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[jonezer4]

the robot gun vs nazis had like 1000 variables that this stuff can work.

I seriously don't get that argument. "There's 1000 ways that plan could have gone wrong." Maybe. But I imagine few of them would have been satisfying to watch, so... why should I care?

Just imagine there are 1000 different co-existing alternate Breaking Bad universes and in 999 of them, Walt failed and his plan just went to shit in a lackluster fashion. In one, Kenny just shoots Walt immediately without even asking Jack where he should do it, and Jack slaps Kenny for killing him in his living room and they get in a big fight over Walt's dead body and it's revealed that they're gay lovers and Kenny is leaving Jack 'cause this is the last straw, then it cuts to "Executive Producer: Vince Gilligan."

But you're the lucky 1/1000 that got to see an ending that involved things luckily or not going Walt's way in manner that was (arguably) satisfying. Our Breaking Bad universe is the best one.

(At least in this episode, it could be argued when Walt took the chance on a plan that could have gone wrong, it was very clear he wasn't intending to get out if it alive, and as such, he didn't have much to lose.)

 

[Brera]

The problem is that there were far too many things in the episode that felt convinient that happened one after the other, it's not the usual stroke of luck Walt sometimes had (and the episode was emotionally unfullfilling to boot).

Are you sure?

The whole picture I got this whole episode was that Walt was 100% on his A game.

He used his superior knowledge to play everyone. He knew them all like a puppet master.

For instance, he was openly walking all over the place, likely had those two guys making those crank calls about a manifesto, creating noise and chaos etc

 

[AlimNassor]

What if one universe Walt freezes to death before he can leave his safe house?

 

[jtb]

I seriously don't get that argument. "There's 1000 ways that plan could have gone wrong." Maybe. But I imagine few of them would have been satisfying to watch, so... why should I care?

Just imagine there are 1000 different co-existing alternate Breaking Bad universes and in 999 of them, Walt failed and his plan just went to shit in a lackluster fashion. In one, Kenny just shoots Walt immediately without even asking Jack where he should do it, and Jack slaps Kenny for killing him in his living room and they get in a big fight over Walt's dead body and it's revealed that they're gay lovers and Kenny is leaving Jack 'cause this is the last straw, then it cuts to "Executive Producer: Vince Gilligan."

But you're the lucky 1/1000 that got to see an ending that involved things luckily or not going Walt's way in manner that was (arguably) satisfying. Our Breaking Bad universe is the best one.

(At least in this episode, it could be argued when Walt took the chance on a plan that could have gone wrong, it was very clear he wasn't intending to get out if it alive, and as such, he didn't have much to lose.)

I've already made my case as to why Walt getting shot (presumably after they check the trunk) before he even enters the room w/ Jack and co. is a much more satisfying ending than the one we got. But I don't mind it in its current form.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

I've already made my case as to why Walt getting shot (presumably after they check the trunk) before he even enters the room w/ Jack and co. is a much more satisfying ending than the one we got.

Definitely unsatisfying. To let the episode play out the way it plays out and then have your suggested ending happen is storytelling blueballs. It's the opposite of dramatically satisfying.

It's an intellectual exercise in kicking over the easel mid-painting.

 

[120v]

I seriously don't get that argument. "There's 1000 ways that plan could have gone wrong." Maybe. But I imagine few of them would have been satisfying to watch, so... why should I care?

Just imagine there are 1000 different co-existing alternate Breaking Bad universes and in 999 of them, Walt failed and his plan just went to shit in a lackluster fashion. In one, Kenny just shoots Walt immediately without even asking Jack where he should do it, and Jack slaps Kenny for killing him in his living room and they get in a big fight over Walt's dead body and it's revealed that they're gay lovers and Kenny is leaving Jack 'cause this is the last straw, then it cuts to "Executive Producer: Vince Gilligan."

But you're the lucky 1/1000 that got to see an ending that involved things luckily or not going Walt's way in manner that was (arguably) satisfying. Our Breaking Bad universe is the best one.

(At least in this episode, it could be argued when Walt took the chance on a plan that could have gone wrong, it was very clear he wasn't intending to get out if it alive, and as such, he didn't have much to lose.)

Breaking Bad Infinite

there's always a lighthouse, a man, and a meth lab

seriously though, i think the setup to take down Gus (season 4 finale) had alot more stretches of belivability. if you really want to get into all the things that could have gone wrong (like a walt being recorded going into the assisted living home) the episode was probably on Dexter level of suspension of belief. not to slight the episode, one of my favorites... but i think people forget this is pulp TV when all's said and done

 

[DominoKid]

I've already made my case as to why Walt getting shot (presumably after they check the trunk) before he even enters the room w/ Jack and co. is a much more satisfying ending than the one we got. But I don't mind it in its current form.

that is about the lamest way that could've went down.

 

[maharg]

I guess I sum it up like this: For a show that spent entire seasons of establishing a path of reality, shit that just felt right and possible, to end it with a M60 stunt that just felt a tad unbelievable was a mistake.

I know I'm late to the party but...

You watched this whole show and THIS is where your suspension of disbelief broke? That's just silly.

 

[agrajag]

I know I'm late to the party but...

You watched this whole show and THIS is where your suspension of disbelief broke? That's just silly.

Lol, exactly. He should watch thr Breaking Bad-themed Mythbusters episode. The show has not been a bastion of tv realism since the first episode.

 

[jtb]

Definitely unsatisfying. To let the episode play out the way it plays out and then have your suggested ending happen is storytelling blueballs. It's the opposite of dramatically satisfying.

It's an intellectual exercise in kicking over the easel mid-painting.

Nah, to shy away from Walt's fall as a character and the consequences of his actions is storytelling blue balls.

His death was inevitable either way so it's hardly kicking the easel over mid-painting lol

 

[Discotheque]

I've already made my case as to why Walt getting shot (presumably after they check the trunk) before he even enters the room w/ Jack and co. is a much more satisfying ending than the one we got. But I don't mind it in its current form.

that would be awesome. suits something like the wire far more than this show though. just a shockingly abrupt death.

breaking bad has always made walter white some comic book villain mastermind joker-style. his plans shouldn't work but they do.

 

[Papercuts]

Nah, to shy away from Walt's fall as a character and the consequences of his actions is storytelling blue balls.

His death was inevitable either way so it's hardly kicking the easel over mid-painting lol

It would have still robbed the viewer of a final Jesse/Walt moment which was for many people the main thing they were looking forward to.

I do see where you're coming from though, and it would be interesting. But I think as a whole the finale would have hit a lot of vitriol heading that way.

 

[Kuroyume]

I've already made my case as to why Walt getting shot (presumably after they check the trunk) before he even enters the room w/ Jack and co. is a much more satisfying ending than the one we got. But I don't mind it in its current form.

You're one of a few that would say that. It's a TV show. Whose job is to create suspense.. Tell a story. Walt getting killed as soon as he gets there before he even talks to Jack or meets Jesse is just rediculous.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

His death was inevitable either way so it's hardly kicking the easel over mid-painting lol

That's exactly what it is, though.

"You like this painting? You like it, right? Can't wait to see me finish it?"

KICK

The purpose you're serving there isn't storytelling. It's sacrificing storytelling for "message," a message which is already conveyed (maybe not as harshly as you'd like) in the text of the entire show, as well as its finale. You can argue over the extent to which that message was delivered, the purity of that message. You can argue that it was stepped on, most definitely.

But your suggestion removes storytelling itself from the equasion as a means to directly speak to the audience in a very loud, artless manner.

It's like a sillier, dramatically thinner version of the ending to Made in America, glued onto a show which absolutely doesn't share the tone of the ending you're attempting to adhere it to.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

that would be awesome. suits something like the wire far more than this show though. just a shockingly abrupt death.

breaking bad has always made walter white some comic book villain mastermind joker-style. his plans shouldn't work but they do.

Indeed it has.

I like the show, but it's always been more pulp than drama. "Mr. Chips turning into Scarface" is about right, as a descriptor, both of the content as well as the general aesthetic.

 

[jtb]

You're one of a few that would say that. It's a TV show. Whose job is to create suspense.. Tell a story. Walt getting killed as soon as he gets there before he even talks to Jack or meets Jesse is just rediculous.

There wasn't any suspense in the finale as it was. You're telling me giving us something unexpected would take away tension? I can't agree with that.

He already had a final meeting with Jesse, last time I checked he sold him out into a life of slavery and told him "I watched Jane die."

That's exactly what it is, though.

"You like this painting? You like it, right? Can't wait to see me finish it?"

KICK

The purpose you're serving there isn't storytelling. It's sacrificing storytelling for "message," a message which is already conveyed (maybe not as harshly as you'd like) in the text of the entire show, as well as its finale. You can argue over the extent to which that message was delivered, the purity of that message. You can argue that it was stepped on, most definitely.

But your suggestion removes storytelling itself from the equasion as a means to directly speak to the audience in a very loud, artless manner.

It's like a sillier, dramatically thinner version of the ending to Made in America, glued onto a show which absolutely doesn't share the tone of the ending you're attempting to adhere it to.

It betrayed it's own theme. (or message, as you demean it, I guess) And, yeah, themes are pretty important in storytelling, generally. The current ending we get is about as safe and tame as it gets—it sets out to placate both the pro-Walt and anti-Walt camps when really the finale shouldn't be about placating or pleasing anybody. It should be about telling a story and, yes, having Walt get shot in the head beforehand counts as storytelling—and it's certainly more interesting than what we got.

And BB has always been a "loud" show. And artless. So I don't really see that as a negative.

Made in America was all about the ambiguity. There's no ambiguity in Walt getting shot in the head.

 

[Cornballer]

- Warming Glow: Bryan Cranston And Dean Norris Were Both In The Pilot Of Pamela Anderson’s Bodyguard Show, ‘V.I.P.’

Some fun pictures here:

Youtube for the entire trainwreck via the link.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Yeah, BB's always been pretty artless. It's fun, but it has the dramatic and artistic nuance of a Gallagher special.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

There wasn't any suspense in the finale as it was. You're telling me giving us something unexpected would take away tension? I can't agree with that
.

If tension is your main aim, the SOLE aim, maybe I see where you're coming from. But it isn't, nor should it be, and that's fairly obvious, yes? Your suggestion sacrifices storytelling solely for "tension" and all your arguments are variations on that general point. To the extent that you're considering the finale to be some sort of crafted olive branch to two sides of a fandom as if Gilligan gave a shit about that during the writing & filming of the back half of S5.

He didn't of course.

Your suggestion artlessly shortchangehs storytelling for a gotcha moment.

It's inverse Shyamalan.

edit: fuck's sake people are arguing that the show is artless now? That statement is flat out ridiculous.

 

[Cornballer]

- Wesley Morris for Grantland: Can Aaron Paul Be a Movie Star?
- THR: 'Breaking Bad' Swan Song: Producer Todd Rundgren Looks Back at 'Baby Blue'

 

[jtb]

If tension is your main aim, the SOLE aim, maybe I see where you're coming from. But it isn't, nor should it be, and that's fairly obvious, yes? Your suggestion sacrifices storytelling solely for "tension" and all your arguments are variations on that general point. To the extent that you're considering the finale to be some sort of crafted olive branch to two sides of a fandom as if Gilligan gave a shit about that during the writing & filming of the back half of S5.

He didn't of course.

Your suggestion artlessly shortchanges storytelling for a gotcha moment.

It's inverse Shyamalan.

Actually, none of my arguments for that ending have to do with tension... I'm not sure where you got that from.

here's the short version: BB is about Walt trying to exert agency over his life. therefore, the ultimate damnation (or, if that's too judgmental for you—the ultimate tragedy) of walt's character needs to be a complete removal of his agency. and if Jesse and Skyler and all the rest get thrown under the bus in order to make it happen, all the better.

 

[Dai101]

The Saint of Poisoning Children

And bringing uncut pizza and dipping sticks

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

If tension is your main aim, the SOLE aim, maybe I see where you're coming from. But it isn't, nor should it be, and that's fairly obvious, yes? Your suggestion sacrifices storytelling solely for "tension" and all your arguments are variations on that general point. To the extent that you're considering the finale to be some sort of crafted olive branch to two sides of a fandom as if Gilligan gave a shit about that during the writing & filming of the back half of S5.

He didn't of course.

Your suggestion artlessly shortchanges storytelling for a gotcha moment.

It's inverse Shyamalan.

I mean, your idea of "storytelling" in this case seems to be very limited. I don't particularly think Walt getting shot in the head is a very good ending, but it would likely have been more interesting, and potentially more rich, philosophically, than the rather safe, broad, obvious ending we actually got, wherein Walt got to be Batman one more time and ended up dying in a Taxi Driver "homage".

 

[Ashok]

people forget this is pulp TV when all's said and done

I don't know what that means but GOOD!!!! We NEED more television like Breaking Bad, and less TV like... well, stuff that isn't Breaking Bad.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I don't know what that means but GOOD!!!! We NEED more television like Breaking Bad, and less TV like... well, stuff that isn't Breaking Bad.

It means it has more in common with, say, old detective novels, comic books, and classic gangster movies than real drama, which is an apt description.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I mean, your idea of "storytelling" in this case seems to be very limited. I don't particularly think Walt getting shot in the head is a very good ending, but it would likely have been more interesting, and potentially more rich, philosophically, than the rather safe, broad, obvious ending we actually got, wherein Walt got to be Batman one more time and ended up dying in a Taxi Driver "homage".

I wouldn't say it was a Taxi driver homage, even if ol' Vinnie G wants to name-drop it. Or if it was, it was a bad one.

 

[MidnightCowboy]

I can't think of a show that has better cinematography than Breaking Bad. I may be biased because I love the western aesthetic, but I think suggesting BB is artless just because it is pulpy is an incredibly, I don't know, limited perspective.

 

[Bobby Roberts]

Actually, none of my arguments for that ending have to do with tension... I'm not sure where you got that from.

From your post arguing how your ending maintains tension, man. the one I directly responded to

here's the short version: BB is about Walt trying to exert agency over his life. therefore, the ultimate damnation (or, if that's too judgmental for you—the ultimate tragedy) of walt's character needs to be a complete removal of his agency. and if Jesse and Skyler and all the rest get thrown under the bus in order to make it happen, all the better.

and your ending resolves that particular point in a shitty way, so far as storytelling goes. Hence kicking over the painting.

The way Gilligan chose to address those themes is absolutely better on a storytelling level than your suggestion. I'm certain your way WAS brought up at some point. It's a sound suggestion. But I don't think it was discarded solely because 'placating' fans was a concern. I think it wasn't entertained because it was a shit way to address the themes of Walter's impotence, rage, and agency.

I think trying to make this the 'ultimate' anything is a problem. It's already a massive tragedy. This current ending doesn't change that. Your suggestion, in chasing after the 'ultimate' tragedy, again - ventures into inverse shyamalan territory. It's a nice idea that would be really, really hard to execute in any way that resembles dramatic satisfaction.

But if your primary concern isn't the drama, but the message/theme, and that above all else? I can see falling in love with your idea to the point you don't recognize how terrible it would be as an ending.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

I wouldn't say it was a Taxi driver homage, even if ol' Vinnie G wants to name-drop it. Or if it was, it was a bad one.

Did he say that?

I just picked it up instantly. Overhead shot, surveying protagonists' violent "triumph" as the cops overtake the scene. Of course it's not as good, but then, how could it have been?

The show relentlessly "homages" Scorsese movies every chance it gets, really - the use of pop music, the odd camera angles, etc.

 

[Cornballer]

- EW: 'Breaking Bad' stars reveal the scenes they always wanted to shoot

 

[CharminUltra]

It means it has more in common with, say, old detective novels, comic books, and classic gangster movies than real drama, which is an apt description.

So like, The Maltese Falcon, Watchmen and The Godfather.

I agree then. Breaking Bad is that amazing.

 

[Salmonax]

- Warming Glow: Bryan Cranston And Dean Norris Were Both In The Pilot Of Pamela Anderson’s Bodyguard Show, ‘V.I.P.’

Arzt is in it, too!

 

[Niraj]

I can't think of a show that has better cinematography than Breaking Bad. I may be biased because I love the western aesthetic, but I think suggesting BB is artless just because it is pulpy is an incredibly, I don't know, limited perspective.

Definitely agree. So many episodes to use as an example, but Granite State in particular has stayed in my mind as of late. It was so beautiful in its restraint.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

So like, The Maltese Falcon, Watchmen and The Godfather.

I agree then. Breaking Bad is that amazing.

Um.... no? It's maybe like The Maltese Falcon, but it's NOTHING like the other two - either qualitatively or aesthetically.

(Maybe Watchmen - haven't read that in years - but The Godfather is about ten thousand fathoms above BB, and it's not even the best movie about the underworld.)

 

[Papercuts]

- EW: 'Breaking Bad' stars reveal the scenes they always wanted to shoot

JESSE PLEMONS (Todd): I would have liked to ride off into the sunset with Lydia on a crystal blue unicorn

 

[FBDalton]

Another review for the series finale.

TV Review: BREAKING BAD: Season 5, Episode 16: Felina – AMC TV Show
http://film-book.com/tv-review-breaking-bad-season-5-episode-16-felina-amc-tv-show/

 

[MidnightCowboy]

Definitely agree. So many episodes to use as an example, but Granite State in particular has stayed in my mind as of late. It was so beautiful in its restraint.

It honestly might be my favorite episode of the season. The more I think about it the more it feels right.

 

[CharminUltra]

Um.... no? It's maybe like The Maltese Falcon, but it's NOTHING like the other two - either qualitatively or aesthetically.

(Maybe Watchmen - haven't read that in years - but The Godfather is about ten thousand fathoms above BB, and it's not even the best movie about the underworld.)

Oh, right, sorry. Was trying to do my best with the inane comparison you made.

JESSE PLEMONS (Todd): I would have liked to ride off into the sunset with Lydia on a crystal blue unicorn

I hope this is one of the alternate endings included in the complete blu-ray set.

 

[mickcenary]

Yeah, you're going to have to lump me in the 'slightly unfulfilled/disappointed' category.

Too neat and tidy.
Too much of a fan service to #TeamWalt.
Too little given to what I believe is the backbone of the show: Jesse and Walt's relationship.
Too little emotional gravitas.

All in all, too much of a pervading feeling of, "is that it?"

I know finales are generally like this. I think I was just expecting more, be that realistic or unrealistic.

 

[Ashok]

JESSE PLEMONS (Todd): I would have liked to ride off into the sunset with Lydia on a crystal blue unicorn

I wanted Zach Gilford to show up in an alternate ending and kill him.

 

[sixteen-bit]

- Warming Glow: Bryan Cranston And Dean Norris Were Both In The Pilot Of Pamela Anderson’s Bodyguard Show, ‘V.I.P.’

Some fun pictures here:

Youtube for the entire trainwreck via the link.

Norris looks the same

 

[jtb]

From your post arguing how your ending maintains tension, man. the one I directly responded to



and your ending resolves that particular point in a shitty way, so far as storytelling goes. Hence kicking over the painting.

The way Gilligan chose to address those themes is absolutely better on a storytelling level than your suggestion. I'm certain your way WAS brought up at some point. It's a sound suggestion. But I don't think it was discarded solely because 'placating' fans was a concern. I think it wasn't entertained because it was a shit way to address the themes of Walter's impotence, rage, and agency.

I think trying to make this the 'ultimate' anything is a problem. It's already a massive tragedy. This current ending doesn't change that. Your suggestion, in chasing after the 'ultimate' tragedy, again - ventures into inverse shyamalan territory. It's a nice idea that would be really, really hard to execute in any way that resembles dramatic satisfaction.

But if your primary concern isn't the drama, but the message/theme, and that above all else? I can see falling in love with your idea to the point you don't recognize how terrible it would be as an ending.

Well, I don't mean "ultimate" as in MINE IS THE BESTEST EVER lol I just mean... well, the finale basically comes down one of two ways. Either Walt ends things on his own terms or he doesn't. And I think he shouldn't. And the easiest way to do that without completley rewriting the last eight episodes is to end it there—not that my ending is the perfect ending. It's just better than the one we got

 

[Mononoke]

Yeah, BB's always been pretty artless. It's fun, but it has the dramatic and artistic nuance of a Gallagher special.

Yes, because pulp can't be art.

Some of these comments are hilariously snobby. Artless, not a real drama. Those that always thought Mad Men was the pinnacle achievement of Drama since the Sopranos, are coming out in full force, to rub their hands together and tell us Breaking Bad was not art. It's pretty amusing. But I find it bizarre that some fans are suddenly having this reaction. As if they didn't realize Breaking Bad was always pulp and stylized.

But I do wonder where we are at, when we say this isn't art. What the fuck.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

For some weird reason, I really thought Jesse was going to drive off of/into something. And I thought Walt stroking the meth canisters was a little... much.

 

[Sanjuro]

Too little given to what I believe is the backbone of the show: Jesse and Walt's relationship.

Not sure that I'm following you? Walt gave Jesse everything.

 

[jtb]

I think Prisoners does pulp better than Breaking Bad does. It does the pulp better, it does the "ART!!!!1" part better too.

I don't mind. Prisoners was damn good.

 

[Mononoke]

I think Prisoners does pulp better than Breaking Bad does. It does the pulp better, it does the "ART!!!!1" part better too.

I don't mind. Prisoners was damn good.

I think Breaking Bad did the pulp and the drama incredible. Was a fantastic mix. Which is why I think it's art and fantastic entertainment.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I think very few people are going to ask themselves "is there a fucking turret gun or any other super powerful long-range weapon in the trunk of this car that could be activated with just a push of a button on his keys?" when they check people and only find keys and a wallet. The complaint about the Nazis not checking seems weird to me. They probably would have checked around his car and in his trunk if Walt was carrying around a detonator or wanted them to meet around his car, but it seems like overkill for a guy, seemingly without a device to activate a weapon, that they were planning on killing in a few moments.

 

[Niraj]

It honestly might be my favorite episode of the season. The more I think about it the more it feels right.

I feel weird saying that considering how many good episodes there were, but I kind of feel like I'm with you there. I think it's a perfect episode.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Oh, right, sorry. Was trying to do my best with the inane comparison you made.

In terms of the lack of realism, melodrama, twists and turns, contrived and convoluted plotting, slick style, colorful (yet fairly simple and easy-to-read/follow) characters, etc. the comparison I made is not the least bit inane.

Considered on any level BEYOND old pulp novels, comic books, etc. the show looks quite poor, indeed. The pleasures it has to offer are quite superficial.

And that's alright! But it ain't great art, is all I'm saying.

Edit: Pulp can be artistically accomplished. But BB wasn't exactly a Billy Wilder movie, let alone "The Killing of a Chinese Bookie" or "Mean Streets" or "Goodfellas" - works that really took the traits of old pulp fiction and turned them into titanic artistic achievement.