserable failure" who needed to be gone.

"Everyone kind of knew (the Democratic party was against Bernie Sanders), but that doesn't mean it will change now that it's proven. It's just more of the same," she said.

Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross and other officers walked alongside Sanders protesters. Ross said he liked what he saw Sunday: a peaceful protest.

The heat wave that descended on the city was showing no mercy, with temperatures reaching the high 90s and the city under an "excessive heat" warning by the National Weather Service. It's expected to peak Monday, the convention's first day, with temperatures possibly hitting 100 degrees, but feeling 108.

Earlier Sunday, thousands of clean energy activists jammed a downtown street in their mile-long march from City Hall to Independence Hall, near the Liberty Bell. They held anti-fracking and anti-pipeline signs, some with illustrations like a train surrounded by a fireball and the words "No Exploding Trains." Others held "Bernie or Bust" signs.

Sam Miller, 82, traveled from Erie, Pennsylvania, to join the march that stretched several blocks and across a wide street as temperatures in the city soared into the mid-90s. He said he was inspired because "fracking is invading Mother Earth."

Like in Cleveland, police were using bicycles as barricades along the streets, and volunteers were handing out water to marchers. Shoppers came out of stores to watch the march like a parade.

Chants of "Bernie! Bernie!" were met by counter echoes of "Hillary! Hillary!"

Some of the largest protests and demonstrations start about 4 miles north of the arena where the convention is being held. In Cleveland last week, most protests during the Republican National Convention were concentrated in a tight, 1.7-square mile zone downtown. A heavy police presence and fewer than expected protesters helped keep the calm. There were only about two dozen arrests and no significant injuries.

More than 5,000 delegates are among the 50,000 people set to attend the gathering at the Wells Fargo Center in South Philadelphia, which is expected to culminate with Clinton being named the party's official nominee for president.

The former secretary of state and first lady has named Sen. Tim Kaine of Virginia as her running mate.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cops-protesters-gear-hot-day-marches-ahead-dnc-140453702.html?ref=gs
 
This kind of narrative is precisely what puts people off from voting. If Hillary doesn't win without you guilting or forcing people into voting for her, then newsflash, in a democratic country another candidate got more votes.

The statement that if you don't vote for Hillary you are essentially killing gays and muslims is ridiculous. Blame Trump and his supporters if he is elected. Nothing is more undemocratic to me than forcing someone to vote for someone they DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR. Of course you'd want people to see that Hillary aligns more with their ideals than Trump and that her Supreme Court nominees would influence decisions for decades, but if people don't want to vote for her, FOH with that if you don't vote you're responsible and to blame and just as bad as Trump.

The question is not, who would be your ideal candidate.

The question is, who will become the next United States president.

There are only 2 answers, unfortunately. Hillary or Trump.

So yes, not voting is selfish and irresponsible, unless you have no regard for this country, and the minorities that will suffer due the new administration.

With Trump in the picture, we are facing an extreme situation. Have you not paid attention to the things being said at the GOP?
 
Please, do tell.

I mean, look at your own posts?

People are clearly in their right to abstain from voting for President or whatever they want to abstain from. It doesn't mean a vote for Trump. It doesn't mean they are fine with a Trump presidency. It means they are unhappy with all of their choices.
 

Zornack

Member
The election can just as easily be framed corruption vs. freedom. People can decide for themselves what is important to them, and what they believe these two candidates would do in office.

If you think Alex Jones is a great source of news then sure.

I like dealing with facts, not what some random people believe choose to believe. Donald Trump is a sexist, racist bigot. Either vote for Hillary or accept that you think a sexist, racist bigot should be in charge of the country.
 

The Adder

Banned
No it is not.

Stop trying to equate that.

It's eerily similar to Bush's "You're either with me or against me" rhetoric.

A liberal who would otherwise be voting Democrat not voting or voting 3rd party Clinton is a vote for Trump in the same way a conservative who would otherwise be voting Republican doing the same is a vote for Clinton.

It is taking a vote away from the only actual competition on the ticket.

A liberal voting for Trump is 2 votes for Trump, and ditto a conservative voting for Clinton.

The only vote that isn't a vote for the major party furthest from your views is voting the major party closest to your views OR if you've never voted for a major party (or voted in general) at all.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
You're right... it is a waste of time... Mostly because your view points are wrong or misguided on the subject.



Again... this is about for the President of the United States. Not local or State positions. Also where and when in this thread did I say I would not vote for Hilary hm? I'm still undecided... Plenty of time between now and November.

If they win the presidency, they get SCOTUS. At least 3 seats. And they already have most of the state govenrments and Congress. And the republican party is filled with tea party radicals that didnt exist under Bush. Thats a nightmare.

In politics you cant win if you dont play but you can still lose. Thats how it works in a first past the post system.
 

Risette

A Good Citizen
You're right... it is a waste of time... Mostly because your view points are wrong or misguided on the subject.



Again... this is about for the President of the United States. Not local or State positions. Also where and when in this thread did I say I would not vote for Hilary hm? I'm still undecided... Plenty of time between now and November.
The President of the United States, otherwise known as the person who appoints justices to the Supreme Court, who have been the ones to decide the future of all three issues in that post.
 

Madness

Member
I agree, but Trump is actually like regularly retweeting antisemites and neonazis these days so I feel like people need to vote against him or we're in trouble :(

I agree. But using the guilt narrative is the worst way. I think once the DNC happens, we see the strong lineup of supporters from Sanders, to the President and Vice President and many others, the independents and the centrists and even moderate republicans may be swayed. The numbers are still heavily stacked against Trump.

I also agree that people need to go out in droves and vote. This election too important not to. The biggest impact is the Supreme Court where the next president gets an immediate nominee. I think though you can rejuvenate the democratic party base without the same guilt or doom and gloom tactics. But to equate not voting for Hillary as saying you are essentially responsible for what happens is assigning blame that should rightly be placed at the feet of Trump supporters. What does it say about the US that someone who says the things Trump says is a Presidential candidate and has the potential to win. The majority of Sanders voters when the time comes will bite the bullet and vote Hillary. Because whether it is immigration reform, wall street reform, infrastrucutr investment, healthcare and education reform, fighting climate change Hillary aligns with Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders whereas Trump is almost a polar opposite.
 
If they win the presidency, they get SCOTUS. At least 3 seats. And they already have most of the state govenrments and Congress. And the republican party is filled with tea party radicals that didnt exist under Bush. Thats a nightmare.

I am aware of the SCOTUS seats.

It's like this thread doesn't think people who are undecided or considering to abstain don't know what's going on in the political landscape.

Cute. Perhaps you should follow your own advice.

I did. It's very unlikely Trump wins.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
This kind of narrative is precisely what puts people off from voting. If Hillary doesn't win without you guilting or forcing people into voting for her, then newsflash, in a democratic country another candidate got more votes.

The statement that if you don't vote for Hillary you are essentially killing gays and muslims is ridiculous. Blame Trump and his supporters if he is elected. Nothing is more undemocratic to me than forcing someone to vote for someone they DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR. Of course you'd want people to see that Hillary aligns more with their ideals than Trump and that her Supreme Court nominees would influence decisions for decades, but if people don't want to vote for her, FOH with that if you don't vote you're responsible and to blame and just as bad as Trump.

Then don't vote, or vote third party. You have that right, but others also have the right to point out the consequences of those actions or non-actions.

And they are correct in doing so.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
A liberal who would otherwise be voting Democrat not voting or voting 3rd party Clinton is a vote for Trump in the same way a conservative who would otherwise be voting Republican doing the same is a vote for Clinton.

It is taking a vote away from the only actual competition on the ticket.

A liberal voting for Trump is 2 votes for Trump, and ditto a conservative voting for Clinton.

The only vote that isn't a vote for the major party furthest from your views is voting the major party closest to your views OR if you've never voted for a major party (or voted in general) at all.

That's only true if both sides were similar levels of shit.

I am aware of the SCOTUS seats.

It's like this thread doesn't think people who are undecided or considering to abstain don't know what's going on in the political landscape.

It's quite clear that you don't, or you are ok with a Fascist Racist Xenophobic White Nationalist Con-Artist being president.
 
Then don't vote, or vote third party. You have that right, but others also have the right to point out the consequences of those actions or non-actions.

And they are correct in doing so.

But that's just like hypotheticals for you personally not voting.

Has there actually been any research on people abstaining that has led to a horrible person win the Presidency?

Doubt there is.

It's quite clear that you don't, or you are ok with a Fascist Racist Xenophobic White Nationalist Con-Artist being president.

Talking down to people really isn't constructive to debate.
 
BERNIE BUSTER: I support Bernie Sanders and everything he says!!

BERNIE: I implore you to vote Hillary Clinton this November and stop Donald Trump.

BERNIE BUSTER: lol no I'll just vote Jill Stein or write Radiohead lyrics all over the ballot or something
Yes, so much this. I mean... are people going to argue that Bernie Sanders himself is trying to guilt trip people tomorrow when he implores people to vote for Clinton and explains how there is absolutely no way we should take even the slightest risk of Trump winning as he is an unprecedentedly terrible and dangerous candidate? That Bernie himself isn't respecting their feelings and is being mean? And the same with all his surrogates like Jeff Weaver, Ben Jealous, Nina Turner, etc, who have all said the same thing today, explaining just how dangerous Trump is and how we can't let him win and must do everything we can to make sure that doesn't happen? Not just something, but everything, taking no chances. The man himself said this.

Those people, Bernie-or-Busters, aren't Bernie fans. They care more about this than Bernie Sanders, the man actually affected by this and named by these e-mails, and are pretending to be all offended on his behalf when the fact of the matter is Sanders himself isn't anywhere near that petty and understands what's at stake and why we need to come together.

I just don't get it. I just... don't.
 

HylianTom

Banned
This kind of narrative is precisely what puts people off from voting. If Hillary doesn't win without you guilting or forcing people into voting for her, then newsflash, in a democratic country another candidate got more votes.

The statement that if you don't vote for Hillary you are essentially killing gays and muslims is ridiculous. Blame Trump and his supporters if he is elected. Nothing is more undemocratic to me than forcing someone to vote for someone they DO NOT WANT TO VOTE FOR. Of course you'd want people to see that Hillary aligns more with their ideals than Trump and that her Supreme Court nominees would influence decisions for decades, but if people don't want to vote for her, FOH with that if you don't vote you're responsible and to blame and just as bad as Trump.

I'd argue that pointing-out the long-term consequences of a Trump presidency - especially as it applies to the long-term fate of Bernie's movement - a movement they claim to hold so near and dear - is a valid form of engagement.

This is cold logic, something I prefer to an emotional appeal. But if exposure to that logic makes people feel like they're being guilted or emotionally manipulated, that's on THEM.
 

Zornack

Member
I am aware of the SCOTUS seats.

It's like this thread doesn't think people who are undecided or considering to abstain don't know what's going on in the political landscape.



I did. It's very unlikely Trump wins.

You claim to know what's going on but think that a Trump presidency will bring no grave consequences.

That is an oxymoron.
 

pigeon

Banned
Again... That's not what is being said, and I'm not fine with that either.

That is the consequence of not voting -- you are making it that much more likely that Trump will win.

Either you are fine with that, or you don't understand cause and effect at like a 1st grade level. I guess I'm okay with either.

And again... for Dems... you all really like the "you're either with me or against me" line of thought.

Donald Trump is an existential threat to America. Sorry bout your desire for self-expression, but there are real issues at play here.

I believe people have a moral responsibility to resist white nationalism and fascism. I'm not going to apologize for holding that position.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
It's amazing to watch the left gradually adopt the same tactics that they once decried the right for using. This thread alone is a great example; people are trying to shame, insult, and guilt trip people into voting for Hillary. What's next? Threatening violence against people who aren't fully on board with Hillary?

There is no guilt tripping. It's a statement of fact. One of two candidates will win the Presidency in November. One is a racist, a xenophobe, a homophobe, a transphobe, a white nationalist, etc. etc. One is not. That's all it comes down to. Which one would you rather have be President?

If your answer is neither, it means you don't care if the guy drawing striking comparisons to Hitler wins. If that's how you feel, fine. Just be real about it.

Talking down to people really isn't constructive to debate.

I get the impression you're a Bernie supporter, so this post would be awfully hypocritical if you ever referred to people who weren't sold on him as low-information or any of those other similar labels. Not saying you did (I have no idea whether you did or not), more hoping that you didn't.
 

Suikoguy

I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
You act as if the handful of posters here who abstain from voting will lead to a Trump presidency as if it were a sure thing.

Only some seem to be willing to take that risk, why is that?
 

The Adder

Banned
That's only true if both sides were similar levels of shit.

Wait, what? That's how votes weigh regardless of shittiness.

Taking a stone from pile A and putting it in no pile or tossing it in the pond is like adding a stone to pile B. Ditto vice versa. Taking a stone from pile A and putting it in pile B is like putting 2 stones on pile B. Taking a stone that isn't in a pile and tossing it in the pond adds no stones to either pile.
 
That is the consequence of not voting -- you are making it that much more likely that Trump will win.

Either you are fine with that, or you don't understand cause and effect at like a 1st grade level. I guess I'm okay with either.

Probably not. Got any of that good research I asked for earlier?



Donald Trump is an existential threat to America. Sorry bout your desire for self-expression, but there are real issues at play here.

I believe people have a moral responsibility to resist white nationalism and fascism. I'm not going to apologize for holding that position.

It's your vote... you can do what you want with it. Who am I to tell you to do something with it that you don't want to?

Certainly you feel comfortable with telling people what to do with their votes... and if they don't align with yours... they are Racists, Neo-Nazis, Bigots.... No grey area for you.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
I agree. But using the guilt narrative is the worst way. I think once the DNC happens, we see the strong lineup of supporters from Sanders, to the President and Vice President and many others, the independents and the centrists and even moderate republicans may be swayed. The numbers are still heavily stacked against Trump.

I also agree that people need to go out in droves and vote. This election too important not to. The biggest impact is the Supreme Court where the next president gets an immediate nominee. I think though you can rejuvenate the democratic party base without the same guilt or doom and gloom tactics. But to equate not voting for Hillary as saying you are essentially responsible for what happens is assigning blame that should rightly be placed at the feet of Trump supporters. What does it say about the US that someone who says the things Trump says is a Presidential candidate and has the potential to win. The majority of Sanders voters when the time comes will bite the bullet and vote Hillary. Because whether it is immigration reform, wall street reform, infrastrucutr investment, healthcare and education reform, fighting climate change Hillary aligns with Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and Bernie Sanders whereas Trump is almost a polar opposite.

I think it says that our democracy is very uncompetitive and very inelastic. Either side is basically guaranteed 45% of the popular vote...and we fight over 3-4% in the middle. So a Trump-like figure would always have a shot. I agree that guilt is not the right path, but I think people are (reasonably) frustrated that some don't understand the very real damage certain minority groups will face if Trump wins, and they think someone who does not vote against him (or for the best option to make sure he does not become president) are functionally Trump supporters. Not sure I agree. I don't think people know how to sublimate this feeling into something concrete. Obviously a teaching moment is more appropriate than guilt. Frankly I think people are just tired of seeing the same argument over and over on the boards. People need to just ignore people whose opinions they can't handle!
 
But that's just like hypotheticals for you personally not voting.

Has there actually been any research on people abstaining that has led to a horrible person with win the Presidency?

Doubt there is.



Talking down to people really isn't constructive to debate.

It's part of what happened with Brexit (young people who are majority pro-remain didn't have good turnout), and that's been agreed to be a pretty horrific outcome by experts.

I understand voting for the lesser evil is a really unconvincing argument and it's one of the reasons why we're saddled with uninspired candidates like Hillary Clinton, and if Trump wins I don't think it's fair to hold non-voters accountable, but let's be realistic when we say that it's probably in your best interests to actively avoid a Trump presidency.
 
There is no guilt tripping. It's a statement of fact. One of two candidates will win the Presidency in November. One is a racist, a xenophobe, a homophobe, a transphobe, a white nationalist, etc. etc. One is not. That's all it comes down to. Which one would you rather have be President?

If your answer is neither, it means you don't care if the guy drawing striking comparisons to Hitler wins. If that's how you feel, fine. Just be real about it.
Exactly, and again, on top of all this, Bernie Sanders himself acknowledges this. The person they feel has been so wronged is able to be the bigger man, understand everything that's at stake, and put int behind him and do what needs to be done and is calling on his followers to do the same since he realizes that Trump would be an unprecedentedly terrible candidate for both the United States and the rest of the world. The man himself gets this, and has been calling on his followers to acknowledge that for quite some time now, despite all this being about him. Under that type of logic, is Sanders himself trying to guilt-trip his supporters? Are Jeff Weaver, Nina Turner, and Ben Jealous? No, he and his surrogates and former campaign staff simply acknowledge the facts and what's at stake and I hope his message and the speech he gives on Monday will resonate.
 

Striek

Member
I cringe every time someone here posts a list of reasons to vote Hillary with the subtle or (usually) not so subtle message being that you are racist, sexist, homophobic, entitled idiot etc. if you don't fall in line and ignore all issues someone may have with voting for a candidate like Hillary.

I cannot imagine it has any effect but to get peoples backs up, dig in their positions, and poison the well for further conversation. An army of online dweebs telling people to simply put all their grievances on the backburner so as to do the right thing by others could cost an important election.

Democrats and Hillary have to work hard to appeal to voters on the issues that are pressing in their own lives. Trump may be dangerous, he may be racist, homophobic, sexist, but they are not the reason he is the Republican candidate and you are a damn fool if you think they are. He touches on nerves, issues, economic, social, political that are overlooked and under-served by traditional politics and Hillary represents the rotten core of Capitol Hill for a lot of people. The sad thing is Trump doesn't even need, nor often presents, actual policies on these issue - at least if hes the only one shining a spotlight on them.

There is so much room to manoeuvre, to bring people on board with politics and policies that positively impact their own lives, to excite and inspire people... the fact the pervasive messaging of fear and doubt from the left mirrors the worst aspects of the right is such a damn shame.
 

Zornack

Member
Probably not. Got any of that good research I asked for earlier?





It's your vote... you can do what you want with it. Who am I to tell you to do something with it that you don't want to?

Certainly you feel comfortable with telling people what to do with their votes... and if they don't align with yours... they are Racists, Neo-Nazis, Bigots.... No grey area for you.

Are you at all aware of the current Republican party's platform?

Trump says we should ban Muslims and Pence says that women shouldn't serve in the military. What do you call these sorts of idea other than bigoted and sexist?
 

pigeon

Banned
Probably not. Got any of that good research I asked for earlier?

This is what I'm talking about with reference to cause and effect. You're asking for studies to show that people not voting for something might cause that thing to lose the election.

Frankly, I don't see why I should treat that request as genuine.

It's your vote... you can do what you want with it. Who am I to tell you to do something with it that you don't want to?

Somebody who is affected by the consequences of the election?

Certainly you feel comfortable with telling people what to do with their votes... and if they don't align with yours... they are Racists, Neo-Nazis, Bigots.... No grey area for you.

I mean, it's not my fault that a genuine Neo-Nazi is running for president as the leader of one of the parties and a bunch of people are like "I guess I'm okay with that." That's the choice they're making, not me.

If you think you can argue for a meaningful gray area where even though Trump is a Neo-Nazi there are some good reasons not to try to stop him from becoming President, I invite you to do so. "Eh, YOLO" is not a good start, though.
 
It's part of what happened with Brexit (young people who are majority pro-remain didn't have good turnout), and that's been agreed to be a pretty horrific outcome by experts.

I understand voting for the lesser evil is a really unconvincing argument and it's one of the reasons why we're saddled with uninspired candidates like Hillary Clinton, and if Trump wins I don't think it's fair to hold non-voters accountable, but let's be realistic when we say that it's probably in your best interests to actively avoid a Trump presidency.

Probably. I'm not 100% inclined to not vote for the President but I have been entertaining it for this round.

Like Y2Kev has said... the way to get Hilary votes is not to guilt people or start comparing them to a Trump supporter. They are disillusioned. If they're so passionate about their candidate... maybe they should explain to them why Hilary is better than some SCOTUS ultimatum.

This is what I'm talking about with reference to cause and effect. You're asking for studies to show that people not voting for something might cause that thing to lose the election.

Frankly, I don't see why I should treat that request as genuine.

I just want to know what you base your fears on.

I mean, it's not my fault that a genuine Neo-Nazi is running for president as the leader of one of the parties and a bunch of people are like "I guess I'm okay with that." That's the choice they're making, not me.

If you think you can argue for a meaningful gray area where even though Trump is a Neo-Nazi there are some good reasons not to try to stop him from becoming President, I invite you to do so. "Eh, YOLO" is not a good start, though.

Or I'm abstaining because I don't want either.
 

Jonm1010

Banned
But that's just like hypotheticals for you personally not voting.

Has there actually been any research on people abstaining that has led to a horrible person win the Presidency?

Doubt there is.



Talking down to people really isn't constructive to debate.
We literally just experienced the Brexit.

An outcome brought about in part from just that sort of apathy.

And yes, almost every political.scientist will tell you the major difference in when Republicans win vs Democrats is turnout. Apathy was the death bed on which 2010 happened. It will be the death bed of this election.

If you are a liberal.that chooses to abstain in a swing state, you deserve scorn.
 
If they're so passionate about their candidate... maybe they should explain to them why Hilary is better than some SCOTUS ultimatum.

we'd probably be more inclined to do this if y'all's type didn't wax poetic about how every policy position of hers that we post is something she's inevitably going to sell out on because of reasons

even things like health care reform where she has literally been consistent in expanding access and trying to lower costs for her entire political life, and where her policy proposals are genuinely, objectively good toward those ends
 

cdyhybrid

Member
He touches on nerves, issues, economic, social, political that are overlooked and under-served by traditional politics and Hillary represents the rotten core of Capitol Hill for a lot of people.

I don't know if I'd consider blaming Muslims, racial minorities, and immigrants for all your problems "touching on issues".

There is so much room to manoeuvre, to bring people on board with politics and policies that positively impact their own lives, to excite and inspire people... the fact the pervasive messaging of fear and doubt from the left mirrors the worst aspects of the right is such a damn shame.

If telling someone as vile as Trump to fuck off isn't exciting or inspiring enough, I frankly don't know what to tell you.

Probably. I'm not 100% inclined to not vote for the President but I have been entertaining it for this round.

Like Y2Kev has said... the way to get Hilary votes is not to guilt people or start comparing them to a Trump supporter. They are disillusioned. If they're so passionate about their candidate... maybe they should explain to them why Hilary is better than some SCOTUS ultimatum.



I just want to know what you base your fears on.



Or I'm abstaining because I don't want either.

Ultimatum? LMAO.

Control of arguably the most powerful branch of our federal government is just an ultimatum?
 

pigeon

Banned
Probably. I'm not 100% inclined to not vote for the President but I have been entertaining it for this round.

Like Y2Kev has said... the way to get Hilary votes is not to guilt people or start comparing them to a Trump supporter. They are disillusioned. If they're so passionate about their candidate... maybe they should explain to them why Hilary is better than some SCOTUS ultimatum.

"I guess I could be convinced to vote against Nazis if you did a really entertaining dance for me."
 
we'd probably be more inclined to do this if y'all's type didn't wax poetic about how every policy position of hers that we post is something she's inevitably going to sell out on because of reasons

even things like health care reform where she has literally been consistent in expanding access and trying to lower costs for her entire political life

I would say there is a decent amount of reasons to not trust Hilary. I guess the up hill battle would be proving she is trustworthy.

"I guess I could be convinced to vote against Nazis if you did a really entertaining dance for me."

I mean if you want to dance too it could certainly help.
 

megalowho

Member
Probably. I'm not 100% inclined to not vote for the President but I have been entertaining it for this round.

Like Y2Kev has said... they way to get Hilary votes is not to guilt people or start comparing them to a Trump supporter. They are disillusioned. If they're so passionate about their candidate... maybe they should explain to them why Hilary is better than some SCOTUS ultimatum.
Honestly, I don't think GAF or internet comments in general are a good way to evaluate the candidates if you're not ready at this point. There's too much emotion involved, too much sniping and guilting even if it's well intentioned.

Better to read their campaign positions and party platform from their sites, watch/read their speeches, the words of their allies and the resulting fact checking articles, and then take in the debates to see the contrast directly.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Generally when dealing with fascists, homophobes and racists there isnt a grey area. This is not a complicated discussion. Its morally black and white. Watching people try to wriggle around this is baffling. Watching them willing to not fight it is despairing.
 
Honestly, I don't think GAF or internet comments in general are a good way to evaluate the candidates if you're not ready at this point. There's too much emotion involved, too much sniping and guilting even if it's well intentioned.

Better to read their campaign positions and party platform from their sites, watch/read their speeches, the words of their allies and the resulting fact checking articles, and then take in the debates to see the contrast directly.

I agree. I would hope that when I asked for reasons to vote for Hilary... they would post an article or something else that comes off as non biased to prove she's the right choice... Not their own personal emotions on the matter.
 

Ponn

Banned
So you're not okay with Trump being elected, but you're not willing to do anything to stop him being elected.

It kind of sounds like you're okay with a white supremacist being elected.

A month or two ago I brought up Poligaf bullying people about third party voting and I got the usual "Wha-wha-what?! Poligaf would never be like that, why I never!" And right here, right now thats exactly what is going on. You want to educate a person voting for Trump on what they are actually voting for? Fine, go for it. When you start fear-mongering people into voting against their conscience for someone they don't fully believe in is where the line should be drawn. Yea, yea the stakes are high and all that, you know what, they always are. Four years from now its going to be "The stakes are to high, you have to let Hillary finish her 8 year term to really accomplish anything' then 8 years from now "You have to let Dem's retain their power, the stakes are to high to let a Republican win!'
 
I would say there is a decent amount of reasons to not trust Hilary. I guess the up hill battle would be proving she is trustworthy.

there's a decent amount of reasons to not trust her, i guess, on foreign policy.

i have yet to hear a reason not to trust her on domestic policy planks - from health care to LGBT rights - that wouldn't also tar obama if that reason was ever consistently applied.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
I agree. I would hope that when I asked for reasons to vote for Hilary... they would post an article or something else that comes off as non biased to prove she's the right choice... Not their own personal emotions on the matter.

People have done that over and over since the Democratic race got serious. Yet posters still ignore it.
 
I agree. I would hope that when I asked for reasons to vote for Hilary... they would post an article or something else that comes off as non biased to prove she's the right choice... Not their own personal emotions on the matter.

Or if you actually give a shit, you would, ya know, do it yourself? I even gave you a video.

Spoon-feeding adults.
 

Zornack

Member
maybe they should explain to them why Hilary is better than some SCOTUS ultimatum.

....what? Hillary is better because of the SCOTUS's current situation. If you are liberal then you want liberal justices to defend gay marriage, a woman's right to choose, election finance reform, etc. Hillary will appoint liberal justices.
 
like i can literally post a link to her issues page and explain in detail why a chosen few of those policies are objectively good and i'll just get a "well she won't do those", even and especially when there is literally no valid reason to think so. (health care, higher education, taxes, LGBT rights, even racial issues)

validity meaning "there is actual evidence that she's going to flip on that issue in a bad way given her voting record & organizing history"
 
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