Roberto Larcos
Member
Easier to predict a national poll over a constituency based election.
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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016
- Thread starter QuicheFontaine
- Start date
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Easier to predict a national poll over a constituency based election.
I'm not with them, so no.... What did it say?
Jezbollah
Member
Yep. very true.
Anyone catching the current press conference held by Obama and Cameron? Some pretty strong words by POTUS so far. Very strong words in fact.
"Good news. On 30th April, the standard rates to use your phone abroad in the EU dropped by 65% due to new EU Regulation. [link to URL]"
Roberto Larcos
Member
Makes it sound like the EU allowed them to drop roaming charges - not forced them to (at their behest).
anonymous_abc
Member
Yes while spouting her hate for the ECHR in virtually the same sentence...
QuicheFontaine
Member
We wouldn't be leaving the ECHR anyway, would we? That's not an EU thing - Russia and Turkey are signatories.
anonymous_abc
Member
Yea it has nothing to do with the EU, I seem to recall it being one of the basic membership requirements though.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Ah right, so you don't have to be in the EU to be in the ECHR, but we can't tear up the ECHR unless we leave the EU.
To be honest, I don't think we should even be talking about scrapping a convention on human rights that even Russia is prepared to sign up to. That can't be a good look.
There's two big reasons why it won't happen. The Scottish Government needs to give consent for it, and the Good Friday Agreement relies on it being implemented in the UK.
It's pointless gesture politics.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Okay, found the right thread...
I'm suddenly seeing this everywhere and I can't help but groan...
I'm voting in, but this is just ridiculous...
I'm suddenly seeing this everywhere and I can't help but groan...
I'm voting in, but this is just ridiculous...
Miles Quaritch
Member
She does tend to feature in the news when it election time in France, other than that I think it's fair to say she's pretty unknown for the most part.
The Le Pen thing is quite funny given the Leave campaign are having a bit of in-fighting over it. They can't argue that she should come over, since she'll torpedo their campaign, but they can't argue that she should be banned, because that would prove we have control of our borders..
Souldriver
Member
Just dropping in to say something that's probably been mentioned to death by now, but...
I think the pro-EU campaign has a disadvantage when it comes to promoting their side. In general people don't like to be told that they themselves, their own group, their ways, ... are inferior to others.
When I read articles (from the British press) claiming that leaving the EU would be bad because without the EU a certain policy or reality would be worse off, it just comes off as teaching and condescending, no matter if it is correct. It's even worse when outsiders makes such claims. For example, Obama is probably just saying what he really thinks and feels is the best option for the UK, yet I totally understand people going "fuck that guy, we'll make up our own mind!".
I think it's a normal human reaction. And that is why, even though I would really like the UK to stay in the EU, when I see media saying "UK should stay because otherwise ..." more often than not I frown thinking it will have the opposite effect of what's intended.
Anyway, I hope you guys stay in the club. Regardless of the economic consequences, I just feel that in principle it's a much better mindset to unite rather than divide or isolate. The past 50 years have been one huge effort by the Europeans to set right the 50 years that came before that. I can't think of many bigger victories of mankind. That being said, it's up to you Brits to decide for yourselves, and if the "no" camp were to win, I'm sure in the end things will turn out alright.
I think the pro-EU campaign has a disadvantage when it comes to promoting their side. In general people don't like to be told that they themselves, their own group, their ways, ... are inferior to others.
When I read articles (from the British press) claiming that leaving the EU would be bad because without the EU a certain policy or reality would be worse off, it just comes off as teaching and condescending, no matter if it is correct. It's even worse when outsiders makes such claims. For example, Obama is probably just saying what he really thinks and feels is the best option for the UK, yet I totally understand people going "fuck that guy, we'll make up our own mind!".
I think it's a normal human reaction. And that is why, even though I would really like the UK to stay in the EU, when I see media saying "UK should stay because otherwise ..." more often than not I frown thinking it will have the opposite effect of what's intended.
Anyway, I hope you guys stay in the club. Regardless of the economic consequences, I just feel that in principle it's a much better mindset to unite rather than divide or isolate. The past 50 years have been one huge effort by the Europeans to set right the 50 years that came before that. I can't think of many bigger victories of mankind. That being said, it's up to you Brits to decide for yourselves, and if the "no" camp were to win, I'm sure in the end things will turn out alright.
SporeCrawler
Member
So rates will hike once brexit is a done Deal right? Thats like two month rate drop for the UK. Good job EU thanks for nothing.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
The House of Lords EU Committee has today published their report on the process of withdrawing from the European Union.
It's a short report, and intended for debate rather than to be definitive, but as usual for Lords Committees it is very pointed. To give a tiny flavour (from the evidence of Sir David Edward, former Judge of the ECJ):
This is largely why I will be voting to remain. Regardless of whether the grass on the other side is greener or not, the fence in between is tall, spiky and electrified - and also opaque so we can't tell whether there is even any grass there - and also overhanging so there is no way back.
It's a short report, and intended for debate rather than to be definitive, but as usual for Lords Committees it is very pointed. To give a tiny flavour (from the evidence of Sir David Edward, former Judge of the ECJ):
Lords Report para 50 said:
This is largely why I will be voting to remain. Regardless of whether the grass on the other side is greener or not, the fence in between is tall, spiky and electrified - and also opaque so we can't tell whether there is even any grass there - and also overhanging so there is no way back.
QuicheFontaine
Member
Well, the thing is the fence is only going to get higher and spikier, and...more...electrified, as time goes on.
What I mean is, we're only going to get more entrenched. At the moment we have pretty much all the instruments of a proper country, i.e. our own currency, armed forces, control of our borders, etc. But the ultimate aim of the EU is to merge those with those of other countries. That's why I think this isn't the time for complacency - and I'll admit that the status quo is a pretty sweet gig for the UK - it's basically time to say do we want an EU superstate or not. Because if we stay, that's where this is heading. Personally, I'd rather retain some autonomy.
Admittedly, I'm posting this before reading the report to which you link. I will try and read it at some point.
Roberto Larcos
Member
The EU can't seize those powers without UK consent. Most political commentators are seeing a two-speed Europe as far more likely at this point.
note to lawlords - don't use the term 'ghastliness' if you want to appeal to us populists
Royal_Phalanx
Member
Am I the only one who thinks a federal EU superstate wouldn't be so bad?
Trump has come out for Brexit.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rexit-britain-would-be-better-off-outside-eu/
Says it all really.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rexit-britain-would-be-better-off-outside-eu/
Says it all really.
Make Great Britain Great Again.
anonymous_abc
Member
Not at all.
There are many organisations and people striving for such a model.
e.g. http://www.federalists.eu
Problem solved! A little tweak and we can have Obama and Trump on that graphic.
This is pretty hilarious considering in December he announced he would appeal to the EU courts to stop wind turbines going up off the coast of scotland (because it would 'ruin' the view from his resort up there).
There is currently an alarm going off at Brexit HQ, but it's being drowned out by the sound of sobbing.
Jimbob Smalls
Banned
It'd be a political cultural clash clusterfook of unimaginable proportions.
Daffy Duck
Member
So I hear Cameron is saying that if we leave there will be a European war, lol.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Mace: We'll have a vote.
Searle: No. No, we won't. We are not a democracy. We're a collection of astronauts and scientists, so we're gonna make the most informed decision available to us.
Mace: Made by you, by any chance?
Kaneda: Made by the person best qualified to understand the complexities of payload delivery: our physicist.
[Long pause]Capa: Shit.
the general public do not understand the complexities of the in or out vote and asking them to vote on this is absolute nonsense.
Searle: No. No, we won't. We are not a democracy. We're a collection of astronauts and scientists, so we're gonna make the most informed decision available to us.
Mace: Made by you, by any chance?
Kaneda: Made by the person best qualified to understand the complexities of payload delivery: our physicist.
[Long pause]Capa: Shit.
the general public do not understand the complexities of the in or out vote and asking them to vote on this is absolute nonsense.
Reminds me of when he was saying we had to stay because we couldn't trust his government to protect workers' rights.
Fucking hate negative campaigning.
maniac-kun
Member
If England leaves maybe others follow and a process for a good economical collaboration union can begin.
QuicheFontaine
Member
And yet he was willing to campaign for Leave, right up until February when he did his little negotiation?
How reckless!
JonathanEx
Member
Yes I'm all quite strongly for in, but to argue this is funny. Because you can reasonably then take from this that Cameron was willing to risk war to just have a few less spats in his party?
But hey, negative campaigning, but if you think the opposite thing is worse, well that's what you've got to point out isn't it...
I did enjoy over the weekend, we had ex-heads of security services say we should stay in, and Gove going 'nope we can be still very security! We can do a deal to get all that!' and again it all comes down to if you want all this stuff, why leave? Plus any time he shows up reminds me of the famous Gove vs the Aliens comic. He wrote two articles about planes.
One of the things he negotiated was a line that says "pls no war", obviously.
MarkMclovin
Member
Decided I'm not voting either way.
Not a single person, friends down the pub, work mates and family can up up with a decent reason either way of more than "Trading would go to shit" or "Manufacturing would collapse and we'd lose loads of jobs" or even "Because I hate the Conservatives". Just the shit you see on facebook posts really.
The BBC is far more informative, but informative on not much. It just seems like nobody knows a fucking thing.
But if a gun what pointed at me and I had to choose, I suppose IN because don't fix what ain't broke? I don't know if it's broken though.
Not a single person, friends down the pub, work mates and family can up up with a decent reason either way of more than "Trading would go to shit" or "Manufacturing would collapse and we'd lose loads of jobs" or even "Because I hate the Conservatives". Just the shit you see on facebook posts really.
The BBC is far more informative, but informative on not much. It just seems like nobody knows a fucking thing.
But if a gun what pointed at me and I had to choose, I suppose IN because don't fix what ain't broke? I don't know if it's broken though.
He has strong opinions about aliens.
QuicheFontaine
Member
JonathanEx
Member
EUREF JUSTIFIED.
Remember at the election last year Channel 4 had the real-time-esque Ballot Monkeys, from the duo behind Drop the Dead Donkey/Outnumbered and loads of other great shows? They're doing it again - Power Monkeys, six episode series following the ref and also the US election.
Channel 4 are also doing:
- A debate the day before hosted by Paxo. No interviewees announced.
- Eurotrash special (yes, no really)
- Henning Wein comedy series
http://www.channel4.com/info/press/...-on-channel-4?msg_id=DM21651&nl_bid=656462105
Remember at the election last year Channel 4 had the real-time-esque Ballot Monkeys, from the duo behind Drop the Dead Donkey/Outnumbered and loads of other great shows? They're doing it again - Power Monkeys, six episode series following the ref and also the US election.
Channel 4 are also doing:
- A debate the day before hosted by Paxo. No interviewees announced.
- Eurotrash special (yes, no really)
- Henning Wein comedy series
http://www.channel4.com/info/press/...-on-channel-4?msg_id=DM21651&nl_bid=656462105
Holy shit at Eurotrash!
Yeah, this one has brought out the worst in all British Politics. The yanks think Trump V Clinton is a bad choice, but Cameron & George V Boris & Farage? Fuck me.
Jezbollah
Member
OUTSTANDING.
What's next? Aliens invade if we vote for Brexit? God himself casts us all down? Or even worse, a national tea shortage?
Nicktendo86
Member
He's made himself look a complete and utter tit. It's so ridiculous it is to the point of being laughable. I mean, dodgy Treasury forecasts was one thing, shipping Obama over another, but saying Europe will descend into war if the UK leaves is comical. Just ask Crimea how much a united EU helps against an expansionist Russia anyway.
jimbobsmells
Member
Yup between this and Osbourne saying house prices will go down if we leave, it's like they *want* to lose the vote.
House prices likely will go down in the short term after getting out, but it;s such a dumb argument anyway. People who are currently renting would want that to happen.
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