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Breaking Bad - Season 5 interim thread - the series concludes Summer 2013 on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
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And tried to kill Walt with a piece of a broken plate
Dude had a shard of glass ready to slice Walt's throat open.
All walt had to do was.....step back a couple of steps.
Ok, and then what? Keep feeding the guy and hope he never escapes or no one ever discovers him?
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Even though Walt didn't kill them directly, you kind of have to give him credit for the prison deaths.
I'm just saying, it wasn't really self defense. He sorta just said, fuck it I'll kill him now I guess.
What I never understood about Fly haters was that I think every single person who watches this show would agree that the best moments in the show are Walt+Jesse moments. And that's an entire episode of Walt+Jesse! Plus it has some of the best physical comedy in the series in the first half and some great writing in the latter half.
10 guys, in separate instances in 2 minutes. That's some serious mastermind shit
Along with Jane.
dave is ok
aztek is ok
Eh, that wasn't first degree
The suspense in the latter half was just amazing. I really hope we get another calmer and more subtle episode...though that's probably quite unlikely, considering the cold open of S5.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The only bad thing I could say about Fly is that I had heard about it being this amazing episode, and I think that messed up my expectations a little.
Oh, and *totally* Jane. it was her death that was the breaking point for me between "Walt's actions are justifiable" and seeing him as a bad guy.
Oh, and *totally* Jane. it was her death that was the breaking point for me between "Walt's actions are justifiable" and seeing him as a bad guy.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Maybe some people just don't like Fly because it doesn't move the plot along at all and there's a bunch of buildup to Walt telling Jesse about Jane and it doesn't happen. It's a good enough episode in its own right, but the fact that it's underrated has led to it being incredibly overrated by some people. I like Fly, but there are a dozen BB episodes I'd rather watch again.
Yeah I never really understood why it's hated so much and loved so much at the same time. I think it's a pretty good episode, but not even the best in Season 3 or anything.
gutter_trash
Banned
the Fly episode is an awesome episode.
It showcaases Walt's obsessive nature.
It showcaases Walt's obsessive nature.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
The Fly was probably a much different experience when you waited a week to see it, saw it, and waited a week for the next episode.
Still, I like it quite a bit. Shows how nuts Walter is, even when he's in control.
Still, I like it quite a bit. Shows how nuts Walter is, even when he's in control.
Steelyuhas
Member
Yes, absolutely.
KINGofCRA5H
Member
So. Much. More. Walt's transformation is fascinating to watch.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
A TON more. Like, it's not even the focus, it's really just the spark for the fuse.
PezDispenser
Banned
I don't think that's true at all, in fact it's the opposite. Most of the actual criticisms of Skyler that I've seen have more to do with her comparatively weaker actor or condescending attitude, but somehow or another that all gets interpreted as blind, seething hatred by a group of people who like to label others as dysfunctional for having a differing opinion. Go figure.
I thought the exact same as you when my mate first told me about it.
Trust me, it's much much more.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I would say most of the Skylar criticism has just been that she's a "bitch," so maybe both sides are just overly defensive.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Random "I hate Skyler/she's a bitch" comments are what prolongs the discussion.
BobTheFork
Member
They are just comments. What prolongs is are all the people trying to say you are a misogynist or for some reason you don't have a right to hate the character.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I have a different perspective. I knew "Skyler is a bitch" before I even knew who she was or what show she was on, thanks to the constant complains about her. And I even agreed, for the first few episodes.
Then I kept watching, waiting for her to do something that engendered such hate that it was known well outside the show. It never happened.
So it's not about trying to make people who hate Skyler wrong, it's about how vocal those people are.
Then I kept watching, waiting for her to do something that engendered such hate that it was known well outside the show. It never happened.
So it's not about trying to make people who hate Skyler wrong, it's about how vocal those people are.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I had the same feeling watching Mad Men after hearing the complaints about Betty Draper.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I could see that.
I didn't star to hate Betty until she starting getting really nasty to Sally, but that seems to have passed. Anything she does to/toward Don is justified.
It's not so much that she does anything particularly awful. Her character can be a bit annoying at times, though.
It doesn't really get that way until a bit later.
I think she's a solid character.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
Only bad thing she did was fuck Ted. Other then she mostly has a point.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
I don't even see why that was so bad. She was basically through with Walt by that point; the only reason they were still married is that Walt refused to sign the divorce papers. She wasn't obligated to be chaste in that context.
Cornballer
Member
The cake at the premiere party last night:
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Not only that, she was trying to force Walt's hand.
PezDispenser
Banned
I don't see why. In any other discussion of any other TV show, it's not uncommon to see comments like, "I hate character X!" or "character Y is a bitch!". What makes Skylar such an exclusive case where we can apparently draw such far-reaching conclusions about the personal lives of anyone who makes those kinds of statements about her?
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
It's enough of a phenomenon that the show creator has spoken about it several times.
And I'm not making conclusions about anyone, just that the hate is out of scale with anything she's done on the show.
PezDispenser
Banned
I'm aware that Vince Gilligan made a comment about misogyny, and I'm sure a lot of the accusation-slinging is due to some kind of bandwagoning effect, but for me personally, "because Vince Gilligan said so!" isn't anywhere near a reasonable justification for the routine shaming of anyone who doesn't like a fictional character.
I dunno how I feel about Skyler.
She's so complicated it's difficult to tell how or what I'm supposed to feel about her, or even where my problems with the character as written end and where my problems with Gunn as an actress begin. Or if those are even problems at all and not just intentional.
In some ways, it feels like my ambivalence toward her initially just came from the fact that most of her sidestories felt more like detours from the main plot or slowed it down. There's no doubt that they were often necessary detours, but that didn't change the fact that her slow realization that Walt was a psycho felt perfunctory to me. Once she started joining in on his conspiracy, it felt like that issue of her slowing things down resolved somewhat.
I think another issue with her is that she sort of comes to the conclusion that Walt is a monster and abandons him before the audience maybe is willing to make the same conclusion. Her "leaving" Walt in S2/3 is good for dramatic and narrative purposes, but leaves the audience in a weird lurch in terms of allocating sympathy (of which Skyler should garner a lot, but her portrayal leaves me conflicted). It's almost completely justified on her part, but that tension between them boils over onto the audience, which makes us uncomfortable (and the marital problems maybe hit too close to home).
But then, I kinda feel like that that's the point. Arrgh, I dunno.
She's so complicated it's difficult to tell how or what I'm supposed to feel about her, or even where my problems with the character as written end and where my problems with Gunn as an actress begin. Or if those are even problems at all and not just intentional.
In some ways, it feels like my ambivalence toward her initially just came from the fact that most of her sidestories felt more like detours from the main plot or slowed it down. There's no doubt that they were often necessary detours, but that didn't change the fact that her slow realization that Walt was a psycho felt perfunctory to me. Once she started joining in on his conspiracy, it felt like that issue of her slowing things down resolved somewhat.
I think another issue with her is that she sort of comes to the conclusion that Walt is a monster and abandons him before the audience maybe is willing to make the same conclusion. Her "leaving" Walt in S2/3 is good for dramatic and narrative purposes, but leaves the audience in a weird lurch in terms of allocating sympathy (of which Skyler should garner a lot, but her portrayal leaves me conflicted). It's almost completely justified on her part, but that tension between them boils over onto the audience, which makes us uncomfortable (and the marital problems maybe hit too close to home).
But then, I kinda feel like that that's the point. Arrgh, I dunno.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I was racting to the idea that "Skyler lovers drag this conversation out" (paraphrased) and I think that that's a specious assertion. I haven't been slinging the misogyny label at anyone. But I do think it's disingenous to say that there isn't a phenomenon of Skyler-hate, and that it's not warranted by how the character act if you took that character in real-world terms.
EDIT: Tookay, I think that's a large part of the reason she's hated, not misogyny. I think there's some misogyny in the mix, but that's more like extra fuel and it hardly applies to all people who hate her. The main thing is that people identify with Walt, and she's an antagonist to Walt, and not in an action-y or exciting way, but a mundane way.
Cornballer
Member
I'd also argue that maybe it's the fact that it's so "realistic" (for lack of a better term) that rubs people the wrong way. Her situation's completely worthy of sympathy, but she's a complicated person that is difficult to completely relate to (and isn't a saint herself), especially because the anchor of the show is still Walt and we never know her quite the same way we know him.
There's also just decades/centuries of storytelling tropes and expectations ingrained in our heads telling us that we should relate to the protagonist and that anyone who opposes him (usually the antagonist) is worthy of our scorn, because they're holding back his progression. In traditional stories, that makes sense: a protagonist is righteous or moral, which means the people who oppose him are immoral. It's just that those expectations are somewhat flipped by the fact that Walt is a anti-hero/villian protagonist, so there's a conflict between the side that we're morally supposed to sympathize with (Skyler) and the side we're storytelling-wise supposed to sympathize with (the protagonist Walt).
Cornballer
Member
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