Billy Crystal on Gay Characters on TV: "Dont abuse it and shove it in our face."
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Calamari41
41 > 38
To be fair he was explicitly asked about this, about how gay intimacy portrayals have changed since Soap.
CornBurrito
Member
No. But it is offensive when heterosexual people call it "shoving it down our throats" and bitch whenever it happens. Nobody is asking heterosexuals to get off to gay couples kissing or to actively seek it out.
Billy Crystal didn't say anything about the show "How to Get Away with Murder"
No but it is offensive to whine and complain about it when 1) it's rare enough as it is and 2) queer people have been forced to watch hetero people get it on since forever and yet we survive. You straights will be okay, I think.
Dead Prince
Banned
i like it when it's tasteful. not for the sake of having it in there.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You haven't seen true horror until you've seen Deb and Lundy in Dexter.
Note: This is the least offensive picture I could find.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
You haven't seen true horror until you've seen Deb and Lundy in Dexter.
Worse than any gay couple I could watch, and was probably even more tolerated.
DJ Crimson
Banned
Those poor heterosexuals, they might have to actually acknowledge gay relationships. Boohoo.
Dude was packin' some decent old man heat, assuming he wasn't wearing a prosthetic.You haven't seen true horror until you've seen Deb and Lundy in Dexter.
Note: This is the least offensive picture I could find.
If the idea of people being resistant to change is offensive to you, I suppose that's fair.
PIMPBYBLUD
Member
User 73706
Banned
...yeah?
You haven't seen true horror until you've seen Deb and Lundy in Dexter.
Note: This is the least offensive picture I could find.
Lundy seduced Deb with his love for cream cheese sandwiches.
Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Doesn't sound homophobic, at all.
He's just saying that this sort of thing shouldn't be forced upon us so heavily and be so overexposed.
That is not hateful, nor is it prejudiced.
I feel bad that people need to deride and debase Crystal just for expressing his opinion. Crystal is a legend in comedy and have done tons of work for charity with his Comic Relief series.
A person should not be maligned for expressing a opinion that isn't PC.
He's just saying that this sort of thing shouldn't be forced upon us so heavily and be so overexposed.
That is not hateful, nor is it prejudiced.
I feel bad that people need to deride and debase Crystal just for expressing his opinion. Crystal is a legend in comedy and have done tons of work for charity with his Comic Relief series.
A person should not be maligned for expressing a opinion that isn't PC.
MHWilliams
Member
Gay intimacy? Showing it isn't forcing it upon you, unless of course you feel straight intimacy is forced upon gay viewers.
Not hateful, but the very definition of prejudiced, going by your statement.
Pretty sure Billy Crystal is doing just fine.
CapNBritain
Member
Why is it offensive that people have preferences? Are you saying that it's wrong for anyone to have any preferences concerning who/what they want to see having sex?
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
i feel like he would be referring to modern family
BlueBadger
Banned
Homosexuality isn't an everyday thing?
I can only be gay on weekends, then? Or like.. Holidays?
No. :|
I can only be gay on weekends, then? Or like.. Holidays?
No. :|
RastaMentality
Banned
Most shows have sex scenes just for the sake of having sex scenes. People didn't really complain about heterosexual couples having constant pointless sex though.
BeatResetsTheWorld
Banned
That was my first thought. I read what he said and INSTANTLY thought Modern Family
Kind of unrelated but I know when watching Marco Polo I literally and seeing a naked girl flip around and do kung fu, that was the first time I asked myself "Why did she even take off her clothes? What was the point of that?"
You haven't seen true horror until you've seen Deb and Lundy in Dexter.
Note: This is the least offensive picture I could find.
oh god that was the grossest on screen romance I think I have ever seen.
It's okay if you prefer X, just don't pretend you're the only audience out there and accept that Y also exists and deserves to be portrayed. It's just that simple. You'll notice that sexual minorities don't complain about "forced" straight sex scenes, maybe some people could learn from that.
If Crystal is in fact actually talking about How to Get Away with Murder, then he should apologize immediately. All the characters have sex scenes and they're still network-tame compared to cable, but if he's alluding to Connor's gay sex scenes (which are kinda groundbreaking for broadcast networks) then boo on Crystal. It's nothing too far out from all the other 10pm straight sex scenes on broadcast networks. And general feedback from Connor's sex scenes is that they appreciate seeing a gay character on TV actually having sex scenes just like all the other characters on the show.
Pay closer attention. Connor Walsh borders on caricature. He's a bad stereotype on gay men who are sexual. He's the only character whose sexual alignment is his main and sole character trait. There's not much else underneath. He uses homosexuality as a bargaining chip and a way to get everything he needs. Nearly every episode, you could count on him doing something really gay to help crack the case. It was freaking comedy and quite terrible to be honest. I totally get what Billy Crystal is saying when I think of characters like Connor.
CapNBritain
Member
I definitely agree. It's just that several posters were saying that it was not okay to have a preference and intimating that it was homophobic. I wanted to get clarification on people's viewpoints on that.
Yeah, my roommate and I were sick of him by the end of the half season.
FortuneFaded
Member
Even God had 1 day of rest.
Connnor uses sex, not his sexuality. He could be an attractive straight guy going after nerdy girls and personal assistants to get ahead and his character would still be the same.
sonikokaruto
Banned
This was my take too.
So many shows are so eager to to rush to the gay parade that they write in caricatures instead of actual well written and deep characters.
DOWN
Banned
The flip side is that gay people would have little to watch if that's how character relatability worked.
You are making that same argument people make when they say they wouldn't relate well to a female lead or a minority lead character, so therefore the plethora of straight white male protagonists in games is natural. But all of those types they said are not relatable don't say that about straight white males. It's socialized discomfort.
They shouldn't have to give you a reason to show something other than the life of straight white males when depicting the same behaviors for characters with various diverse traits.
CapNBritain
Member
I feel like this discussion is hard to follow as it's kind of spread out across the entire topic. In an earlier post, I said the following:
So I'm not making the argument that you shouldn't have scenes that I have an immediate adverse reaction to. I'm just saying that there is that preference and visceral reaction. Some were arguing that this makes me and others like me (which I think is a lot of people?) homophobic or just wrong in general.
Like I said, we're just talking about preferences and immediate reactions. The context of the scene and how it progresses then adds layers of how I ultimately feel about it. I have seen sex scenes featuring old people or gay men many times, that I enjoyed because of how they fit into the plot or worked towards interesting characterizations, or whatever. But my initial reaction will still be one of distaste. And I don't think that's something to be judged. I think it's human.
biggersmaller
Banned
Gays in 90s popular culture should be put in a time capsule.
I mean, in a way, it sort of is forced upon gay viewers / asexual viewers. It's a scene that may elicit zero response from them if it is done purely for the sake of shock value.
He also did point out that he has a similar issue with heterosexual scenes as well. Different limits for him, but he also immediately pointed out that these were his personal tastes. You can absolutely not like sexuality in TV (hi, America!) and entertainment and not be prejudiced. Whether his personal distaste might be prejudice; I don't know. It could be tied specifically to gay scenes, or it could be that his distaste for sexuality in general has increased.
Also, this is a guy who got the excellence in media award from GLAAD in 2005 for his work with LGBT representation in the media. I'm more shocked at how one more or less out of context remark (before he clarified) apparently undoes a lifetime of actual work & actions. (http://www.playbill.com/news/articl...o-honor-billy-crystal-and-alan-cumming-124912)
But hey, don't let the facts get in the way of that #outrageoftheday.
User 73706
Banned
I just think the "lesbians are awesome, but guy-on-guy? not in my backyard!" mentality is really ridiculous.
uncredited male
Member
The allure of the splitting-the-atom chance of a threesome is strong.
Messofanego
Banned
Damn it, Billy Crystal. Thought you were better than this.
I thought he meant gay characters are being portrayed in very overt stereotypical ways that are off putting. But if he's against gay sexuality/intimacy but is okay with hetero, then he's an asshole :/
I could see someone feeling like gay characters aren't being written in ways that feels organic in some shows. But it can take time to get things right when you are breaking ground and integrating diversity into media that isn't always tolerant.
Edit: if you look at the history of film, token characters or characters used for comic relief are sometimes ways writers break ground as audiences aren't always tolerant and accepting. We can have a debate as to whether that is an acceptable way to get diverse characters introduced into a media where they aren't represented at all. Obviously the hope is that you get to a point where diverse characters become fully integrated and are written organically (without stereotypes and token characters). Equal representation etc. But its not easy breaking new ground when so many people are intolerant.
If you want to argue that characters could be written better, okay. But complaining about how things are forced on you and how pained you are because you see something you don't like. I dunno. I'm going to question that persons intentions and what they actually mean by what they are saying.
Gay characters/sexuality + intimacy = okay. Token gay characters and stereotypes = deserving of criticism.
But I think people should be mindful that it's very hard writing diverse characters in media that isn't very tolerant for audiences that also aren't tolerant. Expecting writers to get everything right when they are working with limitations, is kind of unfair. But yes, ultimately we want to get to a point where stereotypes aren't as common and gay characters are represented equally and written better. But it takes time.
I could see someone feeling like gay characters aren't being written in ways that feels organic in some shows. But it can take time to get things right when you are breaking ground and integrating diversity into media that isn't always tolerant.
Edit: if you look at the history of film, token characters or characters used for comic relief are sometimes ways writers break ground as audiences aren't always tolerant and accepting. We can have a debate as to whether that is an acceptable way to get diverse characters introduced into a media where they aren't represented at all. Obviously the hope is that you get to a point where diverse characters become fully integrated and are written organically (without stereotypes and token characters). Equal representation etc. But its not easy breaking new ground when so many people are intolerant.
If you want to argue that characters could be written better, okay. But complaining about how things are forced on you and how pained you are because you see something you don't like. I dunno. I'm going to question that persons intentions and what they actually mean by what they are saying.
Gay characters/sexuality + intimacy = okay. Token gay characters and stereotypes = deserving of criticism.
But I think people should be mindful that it's very hard writing diverse characters in media that isn't very tolerant for audiences that also aren't tolerant. Expecting writers to get everything right when they are working with limitations, is kind of unfair. But yes, ultimately we want to get to a point where stereotypes aren't as common and gay characters are represented equally and written better. But it takes time.
I kinda agree with him (I did not read the entire OP btw). I think he's trying to say that gay characters should be more "character who is gay" and less "token gay character."
And pretty much this
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
Yes, my thought exactly. There has been an issue of stereotyping gay characters, especially the effeminate. Conner from How to get away with Murder was refreshing in that sense.
I don't think people know the kind of limitations that are put on writers when it comes to writing diverse characters. That's not even getting into the network pushback. Or hell, the audience itself who aren't that open and are used to hetero perspectives.
It's really hard. Doesn't mean we can't be critical and hope to get better. But there needs to be some perspective.
Edit: I've worked in film and I've seen first hand how limiting it can be. Diverse characters aren't easy to write because of the limitations from the studios as well as audiences. I'm not 100% excusing bad writing or stereotypes. But I do think there has to be perspective on the situation.
It's really hard. Doesn't mean we can't be critical and hope to get better. But there needs to be some perspective.
Edit: I've worked in film and I've seen first hand how limiting it can be. Diverse characters aren't easy to write because of the limitations from the studios as well as audiences. I'm not 100% excusing bad writing or stereotypes. But I do think there has to be perspective on the situation.
terrisus
Member
Because there are totally no heterosexual characters whose sole purpose in a show/movie is to engage in heterosexual relationships. >.>
Yeah, that never happens... <.<
I mean, seriously, not only are the comments in the OP absurd/insulting, but many of the "Well, this is what I think he meant..." and "That isn't so bad..." types of comments in this thread are just showing a tremendous lack of awareness, and failing to see the double standards and hypocrisy.
Yeah, that never happens... <.<
I mean, seriously, not only are the comments in the OP absurd/insulting, but many of the "Well, this is what I think he meant..." and "That isn't so bad..." types of comments in this thread are just showing a tremendous lack of awareness, and failing to see the double standards and hypocrisy.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Not just ridiculous, but incredibly stupid. When someone says that they're basically saying its ok as long as they can jerk off to it.
terrisus
Member
Don't forget that it's:
"Two attractive women."
So if you're an unattractive woman, then you're just out of luck.
Exactly.
You haven't seen true horror until you've seen Deb and Lundy in Dexter.
Note: This is the least offensive picture I could find.
"You need to change your diap diaps you old fucker."
"Deb..............you can do that for me."
*Longwinded kissing
Fuck Dexter.
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