Support NeoGAF

[Shanadeus]

Fixed

Fair enough, I too prefer a hard limit of one page.



OT Guidelines

• One page ONLY
• No images must be used to display bodies of text longer than one sentence.
• Majority of the space in your OP need to be taken up by text, not images.
• The majority of pictures should be present at the end of the topic post.

A good way of testing the picture to text ratio is by disabling all images, and seeing if you can still make sense of the OT.

I suspect the Asscreed OT along with a number of other OTs would fail this test.

 

[Dash Kappei]

Like I said before its almost all relevant, you just don't know it because you don't have a fucking clue about the series.

Clothes, cards, keychains... how could we do without them!

[edit] wait, this one's golden: "The history of Greek fire" LMAO

 

[nny]

That AC OT reminds me of the fansites from the 90s; I would put all that in www.geocities.com/ACshrine.

 

[Drkirby]

This right here is the #1 reason I don't like topics that are nothing but images:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340358

Oh, look at that, ALL THE IMAGES ARE DEAD!

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Release date, characters, weapons/maps (for multiplayer shooters) car types/models (racers), other relevant game customization options, basic synposis of gameplay/setting. That should all be straight text and first on the OT. No images of boxart and shit like that until after all that information is on display. Instead it's like HUGE DEVELOPER INFO picture, HUGE BOXART EXTRAVAGANZA, HUGE CHARACTER PICTURE SECTION, SCREENSHOT HOLY SHIT SECTION. Then we get to weapons and you have to hunt for it.

Who the hell you think you are to decide what´s important and what´s not?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

This right here is the #1 reason I don't like topics that are nothing but images:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340358

Oh, look at that, ALL THE IMAGES ARE DEAD!

Oddly enough, I think that is the case for the Assassin's creed game before this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410426#2

 

[confused]

Oddly enough, I think that is the case for the Assassin's creed game before this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410426#2

Lol, same guy, too.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Release dates, system specs, basic story/gameplay is fine as others have pointed out.

Having more than that, or pictures that look straight out of the official website, along with a bunch of extravagant information is a bit over the top.

How about Multiplayer modes/maps/classes and info? Those are very important for games who rely heavily on MP. Don´t you go decide what´s important info and what´s not.

No you're not seeing that, so I don't know why you would post something you know is untrue. Nobody's criticizing "one minor detail not being exactly the way they want." That's a straight-up lie.

No, it´s not a lie at all. What you are saying if an OT is not done the way you wanted that means the OT is dog shit filled with viral marketers and PR people.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Oddly enough, I think that is the case for the Assassin's creed game before this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410426#2

Lol, both of those are pretty bad. Amazing.

 

[confused]

How about Multiplayer modes/maps/classes and info? Those are very important for games who rely heavily on MP. Don´t you go decide what´s important info and what´s not.


No, it´s not a lie at all. What you are saying if an OT is not done the way you wanted that means the OT is dog shit filled with viral marketers and PR people.

No, what we are saying is that OT's that look like the ACR OT look like they have been paid for by Ubisoft. Fuck, probably more effort went into creating the OT than went into creating the game. It's like an encyclopedia on all things AC, instead of a focussed OT for a single game.

 

[Aselith]

Who the hell you think you are to decide what´s important and what´s not?

I'll just link you to the relevant information. Study it at your leisure:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32507945&postcount=941

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32508035&postcount=946

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32508144&postcount=950

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32508168&postcount=952

Please feel free to present me with some qualifications if you insist that anyone who makes an argument needs to be licensed. Don't bother to respond if you don't have the proper certificates.

 

[Yen]

It'll be interesting to see whether the ME3 OT is a massive PR bloatfest or a troll post.

 

[HMC]

I don't think OT's should cause technical issues, but I like the content. It's like an entire site worth of info edited down to one nice concise page. Much easier than navigating the actual site, IMO. I wish all OT's were like this.

Simple, easy-to-read info pages with a release date and a couple screens can be found on any one of a dozen retailer websites. I wouldn't open a GAF OT expecting the same and hope I never do.

 

[etiolate]

I'd also like to add that it's a plague that every new release gets like 7 different threads opn the frontpage in the week of release. Like right now there are 5 or 6 MW3 threads on the frontpage. Is that really needed ? It seems like people nowadays are just falling over themselves to create threads for every single little piece of information just to be the first, even if they stole that info from other posters.

GAF is one part of a bigger cycle. You had people lining up at 3pm today for the midnight launch of MW3. Spectacles like that used to be maybe once a year at most, reserved for some huge launch, and more likely a system launch. Instead of being the natural product of 'enthusiasm' as people are heralding it here, launch events have become a product of retail pushing reserves of games, and once reserves hit a certain quota, they do a midnight launch.

People want to be excited about things like how things were exciting and new when they were a child. I think there's a Don Draper line about how teenagers and college kids secretly mourn their childhood. The truth is you can only pop your cherry once. After that, you sort of know what to expect. People mourn for that excitement and anticipation, like that of Christmas morning or your first time. Nobody out in that MW3 line is going to get anything unexpected or surprising when they get their copy of the game. Nobody reading the Assassin's Creed thread is clueless about what the game is or cares about all the stuff listed in the thread. It's just a lot of people wanting to feel anticipation, so they find out about a game, read items to get hyped for the game, reserve the game, wait in line for the game, make some glorified ad for a game, and so on and so on. It's the routine that matters more than the game. It's the process and ritual of the thing.

The problem is that these are supposed to be discussion threads, not rituals. By the time you get through the long OPs, the pages of GREAT OP, and the pages of people saying "I'm off to get it!", you're about eight or so pages into a thread without any discussion of the game. The mood has already been set. It's Christmas Morning and everyone better act like it. There is no environment for people to really talk about the game.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Who the hell you think you are to decide what´s important and what´s not?

Why do these things pop up? You don't need to be a cook to know how something tastes bad. You don't need to be an expert to know how something is superfluous especially regarding video game information.

 

[toastyToast]

I think it's sad that people spend so much time working on the OTs. Is there nothing else worth spending your precious hours on?

This is a video game forum. Our time isn't precious.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

No, what we are saying is that OT's that look like the ACR OT look like they have been paid for by Ubisoft. Fuck, probably more effort went into creating the OT than went into creating the game. It's like an encyclopedia on all things AC, instead of a focussed OT for a single game.

NEOGAF
New
Age
Gaming
Forum

People forget that this is a gaming forum.

Stop insulting people, and suggesting that they are PR machines.
Being interested for games is really out of place for a gaming forum

Spoiler

sarcasm

. Have you even played the game, so you could judge if it´s good or bad? You don´t like an OT don´t fucking read, no one is forcing you to do so

Spoiler

except it´s bannable offense to not read the OT/first post

.

Why do these things pop up? You don't need to be a cook to know how something tastes bad. You don't need to be an expert to know how something is superfluous especially regarding video game information.

Oh yes, we should all have the same opinion on everything. That would make things much better.

And no, what you see as important for OT differ from what i see as important in an OT.

 

[confused]

I don't think OT's should cause technical issues, but I like the content. It's like an entire site worth of info edited down to one nice concise page. Much easier than navigating the actual site, IMO. I wish all OT's were like this.

Simple, easy-to-read info pages with a release date and a couple screens can be found on any one of a dozen retailer websites. I wouldn't open a GAF OT expecting the same and hope I never do.

That OP is bigger than some websites I've visited.....

NEOGAF
New
Age
Gaming
Forum

People forget that this is a gaming forum.

Stop insulting people, and suggesting that they are PR machines.
Being interested for games is really out of place for a gaming forum

Spoiler

sarcasm

. Have you even played the game, so you could judge if it´s good or bad? You don´t like an OT don´t fucking read, no one is forcing you to do so

Spoiler

except it´s bannable offense to not read the OT/first post

.

Oh yes, we should all have the same opinion on everything. That would make things much better.

And no, what you see as important for OT differ from what i see as important in an OT.

Nobody forgot it's a gaming forum. We are just pointing out that once people put more effort into their Unofficial OT's than most companies do for their OFFICIAL websites it just seems wrong. Also, the point of those threads should be just to excite people about the game, that can be achieved wthout taking 15 posts.

 

[Radec]

I have one tiny technical objection to OTs, in addition to my personal dislike of them.
I work in a company where most free image hosts are blocked. imgur.com, abload.de, flickr.com etc. No images hosted on any of those sites are displayed. So these OTs are mostly just a bunch of blank posts.

Maybe, if EviLore is actively supporting these advertorials, the images could at least be hosted on neogaf.com?

I'm afraid I cant let you browse that Jonny Ram.

-IT.

 

[QisTopTier]

I like the ultimate marvel thread If that's considered "too much" then idk what to say.

 

[confused]

I like the ultimate marvel thread If that's considered "too much" then idk what to say.

I consider it too much. Sorry. But it is miles better than the AC thread.

 

[obonicus]

No, what we are saying is that OT's that look like the ACR OT look like they have been paid for by Ubisoft.

Not really. Fans do this all the time. And as advertisement, it's just not very good, since I can ignore it completely. Is the Assassin's Creed wiki also paid for by Ubisoft? It has even more meticulous detail than the OT, and no criticism of the game.

Fuck, probably more effort went into creating the OT than went into creating the game.

This is a colossally stupid statement. Over a hundred people worked on the game for at least a year, one guy put this OT together over a much shorter period of time. Hyperbole only hurts your point.

It's like an encyclopedia on all things AC, instead of a focussed OT for a single game.

It's a pattern used by well-regarded OTs in the past. Yeah, there's a bit of 'AC Shrine' to it, but it's fitting, given the bboard markup tech is straight from the 90s.

 

[derFeef]

I only made one OT myself so far, but I set myself some rules.
- Style should fit the game, set some tone.
- Clear and structered.
- Real text for usability reasons.

I have no idea if I succeeded in GAFs eyes, but I think those rules are good.

 

[Mistwalker]

I can't understand why anyone would criticize someone for putting too much effort into something, especially if that person is hyped, passionate, and has the time/drive to put something together. I think we can all agree OTs are the start of many a hype train, and you don't need to be company PR to want what you love to be recognized and succeed.

It's a ridiculous and personal point to attack, when you could stick to arguing for more brevity, concision, and readability in OT threads in general. I think the AC topic is a good example of what can go wrong when your planned content is "anything and everything that might possibly be relevant, in its entirety."

 

[WickedLaharl]

Oddly enough, I think that is the case for the Assassin's creed game before this one.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=410426#2

That's pretty funny.

 

[etiolate]

I can't understand why anyone would criticize someone for putting too much effort into something, especially if that person is hyped, passionate, and has the time/drive to put something together. I think we can all agree OTs are the start of many a hype train, and you don't need to be company PR to want what you love to be recognized and succeed.

It's a ridiculous and personal point to attack, when you could stick to arguing for more brevity, concision, and readability in OT threads in general. I think the AC topic is a good example of what can go wrong when your planned content is "anything and everything that might possibly be relevant, in its entirety."

It is not the role of the consumer to market and sell the game.

I love Guild Wars. I'm hyped for Guild Wars 2. I will not make a large, illustrious OP for Guild Wars 2--even though I feel there is still much lack of knowledge of the game--because it is not my job to. I buy the game, I approve or disapprove of the game and its changes. Selling the game is the company's job. It's their job to make a good game and make people want it.

The idea that its the fans job to promote a game, especially ones as heavily promoted as AC, is beguiling, troubling even. I don't put that much fanfare into getting laid and I like sex very much. There is some serious disconnect going on here.

 

[Jonnyram]

Wow, that guy must really have a hard on for Assassin's Creed.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

It is not the role of the consumer to market and sell the game.

What the fuck is this shit? Being exited and hyped up for a game does not mean one is trying to sell it.

 

[confused]

What the fuck is this shit? Being exited and hyped up for a game does not mean one is trying to sell it.

Then what are OT's for if not to sell someone on the game ?

 

[derFeef]

Then what are OT's for if not to sell someone on the game ?

A place for people discussing the game they play or plan to play? Gathering impressions, sharing experience, and if they want infos they just need to go back to the OT and search for it (assuming there is text to search for).

 

[snoopeasystreet]

The only thing I'm interested in an OT is the release date for major releases and the basic premise for indie games. Everything else, I can get from the discussion.

 

[Thrakier]

PR is something completly different though. Also I think it's just fair if a fan of a brand does express his/her excitement. Happens all the time. Yes, it's kinda viral, but who says that this is a bad thing? The whole internet kinda relies on viral proceedings, see amazon.com. Imo it's great.

 

[etiolate]

A place for people discussing the game they play or plan to play? Gathering impressions, sharing experience, and if they want infos they just need to go back to the OT and search for it (assuming there is text to search for).

Discussion should be the point, but elaborate, multi-post OPs have made the threads more about the OP, the OP as an advertisement and people's appreciation of the quality of that piece of copy.

Keep in mind, I respond to Mistwalker's statement:

you don't need to be company PR to want what you love to be recognized and succeed.

and if your OT is made to make the game recognized and successful, then yes its an advertisement

 

[Boss Doggie]

It becomes a PR machine when it has unnecessary stuff like those uplay stuff.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I wonder, would people go for a website that has dedicated mega-OPs and then just link those for OPs? Similar to the LP Archive site that SA has.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

These OT's feel more like complete instruction manuals more than anything these days, but the time people actually make to come up with them is certainly second to none

 

[Mistwalker]

It is not the role of the consumer to market and sell the game.

The idea that its the fans job to promote a game, especially ones as heavily promoted as AC, is beguiling, troubling even. I don't put that much fanfare into getting laid and I like sex very much. There is some serious disconnect going on here.

Right...who said any of those things?

We're a community of hobbyists. Obviously it's not our job to make threads about games we love, but if someone does, why would you criticize them for it? Fans do it all the time, no one is obligating anything. If someone else wants to put 20 hours into an OT for a game they think is crazy awesome, what harm is being done to you or anyone else? If the darn thing is unreadable as a result, well...there I can understand a negative reaction.

Then what are OT's for if not to sell someone on the game ?

You mean other than provide an established place of discussion for the title? We're ostensibly all gamers here, if you're excited for a title and want it to succeed, why wouldn't you hype it and try and show people why you think it's awesome? In a sense, it's an advertisement, but that's what devoted fans of things DO.

If your points are that the content was so over the top, it ended up looking so much like a press release that it failed in its "by fans for fans" hype-building purpose--or actually hurt the game--that's another argument entirely. Certainly, the Assassin's Creed OT almost seems to promote itself rather than the title (which is bad), but I don't know if that's what you're getting at.

 

[RDreamer]

I think it's sad that people spend so much time working on the OTs. Is there nothing else worth spending your precious hours on?

Really? Why do people have to criticize like this. People on this forum love games. Some people on this forum also love designing things. Why is it a waste of precious time to combine those things? I mean do you really not think that some people might actually like making and designing those OTs? I'm a graphic designer for a living, and I still really love doing it on the side and for fun. I could really see myself getting into a project like that for a game I love. How is that wasting your time? You're honing a useful skill, doing something you love, and putting something up for the community you're part of. I mean, really, a lot of people on this forum spend hundreds of hours gaming each month. You have no right to criticize someone that spends 20 hours or whatever on an OT. That's the length of one or two games. Big deal.

 

[TelemachusD]

The AC OP is 60 vertical screens on my computer. This is the internet: hyperlinks are your friends, for most of that extra info you can just link to a wiki or official site. There's a reason GAF has strict avatar sizes and no signatures; it keeps the forums clean and readable. These long OT posts are anything but. And then they tend to miss the simple stuff too. After reading the whole AC:R OP I still won't even know how much the various versions cost.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

I think it's sad that people spend so much time working on the OTs. Is there nothing else worth spending your precious hours on?

People who make these OT's are designers at heart. They love making things (me included) and perhaps learn new tricks along the way when making new OT's.

Its a big skill to have, if you work in this business of designing would you dare say to them that it is sad that they make pointless box art or instruction manuals or even poster adverts and the like...I am quite offended by this quote

RDreamer well said

 

[Nekofrog]

I find it interesting that the post showing that HUGE IMAGE THREADS are a bad idea due to broken images has gone largely ignored.

I mean shit, they even showed up the OP of this Asscreed fiasco by showing his last Asscreed OT, and it's FULL OF BROKEN images.

That makes OTs worthless. All the info is guaranteed to be gone going by his track record.

 

[Majanew]

People who make these OT's are designers at heart. They love making things (me included) and perhaps learn new tricks along the way when making new OT's.

Its a big skill to have, if you work in this business of designing would you dare say to them that it is sad that they make pointless box art or instruction manuals or even poster adverts and the like...I am quite offended by this quote

RDreamer well said

Yep, I agree. I design some things myself and that's the only thing I like about the huge OTs. Other than that though, they're just too much sometimes. The BF3 one is really nice and not too much, but the AC Revelations one talks about stuff that isn't about Revelations. Good design, but really need to learn that cramming more stuff doesn't make better.

 

[Larson Conway]

Well based on the responses here, I might have reason to be guilty of being PR-bloated, lol!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403704

I honestly think the OT I made was reasonably "bloated," but back then I got replies similar to those in the AC thread.

 

[EYEL1NER]

I expressed my dislike for pictures for text, since I can't view them at work, but I don't mind bloat at all. I like for a ton of information to be there. That's just me though.

 

[Monocle]

I agree with the OP. OTs should be concise and informative.

I must not, and cannot, agree with you, because you presented your argument in a overly critical manner, as if to expose a seedy underbelly of the defendant. Your use of drawn out linguistics and overall insulting tone leads me to believe that your motive is an overall falsehood.

Spoiler

Why do people use so many fancy words on a forum. like, what the heck is sycophantic ?! Just shutup and speak normal, jeez

Words that mean things make my brainplace ouchfeel!

 

[SuicidalSteve]

Yep, I agree. I design some things myself and that's the only thing I like about the huge OTs. Other than that though, they're just too much sometimes. The BF3 one is really nice and not too much, but the AC Revelations one talks about stuff that isn't about Revelations. Good design, but really need to learn that cramming more stuff doesn't make better.

That's the thing and perhaps the maker of a bloated OT could learn to maybe make them more compact yet retain the awesome designs of bigger OT's

 

[RDreamer]

Well based on the responses here, I might have reason to be guilty of being PR-bloated, lol!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403704

I honestly think the OT I made was reasonably "bloated," but back then I got replies similar to those in the AC thread.

That's actually a pretty great OT. I can't see why anyone would have a problem with it. It seems to solve everything people think is wrong with the AC OT while still looking nice. It's got a lot of actual text, it has short summaries of what's new and why the game is something of note, and it has the relevant info right at the top (release date, price, etc).

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Well based on the responses here, I might have reason to be guilty of being PR-bloated, lol!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403704

I honestly think the OT I made was reasonably "bloated," but back then I got replies similar to those in the AC thread.

I can take or leave the artwork and reviews, but any OP that manages to fit into one post without using jpeg text is a blessing in and of itself.

The one time that I can recall going over the character limit (which IIRC was a lot smaller back then and it would have taken minimal effort to combine those 2 posts today), I did so by cramming as many things into the 2nd post that I felt would be actually useful for someone playing the game. That's probably something more suited to classic game threads than new releases in the first place though, and I might have still overdone it.

I'm kicking myself for passing on the Daytona OT, leaving us with this instead of something more like this. I said it in that thread and I'll say it here: even isamu's premature nonsense OT manages to be at least entertaining while also not being any less useful than the thread we got anyway.

 

[suzu]

You can still make a snazzy and informative thread without going overboard with all the huge images. Try to achieve a happy medium.

 

[Suairyu]

The "OT people love good design!" argument isn't the most genuine argument in the world. Good design is in efficiency and compatibility. As it stands, the AC:R OT is completely incompatible with smartphone users and like with the previous AC:B thread will be unusable in about a year's time when the images die.

It also uses an awful lot to say very little that is useful.

Well based on the responses here, I might have reason to be guilty of being PR-bloated, lol!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403704

I honestly think the OT I made was reasonably "bloated," but back then I got replies similar to those in the AC thread.

While the top banner with youtube links is a touch indulgent and not wise in the smartphone age, the only actual quibble I have with that would be the artwork section. You could have made the thumbnails much more compact.

Otherwise, that is a perfect OT OP. Strikes a decent balance between informative and good-looking, the emphasis being on the informative. AC:R OT guy could learn a lot from you.