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Black Lives Matter shuts down a Bernie Sanders rally

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soleil

Banned
If you've noticed, I haven't posted a single thing about Bernie himself. Everything I've said has been about his supporters and yet Hillary keeps coming up as a response to it. Seems like deflecting to me.
Again, it's not deflecting when it's a valid point that is on-topic. And pointing out double standards is on-topic.
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/201...tivists-disrupt-bernie-sanders-speech-n406546

There's a video here I hadn't seen before from NBC news.

It's from when the protesters first took the stage from Sanders.

There's actually a moment at the very beginning when Sanders is actually trying to shake the woman's hand. I think my statement that Sanders is completely confused by the protesters may be right.
So... he DID try to engage them. And got criticized for not trying to engage them.
 

Indicate

Member
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.

He's been doing this. Did you not watch his rally a few hours ago? I had a thread about it.
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUBO5_QAd-c
@1:19:00 @1:28:00
"There is no president who will fight harder to end institutional racism in this country and to reform the broken criminal justice system"
 

Merc_

Member
Again, it's not deflecting when it's a valid point that is on-topic. And pointing out double standards is on-topic.

Oh, so is Hillary currently harassing people of twitter then? Because that's the only way she could have anything to do with what I've been talking about.
 

lednerg

Member
I don't give a shit about Hillary dude. I'm just laughing at Bernie's supporters and how they deflect every time they get called out on shitty behavior. I understand that everything is a Hillary related conspiracy to you though.

Bernie supporters are quite capable of calling each other out on their bullshit. This is also the age of social media, where anyone can claim to be a Bernie supporter, or a 12 y/o girl if they want. On Reddit, there were tons of overt racists attacking BLM supposedly on behalf of Bernie. Why am I to believe all those people were genuine Bernie supporters as opposed to practically any troll from the right paying attention to this? I'm sorry but any time I see obvious allies at war, I can't help but think they're being played.
 

linsivvi

Member
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.

How many times does this have to be posted in this thread until you stop ignoring it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vD9z3mM7o4&feature=youtu.be&t=1083

I even put the timestamp at the money shot you so desired even though it was a lengthy 8-9 minutes of promises and policies on criminal justice reform.

He said this last month, and he only made this speech in front of one of the biggest Civil Rights organizations. So does that not count now?
 

besada

Banned
Let's try to get back on topic. This isn't a general pro/anti Bernie thread, and it's definitely not a "let's troll people for fun" thread, so if those are the reason you're here, find somewhere else to be.

And everyone ought to consider trying to moderate their tendency to ascribe the faults of the few to the whole, whether that be the BLM or people who support Sanders.
 

gogosox82

Member
1) Slow to add a message versus being a proponent of the policies that served as a catalyst to the problems in the first place... one got called out and the other not.
2) The message has been added and I'm not seeing any change in his tone.

1) Well I'm not fan of Hilary myself so you'll get no argument from me on that front but Bernie was slow to address the issue and he's been criticized for it and rightly so. He could've been better and faster at addressing this and he wasn't for some reason.

2) I agree and I think people have been pleased with the progress. But activists are never happy and are always pushing for more change and Bernie should understand that since he was an activist in the 60's himself. The generally mindset of activists are "that's good, but now we need to do this, this, and this" so they are never satisfied. Again, Bernie should understand this since a) he used to be an activist himself in the 60's like I stated earlier, and b) he should be used to dealing with activists since he's been in public office for over 40 years.
 

Merc_

Member
Bernie supporters are quite capable of calling each other out on their bullshit. This is also the age of social media, where anyone can claim to be a Bernie supporter, or a 12 y/o girl if they want. On Reddit, there were tons of overt racists attacking BLM supposedly on behalf of Bernie. Why am I to believe all those people were genuine Bernie supporters as opposed to practically any troll from the right paying attention to this? I'm sorry but any time I see obvious allies at war, I can't help but think they're being played.

Because his supporters don't seem to have any problem doing this to BLM movement. I've been watching white liberals posting diet racist shit almost all day and have no reason not to think they're not being sincere. The articles certainly help drive that home.

EDIT: Got it Bes. I'll chill out a bit.
 

lednerg

Member
Because his supporters don't seem to have any problem doing this to BLM movement. I've been watching white liberals posting diet racist shit almost all day and have no reason not to think they're not being sincere. The articles certainly help drive that home.

EDIT: Got it Bes. I'll chill out a bit.

You (and I) are not reading the tens of thousands of opinions which make up the general consensus of Bernie and BLM supporters. We're mostly subjected to limited, outrageous bullshit, due to the current structure of social media. People are by and large far more moderate and boring than what we inevitably consume via the internet. We should definitely keep this in mind when making judgments about who believes in what. It's difficult, especially when I see something matching with a certain prejudice of mine, but it's important that I make the effort to see when I'm being manipulated to feel a certain way.
 
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.
He's already acknowledged BLM a few times in speeches. Was first candidate to talk about Sandra Bland among others.
 

soleil

Banned
1) Well I'm not fan of Hilary myself so you'll get no argument from me on that front but Bernie was slow to address the issue and he's been criticized for it and rightly so. He could've been better and faster at addressing this and he wasn't for some reason.

2) I agree and I think people have been pleased with the progress. But activists are never happy and are always pushing for more change and Bernie should understand that since he was an activist in the 60's himself. The generally mindset of activists are "that's good, but now we need to do this, this, and this" so they are never satisfied. Again, Bernie should understand this since a) he used to be an activist himself in the 60's like I stated earlier, and b) he should be used to dealing with activists since he's been in public office for over 40 years.
What do you mean he "should" understand it? He's already proven that he does understand it.
 

soleil

Banned
Oh, so is Hillary currently harassing people of twitter then? Because that's the only way she could have anything to do with what I've been talking about.
Bernie isn't harassing people on Twitter. If you mean his supporters, he can't control them.

We also don't know how Hillary's supporters would act if Hillary was treated the way Bernie was treated.
 

gogosox82

Member
What do you mean he "should" understand it? He's already proven that he does understand it.

He didn't really handle it well at Netroots Nation. He got incredibly flustered and then kind of walked off and cancelled all of his public speaking engagements including one with activists from BLM. That's sort of what I mean by not handling it well. He saw them protest during O'Malley's time up on stage so he had to have known that there was a good chance that they would to the same thing to him but he just looked caught off guard and flustered by what happened. Its just odd for a guy who'd been in public office for that long to react to protesters that poorly especially when he had to have known this was coming.

At this event, I don't see how he could've handled it any better seeing how it wasn't really his event and the protesters weren't really interested in having a dialogue.
 

samn

Member
Neat. O'Malley had this up at the end of July. Today is August 9th.

Oh yes 9 days is a huge difference.

Highly telling that you went straight to "his cop friends kept those loud blacks away" as opposed to "he learned from NetRoots, met with members of the community and made the appropriate changes to his platform posthaste".

Which is what Bernie has also done.
 
An Occupy Wall Street Facebook group I was on recently attempted to show solidarity with this girl and start a "#Feelthebullshit" anti-Sanders hashtag. What is wrong with these people?
 
So I went back and re-read through begining few pages. Some of the wording in the protest is pretty interesting in hindsight.


Marissa Jenae describes herself as a Palin supporter and "Radical Christian Mullatanist."

In light of that, her accusations make a lot of sense.


Typical right wing talking point of how progressives are the true racists.



How is a hardcore right wing christian activist representing BLM?
So GAF is getting worked up over a tea partiers comments?
 

Gattsu25

Banned
I was going to tell Bernie how racist this city is — with all of its progressives — but you’ve already done that for me. Thank you.
Typical right wing talking point of how progressives are the true racists.
If you think that only right wingers find racism within the progressive space then you got another thing coming.

We pretty much all agree that the republicans, and especially the tea partiers, have taken "gray" racism (diet racism) to untold new levels (in speeches and in public policy) but that doesn't mean that we don't see that there is shit laying about in our own frontyard.

A politically active black person commenting on there being racism amongst progressives is not the sure fire right-winger label you would hope it would be.
 

dave is ok

aztek is ok
People giving O'Malley and Hilary passes on racial issues and while tearing into Bernie makes me feel like people aren't properly researching these candidates.

If you hate Sanders for some other reason, fine, but at least be honest
 
The video from this is crigneworthy.

These people need to find a different candidate to interrupt, or a different way to get attention altogether (that also isn't blocking traffic).
 

RedShift

Member
I think these protesters are really lame, but the response on Reddit today has been pretty disgusting. Looks like their recent bannings haven't made much progress with pushing racists off the site :/
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
The video from this is crigneworthy.

These people need to find a different candidate to interrupt, or a different way to get attention altogether (that also isn't blocking traffic).

Blacks have always gotten better results from inconviencing people. Harder to ignore.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
I think these protesters are really lame, but the response on Reddit today has been pretty disgusting. Looks like their recent bannings haven't made much progress with pushing racists off the site :/

Because they just got rid of the subreddits. The rats fled the ship to the rest of the site.
 
I think these protesters are really lame, but the response on Reddit today has been pretty disgusting. Looks like their recent bannings haven't made much progress with pushing racists off the site :/
I love the sentiment of,

"Don't the BLM activists know that by being rude they're hurting their cause? People won't support your cause if they don't like you as people. Let's get some support for Bernie going by trolling the shit out of them!"
 

~Devil Trigger~

In favor of setting Muslim women on fire
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.

Post like this again confirms how cluelessness of politics and the political scene is SO fucking hurtful to or cause. Sanders have been addressing Black issues arguably longer then anyone in the field right now, and have articulated em even clearer the past few months.

You're barking at the wrong tree, preaching to the choir, sitting in the wrong lunch counter... why cant people get that.

Blacks have always gotten better results from inconviencing people. Harder to ignore.

"inconveniencing" the power structure and people that doing the oppressing
 

Interfectum

Member
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.

Speaking of clueless, have you even bothered to look up anything on Bernie Sanders? Or do you just parrot what Sanders detractors say.
 

werks

Banned
If you think that only right wingers find racism within the progressive space then you got another thing coming.

We pretty much all agree that the republicans, and especially the tea partiers, have taken "gray" racism (diet racism) to untold new levels (in speeches and in public policy) but that doesn't mean that we don't see that there is shit laying about in our own frontyard.

A politically active black person commenting on there being racism amongst progressives is not the sure fire right-winger label you would hope it would be.
You are right that's it's not. There are plenty of legitimate complaints about racism within progressive, the movement is no where near perfect when it comes to race issues. But it's hard to reconcile finding racism with sanders while supporting palin.
 
Blacks have always gotten better results from inconviencing people. Harder to ignore.

You don't think it's questionable that the candidate they happened to pick is the one that is likely to be more on their side than anybody else running for president right now?

And if you're just talking about blocking traffic, that is such a bullshit excuse. People never think about how dangerous it is to block traffic. What about emergencies? Imagine that your family was in a major car accident and taken to the hospital. You're trying to get there soon, as your daughter is in critical condition, but there is a political rally blocking the street.
 
I think the most prominent issue Sanders is campaigning on, income inequality, is the root cause of many of this country's problems.

Race relations in this nation need to be brought back to the discussion as it appears the newer generations lack of direct experience with racism has made them think that it is no longer a problem.

I'm not sure how the disruptive tactics will help the BLM cause as they appear to be targeting candidates that would be their best champions. At best they get publicity, at worst they trigger subconscious white biases that will play into racist rhetoric.
 

Boke1879

Member
Post like this again confirms how cluelessness of politics and the political scene is SO fucking hurtful to or cause. Sanders have been addressing Black issues arguably longer then anyone in the field right now, and have articulated em even clearer the past few months.

You're barking at the wrong tree, preaching to the choir, sitting in the wrong lunch counter... why cant people get that.



"inconveniencing" the power structure and people that doing the oppressing

I'll try to explain my perspective on things. Far too long the left has given nothing but lip service to the Black community and doing very little for us. My biggest disappointment in Barack is that he has done very little for the AA community and that's partially out own damn fault. We didn't push him enough.

Look at what constant pressure from the LGBT and latino communities have gotten them?

I personally think it all comes down to Bernie being the more accessible candidate. I just have this feeling that Hilary has some damn good security and her staff somewhat picks out her crowds. And I highly doubt this happens to someone in the GOP because quite frankly...We know their stance.

After the protest on Bernie he put up a "racial justice" platform point on his website and it went into detail. His press secretary spoke at length about BLM before his rally last night and at the start of it Bernie mentioned it as well.

It's visibility. this is good. I laugh at people there is a right time and place. Honestly tell that to the friends and families who have lost loved ones to police violence. If anything this is more about holding a candidate accountable instead of just being ok with lip service year after year.
 

Arkeband

Banned
So now that the event has passed and Bernie has acted on it in multiple ways, is there really anything else to discuss in this thread?

The 'terrible Sanders supporters' that numbered close to 40k last night seemed pretty on-board with his messaging that now includes basically the entirety of BLM's list of demands.
 
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.
Oh the irony
 

Kuga

Member
I think these protesters are really lame, but the response on Reddit today has been pretty disgusting. Looks like their recent bannings haven't made much progress with pushing racists off the site :/

Reddit's goal isn't to get rid of the racist users on their site. Just the opposite - management would rather keep them as users while burying offensive subreddits into obscurity so the average visitor doesn't see that content. One of the problems with this approach is that the troublesome user groups can and do post in other communities. So when "newsworthy" events or other excuses arise, they will come right back out of the woodwork. The problem isn't solved, it is just somewhat more hidden.

Internet forums and social media sites in general have huge accountability issues. GAF isn't immune either. Closed registration and strict moderation certainly help mitigate problems but there isn't significant real-life stigma or consequences for being an ass on the internet.
 

samn

Member
I just had a look through the comments on Reddit on their bernieforpresident subreddit, and they all seem pretty reasonable, overall supportive of Black Lives Matter.
 
I'd love to argue with facts and history, but if you're protesting Bernie Sanders on the basis of human rights and racial equality in America, there's not much to talk about. You can run down BLM's demands/agenda and verify Bernie's long standing support and action for each item line by line.

But somehow everyone's got it in their heads that the best isn't good enough. That instead of trying to have a discussion with the man personally at his hundreds of possible town halls or grassroots meetings, it's more productive to shun him out of his own rallies and shout him off the stage when he wants to address your message.

Well then you don't want to have a discussion. You don't care about his policies, you aren't trying to be engaged. You're just throwing a public fit. And I 100% understand the emotion behind it, I feel the injustice these people have been put through. But it's hard to get ahead when you're shooting yourself in the foot.
 
Sanders supporters are clueless, just like Sanders. Sanders marched with Dr. King, he should fucking know already what the black community wants and needs. All he has to fucking do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country, that's all he has to do. We know o'malley, and Hil-dog are corporate drones, no fucking shit but, at least they know how to target the black community. A man that marched with Dr. King should be held to a higher standard.

It seems like no matter what is said, what is posted, what is documented...this weak argument continues to be made. You say "all [Sanders] has to do is acknowledge BLM and their legitimate grievances against this country." He has. Multiple times. The youtube links are on every other page - the Urban League speech, the SCLC speech, stump speeches, statements, etc.

What tends to happen next is a variety of goal post moving. His platform doesn't address black issues, he hasn't told black people what he will do, etc. Yet even the most basic google search would show this argument isn't true either. He supports criminal justice reform - and unlike the other two candidates, he has always supported it. About a fourth of BLM's demands (as detailed on their website) are economic, and Sanders supports each of them, and always has. An increase to the minimum wage, decent housing, urban reinvestment, free or affordable access to college, etc.

Could Sanders be campaigning better? Sure. But I think it's pretty clear at this point that you cannot reach people who don't want to be reached. The sudden positive comments on Martin O'Malley's opportunistic leftward lurch on criminal justice reform tells me that we're not having a serious conversation. But I suppose this is the logical conclusion of the apparent argument that records don't matter. After all, if Sanders marching with King doesn't matter, clearly O'Malley's historically terrible record on nearly every issue BLM cares about doesn't matter either.
 

Kinyou

Member
A small group of people not associated with the larger movement keep doing this? I'm guessing hillary operatives.
Apparently the one woman is actually a former Palin supporter. I'm not putting my tinfoil hat on just yet, but this, along with other BLM groups actually apologizing puts the whole protest in a very dubious light
 
Here is a new post from The South Lawn, which I've posted before in this thread.

But as much as this series of protests might irritate me as a Sanders supporter, my frustration is not really about him or this ridiculous protest. I am frustrated by what one of the protestors called “the biggest grassroots movement in the country right now” and their lack of interest in winning any tangible gains for those that they claim to have as constituents.

...

What is the “weirdo populist economic determinism” that Garza speaks of here? Is it a minimum wage of $15 an hour, which will disproportionately help Black workers? Is it the expansion of Social Security, Medicaid, and Medicare? Is it the guaranteeing the ability of workers to organize collectively as a civil right? Maybe it is arguing for universal healthcare in a world where a Black person is sixty-five times more likely to die from a preventable disease like diabetes (approximately 15,000 completely preventable Black deaths from this in 2014) than they are to be shot and killed by the police (238 completely preventable Black deaths from this in 2013)? Or is it socialism in general, which Black people favor by a 55 to 38 percent margin and figures heavily into the history of emancipatory struggle in the US?

Black people, in poll after poll, seem to really care about this “weirdo populist economic determinism” stuff, since they consistently list things like education, the economy, and income inequality at the top of their policy concerns. As for police violence, a Gallup poll came out earlier this week that showed Black people reported feeling no more mistreated by police today than they did two decades ago (and that percentage is actually down seven percent from the 2004 survey).

And when issues of economic inequality have been on the lips of politicians left and right since Occupy Wall Street’s rise in 2011 (I would actually say that it is the one way that Occupy actually shifted political discussions in this country), why is it that Black Lives Matter seems to be doing the most to steer the discussion away from the issues that Black Lives Have Actually Said Matters Most To Them?

...

The problem, of course, is that it is hard to build a movement around fighting white supremacy and institutional racism when you are circumspect about a definitive path to eliminating those social ills; people typically want to know what your endgame is before they support your cause. How are you going to end white supremacy or institutional racism? Is it over once every cop is fitted with body cameras? Do we win when cops go to jail for civil rights violations? What if those things happen while unemployment for the Black working class is more than double the white working class? Is that not white supremacy, too?

Prescriptions are a good thing. Otherwise a social movement becomes what Black Lives Matter has seemingly become: a vehicle for individuals to become celebrity activists, feted by major media and nonprofits across the United States. How many articles have you seen that were focused on individual activists affiliated with Black Lives Matter? How many articles have you seen about policy victories at the local, state, or national levels?

Compare the two in your mind and see what you come up with. It is far more likely that you will remember some activist’s profile before you can think of a story on any kind of significant change that has affected Black Lives for the better. Great for them, I suppose, but then what has all of this been for if we are not working to remake the relationship between the state and its citizens? Given the police’s role as the main defender of private property in a capitalist system, we need something more visionary than a few hashtags and beige liberalism carefully disguised as radical change.

This has been a summer of disappointment. Not just with Black Lives Matter, but with self-described socialist organizations and publications that seem to believe that pandering to this particular protest group will get people like Alicia Garza and the innumerable online personalities who parrot similar rhetoric to stop engaging in the worst kind of hypocritical red-baiting: a red-baiting that completely erases socialists and communists of color from history in order to serve their mangled versions of liberatory politics.

As I have told people privately and publicly on a regular basis, their efforts will do nothing more than embolden an exclusive and identity-based liberalism. And you know what? The Sanders campaign posted about the #SayHerName hashtag all over social media. The largest socialist organization in America has posted on their blog and on social media in support of Black Lives Matter in the wake of their last demonstration at Netroots Nation in Phoenix.

Guess what? We are still here, with Black Lives Matter activists denouncing people at a rally for programs supported by Black people by a 9-to-1 margin as “white supremacists”, and with people from the online social justice set calling them “white moderates“. Funny how that works out.

It has been painful to see Black Lives Matter go all catawompus the way that it has. When the protests in Ferguson first began, I thought that this might be the best chance for a transformative and revolutionary change in our communities since King was rallying Black people and progressives of all stripes across the United States to a vision of liberation and justice. But it seems that all of this potential is being squandered so that a few people bent on the empty satisfaction of moral rectitude can score their fifteen minutes of fame. I have little faith that this will rectify itself in a world where the intoxication of fame and adulation is just one hashtag or attention-grabbing moment away.

Black Lives Matter is more interested in airtime for the few than social change for the many. What an absolute fucking shame.

Powerful stuff, really a blog I'd suggest following closely this election cycle.
 
Here is a new post from The South Lawn, which I've posted before in this thread.

Powerful stuff, really a blog I'd suggest following closely this election cycle.

Really well written, lines up pretty well with my feelings.
Man, white liberal paternalism in a fucking nutshell.

Do you guys even want to hear from us black activists?


Or are we completely meaningless if we don't entirely fall in line. Or in this case, want more minority/community outreach from Sanders?
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