• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Bleach Manga |OT| Return of the King

Popnbake

Member
How do you even fight against the "Almighty" ability? >.>

DBZ power ups are ass pull as any other manga.
YYH had its share of ass pulls.
Gon killing the Pitou was so extremely dumb. Yeah jump in ability by making himself older or something.
One piece has never had anything on Bleach. From the Crocodile fight to the ass pull gears power up tp Zorro's and Sanji's ass pull power ups throughout the manga.
Fairy Tail friendship power up has been a joke since the beginning of the manga.

I can't call that an asspull just yet
if Togashi really made it so that Gon can never use nen again.

He's been set aside for the biggest story arc yet and that's unusual for a main character.
 
DBZ power ups are ass pull as any other manga.
YYH had its share of ass pulls.
Gon killing the Pitou was so extremely dumb. Yeah jump in ability by making himself older or something.
One piece has never had anything on Bleach. From the Crocodile fight to the ass pull gears power up tp Zorro's and Sanji's ass pull power ups throughout the manga.
Fairy Tail friendship power up has been a joke since the beginning of the manga.
Talk about tension huh, you seem new to shonen manga. No tension in Bleach except when soul society was destroyed, or when Aizen was revealed. And lol on holding Bleach to a different standard as if not every shonen manga ever had its main characters win over villains in most arcs.
Your opinion is extremely biased and means absolutely nothing.

Saying that Kubo had a brain seizure is really Really dumb. You don't have to hyperbole everything to that extent.

I will preface this by saying that I love the shit out of Fairy Tail because I'm a sucker for simple entertaining stories with lovable characters (Big Shonen-anything fan pretty much). So, I am definitely biased.

However, there is speculation about friendship powerups and stuff in the fanbase. Sure, it's a widely used trope in Shonen, but Mashima has dropped many hints that friendship and love are the basis of magic power in the Fairy Tail universe, which would make "nakama power" make more sense. If friendship and love were the basis for magic power, then obviously fighting for your friends could make you crazy strong and shit. Shonen logic, you know. Just my two cents.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
Ugh. This guy's defeat at the hands of Ichigo won't be satisfying at all. They've already made Ywach or Bach or whatever a god. It's guaranteed that the only way Ichigo can win is to pull out even greater godlihood out of his ass, which just isn't satisfying. I hope we at least get another Aizen fight. Ichigo sucks so much. The only reason he wins is because he's the main character. Time and time again the manga has shown that there are shinigami much stronger than he is and yet he's the one who always beats the villain.

Nah. He's going to get wrecked and Ichigo will have to fight Ishida when he fully inherits A.
 

Chariot

Member
FMA SPOILERS
Honestly I consider Edward's power up at the end to be an ass pull. For one I don't think the exchange was equivalent. Getting an arm back and your brother's body for losing alchemy, I don't see that exchange as equivalent. That really bothered me at the end of the manga.

Shaman King spoilers

Isnt that like talk no jutsu, which seems fairly convenient at the end? I mean honestly one can break anything to make it look bad
.
Remember that we were talking about hax enemies getting plowed by somehow even more hax powers.

FMA:
If the exchange is equivalent or not is your opinion, the next best thing to a hax enemy, father, was destroyed by everything from heavy alchemist abilities to normal guns. Same for the Homunculi, they were certainly strong, but not without flaws.

Shaman King:
If talking is hax for you, everything is, ain't it? Besides, Shaman King was on purpose disconnected from the others, because I found the ending just particular interesting. Shaman King is otherwise no good example for power leves since they just keep jumping and multiplying. The interesting aspect is really, that despite that, the antagonist is so hax that he is still more than ten times stronger than the whole protagonist team.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
I wonder if the Soul King really exists or just a figure.
After all this time of wondering who he is, and having him be a complete mystery, he better exist.

(I bet it's Ichigo somehow)
 
What upsets me about bleach is not the amount of asspull. Asspulls can be be good if the results are interesting and adequately conveyed. That's how Bleach managed to slodge through mediocre fights, because at least you had something interesting happening happening if only for a couple panels.
This latest fight, however, does a terrible job at it. The villain basically stands still the whole time and says "wahwah my power is stronger than urs GG no re", and then the shinigami just explodes. Why? Because reasons. It's as if kubo is constantly experimenting with how much he can get away with.
For the record, I disliked how DBZ and YYH handled things.
 

Nightbird

Member
It´s better than any other shonen, and stand side by side to HXH.

No, just no. Bleach isn't even allowed to dream to be in the same League as HxH. Of all running Jump-Mangas One Piece is the closest and even OP is still at least one League below HxH.

Bleach has overstayed it's welcome a looong Time ago. You need to be a Fan of the Series to enjoy whats still happening, everyone else will just stop paying attention, and this is what the weekly rankings reflect.
 

Chariot

Member
It´s better than any other shonen, and stand side by side to HXH.
How? It since Hueco Mundo it manages to have the the feel of a constant tournament arc without an actual tournament. I actually liked Bleach until the end of Soul Society, but then it became just plain dumb. When Aizen became a butterfly, it totally jumped the last shark.
 
How do you even fight against the "Almighty" ability? >.>



I can't call that an asspull just yet
if Togashi really made it so that Gon can never use nen again.

He's been set aside for the biggest story arc yet and that's unusual for a main character.
True, but
IIRC Gon will start looking for someone to restore his nen abilities.
I will preface this by saying that I love the shit out of Fairy Tail because I'm a sucker for simple entertaining stories with lovable characters (Big Shonen-anything fan pretty much). So, I am definitely biased.

However, there is speculation about friendship powerups and stuff in the fanbase. Sure, it's a widely used trope in Shonen, but Mashima has dropped many hints that friendship and love are the basis of magic power in the Fairy Tail universe, which would make "nakama power" make more sense. If friendship and love were the basis for magic power, then obviously fighting for your friends could make you crazy strong and shit. Shonen logic, you know. Just my two cents.
I agree with friendship power up is common in shonen and thaat it give character bigger motivation to win, but my problem with FT is that it is used so often, and almost in every fight that the word friendship power up became synonymous with FT. In a sense every fight that FT members go through is predictable that they will win with a friendship power up. The whole Laxus vs. his dad´s guild was really awful. Same with Erza vs. Minerva and the latest Erza fight. After all she won because she was Erza :(
Remember that we were talking about hax enemies getting plowed by somehow even more hax powers.

FMA:
If the exchange is equivalent or not is your opinion, the next best thing to a hax enemy, father, was destroyed by everything from heavy alchemist abilities to normal guns. Same for the Homunculi, they were certainly strong, but not without flaws.

Shaman King:
If talking is hax for you, everything is, ain't it? Besides, Shaman King was on purpose disconnected from the others, because I found the ending just particular interesting. Shaman King is otherwise no good example for power leves since they just keep jumping and multiplying. The interesting aspect is really, that despite that, the antagonist is so hax that he is still more than ten times stronger than the whole protagonist team.

FMA:
We don´t know how Yhwach will lose. He might lose like Father did in FMA. Until then i won´t call an asspull win against Yhwach until an asspull is used. Personally i think Aizen will play an instrumental role in Yhwach´s defeat.

SK:
I am not talking about you, but one of Naruto´s biggest complaints is talk no jutsu. While i would agree that Yo´s brother was undefeatable, i would argue for convincing the most powerful person to get on your side, is in and of itself an asspull. But i can surely see your point though on both manga, i just happen to disagree with them :D

No, just no. Bleach isn't even allowed to dream to be in the same League as HxH. Of all running Jump-Mangas One Piece is the closest and even OP is still at least one League below HxH.

Bleach has overstayed it's welcome a looong Time ago. You need to be a Fan of the Series to enjoy whats still happening, everyone else will just stop paying attention, and this is what the weekly rankings reflect.

One piece is not in the same league as either Bleach or HXH. It has been running for 15 years with very little results to the overall story. It overstayed its welcome long time ago. And as far ranking they mean jack shit, since Bleach outsells plenty of the manga that outranks it, not to mention that these rankings are voted by few individuals.

Also, of course you have to be a fan of Bleach to enjoy it, like every other thing ever.

How? It since Hueco Mundo it manages to have the the feel of a constant tournament arc without an actual tournament. I actually liked Bleach until the end of Soul Society, but then it became just plain dumb. When Aizen became a butterfly, it totally jumped the last shark.
Well, i enjoy the characters of the manga. I liked the HM arc, the fullbring arc, until the last 5 chapters, and i like this arc more than Soul Society arc. This arc is finally shedding light on the animosity between the quincies and shinigami, that has been mentioned in the first chapters of the manga. It gave me info about Isshin and Misaki, this arc developed Zaraki and shed more light on Unohana, and Komamura. It also showed me the royal palace and the royal guards
 

Philippo

Member
DBZ power ups are ass pull as any other manga.
YYH had its share of ass pulls.
Gon killing the Pitou was so extremely dumb. Yeah jump in ability by making himself older or something.
One piece has never had anything on Bleach. From the Crocodile fight to the ass pull gears power up tp Zorro's and Sanji's ass pull power ups throughout the manga.
Fairy Tail friendship power up has been a joke since the beginning of the manga.
Talk about tension huh, you seem new to shonen manga. No tension in Bleach except when soul society was destroyed, or when Aizen was revealed. And lol on holding Bleach to a different standard as if not every shonen manga ever had its main characters win over villains in most arcs.
Your opinion is extremely biased and means absolutely nothing.

Saying that Kubo had a brain seizure is really Really dumb. You don't have to hyperbole everything to that extent.

You're right it is an ass pull, but at least Togashi makes up for it by using that as a starting point for a greater story arc
Killua's quest to save Gon
of which the ultimate price is the
separation of Gon and Killua
, and that's quite something imho.

How do you even fight against the "Almighty" ability? >.>



I can't call that an asspull just yet
if Togashi really made it so that Gon can never use nen again.

He's been set aside for the biggest story arc yet and that's unusual for a main character.

True, but
IIRC Gon will start looking for someone to restore his nen abilities.

In one of the latest chapters GIng claims he saw Gon's nen as normal, but he himself can't see it or use it, so he'll probably have to train back from square 0.
 
Bleach's fights are some Yu-Gi-Oh type shit.

When was the last time where both combatants were relatively even and it wasn't just an endless back and forth shitstomp?
 

Nightbird

Member
One piece is not in the same league as either Bleach or HXH. It has been running for 15 years with very little results to the overall story. It overstayed its welcome long time ago. And as far ranking they mean jack shit, since Bleach outsells plenty of the manga that outranks it, not to mention that these rankings are voted by few individuals.

Also, of course you have to be a fan of Bleach to enjoy it, like every other thing ever.

It's fair to criticize One Piece for it's slow pacing. But the reason why it is so slow is another as in other Mangas. It's constantly adding new Plot Points to the Story while resolving around the same amount or even less plot points at the same time, so overall you are left with a feeling of "The Story moved on, but at the same Time it didn't". This is something i see myself as a negative Point, even though i can see that the Goal of this is to expand the World and deepen the Characters outside of the Maincast.

And about Bleach outselling those other Manga: It's the 7th out of 9 Shonen Jump Mangas ranking in the 30 best-selling Mangas of 2014. For a Manga that was once glorified as Member of the "Big 3", this is disappointing. Bleach never recovered from it's sales going down by around 25% in 2012, and yet many new Titles come and surpass it by a Mile.


No, you are not required to be a Fan before enjoying this. Interest is enough. But if you don't manage to stay interesting the Fans will be the only ones left. That's the difference. Or do you think that everyone who enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy or Avangers is a Fan of Superheroes?
 

IHaveIce

Banned
DBZ power ups are ass pull as any other manga.
YYH had its share of ass pulls.
Gon killing the Pitou was so extremely dumb. Yeah jump in ability by making himself older or something.
One piece has never had anything on Bleach. From the Crocodile fight to the ass pull gears power up tp Zorro's and Sanji's ass pull power ups throughout the manga.
Fairy Tail friendship power up has been a joke since the beginning of the manga.
Talk about tension huh, you seem new to shonen manga. No tension in Bleach except when soul society was destroyed, or when Aizen was revealed. And lol on holding Bleach to a different standard as if not every shonen manga ever had its main characters win over villains in most arcs.
Your opinion is extremely biased and means absolutely nothing.

Saying that Kubo had a brain seizure is really Really dumb. You don't have to hyperbole everything to that extent.
Your opinion is even more biased and even dumber you are known for how you get mad and shift focus to other mangas everytime something bad was said about Bleach.

Just say you enjoy Bleach for what it is but trying to play it as Bleach's current writing,pace and power up aren't super shitty and child levels of fanfiction then yeah.. I think you are lost.
 
Has Beam changed his mind on this even an inch in the last couple of years?

I haven't looked in the manga related GAF threads for a long time, and I swear people were having the exact same debate with him a year ago as well.
 
Asspulls should at least be interesting.

Bleach's asspulls, powers, what have you haven't. Hell, you have DOZENS of good, even fan favorite characters but instead you chose to focus on the ones nobody even cared about.

Why should I bloody care about Yhwach or Ichibei? Why have we spent a few chapters on them when the characters what we do care about has been cast aside?

One Piece had some focus on side characters, and it only lasted about 1 1/2 chapters, now THAT's good planning.

Bleach though? Fairly bad storytelling all around.
 

Percy

Banned
Ichigo vs Grimjow.

Hmmm... I'd say Kyouraku vs Stark was pretty even as well.

And about Bleach outselling those other Manga: It's the 7th out of 9 Shonen Jump Mangas ranking in the 30 best-selling Mangas of 2014. For a Manga that was once glorified as Member of the "Big 3", this is disappointing. Bleach never recovered from it's sales going down by around 25% in 2012, and yet many new Titles come and surpass it by a Mile.

Wow... what happened in 2012 to hit Bleach's sales so hard?
 

Corgi

Banned
you know... think im tired of kubo wasting tons of pages for long ass spell incantations that never do anything against anyone.

Surely there is better ways to fill time.
 
No, just no. Bleach isn't even allowed to dream to be in the same League as HxH. Of all running Jump-Mangas One Piece is the closest and even OP is still at least one League below HxH.

Bleach has overstayed it's welcome a looong Time ago. You need to be a Fan of the Series to enjoy whats still happening, everyone else will just stop paying attention, and this is what the weekly rankings reflect.

Your opinion. For me One Piece tops them all in humor, epicness, great battles, great characters, interesting world. HxH? yeah i surely like my shonen composed of countless chapters of explaining chi-powers and shit (and people complain about the pacing in OP, lol) and, Gon
killing pitou with his ripped off arm
was like Toriko levels of nonsense, really awful, and don't even get me started on the low quality artwork...

OT: Still, Bleach is about missed chances tbh. The characters are greatly designed and their interactions were fun before, but now these fights are uninteresting, and it doesn't help that the chapters are so short you really feel no shit is happening between the stained ink on the pages...
 

Nightbird

Member
Wow... what happened in 2012 to hit Bleach's sales so hard?

I don't know, but according to Oricon, the Manga Sales in 2011 looked like this:

08. Bleach [Shūeisha, Weekly Shōnen JUMP] – 4.187.258

and one year later like this:

12. Bleach (Weekly Shōnen JUMP, Shūeisha) – 2.974.750

Since then, Bleach stayed around that Numer, with 2013 looking like this:

15. 2.752.588 | Bleach | Shueisha | Tite Kubo

and this year like this:

18. *2,986,968 Bleach

So yeah, it took a dive of around 25% (~4M -> ~3M) in 2012, and never went up again.
 

Syntsui

Member
People stanning Bleach nowadays makes me understand why everybody cringes when I stan Jay Z and Eminem in 2015.

It just can't be helped, lol.
 
I wonder if the Soul King really exists or just a figure.

uh, hes been seen. he's currently in some kind of crystal.

im surprised no one corrected you or the other guy. actually, im not. the people who tend to aggresively complain also to have memory loss with plot and visual details.
 
People stanning Bleach nowadays makes me understand why everybody cringes when I stan Jay Z and Eminem in 2015.

It just can't be helped, lol.
Wow man are you from the future?
And ffs people, gon killing pitou made sense in the universe, they established the conditions system ages before.
 
Ulquiorra, Barragan, Starrk, Harribel, and Wonder Wiess are Vasto lorde. Starrk, Ulquiorra, and Wonder Wiess are confirmed Vasto lorde. Wonder Wiess when Aizen showed the power of the Hougyoku. He was humoined which is a big sign of a Vasto lorde. Starrk when he can showed his power, splitting his soul and killing his hollows with just his riatsu. Ulquiorra and the mentioned were confirmed Vasto Lorde in the data book that was released about the arrancars.

For me, as a whole they didn't live up to the hype according to Hitsugaya. Perhaps the only one that did to an extent was Harribel since she was ready to go after being unfrozen and is still alive (even if barely).
 

kmax

Member
I don't know, but according to Oricon, the Manga Sales in 2011 looked like this:



and one year later like this:



Since then, Bleach stayed around that Numer, with 2013 looking like this:



and this year like this:



So yeah, it took a dive of around 25% (~4M -> ~3M) in 2012, and never went up again.

I'm going to take a stab and say that a lot of people bounced after Aizen was defeated.
 

ElFly

Member
How can anyone say that One Piece has not advanced the plot.

It is about circumnavigating the world.

And they are around 55% there.

Besides tons of other plot points.

And at the same time praising Bleach, one of the most meandering mangas ever.
 

Joni

Member
It was less Aizen, more Fullbring. The Shonen Jump rankings started sliding during that arc. From the Soul Society Arc until around chapter 13 of the Fullbring Arc, it scored in the top 6 of the ranking, then it started dropping like a brick. It restored itself towards the end of the arc, and then dropped off again with The Vandenreich Arc. People seemed to want more Bleach after Aizen, but Fullbring wasn't liked enough.
http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?1865-WSJ-Bleach-rankings
 

jstripes

Banned
It´s more like shitting because something happened that you don´t like. It´s just a place for haters to come and hate, period. Ridiculous bullshit as you see it is just hate.

I honestly don't care enough to be upset by what's happening in Bleach.

But that's not gonna stop me from having a good laugh at the level of bad it's getting.
 
the high point of bleach

2987262-barragan_resurecion_by_axone213.jpg
 

Astral

Member
I will be very pleased if Kyoraku is going to see Central 46 because he wants to release Aizen for help. Bring back the best character.
 

Chariot

Member
I liked Starrk, he even had a interesting backstory. But as usual Kubo sensed that he could be interesting, so he imminently killed him afterwards.
 
fixed that for you mang

The badassery of this fight is great, but I still can't get past the way it was written.

Aizen was clearly fighting with the Captains and Vizards at some point. We see this from Ichigo's point of view, and he's like "Holy Shit!" as the first few get cut down.

If we're to assume that he switched places with Hinamori right before Soi Fon's attack (which raises the question of how Hinamori could have possibly survived Soi Fon's shikai, but whatever) that led to the eventual Hitsugaya stab/reveal, we have to assume that Ichigo stood their slackjawed for some time and didn't say anything until Hinamori had been stabbed by 3 Captains and nearly passed out from blood loss.

Aizen somehow appears inside the kido barrier as if he'd been there the whole time, which I think Ichigo would have noticed. The whole scene would have been 1000x better if Ichigo either weren't there or had been somehow distracted (like he was shortly afterward by Gin)
 

Akuun

Looking for meaning in GAF
Yeah, Bleach is still consistently bad but I keep reading it like a whore.
I stopped reading Bleach when they were going through that ridiculous year-long fight between the captains and the arrancar. Went "fuck this, I'm out" pretty much every week, only to come back every chapter for several months before I realized what I was doing and then went "okay, seriously, fuck it all this time" and then left.

A few months (or was it a few years?) later, I came back and looked over the Fullbringer stuff before quitting again.

Years later, I'm poking at it again and still wondering why I keep coming back.
 

Mael

Member
Your opinion is extremely biased and means absolutely nothing.

I'll start with that, a severe case of projection if I ever saw one.
According to you there's never ever been a bad part in Bleach.
Heck I only read it (because who have time for the anime really) and even enjoyed the FB arc and really Bleach is like one of the only big manga I'm actually paying good money for (as my SO does OP and we haven't started Naruto, I still do Fairy Tail occasionally).
Bleach is significantly better in volume form than week/week, still nothing in volume form is going to save this chapter.

DBZ power ups are ass pull as any other manga.

The problem are not the asspulls but that there's no way to expect them, Dragon actually took its time to forshadow most of them so that the reader isn't incredulously looking at the pages thinking that author have lost his mind.
But please let's entertain ourselves, find something as egregious in Dragon Ball as what was in the current Bleach chapter.
Every single time in DB, there's a purpose behind it that's not just "OMG look at how badass this look" with total disregard for the internal logic of the manga before.

YYH had its share of ass pulls.
There's something like 1 or 2 instances but nothing like what you usually get in Bleach "Sharingarm" moments.

Gon killing the Pitou was so extremely dumb. Yeah jump in ability by making himself older or something.
Did you fell asleep reading the manga or something?
it's actually foreshadowed and explained, you can actually see it coming if not to that extent. There's tension and payoff and finally consequences to everything that happens in HxH. Consequences, something that Kubo totally forgot.
If the consequences for Gon's asspull is that he's back to squareone (or even farther than that) that's a reasonable consequence for this.
As for Alluka, if Togashi hadn't been stopped we would have gotten an explanation on what makes Alluka so special (although anyone with a brain can connect the dots).
My point is HxH is internally consistent or at least doesn't have plotholes the size of the Original Star wars trilogy.

One piece has never had anything on Bleach. From the Crocodile fight to the ass pull gears power up to Zorro's and Sanji's ass pull power ups throughout the manga.

Luffy's powerup makes sense throughout the manga and are actually foreshadowed.
OP is not just random powerup, it's creative use of the power that makes people dangerous (and then you have logia users).

Fairy Tail friendship power up has been a joke since the beginning of the manga.

Exactly and that's still miles better than current Bleach.

Talk about tension huh, you seem new to shonen manga. No tension in Bleach except when soul society was destroyed, or when Aizen was revealed. And lol on holding Bleach to a different standard as if not every shonen manga ever had its main characters win over villains in most arcs.

I'm reading and following manga since the 80's, I actually have the last volume of Dragon Ball from when it was released (and I'm talking of the JPN release),
if someone is new to this it's probably you who've discovered Bleach and seem to think nothing is wrong with it.

No one gives a shit about Soul Society because that's where people tangential to the hero happen to be. He's their friend yadayada, but seriously it's dead people in the 1rst place and there's nothing about Soul Society that makes it so special it needs to be saved compared to say Karakura town.
In the current arc, we're supposed to care that they're invading a place we've seen nothing about and trying to topple a dysfunctional government we couldn't give less of a shit about.
At least the Karakura town crisis had gravitas toward it since it was a place we had a reason to care whether it was destroyed or not.
Not everything is to be thrown out in Bleach but by god is it bad sometimes.

I liked Starrk, he even had a interesting backstory. But as usual Kubo sensed that he could be interesting, so he imminently killed him afterwards.

Seriously, what a waste of everyone's time that was.
 
Top Bottom