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[Boss Doggie]

Images break, images can't be ctrl+f'd to search for information, images cannot be copy-pasted, images take much longer to load, images can't be zoomed like text, etc etc. I'm fine with them being used as headers and whatnot, but when EVERYTHING is in an image that's no good.

This.

serious I think people need to grow some balls, go back to the thread and look at it again. Of course you won't like it, too late for that but you might actually realise most complaints are invalid.

The information might be there, but it lacks the thing on what make good OTs good - the ability to get the needed information quickly through searching. Hell, there's even no need to search if everything is condense yet concise.

 

[Retro_]

Why do we want our OTs to be almost nothing but text now?

Practicality.

Like how FAQs are separated by sections with unique number-letter combinations so one can use control-f to quickly access the information they need

With one image containing multiple pieces of information, it's hard to efficiently navigate towards the information you need. Which seems to be the biggest complaint with the assassin creed OT

If it's not efficient then that defeats the purpose. If I'm going to scroll through 20 OT posts for new info I might as well just skim recent pages in the thread to see if anyone posted the new patch notes or whatever

 

[Irish]

images cannot be copy-pasted, images can't be zoomed like text, etc etc.
.

These two aren't true.

Also, if it was all text, the post count would have likely gone up due to the character limits.

A lot of the stuff is also in plain text already. The recaps of the past three games, for example.

 

[Retro_]

These two aren't true.

Also, if it was all text, the post count would have likely gone up due to the character limits.

Well a better designed OT would have alot less useless information

I can read the manual when I buy the game. I don't need every basic mechanic and item explained in the OT

 

[Cth]

I'm all for em.. Especially since manuals used to be as dense and people had no issues with them then.

 

[N-Bomb]

Avatars? Seriously?

 

[Massa]

Well a better designed OT would have alot less useless information

I can read the manual when I buy the game. I don't need every basic mechanic and item explained in the OT

About that...

 

[iNvid02]

the image text is a valid complaint yes, I did it because it was that or use regular text which goes on longer vertically.

The point that keeps popping up is you can't search for info, I doubt anyone here wanted to search for anything or even copy/paste anything from the thread, just complaining because it's not an option.

The links in post 1 means these stories of oh noezz I'm drowning in info are just untrue

 

[shintoki]

Ignored that Enzo Ferrari was part of the Assassin's Creed cannon.

I already covered it all, and if you have any questions still. This answers it all.

 

[Irish]

I can read the manual when I buy the game. I don't need every basic mechanic and item explained in the OT

About that- Here was the entire Brohood manual:

 

[Retro_]

About that...

rofl

damn you ubisoft invalidating my argument

 

[CAW]

Avatars? Seriously?

I don't think I've seen an OT yet without a set of avatars.

I think it looks great. For those complaining about scrolling: Home and End. Also, PgUp and PgDn.

 

[Shanadeus]

Standards doesn't necessarily mean voting btw - just the preferred method to which everyone agrees on. Sure other people can go against it, but they'd be frowned upon.

Precisely!

I've used the Skyrim thread as a guideline (with the thread itself being very close to the upper limit of information that should be presented to the viewer, but still being excellent) and devised the following basic lOTl guide:

OT Guidelines

• One page for single games, one page per each game in collections.
• No images must be used to display bodies of text longer than one sentence.
• The image to text-ratio must be 1-2:10
• The majority of pictures should be present at the end of the topic post.
• There must be a link to bypass the OP on top of the first post, below the opening picture, if your OP is more than one page.

Example OP:

[Opening image]

[News]

Text, and images when relevant.
Use this space for updates to the game.

[Release date header, text or image]

Text only. (System specs if a PC release)

[Editions header, text or image]

Images for each edition, text to describe each edition.

[Gameplay header ((s), "Story"; "Gameplay"; etc)), text or image]

Images when necessary to show off gameplay elements, text for story and gameplay elements.

[Media]

Minimized pictures linking to larger pictures, links to videos, etc.

[Reviews]

Text and links. (Gaf reviews and user impressions should always be on top of the game journalist reviews)

[Credit]

Text.

 

[Retro_]

From now on every OT must explain the ESRB rating system

 

[RDreamer]

Images break, images can't be ctrl+f'd to search for information, images cannot be copy-pasted, images take much longer to load, images can't be zoomed like text, etc etc.

I'm fine with images being used as headers and whatnot, but when EVERYTHING is in an image? That's no good.

Sure, I'm with you that you should probably use more words than words in images, and I think some of these epic OTs would if it weren't for the character limit. But anyway, yeah images break, but that's really a problem with the OP using a bad host or something. I just reread the MGS4 OT the other day. That game was released 3 years ago. If the images start breaking now, then I don't think it really matters.

Practicality.

Like how FAQs are separated by sections with unique number-letter combinations so one can use control-f to quickly access the information they need

You do realize in the AC OT you can click the relevant section and quickly get to the post quicker than you could copy a section name, press ctrl-f, ctrl-v, and then get to your section. So, it's actually quicker.

With one image containing multiple pieces of information, it's hard to efficiently navigate towards the information you need. Which seems to be the biggest complaint with the assassin creed OT

Yeah, you should definitely use separate images for separate pieces of information and have things sufficiently linked in the first post so that people can get there. I'd never argue against such a thing

If it's not efficient then that defeats the purpose. If I'm going to scroll through 20 OT posts for new info I might as well just skim recent pages in the thread to see if anyone posted the new patch notes or whatever

Again, you don't have to scroll through them. Unless you can't read those links on the first post in that OT, then you have no need to scroll through everything if all you want is, say, multiplayer information.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

serious I think people need to grow some balls, go back to the thread and look at it again. Of course you won't like it, too late for that but you might actually realise most complaints are invalid.

It's honestly somewhat offensive to me that you've concluded that you've somehow done a good job instead of taking this opportunity to learn anything.

 

[Irish]

It's honestly somewhat offensive to me that you've concluded that you've somehow done a good job instead of taking this opportunity to learn anything.

Nah, he has recognized some parts he could have done differently, such as the text in images. He was just pointing out that several of the complaints are actually unjustified. For example, the people who are having a hard time finding things didn't even check the very first post...

 

[RDreamer]

About that- Here was the entire Brohood manual:

Yeah, and stuff like this really sucks. I like reading information about the games I'm buying in a nice well done way, and if the gaming companies aren't going to give me it in manuals, then it's nice to have something like that around here.

 

[Boss Doggie]

It's honestly somewhat offensive to me that you've concluded that you've somehow done a good job instead of taking this opportunity to learn anything.

When everyone's wowing you in the official thread, that's the case.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

It's fine for the OP to contain images. We just don't want blocks of text displayed as images. There are a ton of drawbacks to displaying text online in this fashion for not a lot of benefit. Images for screenshots, character art, and logos are fine.

 

[iNvid02]

It's honestly somewhat offensive to me that you've concluded that you've somehow done a good job instead of taking this opportunity to learn anything.

some people liked it. Others hated it. Some didn't even understand it fully and decided to hate it.

You think I need to learn YOUR preferences on how an OT should look like.

 

[RDreamer]

It's fine for the OP to contain images. We just don't want blocks of text displayed as images. There are a ton of drawbacks to displaying text online in this fashion for not a lot of benefit. Images for screenshots, character art, and logos are fine.

So shouldn't we realistically be complaining about the character limit on these posts and not necessarily about the people trying to make a kickass OT? He's said he' do a lot of that text in posts, but then he'd be forced into even more posts, and then the linking wouldn't work with the first post, and it just wouldn't be quite as good. He's doing the best with what he has to work with.

 

[fernoca]

the image text is a valid complaint yes, I did it because it was that or use regular text which goes on longer vertically.

The point that keeps popping up is you can't search for info, I doubt anyone here wanted to search for anything or even copy/paste anything from the thread, just complaining because it's not an option.

The links in post 1 means these stories of oh noezz I'm drowning in info are just untrue

Yep, that too. And if you divide everything, line by line it looks even worse... :/

So, I ended with something that looks like this:

When I wanted it to look like this:

Which made the summaries also look even weirder..

 

[Card Boy]

A good example of an approach to an OT: banners and headers, with thumbnailed images as necessary. Otherwise, really, everything else should be text based and searchable.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449553

Took me 10 minutes tops. Spent a couple minutes trying to work out how to do bulletins in BB code.

This is all you need

 

[Parallax Scroll]

So shouldn't we realistically be complaining about the character limit on these posts and not necessarily about the people trying to make a kickass OT? He's said he' do a lot of that text in posts, but then he'd be forced into even more posts, and then the linking wouldn't work with the first post, and it just wouldn't be quite as good. He's doing the best with what he has to work with.

The Assassins Creed OP is shit for lots of other reasons, but I'm picking my battles. If I can convince people to stop rendering text as a jpeg that's good enough for me.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Just because some people like it doesn't mean you can't learn something from those who disliked it though.

This thread might feel like scaring people not to make an OT... which, yeah, I guess is good. Don't do one until you pretty much see the good examples and base the design from them.

So shouldn't we realistically be complaining about the character limit on these posts and not necessarily about the people trying to make a kickass OT? He's said he' do a lot of that text in posts, but then he'd be forced into even more posts, and then the linking wouldn't work with the first post, and it just wouldn't be quite as good. He's doing the best with what he has to work with.

You're already doing it wrong if you really need to fill the post limit though. I think even going up to three posts is overkill.

Concise yet condense.

 

[Retro_]

Again, you don't have to scroll through them. Unless you can't read those links on the first post in that OT, then you have no need to scroll through everything if all you want is, say, multiplayer information.

I'm not really trying to pick on the AC OT too much.

but to address this point I guess I'd argue that the links aren't specific enough

clicking "single player" takes me to this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=32488013&postcount=3

So I'm still left to scrolling through a bunch of images trying to find the section for characters or gameplay or whatever. Instead of just being able to ctrl-f "characters"

 

[iNvid02]

So shouldn't we realistically be complaining about the character limit on these posts and not necessarily about the people trying to make a kickass OT? He's said he' do a lot of that text in posts, but then he'd be forced into even more posts, and then the linking wouldn't work with the first post, and it just wouldn't be quite as good. He's doing the best with what he has to work with.

Not only that but it would be endless scrolling evause you can't put txt side by side like in images.

Then the argument would be just cut down on info, but for a series like this it's hard to cut out stuff as its massively story dependant and complex

 

[Shanadeus]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449553

Took me 10 minutes tops. Spent a couple minutes trying to work out how to do bulletins in BB code.

This is all you need

As someone with a history of making OTs, you have my approval.
Making good and informative OTs is very much like painting:

Throwing a bunch of colours onto your canvas and going wild with all the different sized brushes you have is one way of doing it - and sometimes the end-result is a coherent masterpiece (other times it's a big confusing mess)

On the other end of the spectrum, you use a very small number of brushes and very little paint - for a simple and clean artwork.

 

[Irish]

The one thing that I guess could be done is editing in a plain-text version of each header under the picture. Then people could find exactly what they are looking for within each section.

It's actually an extremely quick fix that would cut down approximately 50% of the bitching, I guess.

 

[Kaltagesta]

Funny how no one says any of this in the threads in question.

 

[Shanadeus]

Funny how no one says any of this in the threads in question.

That would be rude/trolling and probably result in a ban.

 

[Retro_]

Funny how no one says any of this in the threads in question.

because that would derail the thread from its purpose

 

[daycru]

All that work to promote a product you won't see a dime from. I don't get it.

 

[Card Boy]

Funny how no one says any of this in the threads in question.

Because it would be considered trolling and those threads are about the game in question?

edit: beaten X2

 

[iNvid02]

If the or posts could be regular HTML instead of bbcode all would
Be solved. But right now it's either. Txtimages or lots of vertical scrolling and wasted space

 

[TheKaeptain]

Oh I agree OP. AssCreed:R thread is dumb.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

If the or posts could be regular HTML instead of bbcode all would
Be solved. But right now it's either. Txtimages or lots of vertical scrolling and wasted space

or you could not put all that stupid shit in the thread

 

[fernoca]

All that work to promote a product you won't see a dime from. I don't get it.

Guess you missed the memo, we do get paid. At least I found out in this thread, so guess my checks are waiting. Though 3 of my 4 OTs are small, so those checks will be small.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Here's my attempt at an OT (the only OT in gaming I made), not the best example but it's still concise and condensed to a single page with all of the information needed.

Funny how no one says any of this in the threads in question.

Trolling. And you're pretty much expecting the responses to be like "stop whining", etc. as seen on the AssCreed thread.

 

[RooMHM]

Isn't there a way to make the less important parts in spoiler form? I mean put a scrolling menu or something so that OP's are only one post long.

 

[Irish]

If the or posts could be regular HTML instead of bbcode all would
Be solved. But right now it's either. Txtimages or lots of vertical scrolling and wasted space

Just put the headings in plain text beneath or above the picture version of the heading name. Seems like that would help.

 

[iNvid02]

or you could not put all that stupid shit in the thread

Like I said before its almost all relevant, you just don't know it because you don't have a fucking clue about the series.

 

[WillyFive]

Isn't there a way to make the less important parts in spoiler form? I mean put a scrolling menu or something so that OP's are only one post long.

The NeoGAF editor is not that advanced. We only have bb codes to do stuff, so we can't even left align an image and put text vertically and horizontally centered on the right of it.

I wanted to do something like that for the Star Fox 64 OT (to make it seem like an in-game conversation), but it wasn't possible without having it be a picture, so I abandoned it.

 

[RDreamer]

Just put the headings in plain text beneath or above the picture version of the heading name. Seems like that would help.

Yeah, this would work and should satisfy both sides

 

[Boss Doggie]

Like I said before its almost all relevant, you just don't know it because you don't have a fucking clue about the series.

You do know a lot of (much more well-written) movies that have the same thing can pretty much summarize the events before in a simple synopsis?

 

[Kaltagesta]

because that would derail the thread from its purpose

That would be rude/trolling and probably result in a ban.

Because it would be considered trolling and those threads are about the game in question?

edit: beaten X2

I don't think it has to be rude, not if conducted in an intelligent and sensible way. And I don't see why saying negative things about OP's are any less damaging to the direction of the thread than the usual "EPIC OT!!!" posts that usual fill the first four or five pages of any given OT.

It just seems odd, given how the almost unanimous sentiment in this thread seems to be "Yeah, they're a waste of time", when all the threads are filled with is unadulterated praise. This isn't school, we don't all have to be best friends - passing judgement on something should be equally "allowed" whether that judgement is positive or negative.

 

[iNvid02]

Just put the headings in plain text beneath or above the picture version of the heading name. Seems like that would help.

I could, but the people who are whining about no search never actually wanted it, they just wanted to complain about it not being an option. For future threads sure, it's probably the best solution

 

[Boss Doggie]

I don't think it has to be rude, not if conducted in an intelligent and sensible way. And I don't see why saying negative things about OP's are any less damaging to the direction of the thread than the usual "EPIC OT!!!" posts that usual fill the first four or five pages of any given OT.

It just seems odd, given how the almost unanimous sentiment in this thread seems to be "Yeah, they're a waste of time", when all the threads are filled with is unadulterated praise. This isn't school, we don't all have to be best friends - passing judgement on something should be equally "allowed" whether that judgement is positive or negative.

Welcome to GAF.

But seriously, people did try that and you already saw the replies.

 

[Psychotext]

I though the OP was exaggerating about the mousewheel RSI... until I actually opened the thread.

Damn!

/wheelwheelwheel