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Brexit |OT| UK Referendum on EU Membership - 23 June 2016

Did you vote for the side that is going to win?


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Beefy

Member
Will put this here as well.

Well the Pro EU side could have done their biggest fuck up yet. They think the voters on the fence will be persuaded by Teresa May and are keen to push her as the face of the stay campaign.
 
Will put this here as well.

Well the Pro EU side could have done their biggest fuck up yet. They think the voters on the fence will be persuaded by Teresa May and are keen to push her as the face of the stay campaign.

Yes while spouting her hate for the ECHR in virtually the same sentence...
 
Yea it has nothing to do with the EU, I seem to recall it being one of the basic membership requirements though.

Ah right, so you don't have to be in the EU to be in the ECHR, but we can't tear up the ECHR unless we leave the EU.

To be honest, I don't think we should even be talking about scrapping a convention on human rights that even Russia is prepared to sign up to. That can't be a good look.
 

Uzzy

Member
We wouldn't be leaving the ECHR anyway, would we? That's not an EU thing - Russia and Turkey are signatories.

There's two big reasons why it won't happen. The Scottish Government needs to give consent for it, and the Good Friday Agreement relies on it being implemented in the UK.

It's pointless gesture politics.
 
Okay, found the right thread...

I'm suddenly seeing this everywhere and I can't help but groan...

2OkZtTW.jpg


I'm voting in, but this is just ridiculous...
 

Mr. Sam

Member
It seems referenda really bring the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to the fore. How many people in the UK even know who Marine Le Pen is?
 
It seems referenda really bring the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to the fore. How many people in the UK even know who Marine Le Pen is?

She does tend to feature in the news when it election time in France, other than that I think it's fair to say she's pretty unknown for the most part.
 

tomtom94

Member
The Le Pen thing is quite funny given the Leave campaign are having a bit of in-fighting over it. They can't argue that she should come over, since she'll torpedo their campaign, but they can't argue that she should be banned, because that would prove we have control of our borders..
 
Just dropping in to say something that's probably been mentioned to death by now, but...


I think the pro-EU campaign has a disadvantage when it comes to promoting their side. In general people don't like to be told that they themselves, their own group, their ways, ... are inferior to others.

When I read articles (from the British press) claiming that leaving the EU would be bad because without the EU a certain policy or reality would be worse off, it just comes off as teaching and condescending, no matter if it is correct. It's even worse when outsiders makes such claims. For example, Obama is probably just saying what he really thinks and feels is the best option for the UK, yet I totally understand people going "fuck that guy, we'll make up our own mind!".

I think it's a normal human reaction. And that is why, even though I would really like the UK to stay in the EU, when I see media saying "UK should stay because otherwise ..." more often than not I frown thinking it will have the opposite effect of what's intended.


Anyway, I hope you guys stay in the club. Regardless of the economic consequences, I just feel that in principle it's a much better mindset to unite rather than divide or isolate. The past 50 years have been one huge effort by the Europeans to set right the 50 years that came before that. I can't think of many bigger victories of mankind. That being said, it's up to you Brits to decide for yourselves, and if the "no" camp were to win, I'm sure in the end things will turn out alright.
 

phisheep

NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
The House of Lords EU Committee has today published their report on the process of withdrawing from the European Union.

It's a short report, and intended for debate rather than to be definitive, but as usual for Lords Committees it is very pointed. To give a tiny flavour (from the evidence of Sir David Edward, former Judge of the ECJ):

Lords Report para 50 said:
"The long-term ghastliness of the legal complications is almost unimaginable"

This is largely why I will be voting to remain. Regardless of whether the grass on the other side is greener or not, the fence in between is tall, spiky and electrified - and also opaque so we can't tell whether there is even any grass there - and also overhanging so there is no way back.
 
The House of Lords EU Committee has today published their report on the process of withdrawing from the European Union.

It's a short report, and intended for debate rather than to be definitive, but as usual for Lords Committees it is very pointed. To give a tiny flavour (from the evidence of Sir David Edward, former Judge of the ECJ):



This is largely why I will be voting to remain. Regardless of whether the grass on the other side is greener or not, the fence in between is tall, spiky and electrified - and also opaque so we can't tell whether there is even any grass there - and also overhanging so there is no way back.

Well, the thing is the fence is only going to get higher and spikier, and...more...electrified, as time goes on.

What I mean is, we're only going to get more entrenched. At the moment we have pretty much all the instruments of a proper country, i.e. our own currency, armed forces, control of our borders, etc. But the ultimate aim of the EU is to merge those with those of other countries. That's why I think this isn't the time for complacency - and I'll admit that the status quo is a pretty sweet gig for the UK - it's basically time to say do we want an EU superstate or not. Because if we stay, that's where this is heading. Personally, I'd rather retain some autonomy.

Admittedly, I'm posting this before reading the report to which you link. I will try and read it at some point.
 
Well, the thing is the fence is only going to get higher and spikier, and...more...electrified, as time goes on.

What I mean is, we're only going to get more entrenched. At the moment we have pretty much all the instruments of a proper country, i.e. our own currency, armed forces, control of our borders, etc. But the ultimate aim of the EU is to merge those with those of other countries. That's why I think this isn't the time for complacency - and I'll admit that the status quo is a pretty sweet gig for the UK - it's basically time to say do we want an EU superstate or not. Because if we stay, that's where this is heading. Personally, I'd rather retain some autonomy.

Admittedly, I'm posting this before reading the report to which you link. I will try and read it at some point.

The EU can't seize those powers without UK consent. Most political commentators are seeing a two-speed Europe as far more likely at this point.
 

Philly40

Member
The House of Lords EU Committee has today published their report on the process of withdrawing from the European Union.

It's a short report, and intended for debate rather than to be definitive, but as usual for Lords Committees it is very pointed. To give a tiny flavour (from the evidence of Sir David Edward, former Judge of the ECJ):



This is largely why I will be voting to remain. Regardless of whether the grass on the other side is greener or not, the fence in between is tall, spiky and electrified - and also opaque so we can't tell whether there is even any grass there - and also overhanging so there is no way back.


note to lawlords - don't use the term 'ghastliness' if you want to appeal to us populists
 

mclem

Member
It seems referenda really bring the "throw everything at the wall and see what sticks" approach to the fore. How many people in the UK even know who Marine Le Pen is?

Problem solved! A little tweak and we can have Obama and Trump on that graphic.
 

DCharlie

And even i am moderately surprised
Mace: We'll have a vote.

Searle: No. No, we won't. We are not a democracy. We're a collection of astronauts and scientists, so we're gonna make the most informed decision available to us.

Mace: Made by you, by any chance?

Kaneda: Made by the person best qualified to understand the complexities of payload delivery: our physicist.

[Long pause]Capa: Shit.



the general public do not understand the complexities of the in or out vote and asking them to vote on this is absolute nonsense.
 
So I hear Cameron is saying that if we leave there will be a European war, lol.

Yes I'm all quite strongly for in, but to argue this is funny. Because you can reasonably then take from this that Cameron was willing to risk war to just have a few less spats in his party?

But hey, negative campaigning, but if you think the opposite thing is worse, well that's what you've got to point out isn't it...


I did enjoy over the weekend, we had ex-heads of security services say we should stay in, and Gove going 'nope we can be still very security! We can do a deal to get all that!' and again it all comes down to if you want all this stuff, why leave? Plus any time he shows up reminds me of the famous Gove vs the Aliens comic. He wrote two articles about planes.
 
Decided I'm not voting either way.

Not a single person, friends down the pub, work mates and family can up up with a decent reason either way of more than "Trading would go to shit" or "Manufacturing would collapse and we'd lose loads of jobs" or even "Because I hate the Conservatives". Just the shit you see on facebook posts really.

The BBC is far more informative, but informative on not much. It just seems like nobody knows a fucking thing.

But if a gun what pointed at me and I had to choose, I suppose IN because don't fix what ain't broke? I don't know if it's broken though.
 
EUREF JUSTIFIED.

Remember at the election last year Channel 4 had the real-time-esque Ballot Monkeys, from the duo behind Drop the Dead Donkey/Outnumbered and loads of other great shows? They're doing it again - Power Monkeys, six episode series following the ref and also the US election.

Channel 4 are also doing:
- A debate the day before hosted by Paxo. No interviewees announced.
- Eurotrash special (yes, no really)
- Henning Wein comedy series

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/...-on-channel-4?msg_id=DM21651&nl_bid=656462105
 

8bit

Knows the Score
EUREF JUSTIFIED.

Remember at the election last year Channel 4 had the real-time-esque Ballot Monkeys, from the duo behind Drop the Dead Donkey/Outnumbered and loads of other great shows? They're doing it again - Power Monkeys, six episode series following the ref and also the US election.

Channel 4 are also doing:
- A debate the day before hosted by Paxo. No interviewees announced.
- Eurotrash special (yes, no really)
- Henning Wein comedy series

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/...-on-channel-4?msg_id=DM21651&nl_bid=656462105

Holy shit at Eurotrash!
 

Hazzuh

Member
Just like the vote on AV, the EU vote really shows how little the political class think of the public. Truly pathetic stuff from Cameron.
 

Hasney

Member
Just like the vote on AV, the EU vote really shows how little the political class think of the public. Truly pathetic stuff from Cameron.

Yeah, this one has brought out the worst in all British Politics. The yanks think Trump V Clinton is a bad choice, but Cameron & George V Boris & Farage? Fuck me.
 

Jezbollah

Member
EUREF JUSTIFIED.

Remember at the election last year Channel 4 had the real-time-esque Ballot Monkeys, from the duo behind Drop the Dead Donkey/Outnumbered and loads of other great shows? They're doing it again - Power Monkeys, six episode series following the ref and also the US election.

Channel 4 are also doing:
- A debate the day before hosted by Paxo. No interviewees announced.
- Eurotrash special (yes, no really)
- Henning Wein comedy series

http://www.channel4.com/info/press/...-on-channel-4?msg_id=DM21651&nl_bid=656462105

OUTSTANDING.
 

Nicktendo86

Member
Just like the vote on AV, the EU vote really shows how little the political class think of the public. Truly pathetic stuff from Cameron.

He's made himself look a complete and utter tit. It's so ridiculous it is to the point of being laughable. I mean, dodgy Treasury forecasts was one thing, shipping Obama over another, but saying Europe will descend into war if the UK leaves is comical. Just ask Crimea how much a united EU helps against an expansionist Russia anyway.
 
He's made himself look a complete and utter tit. It's so ridiculous it is to the point of being laughable. I mean, dodgy Treasury forecasts was one thing, shipping Obama over another, but saying Europe will descend into war if the UK leaves is comical. Just ask Crimea how much a united EU helps against an expansionist Russia anyway.
Yup between this and Osbourne saying house prices will go down if we leave, it's like they *want* to lose the vote.
 

Hasney

Member
Yup between this and Osbourne saying house prices will go down if we leave, it's like they *want* to lose the vote.

House prices likely will go down in the short term after getting out, but it;s such a dumb argument anyway. People who are currently renting would want that to happen.
 
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