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[Alkastelca]

 

[Maledict]

Wow, that's one of the most racist, disgusting cartoons I've seen a long time. Scarily impressive, as well as hugely depressing and dumb.

 

[Exterminieren]

That's an impressively shit cartoon.

 

[Number45]

And it could have easily conveyed essentially the same message without the blatant racist imagery.

Wonder if he'll regret watermarking that image.

 

[weekev]

At times like this the polls that I believe most are the ones from those with most to lose aka the bookies.

They are still hugely confident of a remain vote.

 

[liftedly]

And it could have easily conveyed essentially the same message without the blatant racist imagery.

Wonder if he'll regret watermarking that image.

Judging by the rest of his cartoons, I don't think so.

 

[Lucreto]

From my Facebook wall.

 

[Hasney]

At times like this the polls that I believe most are the ones from those with most to lose aka the bookies.

They are still hugely confident of a remain vote.

Yeah, I guess they're figuring at least half the "don't know" percentage would come out and vote remain.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Exactly this. The last thing the EU wants is for the UK to do well if it votes Leave, as it will just further fuel other euro skeptic parties. France has elections next year, and it wouldn't do to have Le Pen and the gang enjoy some wind in their sales were the UK to do reasonably alright after breaking from the EU, and it would just domino from there as other parties latched on to that. The EU will put the screws to the UK every way it can after the 23rd if Britain votes out.

But if the EU's only way to prevent members from leaving is by scaring them into staying in, they will leave anyway in the end, 100% certain. You can't keep a union by doing that, countries won't act like abused wives in a bad relationship.

Imagine if another crisis hits Greece again, you really think the EU's solution is to hit them harder to keep them in?

The more the EU would try to lash out at those that get out or want to get out, the more backlash there will be. If the EU starts to try and negatively affect the UK economy on purpose because it left, the UK will have an interest in chipping away at it too.

The only way the EU can really limit the impact on itself is agreeing to negotiations with the UK. Otherwise it's down into disintegration.

 

[Tak3n]

At times like this the polls that I believe most are the ones from those with most to lose aka the bookies.

They are still hugely confident of a remain vote.

The reality is, they just don't know, no one does...they are simply playing the logic that people dont like change, and we often go with the mantra, better the devil you know...

and bookies work by laying off bets, and the odds are 1.4 to leave and 3.0 to stay.... in a 2 horse race that is close odds (as daft as that sounds) for example at tennis you will regularly see 3.0 players winning

the heavy odds movement is with Brexit at the moment

 

[PJV3]

Blame the electorate for the failure of Labour's inept In campaign to reach its own heartlands. Yep, sums up the current shocking state of the Labour party quite well.

It's hardly some fucking secret etched in runes on the dark side of the moon.

I get the criticism about Corbyn not being overly active or enthusiastic about the in campaign, but to not know the basic position of the opposition is ridiculous.

 

[Tak3n]

I am really surprised the leave campaign have not been hitting Scotland with the 'Vote leave if you want another referendum'

I mean looking at it, if it is as close as we think Scotland will effectively have the deciding hand (one could argue all day long on the merits of that being allowed) but if we remain, the referendum is up in smoke for 20 years... Vote leave in Scotland and they will likely get another one soon

 

[Tak3n]

It's hardly some fucking secret etched in runes on the dark side of the moon.

indeed and speaking of odds Conservatives are 1.4 to win the next election! that tells you how fucked Labour are

 

[JonathanEx]

I love the inverse relationship between number of items labeled and quality when it comes to political cartoons.

 

[dapperbandit]

Never thought I'd see people post Ben Garrison cartoons on GAF... you realise he's like a hero to internet Nazis, right?

From my Facebook wall.

Choose .jpg artifacts

 

[PJV3]

indeed and speaking of odds Conservatives are 1.4 to win the next election! that tells you how fucked Labour are

The electorate is broadly conservative, that's just how it is.

 

[Hasney]

I am really surprised the leave campaign have not been hitting Scotland with the 'Vote leave if you want another referendum'

I mean looking at it, if it is as close as we think Scotland will effectively have the deciding hand (one could argue all day long on the merits of that being allowed) but if we remain, the referendum is up in smoke for 20 years... Vote leave in Scotland and they will likely get another one soon

Because that would require remain to win in Scotland to require disagreement and many in the leave campaign want Scotland to stay too.

 

[Sarek]

The more the EU would try to lash out at those that get out or want to get out, the more backlash there will be. If the EU starts to try and negatively affect the UK economy on purpose because it left, the UK will have an interest in chipping away at it too.

The only way the EU can really limit the impact on itself is agreeing to negotiations with the UK. Otherwise it's down into disintegration.

Of course there will be negotiations. I don't think there is going to be much good will towards the UK on the EU side though.

 

[Linkyn]

Your political cartoon is pretty bad if you have to label everything for people to understand what is going on.

 

[Alx]

I love the inverse relationship between number of items labeled and quality when it comes to political cartoons.

That's what I was thinking too. If you have to explain everything in your cartoon, it's not a very good one to begin with.

 

[Emdeepee]

The electorate is broadly conservative, that's just how it is.

The Conservatives won 37% of the vote in the 2015 election. Central and left leaning vote was split between Labour (31%), Lib Dems (8%), SNP (5%) and Greens (4%). UKIP won 13% of the vote and whilst they are made of of traditionally conservative policies and politicians they have attracted lots of votes from both sides of the political spectrum.

Anyway, my point is the UK electorate is anything but Conservative, even with a small 'c'. The reason they will win again is our electoral system is fucked . As much as I hate UKIP, their 13% of the vote won them 1 out of 650 seats, which is no way to run a democracy.

A strong Labour message can reach a lot of the electorate and is vital for a remain win, the lack of one is very disappointing.

 

[DrFurbs]

You know what. I've watched a whole bunch of news clips from Sweden, Italy, Poland, Greece etc last night concerning how unchecked immigration is destroying communities and increasing tensions. Rape is 1472% higher in Sweden now and what was once the safest country in Europe if not the world is not the second highest. Wtf.

I don't care, it's not all about GDP, it's about quality of life for law abiding citizens. After what I watched across numerous news reports and dozens of huge mass protests (incidently none of which are ever broadcast here surprise surprise) I'm definitely voting out as is my friends.

How on earth could anyone think this unchecked mass migration was a good idea unless you're a business owner looking to save money.

I'm out.

 

[Par Score]

You know what. I've watched a whole bunch of news clips from Sweden, Italy, Poland, Greece etc last night concerning how unchecked immigration is destroying communities and increasing tensions. Rape is 1472% higher in Sweden now and what was once the safest country in Europe if not the world is not the second highest. Wtf.

I don't care, it's not all about GDP, it's about quality of life for law abiding citizens. After what I watched across numerous news reports and dozens of huge mass protests (incidently none of which are ever broadcast here surprise surprise) I'm definitely voting out as is my friends.

How on earth could anyone think this unchecked mass migration was a good idea unless you're a business owner looking to save money.

I'm out.

What does any of this have to do with the EU?

We'll have exactly the same amount of control over our borders if we leave as we do now, with the exception that EU nationals will require a work permit or visa in certain circumstances.

If you think leaving the EU will magically stop people wanting to immigrate to our fabulously wealthy and attractive country (I mean, it might, by making us less fabulously wealthy I suppose, but that's probably not what you have in mind), or somehow decrease the amount of rapes committed in Sweden (or anywhere else) then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

[DrFurbs]

Well for a start. We can ease the checks on those who are talented in STEM. Apparently it takes far far longer to get well qualified individuals as opposed to unskilled labour. We can cut immigration immediately by installing some sort of point system.

What I seen over the last week is directly related to being in the EU (although many of the bigger problems in those other countries are from immigration from further afield).

 

[RedShift]

Ben Garrison is a deeply unpleasant person. Most of his cartoons nowadays are about how perfect Trump is right?

Him (and Trump) supporting Brexit makes me feel very validated in voting remain earlier today by post.

 

[StarVigil]

Hey UK, please don't leave, I wanna move to London, soon, ok??

 

[brain_stew]

It's hardly some fucking secret etched in runes on the dark side of the moon.

I get the criticism about Corbyn not being overly active or enthusiastic about the in campaign, but to not know the basic position of the opposition is ridiculous.

It is a simple failure of said opposition, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Jackpot]

Rape is 1472% higher in Sweden now and what was once the safest country in Europe if not the world is not the second highest. Wtf.

I don't care, it's not all about GDP, it's about quality of life for law abiding citizens. After what I watched across numerous news reports and dozens of huge mass protests (incidently none of which are ever broadcast here surprise surprise) I'm definitely voting out as is my friends.

How on earth could anyone think this unchecked mass migration was a good idea unless you're a business owner looking to save money.

I'm out.

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

From 2012:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372

Which two countries are the kidnapping capitals of the world?
Australia and Canada.

Official figures from the United Nations show that there were 17 kidnaps per 100,000 people in Australia in 2010 and 12.7 in Canada.

That compares with only 0.6 in Colombia and 1.1 in Mexico.

So why haven't we heard any of these horror stories? Are people being grabbed off the street in Sydney and Toronto, while the world turns a blind eye?

No, the high numbers of kidnapping cases in these two countries are explained by the fact that parental disputes over child custody are included in the figures.

Sweden has the highest rape rate in Europe, author Naomi Wolf said on the BBC's Newsnight programme recently. She was commenting on the case of Julian Assange, the Wikileaks founder who is fighting extradition from the UK to Sweden over rape and sexual assault allegations that he denies.

Is it true? Yes. The Swedish police recorded the highest number of offences - about 63 per 100,000 inhabitants - of any force in Europe, in 2010. The second-highest in the world.

This was three times higher than the number of cases in the same year in Sweden's next-door neighbour, Norway, and twice the rate in the United States and the UK. It was more than 30 times the number in India, which recorded about two offences per 100,000 people.

On the face of it, it would seem Sweden is a much more dangerous place than these other countries.

But that is a misconception, according to Klara Selin, a sociologist at the National Council for Crime Prevention in Stockholm. She says you cannot compare countries' records, because police procedures and legal definitions vary widely.

The thing is, the number of reported rapes has been going up in Sweden - it's almost trebled in just the last seven years. In 2003, about 2,200 offences were reported by the police, compared to nearly 6,000 in 2010.

So something's going on.

But Klara Selin says the statistics don't represent a major crime epidemic, rather a shift in attitudes. The public debate about this sort of crime in Sweden over the past two decades has had the effect of raising awareness, she says, and encouraging women to go to the police if they have been attacked.

The police have also made efforts to improve their handling of cases, she suggests, though she doesn't deny that there has been some real increase in the number of attacks taking place - a concern also outlined in an Amnesty International report in 2010.

"There might also be some increase in actual crime because of societal changes. Due to the internet, for example, it's much easier these days to meet somebody, just the same evening if you want to. Also, alcohol consumption has increased quite a lot during this period.

"But the major explanation is partly that people go to the police more often, but also the fact that in 2005 there has been reform in the sex crime legislation, which made the legal definition of rape much wider than before."

The change in law meant that cases where the victim was asleep or intoxicated are now included in the figures. Previously they'd been recorded as another category of crime.
So an on-the-face-of-it international comparison of rape statistics can be misleading.

Botswana has the highest rate of recorded attacks - 92.9 per 100,000 people - but a total of 63 countries don't submit any statistics, including South Africa, where a survey three years ago showed that one in four men questioned admitted to rape.

In 2010, an Amnesty International report highlighted that sexual violence happens in every single country, and yet the official figures show that some countries like Hong Kong and Mongolia have zero cases reported.

Evidently, women in some countries are much less likely to report an attack than in others and are much less likely to have their complaint recorded.

So 1472% higher than... what? Last year? No, 40 years ago and not even accounting for the changes in the way Sweden used to define and record the crime of rape. Searching I found the source of the figure that all the other articles were referring to (articles all from 2015 that claimed only now Sweden is "the rape capital of Europe" and linking it to the influx of refugees from Syria, despite it having the highest rape rate for years before then):

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape

Forty years after the Swedish parliament unanimously decided to change the formerly homogenous Sweden into a multicultural country, violent crime has increased by 300% and rapes by 1,472%. Sweden is now number two on the list of rape countries, surpassed only by Lesotho in Southern Africa.

That's a rather... subjective phrasing of a statistic. And as you've just read in the BBC article, the reason rape crime stats in places like Sweden can appear on a par with Lesotho is because other countries claim a 0% sex crime rate or don't submit records entirely and have a very, very different definition of the crime. Which any sociology student researching this area would know.

So who the hell are the Gatestone Institute? What else have they written?

Spain: "Soon the Muslims Will Be the Kings of the World"

While Spanish Muslims are busy trying to Islamize Spain, Spanish politicians are busy removing all references to Christianity from public discourse…The requirement which will be enshrined in Spain's legal code law, represents an unprecedented encroachment of Islamic Sharia law within Spanish jurisprudence.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3780/spain-muslims-kings

oh.

Britain's Islamic Future

The moment that the white British become a minority will symbolize a huge transfer of power -- cultural political, economic and religious -- an "irreversible change in British society, unprecedented for at least a millennium." — David Coleman, Professor of Demography, University of Oxford

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3735/britain-islamic-future

oh, my.

In fact they seem to write exclusively about the Islamic takeover of countries. A quick google search shows they invited Geert Wilders to the US and their articles are championed by the far-right. Linking to them even got banned from Reddit.

http://www.thenation.com/article/sugar-mama-anti-muslim-hate/

 

[PJV3]

It is a simple failure of said opposition, nothing more, nothing less.

We will just have to disagree, Somehow I managed to decode the secret of the Corbynistas without even trying.

 

[CyclopsRock]

The Conservatives won 37% of the vote in the 2015 election. Central and left leaning vote was split between Labour (31%), Lib Dems (8%), SNP (5%) and Greens (4%). UKIP won 13% of the vote and whilst they are made of of traditionally conservative policies and politicians they have attracted lots of votes from both sides of the political spectrum.

Anyway, my point is the UK electorate is anything but Conservative, even with a small 'c'. The reason they will win again is our electoral system is fucked . As much as I hate UKIP, their 13% of the vote won them 1 out of 650 seats, which is no way to run a democracy.

A strong Labour message can reach a lot of the electorate and is vital for a remain win, the lack of one is very disappointing.

I generally agree with you that the electoral system is such that parties get horribly disproportionate levels of power but in the last election, the divide between voteshare for "right" and "left" parties was almost perfectly 50/50, and the Conservative majority is incredibly slender. Generally speaking, those two outcomes are more or less in line with one another. So whilst I think it's true that the UK electorate is not overtly conservative with a small c, I think it's a bit much to say they're "anything but". They are, to the tune of about 50%, which is exactly how it should be.

 

[Beefy]

How long before this thread becomes a cesspool?

 

[PJV3]

I generally agree with you that the electoral system is such that parties get horribly disproportionate levels of power but in the last election, the divide between voteshare for "right" and "left" parties was almost perfectly 50/50, and the Conservative majority is incredibly slender. Generally speaking, those two outcomes are more or less in line with one another. So whilst I think it's true that the UK electorate is not overtly conservative with a small c, I think it's a bit much to say they're "anything but". They are, to the tune of about 50%, which is exactly how it should be.

It depends what we mean by left wing I suppose, a good chunk of libdems would put the Tories to shame on unions etc. And again with some in the Labour party on various issues.

Broadly conservative might not be correct though I suppose.

 

[Hasney]

How long before this thread becomes a cesspool?

Well, I don't think we can get much lower than someone blaming a 4 figure % increase in rape on immigration without doing the most basic research without people being banned, so it should be fine.

 

[KingSnake]

How long before this thread becomes a cesspool?

Can it go lower than posting racist/xenophobic cartoons and quoting statistics from hate sites?

 

[Jasup]

Can it go lower than posting racist/xenophobic cartoons and quoting statistics from hate sites?

Well, considering that the REMAIN campaign is headed by a man who's instrumental in the founding of eurosceptic ECR group, you really have to be prepared for a lot of silliness.

 

[Camoxide]

Came across this gem on Facebook:

Wasn't being used sarcastically...

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Predictions added to OP (thanks JonathanEx!)

 

[Moosichu]

Came across this gem on Facebook:



Wasn't being used sarcastically...

Just. *calming breath* Hope this is only believed by a minority of people.

 

[DiGiKerot]

Came across this gem on Facebook:



Wasn't being used sarcastically...

Wait, they're granting people being called Frank?!!?

That's it, I'm out.

 

[Beefy]

Can it go lower than posting racist/xenophobic cartoons and quoting statistics from hate sites?

Well, I don't think we can get much lower than someone blaming a 4 figure % increase in rape on immigration without doing the most basic research without people being banned, so it should be fine.

Are you sure? This is gaf. It wouldn't surprise me it gets worse the closer the vote gets.

 

[Walshicus]

It is a simple failure of said opposition, nothing more, nothing less.

My twitter feed is pretty much full of Corbyn posting from various Remain events he's attending while travelling the country. If the media aren't going to report on that stuff, then what more do you think he should do?

 

[Moosichu]

My twitter feed is pretty much full of Corbyn posting from various Remain events he's attending while travelling the country. If the media aren't going to report on that stuff, then what more do you think he should do?

Basically. Tom Watson said it's the most ridiculous criticism of Corbyn he's come across yet.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Are you sure? This is gaf. It wouldn't surprise me it gets worse the closer the vote gets.

Meh, I think it'll be fine. The thread's been fairly cordial and level-headed so far. If that one political cartoon is the worst thing that's been posted then I think we're doing alright tbh.

 

[Royal_Phalanx]

The points mentioning Sweden don't know Swedish law apparently.

 

[danowat]

How long before this thread becomes a cesspool?

It's already there, some blatant racist posts up in here.

 

[Maledict]

My twitter feed is pretty much full of Corbyn posting from various Remain events he's attending while travelling the country. If the media aren't going to report on that stuff, then what more do you think he should do?

Start giving speeches that don't start with a list of complaints about Europe.

Actually sound like you give a damn in one of these speeches.

Start using the Labour Party levers to activate and inform it's vote in the north.

Don't go on holiday for two weeks of the campaign.

Some of the people I work with are very active and high up in the party. They are all frustrated and angry about the lack of Labour drive for the Remain campaign. At some point, you have to just acknowledge he's doing a shit job because he actually would vote Leave if he wasn't leader.

 

[Tak3n]

Start giving speeches that don't start with a list of complaints about Europe.

Actually sound like you give a damn in one of these speeches.

Start using the Labour Party levers to activate and inform it's vote in the north.

Don't go on holiday for two weeks of the campaign.

Some of the people I work with are very active and high up in the party. They are all frustrated and angry about the lack of Labour drive for the Remain campaign. At some point, you have to just acknowledge he's doing a shit job because he actually would vote Leave if he wasn't leader.

I think it is sad that he can not say he wants to leave....that union money. He got the leadership for being different and now it feels like he is being forced to tow a line he does not really want to

 

[Lego Boss]

How long before this thread becomes a cesspool?

How much longer?

Didn't we reach that point 20 pages ago?

 

[Starwolf_UK]

Wait, they're granting people being called Frank?!!?

I didn't notice that typo, at least I got some joy from reading that. It really needed divorce and margarine consumption (i.e. the classic example of correlation not being causation which goes to all the things in there...though really that is giving them too much credit and it is more using the EU as a scapegoat).

 

[pixelpatch]

This is so close to call and I really don't know what way it is going to head.