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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC

I knew something was going to happen with Kim. Also with HHM tearing itself apart I wonder if and how both, Kim and HHM, will disappear by the end of BCS.

Also I just realized that Jim and Kims assistant is also Jims assistant in BB.

Jim becoming more of a pos every episode. I just understand how he can be like this, with a brother like Chuck and parents that never did anything wrong. But Jim, he was just born a pos and just can't get better. Giving up that gig at Davis and Main? WHY? What the fuck is wrong with this guy?

You already know why. He lives for the hustle. He cant play by the rules and so it just depressed him there. Jimmy has been a selfish hustler from day one. It quite clearly shows that. He just has charm and mostly targets people that are unlikable which convinces the viewer and himself that what he is doing is somehow fine. Walt in BB has a pretty similar character prograssion model.

You can even see Jimmy sometimes struggle with it when he pushes the boundries. Only a little but he shows signs of guilt that he just pushes away by reasoning it away. Like with Irene. He just convinces himself that they need the money now more than later and the wait would only benefit them slightly so really... REALLY he is doing them a favour. Him getting his money is just a nice silver lining... everyone wins right?.

Its very entertaining and well executed. You can tell because of how many people turn round and say they flipped on him now seeing him as bad when he was that way all along lol. It's also not like he is truly bad. He does have good in him. How much he cared for his brother etc. He also got betrayed himself. A lot of it is at the very least understandable to an extent even if it is morally wrong. Take his current possition as an example.

He got screwed over by his brother who he has taken care of despite knowing his illness was mental and not 'real'. All the events of the show so far have led him to where he is where is has no money, no way to make money from his trained career path and in desperate need to hold on to what he has so when this year is over he can go back to what he had set up for himself. He tried to make enough money selling his advertising but it just got harder and harder to the point he had to 'con' the two brothers to get the last of that cash. However him conning them felt OK because they were also screwing him.

So he is left with no options. He finds out that the Sand Piper case has already reached a potential settlement that easily pays back all these old people and then some but HHM arn't settling because they can get more. Mostly its more for them than the clients. so really him getting them to settle now serves everyone but HHM (the guys who screwed him). And even they get a lot of cash from it.

The whole show is ram packed full of people screwing people over and being arseholes. Irene and Kim are pretty much the only 2 decent people there. Irenes friends just decided to ignore her than mention that she should settle and talk it out. So they all acted like dicks as well.

What he did was harsh but its still within his character as they have built it up. After all his own law firm targets old people because he knows how to charm them not because he loves old people. How often does he roll his eyes once he pushes them out the door.

He is a conn man. Always has been and always will be.
 

_Rob_

Member
I really hope they don't kill off Kim. Her character is very well written and well acted, in fact I'd happily watch a Wexler spin-off.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I don't see Kim dying. I definitely think their relationship is going to fall apart, and that'll be the big arc of the show. But I bet she's still apart Better Call Saul until the end. The writers don't seem that opposed to having separate storylines that just barely interact. Jimmy/Kim/Hamilton/Chuck aren't deeply woven into the Mike/Gus/Hector/Nacho story. As much as Jimmy is the protagonist, I don't think they'd stop doing Kim stories even if she and Jimmy stopped talking.
 

Donos

Member
What Jimmy did to those old ladies is fucking shitty and Howard was absolutely right.

But they got the money, they otherwise would not have gotten or only a tiny fraction.
He would not have do anything like this if they wouldn't get something out of it. He is not a full ass/villian. Irene had to suffer a bit. Sure. But you dont know if she's back in the club after everybody gets their money.
 

j-wood

Member
But they got the money, they otherwise would not have gotten or only a tiny fraction.
He would not have do anything like this if they wouldn't get something out of it. He is not a full ass/villian. Irene had to suffer a bit. Sure. But you dont know if she's back in the club after everybody gets their money.

They got some money yeah. Howard could be right and they could possibly get alot more.

Jimmy wasn't doing it so they could get money right now. He was doing it so he could get money right now.
 

Kyzer

Banned
The car accident makes the possibility of that happening almost nil.

...not at all? That would be called foreshadowing. Obviously you cant have kim die as a foreshadowing of her dying, so she lived this time. Not saying shes necessarily gonna die (i do think she will) but this car accident is not determinant
 

Alpende

Member
But they got the money, they otherwise would not have gotten or only a tiny fraction.
He would not have do anything like this if they wouldn't get something out of it. He is not a full ass/villian. Irene had to suffer a bit. Sure. But you dont know if she's back in the club after everybody gets their money.

The way he did it was despicable. Knowing your friends will drop you because of money is something you won't forget. Her relationship with her friends is permanently damaged.
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
Damn that telegraphed Kim crash. Last seconds were tense.

Hamlin. Kim would be my girl but she seems to have a lot on her plate right now. Hamlin's got a whole firm. I know my case wouldn't be a priority with him like it would be with Kim but it seems like a safer bet
given the last episode's events.

Kim Wexler is a "Dude masquerading as a supermodel"?
...

Honestly, the issue seems easier. Kim has her own plotpoints, and moves them forward. Skyler did nothing but drag down and try to stop the plot.
Sure, she was morally right (Most of them time), but viewers don't care about right, they care about entertaining.
You know who's entertaining? Heisenberg. You know who's not? Skyler.

Much like that, Jimmy has never been good. Jimmy's emphatizable, not good. He does what he has to, which isn't always above board, but generally he does it to shitshow people who kind of deserve some retribution anyway, and so we don't give a shit. Irene hurts because she did nothing to deserve Jimmy pulling a fast one on her. (Well, besides dereliction of duty as class representative, since indeed she didn't even read the offer nor discuss it with the rest of class, but HHM all but tricked her into that one)
 
Jimmy and later Saul is Chaotic Neutral. He's only loyal to money and doesn't care who gets hard so long as it benefits him and he gets paid.
 
I don't see Kim dying. I definitely think their relationship is going to fall apart, and that'll be the big arc of the show. But I bet she's still apart Better Call Saul until the end. The writers don't seem that opposed to having separate storylines that just barely interact. Jimmy/Kim/Hamilton/Chuck aren't deeply woven into the Mike/Gus/Hector/Nacho story. As much as Jimmy is the protagonist, I don't think they'd stop doing Kim stories even if she and Jimmy stopped talking.
I agree that Jimmy's relationship with Kim and his brother are going to be the through-lines until the end of the show. But I don't really get what Jimmy gets out of his relationship with Kim. What does he like about her? Does he understand or respect what's good about her? Why does he want to be with her? What does she mean to him? Because he has been horribly cavalier about potentially ruining her career with his criminal acts to get her Mesa Verde. It's a very strange relationship.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Vince Gilligan in the last podcast mentioned his girlfriend's reaction to Kim's crash and she went "if you kill Kim I'll murder all of you".

He will kill her, that reaction showed him it would have a real impact. And she will die because of something Jimmy does.
 

kurahador

Member
Kim won't die. Because I think the present time Jiimmy will end with him stumbling upon her happily married, having successful career or both.
 
He will kill her, that reaction showed him it would have a real impact. And she will die because of something Jimmy does.

I'm guessing the fact that Francesca sticks with Jimmy after BCS makes that seem unlikely. She serves as a secretary for both Jimmy and Kim, and Kim much more so at the moment given that Jimmy's out of practice.

If Jimmy were even indirectly responsible for one of her two bosses dying, why on earth would she stick with him? I know she has a tougher edge by the time she's working under his Saul Goodman practice, but she's pretty much on the narrow in BCS.
 
If Kim died, I don't think Jimmy could become Saul and go on being happy at all.

There's no way Francesca would still work for him after that either.

Kim will walk away.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
I'm guessing the fact that Francesca sticks with Jimmy after BCS makes that seem unlikely. She serves as a secretary for both Jimmy and Kim, and Kim much more so at the moment given that Jimmy's out of practice.

If Jimmy were even indirectly responsible for one of her two bosses dying, why on earth would she stick with him? I know she has a tougher edge by the time she's working under his Saul Goodman practice, but she's pretty much on the narrow in BCS.

She doesn't have to know everything Jimmy does.
 

Grizzlyjin

Supersonic, idiotic, disconnecting, not respecting, who would really ever wanna go and top that
I agree that Jimmy's relationship with Kim and his brother are going to be the through-lines until the end of the show. But I don't really get what Jimmy gets out of his relationship with Kim. What does he like about her? Does he understand or respect what's good about her? Why does he want to be with her? What does she mean to him? Because he has been horribly cavalier about potentially ruining her career with his criminal acts to get her Mesa Verde. It's a very strange relationship.

Oh, it is and I'm sorta in love with how nebulous it can be at times. It came up on the podcast before and I think the answer was that different people on the writing team see the Jimmy & Kim relationship in different ways. It's weird, yet refreshing that they don't have this overtly romantic relationship. Sometimes I wonder if they're still together, and then we get a scene of them brushing their teeth together.
 
Oh, it is and I'm sorta in love with how nebulous it can be at times. It came up on the podcast before and I think the answer was that different people on the writing team see the Jimmy & Kim relationship in different ways. It's weird, yet refreshing that they don't have this overtly romantic relationship. Sometimes I wonder if they're still together, and then we get a scene of them brushing their teeth together.
Despite this show nominally being about Jimmy/Saul, I don't really get him either. He's sort of a manchild in a state of arrested development, mainly motivated by lolz and money, who is gradually becoming more bitter and corrupt. Jimmy loved his parents but was not very dutiful to them when they needed him. He admired Chuck and took care of him, but also had no qualms about doing criminal acts to steal a client from him. It's not clear if he has ever loved anyone he wasn't eventually willing to throw under a bus. I feel like I understand Chuck, Kim, Mike, (and Walt and Jesse) much better, by comparison. Is Jimmys arc going to culminate in him finally loving someone selflessly?
 

ultrazilla

Gold Member
Vince Gilligan in the last podcast mentioned his girlfriend's reaction to Kim's crash and she went "if you kill Kim I'll murder all of you".

Spit my coffee out reading this! Hahaha!

After Breaking Bad(by far my favorite show ever..binge watched all of it on Netflix in a week!) my wife and I were sad we'd never get a chance to re-visit that universe.

Better Call Saul has given us that chance again and it's been amazing. The writing, directing and acting have all been incredible and I love how we are learning about things that we eventually see in Breaking Bad. It really is ace story telling by Vince and company and they've hit a home run here.

Poor Kim. Watching this last night with my wife and boys, we were all saying "she's in over her head on this case" and sure enough....crashed her car. :(

Was that the mid season finale or are there more episodes? We had to head to bed right at the end.

It's Saulllllll Gooood Man!!!
 
Why did Jimmy work so hard in the mailroom at HHM? Why was he Charlie Hustle in that context, when there were no rule-breaking lolz to be had? Was it just to earn Chuck's respect? Why was Chuck's respect so important to him? I just don't feel like I have a handle on his motivations.
 
Why did Jimmy work so hard in the mailroom at HHM? Why was he Charlie Hustle in that context, when there were no rule-breaking lolz to be had? Was it just to earn Chuck's respect? Why was Chuck's respect so important to him? I just don't feel like I have a handle on his motivations.
Chuck got him off the hook for the whole "Chicago sunroof" debacle, the agreement with Chuck was he got him outta trouble but in exchange Jimmy has to go with Chuck to ABQ and lead a clean non-slippery life.
And I think for a while there when he was studying for his degree in law Jimmy believed he could stop slipping and actually be a better version of himself, ALAS...
 

Mudcrab

Member
But they got the money, they otherwise would not have gotten or only a tiny fraction.
He would not have do anything like this if they wouldn't get something out of it. He is not a full ass/villian.

lmao how could anyone possibly believe this? Saul wanted his payday now, what anyone else was getting didn't factor into it.

Irene had to suffer a bit. Sure. But you dont know if she's back in the club after everybody gets their money.

You also don't know if she's going to die alone with no friends! That's more than a little bit of suffering imo.
 

Donos

Member
They got some money yeah. Howard could be right and they could possibly get alot more.

Jimmy wasn't doing it so they could get money right now. He was doing it so he could get money right now.

Surely he did it also for his money. Kim and his life are under pressure because Jimmy has no money. That's why he wants to celebrate with Kim so bad at the end, the pressure got off his shoulders. He wants them both happy.

Would he make a con where the old ladies get nothing and get their social life destroyed? Don't think so. It was a win-win, with Irene's win in smaller letters then for the others :) .
 
- Gothamist: Vince Gilligan & Peter Gould Talk About The Tragedy Of 'Better Call Saul'
Heading into the finale, I want to start by asking a very general question, because it's something I've thought about a lot with Better Call Saul. Considering that we know that there is an inevitable destination for most of these characters that they are slowly being pulled towards, do you view this story as a tragedy?

Vince Gilligan: That's a great word. Do you want to start that or do you want me to?

Peter Gould: It's a big word. That's all I'm going to say.

Vince Gilligan: I do. I'd say there's a tragedy. I think you're right on the money, Ben. I didn't always. Peter and I took a walk today to talk about where things go next and it reminded me of walks we took three or four years ago at the end of Breaking Bad, four years ago I guess, when we talked about what a Better Call Saul spinoff series would look like. In the early days of that process we were talking about the possibility of a half hour comedy. We were talking about a great many different versions of this. Nowhere in all those miles and miles we walked around Burbank, California did we speak in terms of the show being a tragedy. Nowhere. The word tragedy ... Farce came up, comedy, half hour versus one hour, is it a live action Dr. Katz? Never during that process did I have an inkling that this show would turn out to be a tragedy. And it is. It's a tragedy. It took us the longest time to figure that out, which is what I love about this process of creating television versus writing a movie where it's much more closed-ended and finite.

I love the fact that this turned out to be a tragedy. When we started this process, we didn't know that the biggest, most heartbreaking antagonist to Jimmy McGill would be his own brother, Chuck. We didn't know any of these things. We went into this wanting to tell Saul Goodman's story, thinking that we liked Saul Goodman. That was one of the big impetuses for doing this. Little did I realize at that point how much I ultimately disliked Saul Goodman, certainly compared to Jimmy McGill, who we didn't even know back then. It's turned into a real tragedy, the fact that there's no escaping it. This guy has to become Saul Goodman. What did [Fargo and Legion showrunner] Noah Hawley say to you?

Peter Gould: I was at an event and I went up and I introduced myself to Noah Hawley because I'm a big Fargo fan.

Vince Gilligan: That's a great show.

Peter Gould: He said, "I've got a pitch for you." And I said, "Yeah, what's that?" In a nutshell, his pitch is that Jimmy McGill never becomes Saul Goodman, which if you think about it, is the most Fargo solution to the problem of all.

Vince Gilligan: Which is really attractive too. It's an attractive thought.

Peter Gould: The alternate universe version. I feel like it would be attractive in a way. For us in this particular setup it would be a cheat in a way that it wouldn't be a cheat for him to do on Fargo. I agree with so much, well all of what Vince said. We always knew that we liked Saul Goodman, but we didn't know we were going to love Jimmy McGill.

Vince Gilligan: To the point that now I dislike Saul Goodman.

Peter Gould: It's interesting. We had in episode nine this season probably the worst thing I've ever seen Jimmy do, the most Saul-ish thing. He ruins poor Mrs. Landry's life really just so he can get his money sooner. He is so despicable in that episode that I find it hard to watch, but it's also he's despicable in a fun way. It's a very different person from Jimmy McGill and yet that is Jimmy McGill. It's going to be interesting for us going forward when we do see Saul Goodman and we realize that, yes, that is Saul Goodman but it's also Jimmy McGill. It's evolved Jimmy McGill becomes Saul Goodman.

Having said all that, I don't think we ever thought of it as a tragedy but when Jimmy becomes Saul, I think the one ray of light is that maybe the story isn't over at that point. Maybe there's more to say about this man who started as Slippin' Jimmy and became Jimmy McGill and became Saul Goodman and eventually becomes Gene, the sad little Cinnabon manager. Maybe there's more to say about him. Maybe we haven't seen the end of the journey quite yet.
With those Gene scenes, do you treat them the way you did with the flash forward at the beginning of Breaking Bad season five? Was this an image where you're just kind of putting some track out and then you're going to figure it out later, or have you guys already planned out what is going on with Cinnabon Gene?

Vince Gilligan: You really have paid attention. In my mind it's a little of both. It's a little bit of a tightrope walk, as we used to do in Breaking Bad, which I always felt mixed emotions about. When we would do things on Breaking Bad like, the most egregious example was at the beginning of the final 16 episode run, we had Walter White buy an M60 machine gun. We had no idea what he needed it for. We had no idea who he was going to use it against. In my mind we're not there with Gene in Omaha because we have some ideas, but we may discard them along the way for better ideas if better ideas hopefully present themselves. I wouldn't say we're completely free climbing El Capitan without a safety rope, but there is...

It's sort of what I was talking about a little bit earlier. Kind of the great thing about doing this job is the unknown, is the challenge of figuring out where you're going. You're hiking across virgin territory. You're trying to make it to the North Pole except you don't know what's between you and there and maybe you'll wind up somewhere else instead. It's the challenge and the voyage of discovery. That sounds a little cheesy, but I kind of feel that way. You never quite know where you're going and once you learn to embrace that, which took me forever, the job becomes very exciting.

Peter Gould: It's interesting. Vince, you sound very upbeat about this now. I'm flashing back to the final couple of seasons of Breaking Bad in the writers room when I remember Vince saying, "Oh, if only we hadn't put that machine! Think of all the great things that we could have done if we didn't have to deal with that machine gun."

Vince Gilligan: I even pitched maybe it'll look like it was a dream. Maybe we'll ignore it and nobody will notice. I really did. Everybody looked me like I was insane, which I was. That was bad.

Peter Gould: I think the truth is that we've seen three of those flashback scenes, or flash-forward scenes I should say, to Omaha and each one lays down a little bit more of a marker. The second one we saw that Gene, when he carves that little piece of graffiti, he didn't carve, "JM was here." He carved, "SG was here." So Gene, as we see him in Omaha, is still thinking very much about Saul Goodman. Maybe there's more to say about that. I have to say I love those scenes in Omaha and I love the way Bob plays that character. He's so much the opposite of the ebullient, talkative Jimmy McGill. It's just fun to see this man who is so tamped down, but the flame still burns a little bit.

Vince Gilligan: There's a flicker, a little pilot light at least. There's a little pilot light that causes him to yell at some cops. I love those scenes too especially because we get to eat all the Cinnabons that we can throw into our mouths.
Now that you've got to this point, how long do you see the show going?

Vince Gilligan: Good question. It's definitely not over yet. I would say that with certainty. I'm not saying we have a pickup or anything like that. I'm saying in our sense.

Peter Gould: There's more story for sure.

Vince Gilligan: We have way more story. As to an exact number of episodes, as to exactly how much story we have left, that's harder to say. We're not just being coy when we say we're not sure as to the answer to that.

Peter Gould: It's limited, that's for sure. This is a story with a beginning, a middle and an end. I'm really proud of having been part of Breaking Bad, which of course I think Vince really stuck the landing with that show. I think our dream is that we can pull off the same trick with this show, but we're not quite there yet.

Well, like I said, it feels to me as viewer that episode five, "Chicanery," and everything this season has felt like a midpoint in this story. I'll be very curious to see where this all lands in a couple more seasons of story.

Vince Gilligan: Interesting. That's a very interesting ... That's something to talk about, you and me.

Peter Gould: Absolutely.

Vince Gilligan: That's an interesting observation. I like that.
More via the link.
 

RangerX

Banned
Man I don't think I've ever agreed with a creator so much. If I lose Jimmy McGill I'm going to be heartbroken. I actually hate Saul Goodman now.
 
- AMC Q&A: Patrick Fabian (Howard Hamlin)
Q: In Episode 9, Howard finally breaks. What was it like to finally stand up to Chuck? Is this about more than the insurance rates?

A: I think Howard already knows the answer. There’s a one in a million shot that Chuck might be able to say something at the table that’s going to make them say, “We’re wrong. It’s the same rate. Don’t worry about it.” So, I think I’m giving Chuck one more chance to hit a grand slam and as soon as it becomes apparent that that is not happening, then plan B is coming up with an exit strategy. It’s not a plan B of shoving him out the door, but it really is advice about letting Jimmy go. “You know what? Let’s not fight this. You had a great run and now you have plenty of time and money to go do this other thing you said you always wanted.” It’s hard to say to someone, “You’re done.” It’s breaking up. It’s saying, “I don’t love you anymore.” In this respect, I do love him. It’s the last offering I have available.

Q: How shocked is Hamlin when Chuck sues him?

A: Howard has run out of giving chances. He’s been pushed into a corner and there’s no way out. [Chuck] suing him is just the foulest thing in the world. It’s the ultimate betrayal.
- AMC Q&A: Laura Fraser (Lydia Rodarte-Quayle)
Q: What does Lydia make of Mike? Do you think she questions what Gus sees in him?

A: For some reason, she has this natural dislike for Mike and the feeling is mutual. It’s like his disgruntlement makes her feel defensive and it brings out her haughtiness, which then irritates him even more and it escalates the situation. I think she wonders why Gus would choose to involve Mike when Mike seemingly underestimates Gus, but maybe being underestimated gives Gus the upper hand. Perhaps that’s the way Gus likes it. It was strange to play such a different dynamic with Mike this time around, but it was definitely less stressful than previous scenes I’ve shot with Mike. There was no gun at my head, for example.

Q: What was it like to have the upper hand on Mike as opposed to the nervous/jittery interactions Lydia had with him on Breaking Bad?

A: It was unusual. It was almost like a new character in some ways. For me, a lot of Lydia was pent up in this idea that she’s very afraid, so to have her be more secure and confident was unusual territory, and I wasn’t sure where I was or what I was doing. It was fun to see his face when I was a bit cheeky to him as Lydia, so I did enjoy it.
More via the links.
 

Grinchy

Banned
They got some money yeah. Howard could be right and they could possibly get alot more.

Jimmy wasn't doing it so they could get money right now. He was doing it so he could get money right now.

True, Jimmy only cared about getting his money right now. But, it's also still true that Howard was willing to let the case go for years so that his company could extract a bigger payday.

The old women who don't really have many years left didn't understand their own financial position in all of it. Howard was taking advantage of them. Hell, some of them could have died before ever seeing a penny, and Howard wouldn't have cared. He just wanted to make sure his company maximized profits.

The only people who were innocent in all of it was the old ladies.
 

Veelk

Banned
But, it's also still true that Howard was willing to let the case go for years so that his company could extract a bigger payday.

The only source we have on that is Jimmy, whose creating an artificial narrative to justify getting his own payday.

I wouldn't take his word on how much the ladies are going to be paid out.
 
I love Vince Gilligan and Gould. I could watch and listen and read this creative team go over everything endlessly.
I would pay considerable amounts of money to have recordings of the writers' room for all of breaking bad and better call saul. Watching the creative process unfold would be amazing...
 

jett

D-Member
Man I saw that coming. Poor Kim. Although I don't get what angle is Vincent Gilligan playing with her.

Both McGills are huge pieces of shit. That poor ol' lady. Scumbag Jimmy more like. And Howard has actually been incredibly loyal Chuck all this time. These two bros are real fucks.
 

Vazduh

Member
Vince Gilligan in the last podcast mentioned his girlfriend's reaction to Kim's crash and she went "if you kill Kim I'll murder all of you".

He better listen to his lady!

aVDskRW.gif
 

Alienfan

Member
Am I the only one that didn't think Jimmy was a complete monster that episode? It's not like Irene won't make her friends back, it was petty "high school" drama, she'll patch things back up. HHM were waiting to get a more money, while many of the elderly would have received only a smidgen more (and that's if they were still living at that point) . Irene was being taken advantage of HHM, what Jimmy did, even if it was motivated by self interest, will still result in a lot more good than bad.
 

Donos

Member
Am I the only one that didn't think Jimmy was a complete monster that episode? It's not like Irene won't make her friends back, it was petty "high school" drama, she'll patch things back up. HHM were waiting to get a more money, while many of the elderly would have received only a smidgen more (and that's if they were still living at that point) . Irene was being taken advantage of HHM, what Jimmy did, even if it was motivated by self interest, will still result in a lot more good than bad.

I see it similar (like stated in my last posts).
 
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