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Breaking Bad - Season 5 interim thread - the series concludes Summer 2013 on AMC
- Thread starter Cornballer
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Yeah, it's been pointed out that it sounds like bullets being slammed into a chamber by a number of different people.
I didn't catch it first time.
yea confusing wording but I was saying "does a person who's seen 1-5A really have any doubt in their mind that 5B will move them to tears and wreck their soul"
ThanksVision
Member
If I remember correctly, they'll be up at like 3AM EST. I was always able to watch the episodes I missed the next morning.
Nameless
Member
I'm curious as to when people started rooting against Walt. Jane? Brock? His being in asshole mode all of last season? I get the impression that most of BB-GAF is anti-Walt now.
Well, i think Walt is an horrible person and at this point deserves what's coming to him, but i also think it'd be interesting to close the show with a karmic imbalance, having Walt not paying for his crimes.
After all entertainment shouldn't just be about jerking off the audience and giving them what they want.
homelessbaby
Member
I'm only Anti-Walt insofar as how he treats Jesse. So when he manipulated Jesse into breaking up with Andrea, I wasn't happy.
He can pretty much do anything else as far as I'm concerned. I thought Walt was a lot less likable in earlier seasons, on rewatch. He's so mean and inconsiderate to Jesse. I almost prefer the calculated cruelty of Season 5 Walt vs. the mostly indifference towards Jesse as a human being of 1-4.
And yeah I'm anticipating a Vic Mackey-esque ending. Walt dying or going to jail is far too easy. Now, everyone around him? That, I could see.
He can pretty much do anything else as far as I'm concerned. I thought Walt was a lot less likable in earlier seasons, on rewatch. He's so mean and inconsiderate to Jesse. I almost prefer the calculated cruelty of Season 5 Walt vs. the mostly indifference towards Jesse as a human being of 1-4.
And yeah I'm anticipating a Vic Mackey-esque ending. Walt dying or going to jail is far too easy. Now, everyone around him? That, I could see.
Gray Matter was where I realized something was truly flawed in him that could turn him disgusting, after Jane I began to dislike him more than I liked him, by IFT I think I pretty roundly hated him and by Full Measure.
dammit if he isn't amazing to watch be so awful though.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
Why do we have to root against "bad guys" anyways? I'm not 10 years old. I can still cheer for Walt even though he's a reprehensible asshole. Rooting for villains is more fun anyways.
homelessbaby
Member
If you look at it from Walt's POV, he started out wanting to provide for his family independently. The Grey Matter people wronged him. His wife is controlling and uppity even when he's shown he can protect them. He loves Jesse and wants the best for him.
Like, apart from the kid in the desert that he had no control over, he's never killed an innocent. I believe him when he says it tears him up inside but he doesn't show it like Jesse. The Brock thing turned out okay and saved his and Jesse's lives. Jane is a grey area.
Mike has tried to kill Walt and Jesse several times. When Mike bemoans Walt killing Gus he forgets that Walt only fell out of favour for trying to help Jesse.
Walt isn't evil. Obviously he's doing everything for the wrong reasons at this point, but he's not Gus, killing kids instead of letting them quit. I wish Skylar (and I guess now Jesse) would let him in.
Like, apart from the kid in the desert that he had no control over, he's never killed an innocent. I believe him when he says it tears him up inside but he doesn't show it like Jesse. The Brock thing turned out okay and saved his and Jesse's lives. Jane is a grey area.
Mike has tried to kill Walt and Jesse several times. When Mike bemoans Walt killing Gus he forgets that Walt only fell out of favour for trying to help Jesse.
Walt isn't evil. Obviously he's doing everything for the wrong reasons at this point, but he's not Gus, killing kids instead of letting them quit. I wish Skylar (and I guess now Jesse) would let him in.
Hell yes!
homelessbaby
Member
Also I'd add that I do like good guys. Captain America and Ned Stark are refreshing. But Walt is neither, he's whatever he needs to be.
Yeah i don't know who i "root" for, to be honest (probably Jesse, Hank and Skyler), i just want the story to take interesting turns and not worry itself with karma and being sure to teach the "crime doesn't pay" lesson, treating the audience like kids.
Too many crime stories end in a predictable way because of that.
Yup. I'm just rooting for an awesome story. If anyone stands in the way of that, then they're expendable.
Except Jesse. He better live. :S
There's no ambiguity about Walt. Is this were a cop drama starring Hank, and Walt being the meth lord was the big twist at the end, there would be no question he's the bad guy. No one is born a villain, or just decides to become one without unfortunate circumstances. They're still villains though.
one reason I'm not too worried about breaking bad spoilers for this season is I feel everyone theorized so many possible endings so many times over (theories:
) that I won't necessarily be surprised by anything. All in the execution.
Supporting him is believing that his actions are justified and right. There are people who believe that. And it's insane. The things he does are explicitly portrayed as evil. He murders, manipulates, more. Agreeing with those actions is crazy. Wanting them to continue for the sake of a kickass story? 100% rational.
chemistry class flashback, cancer comes back, everyone dies but walt, etc
There's a difference between rooting and supporting though...like I "root" for Walt in the sense that this story would only be good if he kept getting more and more revolting, which it did. And as a viewer, I would hate for him to choose the "good" choice because it likely wouldn't feel organic and it wouldn't be as compelling.
Supporting him is believing that his actions are justified and right. There are people who believe that. And it's insane. The things he does are explicitly portrayed as evil. He murders, manipulates, more. Agreeing with those actions is crazy. Wanting them to continue for the sake of a kickass story? 100% rational.
Dion Blaster
Member
I always rooted against the power rangers as a kid. It was an exercise in futility.
homelessbaby
Member
I think there's definitely ambiguity. Past a certain point, why would Walt stop? It's like, if you do some bad things, does that make you bad forever? How could he redeem himself? It's an "in for a penny, in for a pound" kinda thing IMO, and it's meant to be open-ended.
Isn't half the point of the show that there are no villains? That everyone is the hero of their own story?
Well, that's just how life is. Everyone has their motivations and thinks they're in the right or have a valid excuse for their actions. But "well I made a few pounds of meth, guess i may as well gradually become a ruthless drug kingpin operating on a global scale" is not really a good justification. If people were allowed to keep doing bad things simply because it would be a bother to stop doing them, it would be a pretty fucked up world.
Obviously Walt could become a "good guy" again and repent for his actions, but all we can talk about is where he's at now.
Yeah, I think the way Walt see's it at this point is he's already killed all these people and done all these fucked up things, may as well keep going or it will all be for nothing. There's also his pride and vanity along with regret for allowing himself to be fucked over by Graymatter. He's clearly got a strong competitive streak that's manifested itself as well, he wants to win. Against the DEA, rival dealers, even his own partners. Then there is the whole cancer angle, he's going to die soon anyway so fuck it, why not? I don't think providing for his family has been a factor since his first big score with Gus, he knows he can make a few hundred thousand at basically the drop of a hat with relative ease, not to mention they have a profitable car wash business. It's all about ego now.
I'm giving you a high five, don't leave me hanging.
That would be a pretty awesome spin off/ side qual???? Hank trying to find out who this Heisenberg is.
I don't know if there's ambiguity about whether or not his actions are justified, but for a while there was ambiguity about his motives and whether he thought he was being just. Through the end of season 4 and the first half of 5, I think that was lost. He's doing everything for solely selfish reasons at this point, and even he's come to realize that. He's in the empire business.
I definitely agree that whether or not redemption is possible for Walt (and whether he deserves it or is capable of finding it) is a question the show asks. But I don't think the show argues there are no villains, just that villains think they're heroes. Walt is deluded into thinking he's the good guy in this story, though every subsequent plot point proves more and more that he's wrong.
I'm about 50/50 on Walt dying or living. I think death is something that Walt threw away being afraid of some point during season 4. Along with that, he has been ready for death ever since he told Jesse "I am awake" near the beginning of it all.
As such, at the rate that Walt is going now, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him in a state of mind where he WANTS to die, and wants it to be over, but Vince won't give him the satisfaction of death. Instead, he'll live. Whether that's alone or with everyone dead, I wouldn't know.
As far as Walt's likability, I'd say I really don't give a fuck about anything he does (as far as me saying "holy shit you asshole!") EXCEPT for when he treats Jesse cruelly. Everyone else (except Walt Jr./Holly, but I don't think he would go there, not directly with his own hands - [And yes, other than Jesse the only time I was really like "WTF WALT" was when he made Walt Jr. drink]) is fair game to me. The only thing that makes me like "ugh Walt" is when he treats Jesse as if he were a piece of trash.
As such, at the rate that Walt is going now, I wouldn't be surprised if we see him in a state of mind where he WANTS to die, and wants it to be over, but Vince won't give him the satisfaction of death. Instead, he'll live. Whether that's alone or with everyone dead, I wouldn't know.
As far as Walt's likability, I'd say I really don't give a fuck about anything he does (as far as me saying "holy shit you asshole!") EXCEPT for when he treats Jesse cruelly. Everyone else (except Walt Jr./Holly, but I don't think he would go there, not directly with his own hands - [And yes, other than Jesse the only time I was really like "WTF WALT" was when he made Walt Jr. drink]) is fair game to me. The only thing that makes me like "ugh Walt" is when he treats Jesse as if he were a piece of trash.
The only way I really see it ending is with Walt alive, but everything around him completely ruined. Whether that means the death of others - I'm going to go out on a limb and say
since it seems like the only character that Walt would suddenly go "holy shit" - or maybe everyone just leaves, or something similar...he's clearly not afraid of death, and the only way he'd even begin to suddenly feel like he's at the bottom would be for him to actually lose everything in some permanent manner.
Walt Jr.
shadyspace
Banned
So will Netflix get S5 Part 1 at like midnight eastern?
Cornballer
Member
iirc,they usually run on Pacific Time for new series releases (House of Cards and the like), so that's a decent bet. Someone might have better into than me.
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
*High five*
Cornballer
Member
Quick reminder that this is coming up in a few hours.
- Film Society of Lincoln Center is hosting Q&A panels and episode marathons Thursday & Friday
The Q&A will stream here tomorrow and Friday when available.
- Film Society of Lincoln Center is hosting Q&A panels and episode marathons Thursday & Friday
The Q&A will stream here tomorrow and Friday when available.
Honestly, this kind of thinking is so ridiculous. If the ending presents what it wants to in a great way, it doesn't matter who "wins" in the end.
Now that that's out of the way, this is how is should be done:
Shield ending spoilers:
Walt =
Vic
Claudette
Shane
Shane's Family
shadyspace
Banned
You know except in real life. Constantly.
Mr. Saturn
Member
Why do you feel that way? There are all sorts of "bad" people in real life that prosper without ever paying for their crimes, so why can't the same thing happen in television?
Walt winning at the end wouldn't necessarily mean the writers are saying its okay to be a shitbag criminal, it's not approval or anything like that, its just that sometimes shitty people get away with being shitty people.
Though I don't personally believe Walt is going to "win" anything when the show ends.
smokeymicpot
Beat EviLore at pool.
So Skyler is gonna die then.
Cornballer
Member
I care nothing about real life, I am watching a drama after all.
Walt is a bad guy, he needs his comeuppance like any other bad guy. It would be a bad thing if he never got a proper end and just fizzled out into the sunset. There has to be a clean break where Heisenberg meets his final end. Walt losing eveything is okay, but it leaves him the option to remain in the empire business, etc. Walt needs a finality to the ending of his story.
So that means I feel his story needs to end with paying for his crimes, either legally or because he dies.
This story is tragic, it should end tragic, Walt broken, batterd and ultimately destroyed.
Walt is a bad guy, he needs his comeuppance like any other bad guy. It would be a bad thing if he never got a proper end and just fizzled out into the sunset. There has to be a clean break where Heisenberg meets his final end. Walt losing eveything is okay, but it leaves him the option to remain in the empire business, etc. Walt needs a finality to the ending of his story.
So that means I feel his story needs to end with paying for his crimes, either legally or because he dies.
This story is tragic, it should end tragic, Walt broken, batterd and ultimately destroyed.
The Lamonster
Member
Now I'm hoping he gets away clean and lives happily ever after, just to read the meltdowns online
Admiral Bone to Pick
Banned
In a way, it's poetic justice that Walt's downfall will be inadvertently caused by Gale.
Now I'm hoping he gets away clean and lives happily ever after, just to read the meltdowns online
You'll get none from me, but I'm sure someone will accommodate you.
But that's how the show started. Heisenberg feeds off of the prospect of his own demise. The only tragedy left for Walt is a world where he gets no recognition for everything that he has done.
BB doesn't go for the typical Hollywood ending though. I could easily see Walt getting away with it all. Him getting killed is too easy anyways... he is going to die from the cancer soon. .
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