Borderlands 4 |OT| It's about time. Literally.

Never played any of the Borderlands. Started reading this thread and of course it's nothing but hate. Hate for a game that hasn't even released yet. Sometimes I wonder if people actually like gaming. Hoping the game bombs? How is that good for anyone? Just don't get it.
 
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acekard said:
One of the playtesters in his video mentioned he was getting about 30-40FPS on medium settings 1440P with his 4080 GPU, and about 60-70 with framegen. That is an atrocious performance for a game that looks pretty much the same as BL3
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If this is true, i dont see how it can run on a switch 2.
 
When does the embargo lift on this? B3 was a disappointment, and I have very little faith in this game. It's gonna have to pull some damn numbers to get me interested.
 
acekard said:
One of the playtesters in his video mentioned he was getting about 30-40FPS on medium settings 1440P with his 4080 GPU, and about 60-70 with framegen. That is an atrocious performance for a game that looks pretty much the same as BL3
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"U get over 60 with framegen so it feels great. "

Yea that's not how any of this works buddy.
 
Corporal.Hicks said:
People have played games at 30 fps for decades. The latest DLSS FG technology adds only about 2ms if implemented well. You won't notice an additional 2 ms, but there's a huge improvement in smoothness and motion clarity between 30fps and generated 60fps. When I tried playing Cyberpunk at 30 fps with FG (60 fps generated), it was much easier for my eyes to track movement. I believe DLSS FG might actually doing something to improve input response, because my accuracy and aiming felt more comparable to 60 fps than to 30 fps and that wasnt the case when I used FSR FG.
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I disagree with everything you said but opinions and all that.
 
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I love me some Borderlands, especially the first and second one. And i quite enjoyed the Pre-Sequel as well. 3 I enjoyed the gunplay but not the characters or humor, at all. They failed hard with that one.

I really hope that has greatly improved for 4. The gameplay itself looks great with new additions such as the gliding and stuff. Please have genuinely funny characters and just overall humor and not trash humor like 3.
 
Corporal.Hicks said:
Can you provide any arguments to support your opinion? If not, your opinion is worthless.
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Ok mate, yours is also worthless to me. That's how opinions work.

AI response as I dont have time to search the internet.

"For a good experience with frame generation, a base frame rate of at least 60 FPS is generally recommended before enabling the technology, as lower base frame rates can lead to more prominent visual artifacts, pacing issues, and increased latency, especially for mouse input. The ideal base frame rate can vary by game and monitor, but aiming for 50-60 FPS before frame generation is a common sweet spot for visual quality and responsiveness."
 
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Stafford said:
I love me some Borderlands, especially the first and second one. And i quite enjoyed the Pre-Sequel as well. 3 I enjoyed the gunplay but not the characters or humor, at all. They failed hard with that one.

I really hope that has greatly improved for 4. The gameplay itself looks great with new additions such as the gliding and stuff. Please have genuinely funny characters and just overall humor and not trash humor like 3.
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B3 has some of the worst writing in the biz, but like you I enjoyed the gameplay/loot loop. The twins were some of the most insufferable characters I've ever seen. I mean, you're supposed to hate the bad guys, but not because they're so poorly written and characterized.

Wonderlands was almost as bad in the writing department, but again the gameplay loop saved it for me.

It's always been fps Diablo with guns, and that formula really clicks for me, even with the shit writing.
 
MCasey said:
Never played any of the Borderlands. Started reading this thread and of course it's nothing but hate. Hate for a game that hasn't even released yet. Sometimes I wonder if people actually like gaming. Hoping the game bombs? How is that good for anyone? Just don't get it.
Click to expand...
It's not going to bomb. This franchise has quite a large dedicated following, and from everything I've seen so far, it looks miles better than BL3. Their marketing has been solid, not worried about it at all. Haters will find some shite to criticise though. I'll be too busy playing the game to care.
 
Corporal.Hicks said:
People have played games at 30 fps for decades. The latest DLSS FG technology adds only about 2ms if implemented well. You won't notice an additional 2 ms, but there's a huge improvement in smoothness and motion clarity between 30fps and generated 60fps.
Click to expand...
I'd like a source, please.

Nvidia's frame gen works by inserting AI-interpolated frames between real ones, which means the game is effectively running at least one frame behind. If a game is running at 30 fps, that's about 33 ms of extra latency on top (not including the additional processing of the interpolation frame), since the generated frames don't contain new input.

You might think that something like Nvidia Reflex helps mitigate that, but it's not significant, especially when using frame gen at lower base framerates. Reflex uses JIT processing to submit frames just before scanout, cutting queue-induced latency. That reduces the delay from CPU and GPU waiting on each other, but it doesn't fix the core issue: the generated frames are still based on old input. So the game feels as responsive as the base framerate, even if the motion looks smoother.

Reflex Frame Warp is the only part that actually touches inputs, re-warping the final image with the latest mouse data before scanout. But even with that, the latency (especially when coming from a ~30fps source) is still going to be, at best, around 30 added ms. And in most cases, it's actually quite a lot more, according to the testing from DF as of roughly a year ago.

In short, it is absolutely NOT an "added 2 ms of latency", especially at a lower framerate source. I believe you're talking out of your ass. I'm happy to be proven wrong, but I'd like sources and data to back up your claims.
 
ClanOfNone said:
B3 has some of the worst writing in the biz, but like you I enjoyed the gameplay/loot loop. The twins were some of the most insufferable characters I've ever seen. I mean, you're supposed to hate the bad guys, but not because they're so poorly written and characterized.

Wonderlands was almost as bad in the writing department, but again the gameplay loop saved it for me.

It's always been fps Diablo with guns, and that formula really clicks for me, even with the shit writing.
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Yup! Well the thing with hating bad Guys is, I absolutely loved when Handsome Jack was talking in 2 and TPS, awesome villain and genuinely funny as hell. I just couldn't hate him.

True, most writing is bad in TTW but I do find some of the enemies very funny like the shit talking skeletons/zombies and those Mushroom guys are just awesome, lol.
 
acekard said:
One of the playtesters in his video mentioned he was getting about 30-40FPS on medium settings 1440P with his 4080 GPU, and about 60-70 with framegen. That is an atrocious performance for a game that looks pretty much the same as BL3
Click to expand...

The fact that is also look like shit is the ice on the cake.

I can forgive some performance problem if your game look like state of the art but this thing looks barely better than bd3 that already looked mid as hell.
 
I'm kind of locked into this as I probably pre-ordered it over 2 months ago and the refund. Is probably done with. But I did have to have a chuckle there as that Bert was all about that Randy pittsford and loving gearbox I'm with you on not minding gearbox but loving randy? Let's draw a line there my brother.

I don't pre-order a lot and was looking for a few games to pre-order and that was one of the two that I decided alongside final fantasy tactics and then subsequently got battlefield 6.

I think next year will be a legitimately better year in general with Squadron 42 and GTA 6 alone for me. And given that I'm working on the whole Yakuza series right now and I'm up to three, I know they're probably going to announce another game in the series.
 
MCasey said:
Never played any of the Borderlands. Started reading this thread and of course it's nothing but hate. Hate for a game that hasn't even released yet. Sometimes I wonder if people actually like gaming. Hoping the game bombs? How is that good for anyone? Just don't get it.
Click to expand...

The reality is there's a lot of sad, bitter people here. Best to just ignore them and move on.
 
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Stafford said:
Yup! Well the thing with hating bad Guys is, I absolutely loved when Handsome Jack was talking in 2 and TPS, awesome villain and genuinely funny as hell. I just couldn't hate him.

True, most writing is bad in TTW but I do find some of the enemies very funny like the shit talking skeletons/zombies and those Mushroom guys are just awesome, lol.
Click to expand...

Also most of the time the games have great soundtracks. 1 and 2 both did (2 especially). 3's I found completely forgettable.

I always turn the voice acting off anyways. These are some of the best podcast/spotify games.

Definitely will get it eventually once I finish playing catch up with every other new release lol
 
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analog_future said:
The reality is there's a lot of sad, bitter people here. Best to just ignore them and move on.
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I'm last person hate on game before releases but FPS where performance is critical that's getting feedback that performance is bad yeah hope bombs because loved borderlands games spent 100s hours in them and they need learn a game needs to be optimised before release WE ARE NOT BETA TESTERS WE ARE GAMERS FOR FUCK SAKE.
 
Sgt.Asher said:
I'll wait for impressions. The writing in BL3 was so bad, i couldn't stand to play another character.

Based on the character showcase videos, it's not going to be much different.
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What! You mean you don't like Tiny Tina?

Whos Ready Dnd GIF by Tiny Tina's Wonderlands


Disgusted Cat GIF
 
MCasey said:
Never played any of the Borderlands. Started reading this thread and of course it's nothing but hate. Hate for a game that hasn't even released yet. Sometimes I wonder if people actually like gaming. Hoping the game bombs? How is that good for anyone? Just don't get it.
Click to expand...
Borderlands was a grounded shooter based in a wasteland of planet, the plot was kind OK and the character and most NPC were likable and the shoot and loot was something new at the time.

Bordelands 2 was grounded too with the correct amount of jokes, with waaaay better writing and characters than the first game and one of the best villains in gaming ( imo ), the gunplay was a huge improvement over the first one, everything was an improvement, DragonKeep is one of the best DLC in gaming story.

Borderlands 3 started the "every thing is a joke", its a non stop barrage of bad joke every 10 second, also the game introduced one of the worse characters in all series ( Ava ) and the most annoying villains in video game history ( Callipso Twins ). The only thing that was a improvement over 2 was the gameplay, the Vault Hunters were great too, aside that everything else was a downhill and I ll not even talk about Tiny Tina solo game.

BL4 at the moment its looking close to BL3 than BL1/2, so there is just so much faith one can have before turn into a non-believer and thats why everyone is on a hate train, BL3 almost killed the franchise for a lot of ppl, they killed a lot of good characters for no reason, they gave voice to annoying characters that didn't deserve it and the writing is awful.
 
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Please, no more shitty dialogue, please no more shitty dialogue, please 🙏
Can't stand playing 30 hours with another BL3 that forced me to mute the damn thing because it was unbearable
 
Holding off until I get some more info on how it runs. Everything else looks and sounds good. Luckily I play on 1080p so I don't need a powerhouse.
 
Cautiously optimistic. Always loved the structure of these games and especially the weapon variety. Hopefully lessons have been learned and the dialogue will at least be tolerable again. As soon as we have feedback about the performance and dialogue this should be a pretty easy purchase decision for me. Fingers crossed.
 
MCasey said:
Never played any of the Borderlands. Started reading this thread and of course it's nothing but hate. Hate for a game that hasn't even released yet. Sometimes I wonder if people actually like gaming. Hoping the game bombs? How is that good for anyone? Just don't get it.
Click to expand...
Hating on Borderlands and Final Fantasy is the cool thing to do for a lot of people on Gaf…I just put them on ignore. Most are just trolls trying to stir shit up, don't feed them.
 
Lokaum D+ said:
Borderlands was a grounded shooter based in a wasteland of planet, the plot was kind OK and the character and most NPC were likable and the shoot and loot was something new at the time.

Bordelands 2 was grounded too with the correct amount of jokes, with waaaay better writing and characters than the first game and one of the best villains in gaming ( imo ), the gunplay was a huge improvement over the first one, everything was an improvement, DragonKeep is one of the best DLC in gaming story.

Borderlands 3 started the "every thing is a joke", its a non stop barrage of bad joke every 10 second, also the game introduced one of the worse characters in all series ( Ava ) and the most annoying villains in video game history ( Callipso Twins ). The only thing that was a improvement over 2 was the gameplay, the Vault Hunters were great too, aside that everything else was a downhill and I ll not even talk about Tiny Tina solo game.

BL4 at the moment its looking close to BL3 than BL1/2, so there is just so much faith one can have before turn into a non-believer and thats why everyone is on a hate train, BL3 almost killed the franchise for a lot of ppl, they killed a lot of good characters for no reason, they gave voice to annoying characters that didn't deserve it and the writing is awful.
Click to expand...

I would never use the word "grounded" to describe any of the Borderlands games. Even the first game opens with a goofy bus driver and then Claptrap.
 
analog_future said:
I would never use the word "grounded" to describe any of the Borderlands games. Even the first game opens with a goofy bus driver and then Claptrap.
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Jokes and humor were more spread out in BL1 as opposed to every couple minutes. What BL1 had more of was atmosphere. Exploring Pandora in BL1 was so good. The writing and humor in BL3 and Wonderlands was nonsensical all the time like a never ending Tik Tok Zoomer reel you couldn't turn off.
 
After the audio in 3, I hope they told the audio director to stop with all the yelling. Torgue is fine, that's his character, but when everyone does it, the dialog becomes that much more painful.
 
clarky said:
Ok mate, yours is also worthless to me. That's how opinions work.

AI response as I dont have time to search the internet.

"For a good experience with frame generation, a base frame rate of at least 60 FPS is generally recommended before enabling the technology, as lower base frame rates can lead to more prominent visual artifacts, pacing issues, and increased latency, especially for mouse input. The ideal base frame rate can vary by game and monitor, but aiming for 50-60 FPS before frame generation is a common sweet spot for visual quality and responsiveness."
Click to expand...
Ahh that classic "I dont have a time" excuse. In order to defend your own opinion, you had to ask the AI for help.

I remember testing DLSS3 and anything above 40fps worked perfectly smooth, while framerate below 40fps caused long stutters. However, Nvidia has improved frame generation with DLSS 4, which now calculates everything using Tensor cores. With DLSS 4 FG, it was no longer necessary to disable VSync, and drops below 40 fps no longer caused stuttering.

Here are the latency measurements in Cyberpunk. I forced VSync in NVCP because for some strange reason, it improves the experience with DLSS4 FG instead of ruining it, as was the case with DLSS3 FG. I also capped framerate with RTSS and "reflex" framelimiter mode instead of default "async" (async adds 100ms lag and makes FG games unplayable). Look for the Nvidia OSD in the top-right corner.

Real 60fps - 29.8ms latency


Real 30fps - 43.1ms latency


DLSS FG 60fps (30fps input framerate) - 45.5ms latency


There's only a 2ms difference between 30fps and generated 60fps. If someone doesn't believe my measurements in Cyberpunk, I recommend watching this video. It's timestamped. This YouTuber was surprised to learn that DLSS FG didn't increase input latency.



A 2 ms latency difference is in the realm of placebo, while 2x higher framerate drastically improve perceived smoothness and clarity of motion. Generated 60fps also eliminate the 30fps judder, so you dont even need to use ingame motion blur filter to hide it. I tried playing Cyberpunk at 60 fps for a few minutes and it was definitely a much better experience than playing the game at 30 fps. Even though latency didn't change that much, it was much easier for my eyes to track moving objects and my aim was also more accurate (much closer to real 60fps than 30fps). I think many console games would be convinced that they are playing at a real 60 fps.

Personally I usally use FG to play with 70fps and that gives me around 120fps generated, but this technology is definitely usable at lower framerate as well. I even played Black Myth Wukong and Alan Wake 2 with Path Tracing at generated 80-100fps and my experience was amazing.
 
Corporal.Hicks said:
Ahh that classic "I dont have a time" excuse. In order to defend your own opinion, you had to ask the AI for help.

I remember testing DLSS3 and anything above 40fps worked perfectly smooth, while framerate below 40fps caused long stutters. However, Nvidia has improved frame generation with DLSS 4, which now calculates everything using Tensor cores. With DLSS 4 FG, it was no longer necessary to disable VSync, and drops below 40 fps no longer caused stuttering.

Here are the latency measurements in Cyberpunk. I forced VSync in NVCP because for some strange reason, it improves the experience with DLSS4 FG instead of ruining it, as was the case with DLSS3 FG. I also capped framerate with RTSS and "reflex" framelimiter mode instead of default "async" (async adds 100ms lag and makes FG games unplayable). Look for the Nvidia OSD in the top-right corner.

Real 60fps - 29.8ms latency


Real 30fps - 43.1ms latency


DLSS FG 60fps (30fps input framerate) - 45.5ms latency


There's only a 2ms difference between 30fps and generated 60fps. If someone doesn't believe my measurements in Cyberpunk, I recommend watching this video. It's timestamped. This YouTuber was surprised to learn that DLSS FG didn't increase input latency.



A 2 ms latency difference is in the realm of placebo, while 2x higher framerate drastically improve perceived smoothness and clarity of motion. Generated 60fps also eliminate the 30fps judder, so you dont even need to use ingame motion blur filter to hide it. I tried playing Cyberpunk at 60 fps for a few minutes and it was definitely a much better experience than playing the game at 30 fps. Even though latency didn't change that much, it was much easier for my eyes to track moving objects and my aim was also more accurate (much closer to real 60fps than 30fps). I think many console games would be convinced that they are playing at a real 60 fps.

Personally I usally use FG to play with 70fps and that gives me around 120fps generated, but this technology is definitely usable at lower framerate as well. I even played Black Myth Wukong and Alan Wake 2 with Path Tracing at generated 80-100fps and my experience was amazing.
Click to expand...

Working mate. Try playing F1 2025 or Doom DA at 30 base fps and tell me your having a good experience.

Generate as many frames as you like it will still feel like shit.

I have a 4090 and a 5080 btw. Its great tech if you have a high enough base frame rate but it doesn't magically fix dogshit.
 
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Corporal.Hicks said:
Ahh that classic "I dont have a time" excuse. In order to defend your own opinion, you had to ask the AI for help.

I remember testing DLSS3 and anything above 40fps worked perfectly smooth, while framerate below 40fps caused long stutters. However, Nvidia has improved frame generation with DLSS 4, which now calculates everything using Tensor cores. With DLSS 4 FG, it was no longer necessary to disable VSync, and drops below 40 fps no longer caused stuttering.

Here are the latency measurements in Cyberpunk. I forced VSync in NVCP because for some strange reason, it improves the experience with DLSS4 FG instead of ruining it, as was the case with DLSS3 FG. I also capped framerate with RTSS and "reflex" framelimiter mode instead of default "async" (async adds 100ms lag and makes FG games unplayable). Look for the Nvidia OSD in the top-right corner.

Real 60fps - 29.8ms latency


Real 30fps - 43.1ms latency


DLSS FG 60fps (30fps input framerate) - 45.5ms latency


There's only a 2ms difference between 30fps and generated 60fps. If someone doesn't believe my measurements in Cyberpunk, I recommend watching this video. It's timestamped. This YouTuber was surprised to learn that DLSS FG didn't increase input latency.



A 2 ms latency difference is in the realm of placebo, while 2x higher framerate drastically improve perceived smoothness and clarity of motion. Generated 60fps also eliminate the 30fps judder, so you dont even need to use ingame motion blur filter to hide it. I tried playing Cyberpunk at 60 fps for a few minutes and it was definitely a much better experience than playing the game at 30 fps. Even though latency didn't change that much, it was much easier for my eyes to track moving objects and my aim was also more accurate (much closer to real 60fps than 30fps). I think many console games would be convinced that they are playing at a real 60 fps.

Personally I usally use FG to play with 70fps and that gives me around 120fps generated, but this technology is definitely usable at lower framerate as well. I even played Black Myth Wukong and Alan Wake 2 with Path Tracing at generated 80-100fps and my experience was amazing.
Click to expand...


You trippin if you think 60fps FG is anything but absolute dog shit. I'd rather play at 30 fps with stutters than deal with that input lag
 
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