Support NeoGAF

[PJV3]

I think it is sad that he can not say he wants to leave....that union money. He got the leadership for being different and now it feels like he is being forced to tow a line he does not really want to

I think it's fine he has compromised, it's not some moral issue like the death penalty. I also like him finally giving a voice to the problems people on the left have with the EU.

It's a shame a politician is getting hammered for being honest and measured about It.

 

[Maledict]

I think it is sad that he can not say he wants to leave....that union money. He got the leadership for being different and now it feels like he is being forced to tow a line he does not really want to

The people who voted him in are some of the most pre-european people in the party. He wasn't elected by a landslide of working class, anti-immigration voters. This is one of those times where people voted for someone without actually understanding their beliefs and stances.

Its should actually be a cause of concern for Corbyn - if remain fails, and we vote to leave, there's a decent chance we'll see a rupture in Labour as well as those MPs looking to get rid of him (and there are more now than there were 2 months ago) will use this as a wedge issue to undermine his support with the party.

 

[Milton]

My twitter feed is pretty much full of Corbyn posting from various Remain events he's attending while travelling the country. If the media aren't going to report on that stuff, then what more do you think he should do?

Mr and Mrs Average Joe Bloggs don't give a fuck about Twitter.

I just checked his Twitter feed. Absolutely nothing newsworthy at all.

Part of the reason why Corbyn is such an inept leader is because he either doesn't know how to use the media to his advantage, or he doesn't want to.

 

[Moosichu]

I think it is sad that he can not say he wants to leave....that union money. He got the leadership for being different and now it feels like he is being forced to tow a line he does not really want to

What if, he's actually been convinced being in the EU is better than being out of it? His speeches a very well measured and he seems sincere in saying that we should stay in.

 

[ultratruman]

Corbyn has been totally, wilfully feckless on the most important political issue of this century so far. It's heartbreaking.

When will the labour party grow a spine and reverse this trend of increasingly hopeless leaders, and put Hilary Benn at the top of the party?

 

[ghst]

chicken tikka with salad in a naan bread is the elite tier of kebab shop orders.

 

[Goodlife]

Corbyn has been totally, wilfully feckless on the most important political issue of this century so far. It's heartbreaking.

When will the labour party grow a spine and reverse this trend of increasingly hopeless leaders, and put Hilary Benn at the top of the party?

Hahahahahahahahaha

This is a joke, yes?
Please tell me this is a joke.
And if not, please tell me you know a little more about Benn then that shit speech he gave on Syria?

 

[Jimbob Smalls]

I think it is sad that he can not say he wants to leave....that union money. He got the leadership for being different and now it feels like he is being forced to tow a line he does not really want to

Corbyn yesterday said on the TV that on a scale of one to 10 his desire to remain is a 7. He said that whilst gritting his teeth and shaking his head.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

chicken tikka with salad in a naan bread is the elite tier of kebab shop orders.

Naan kebabs >> pitta kebabs

My life changed when I discovered this.

 

[Mr Cola]

Is this genuinely going to be close? I always assumed it was a hot bother about nothing and remain would win handedly.

 

[Maledict]

Is this genuinely going to be close? I always assumed it was a hot bother about nothing and remain would win handedly.

We've had literally thirty years of lies, bile and garbage poured down our throats by the countries Newspapers. Add into that the same growing tide of racism and anti-isolation that is appearing in every western country, along with the dim economic prospects, and it's easy to see how we could vote to leave.

I do think people have underestimated exactly *how* anti-EU our press is, and the impact that's had. Entire generations have been raised on this rubbish.

 

[Mr Cola]

We've had literally thirty years of lies, bile and garbage poured down our throats by the countries Newspapers. Add into that the same growing tide of racism and anti-isolation that is appearing in every western country, along with the dim economic prospects, and it's easy to see how we could vote to leave.

I do think people have underestimated exactly *how* anti-EU our press is, and the impact that's had. Entire generations have been raised on this rubbish.

I think the thing that gets me is, I have watched a load of debates now, I have seen Marrs programme, Andrew Neils interviews, I feel as though I have given this a fair shake and the only thing im left with is almost a vile hatred for politics and no clearer understanding of who is telling the truth, just a bunch of people hoping the shit they sling at the other side resonates more than the shit thrown at them. It has thoroughly put me off the political process and everyone involved, that being the case I still assumed remain would win because "better the devil you know" and the fact that fear genuinely works as a selling point.

 

[Psychotext]

Naan kebabs >> pitta kebabs

My life changed when I discovered this.

Agreed. Sadly they're hard to get near me.

 

[hodgy100]

i feel like cameron has his hands tied behind his back when trying to deal with a-lot of the drexit arguments. can't really counter "immigrants are putting a strain on the NHS" with the truth, when the truth is "The NHS is in the shitter because we cut funding and made ridiculous targets".

 

[Tak3n]

I think the thing that gets me is, I have watched a load of debates now, I have seen Marrs programme, Andrew Neils interviews, I feel as though I have given this a fair shake and the only thing im left with is almost a vile hatred for politics and no clearer understanding of who is telling the truth, just a bunch of people hoping the shit they sling at the other side resonates more than the shit thrown at them. It has thoroughly put me off the political process and everyone involved, that being the case I still assumed remain would win because "better the devil you know" and the fact that fear genuinely works as a selling point.

PM questions will tell you all you need to know, reasoned debate is never on show, it is always he who shouts loudest...

When Corbyn tried to have a reasonable debate Cameron just ignores the question and insults him and the party

 

[Walshicus]

When Corbyn tried to have a reasonable debate Cameron just ignores the question and insults him and the party

And then gets criticised for bout being aggressive enough...

 

[Tak3n]

oh hold your horses

Remain definitely in a panic now, Gordon Brown is being rolled out (which is Ironic as it was him who claimed only 20,000 polish were coming)

he is credited for winning the remain for Scotland, so here he comes!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36513921

Former PM Gordon Brown is to tell Labour voters they have the "most to gain" if the UK stays in the European Union, as the party seeks to rally its supporters behind the Remain campaign.
In a speech later, he will say the EU can deliver policies close to their concerns including tackling corporate tax avoidance and creating jobs.
Mr Brown will make what he is calling the "positive" case for staying in.
Vote Leave has dismissed what it called a "hastily cobbled together relaunch".
In other EU referendum campaign developments:

 

[Ghost]

I love how people think political strategists are panicking when they add more voices as they get closer to polling day, rolling out Gordon in the last week worked so well the last time, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing again?

 

[Tak3n]

I love how people think political strategists are panicking when they add more voices as they get closer to polling day, rolling out Gordon in the last week worked so well the last time, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing again?

Because he was rolled out last time at the end because the polls were tight, and Tory strategists now think it is Labour voters who will decide this referendum so they are rolling him out

If Remain were 60/40 he would not be being used, and the leave campaign should be able to bury him in a second, as I mentioned it was him to told us all how few people were coming from Eastern Europe

 

[Walshicus]

Eh. Both sides are trying to get as many voices as they can to push their respective messages. With anything like this if the absence of it is more surprising than it's presence, why treat it as unusual?

 

[Ghost]

Because he was rolled out last time at the end because the polls were tight, and Tory strategists now think it is Labour voters who will decide this referendum so they are rolling him out

If Remain were 60/40 he would not be being used

Sure but they've known it isn't going to be 60/40 for months, and I'm sure rolling him out in the last couple of weeks has been part of the plan for at least that long.

 

[Milton]

PM questions will tell you all you need to know, reasoned debate is never on show, it is always he who shouts loudest...

When Corbyn tried to have a reasonable debate Cameron just ignores the question and insults him and the party

If Corbyn thinks PMQs is about 'reasonable debate' then he's even more useless than I thought. For the PM and the leader of the opposition PMQs is theatre. Always has been. If you can't hack it at the despatch box, you're fucked.

This is what a leader of the opposition who understands the nature of PMQs looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZUMEgHmCY8

 

[Tak3n]

Eh. Both sides are trying to get as many voices as they can to push their respective messages. With anything like this if the absence of it is more surprising than it's presence, why treat it as unusual?

Well obviously I can only go on what he did, and a lot of voters may not remember, but to me he is toxic, a bit like asking the late Margaret Thatcher to do a talk on coal mines

 

[Walshicus]

Don't get me wrong, I ended up disliking him too. I'm just sure we'll see far more people get involved in the coming days.

 

[JonathanEx]

The Sun are planning a stunt with Boris and Gove. Looks like the inevitable will happen as they come out for Leave. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/742276125817200640

 

[Hasney]

The Sun are planning a stunt with Boris and Gove. Looks like the inevitable will happen as they come out for Leave. https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/742276125817200640

I only see front page headlines when I walk past some days, but hadn't they come out already? If not they were very obvious.

 

[JonathanEx]

I only see front page headlines when I walk past some days, but hadn't they come out already? If not they were very obvious.

They've been pretty fucking blatant, but not officially endorsed. We're at the stage where there's a decent number of people going "I don't know how to vote" and them writing "LOOK VOTE LEAVE, ISN'T BORIS GREAT" in size 72 on the cover could matter :/


Edit: Oh, might not be that even with both Gove and Boris milling around - might be a repeat of their 'cabbie interviews' series. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/818109/sun-cabbie-grills-ed-on-european-elections/

 

[orochi91]

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

From 2012:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372









So 1472% higher than... what? Last year? No, 40 years ago and not even accounting for the changes in the way Sweden used to define and record the crime of rape. Searching I found the source of the figure that all the other articles were referring to (articles all from 2015 that claimed only now Sweden is "the rape capital of Europe" and linking it to the influx of refugees from Syria, despite it having the highest rape rate for years before then):

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape



That's a rather... subjective phrasing of a statistic. And as you've just read in the BBC article, the reason rape crime stats in places like Sweden can appear on a par with Lesotho is because other countries claim a 0% sex crime rate or don't submit records entirely and have a very, very different definition of the crime. Which any sociology student researching this area would know.

So who the hell are the Gatestone Institute? What else have they written?



http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3780/spain-muslims-kings

oh.



http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3735/britain-islamic-future

oh, my.

In fact they seem to write exclusively about the Islamic takeover of countries. A quick google search shows they invited Geert Wilders to the US and their articles are championed by the far-right. Linking to them even got banned from Reddit.

http://www.thenation.com/article/sugar-mama-anti-muslim-hate/

That's a pretty thorough smackdown.

Bravo!

 

[Pandy]

Corbyn has been totally, wilfully feckless on the most important political issue of this century so far. It's heartbreaking.

When will the labour party grow a spine and reverse this trend of increasingly hopeless leaders, and put Hilary Benn at the top of the party?

Great joke post.

Postal vote going in today. I really have no idea how this is going to play out, even in my local region, but what I do know is that the Leave camp are the ones shouting loudest at the moment, and people can often misconstrue that as winning the argument.

 

[Orbis]

I wonder if the very idea of economic uncertainty and potential job loss will swing some people to vote Remain on the day when they have that ballot in front of them. That's without considering the undecided voters in the polls currently. The bookies seem fairly confident.

I still think Leave could win, especially if momentum is maintained.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Gordon Brown? Jesus wept.

Leave voters are voting mainly on emotion. They aren't going to listen to the dull economic arguments of a man who led us through a terrible recession and is generally remembered as being boring and a bit shit.

There have been a few "focus group" shows on "undecideds" to see what way they vote. Almost always, they ignore the economic and factual arguments (too complicated) and just look at the person giving the arguments - in the end choosing the person they like the most.

Seeing Gordon Brown argue for remain is going to make an awful lot of leave voters feel like doubling-down with, "Well if that twat is arguing for remain, I'm definitely voting leave".

Are we really that fucked?

 

[Maledict]

Gordon Brown isn't being rolled out to persuade middle England. He's being used, like he was in Scotland, to selectively target key labour groups that are currently not engaged or informed on the vote and labours stance.

To the core labour vote, which is essential for Remain to win, Gotdon Brown is still seen as a good figure whose stature has actually grown since leaving office. Assuming they do it in the right way it will be a positive for remain.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

I love how people think political strategists are panicking when they add more voices as they get closer to polling day, rolling out Gordon in the last week worked so well the last time, why wouldn't they do the exact same thing again?

It was a panicked move last time, so doing the same thing this time is just repeating a panicked move again.

Of course, it also seemed to work last time. We'll see if the same thing happens here.

 

[liquidtmd]

I was indeed impressed with Gordon Browns speech in relation to Scotland Ref but I'm not sure he's a good fit here for the Remain camp in terms of connecting with the undecided.

 

[Milton]

Of course, it also seemed to work last time.

In Scotland. On an issue that didn't include immigration.

85% of the UK's population - and most Labour voters - are in England. Now the man who famously called a pensioner "bigoted" because she challenged him on immigration is being wheeled out to argue the case for the status quo. He's likely to lose more votes than he gains.

 

[Goodlife]

I was indeed impressed with Gordon Browns speech in relation to Scotland Ref but I'm not sure he's a good fit here for the Remain camp in terms of connecting with the undecided.

Its more about getting the "I don't really care, can't be arsed to vote" people out to vote, rather than the "I'm going to vote, but don't know how yet"

 

[mr-paul]

This isn't Gordon Brown just being rolled out. He did a big speech on it a few weeks back which was widely reported on by the press. This is him just continuing his part in the campaign.

So much hyperbole over nothing.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

In Scotland. On an issue that didn't include immigration.

85% of the UK's population - and most Labour voters - are in England. Now the man who famously called a pensioner "bigoted" because she challenged him on immigration is being wheeled out to argue the case for the status quo. He's likely to lose more votes than he gains.

I had forgot all about Bigotgate. I'm sure The Sun will bring that up if they officially come out and endorse Vote Leave.

 

[Beefy]

Has this been posted?

EU's Tusk says Brexit could threaten western political civilization.


BERLIN (Reuters) - If Britons vote to leave the European Union in a June 23 referendum it could be the beginning of the end for the 28-nation bloc and for western political civilization more generally, European Council President Donald Tusk said.

In an interview with German newspaper Bild, Tusk said a so-called Brexit vote would provide a major boost to radical anti-European forces who he said would be "drinking champagne".

"Why is it so dangerous? Because no one can foresee what the long-term consequences would be," Tusk said. "As a historian I fear that Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also of western political civilization in its entirety."

Everyone in the European Union would lose out economically if Britain left, Tusk said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-tusk-idUSKCN0YZ0Q9

 

[Milton]

"As a historian I fear that Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also of western political civilization in its entirety."

The reaction of normal people everywhere:

 

[ClosingADoor]

You know what. I've watched a whole bunch of news clips from Sweden, Italy, Poland, Greece etc last night concerning how unchecked immigration is destroying communities and increasing tensions. Rape is 1472% higher in Sweden now and what was once the safest country in Europe if not the world is not the second highest. Wtf.

I don't care, it's not all about GDP, it's about quality of life for law abiding citizens. After what I watched across numerous news reports and dozens of huge mass protests (incidently none of which are ever broadcast here surprise surprise) I'm definitely voting out as is my friends.

How on earth could anyone think this unchecked mass migration was a good idea unless you're a business owner looking to save money.

I'm out.

A previous poster already called out this bullshit. But if you are afraid of mass migration, the UK as it is now DOES NOT HAVE OPEN BORDERS. It does not matter who comes to Sweden or Germany for you. People can not get into the UK without a check. Why do you think all those illegal immigrants or in Calais instead of in the UK? Because you have border checks. Within the EU. As the only one. Which is not going to change if the UK doesn't want it to.

The reaction of normal people everywhere:

The problem will not be so much Britain leaving, but the rest of EU countries that might follow. The anti-EU sentiment based on nothing but bullshit lately is off the charts. Everything is blamed on the EU instead of nations own governments, and those politicians are happy to point to big bad Brussels to hide their own faults.

The amount of nonsense about the EU I sometimes hear here in Holland, a country which has an economy pretty much based on trade and massive economic ties to Europe and Germany in paticular, is off the charts.

 

[anonymous_abc]

The reaction of normal people everywhere:

Many societies in history thought they were on top of their game before they fell...
Not saying Tusk is right, but it would be too easy to just dismiss it out of hand.

 

[Milton]

Many societies in history thought they were on top of their game before they fell...
Not saying Tusk is right, but it would be too easy to just dismiss it out of hand.

It is both hilarious and execrable scare mongering. "The destruction of western political civilisation in its entirety"? Bitch please. People are just going to laugh at this.

 

[2MF]

It is both hilarious and execrable scare mongering. "The destruction of western political civilisation in its entirety"? Bitch please. People are just going to laugh at this.

If it's just the "political civilization" (as opposed to the whole civilization) I think many people would rightly celebrate...

 

[anonymous_abc]

It is both hilarious and execrable scare mongering. "The destruction of western political civilisation in its entirety"? Bitch please. People are just going to laugh at this.

I hope you're right. Literally eating crow in a dystopian future doesn't sound like fun.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

A previous poster already called out this bullshit. But if you are afraid of mass migration, the UK as it is now DOES NOT HAVE OPEN BORDERS. It does not matter who comes to Sweden or Germany for you. People can not get into the UK without a check. Why do you think all those illegal immigrants or in Calais instead of in the UK? Because you have border checks. Within the EU. As the only one. Which is not going to change if the UK doesn't want it to.

Hey come on, Ireland too.

In an interview with German newspaper Bild, Tusk said a so-called Brexit vote would provide a major boost to radical anti-European forces who he said would be "drinking champagne".

Lol I wonder how many gallons of champagne Tusk himself has quaffed on my dime.

 

[mangochutney]

Brown was wheeled out a while ago, you people are not paying enough attention.

To be fair he did a good job in the Scottish referendum. As useless as he was as PM.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Lol I wonder how many gallons of champagne Tusk himself has quaffed on my dime.

I dont think thats meant literally

 

[QuicheFontaine]

It is both hilarious and execrable scare mongering. "The destruction of western political civilisation in its entirety"? Bitch please. People are just going to laugh at this.

To be honest, this seems like a downgrade after the World War Three scaremongering. They didn't leave themselves anywhere to go from there :-/

 

[Lego Boss]

Has this been posted?

EU's Tusk says Brexit could threaten western political civilization.


BERLIN (Reuters) - If Britons vote to leave the European Union in a June 23 referendum it could be the beginning of the end for the 28-nation bloc and for western political civilization more generally, European Council President Donald Tusk said.

In an interview with German newspaper Bild, Tusk said a so-called Brexit vote would provide a major boost to radical anti-European forces who he said would be "drinking champagne".

"Why is it so dangerous? Because no one can foresee what the long-term consequences would be," Tusk said. "As a historian I fear that Brexit could be the beginning of the destruction of not only the EU but also of western political civilization in its entirety."

Everyone in the European Union would lose out economically if Britain left, Tusk said.


http://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-tusk-idUSKCN0YZ0Q9

I think it wills signal the end of the European project. I don't think it is incorrect to assume that if BREXIT happens, Sweden, Denmark and possibly Netherlands will hold referendums.

Thise that can't exit (Italy, Spain, Greece, Ireland) will be tied down more and more by the ECB which doesn't take into account the vagaries of local economies and that will create resentment and possibly further fracture.

I think Tusk is right. This is a huge deal for Europe, probably as big as any of the crises that has beset it since the end of the Cold War.