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[sohois]

In absence of cancelling Brexit, this surely has got to be the most sensible option

I feel like that's not actually the case. It would be the best position for remain voters at this point but I feel like it would be pain for zero gain. For as disastrous as Brexit is, there are at least some advantages to leaving.

But this approach would allow none of those advantages, whilst also throwing away all the benefits the UK currently accrues as a full member. It would be inefficient in every respect.

 

[TrutaS]

Just read headline from the guardian "Gove says Brexit will boost exports of pigs' ears". Seems like a comedy bit straight out of Private Eye.

 

[liquidtmd]

Just read headline from the guardian "Gove says Brexit will boost exports of pigs' ears". Seems like a comedy bit straight out of Private Eye.

If there's one thing Gove knows about, it's making a pigs ear of things

 

[jelly]

It all leads to what is the point but nobody can say it. Just cancel it already. Wasting everyone's time.

As for May going with Hammond or that view, the fact that she got the job in the first place and is still there suggests nobody actually wants to hold the Brexit chalice. What are they actually waiting for if they want the job?

 

[Roberto Larcos]

As for May going with Hammond or that view, the fact that she got the job in the first place and is still there suggests nobody actually wants to hold the Brexit chalice. What are they actually waiting for if they want the job?

Boris is fine for May to take the hits, so long as his idea of Brexit is implemented anyway. If it keeps playing out the way it does, he'll assume control after Brexit is done – but don't think for a second that he's not perfectly willing to take the reins should his version of Brexit be put at risk. I'd argue the exact same is true of Davis.

 

[Orbis]

It all leads to what is the point but nobody can say it. Just cancel it already. Wasting everyone's time.

As for May going with Hammond or that view, the fact that she got the job in the first place and is still there suggests nobody actually wants to hold the Brexit chalice. What are they actually waiting for if they want the job?

They are waiting for things to be put into motion by somebody else, so they don't have to own the consequences, just steer them. Once May has committed to a path, she's gone.

 

[jelly]

Doesn't May know this then so she should ideally not be conforming to their views, selling the UK down the river and if she isn't willing to save us from Brexit why let them hook Brexit around your neck? Has she got 4D chess going on to get us soft/no Brexit. If she quits, that leaves Boris, Davis, Gove to sink us.

 

[*Splinter]

Doesn't May know this then so she should ideally not be conforming to their views, selling the UK down the river and if she isn't willing to save us from Brexit why let them hook Brexit around your neck? Has she got 4D chess going on to get us soft/no Brexit. If she quits, that leaves Boris, Davis, Gove to sink us.

She's incompetent and has no idea what to do

 

[travisbickle]

Just read headline from the guardian "Gove says Brexit will boost exports of pigs' ears". Seems like a comedy bit straight out of Private Eye.

As a pig's ear manufacturer I am happy to hear this.

 

[kmag]

Boris is fine for May to take the hits, so long as his idea of Brexit is implemented anyway. If it keeps playing out the way it does, he'll assume control after Brexit is done – but don't think for a second that he's not perfectly willing to take the reins should his version of Brexit be put at risk. I'd argue the exact same is true of Davis.

You're making the mistake of thinking Boris is a true believer in Brexit, he's not. He's simply positioning himself to take the reigns, but he's hoping to do so at a point where the Brexit deal with the EU is largely cemented, and he can say "well if we'd done it my way at the time."

 

[Roberto Larcos]

You're making the mistake of thinking Boris is a true believer in Brexit, he's not. He's simply positioning himself to take the reigns, but he's hoping to do so at a point where the Brexit deal with the EU is largely cemented, and he can say "well if we'd done it my way at the time."

That would make sense if Boris didn't intend to throw his hat into the ring to replace Cameron. He'd have been in charge of Brexit then, too.

And if not Boris, would Davis stand idly by? He has support in the party - and if the theory of a Boris only wanting to take over afterwards is true, surely he wouldn't mind Davis taking the wrap for Brexit instead of May?

 

[kmag]

That would make sense if Boris didn't intend to throw his hat into the ring to replace Cameron. He'd have been in charge of Brexit then, too.

And if not Boris, would Davis stand idly by? He has support in the party - and if the theory of a Boris only wanting to take over afterwards is true, surely he wouldn't mind Davis taking the wrap for Brexit instead of May?

Boris would have went for a far more moderate version in that scenario. He ramped back the rhetoric on Brexit almost immediately after the ref result, and has only really ramped it up as May has gotten weaker.

We're talking about a guy who had a pro-EU article and a pro-Brexit article written while he prevaricated over which route would improve his career prospects.

Boris has relatively few true ideological positions as people who know him keep saying. Source's close to Boris suggest that he's calculated that he's only got one more shot at leadership and it needs to be soon (https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/914047157698744320). Boris was never really popular with other Tory MP's, despite his popularity with the membership, Brexit gives him a constituency of MP's who'll back him.

 

[daviyoung]

As a pig's ear manufacturer I am happy to hear this.

I wouldn't be too happy. The Brexit commission's capability to make pigs ears gives you some tough competition.

 

[Burai]

That would make sense if Boris didn't intend to throw his hat into the ring to replace Cameron. He'd have been in charge of Brexit then, too.

Boris didn't intend to replace Cameron though. His leadership bid and Gove's subsequent "backstabbing" were so staged, Vince McMahon might as well have booked it.

 

[RenditMan]

Why are you surprised by this? These people are cunts. It has been a matter of public record that they are cunts to a man.

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

 

[Number45]

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

While I understand the frustration at people forever abusing people that voted to leave, I assume you understand what destablising the Northern Ireland peace process indicates? Not giving a shit about that absolutely deserves zero respect from anyone.

 

[Dougald]

I just don’t buy that people voted leave because someone said something slightly mean to them, it’s far deeper than that. I saw people using the same excuse for voting against gay marriage in Australia.

That attitude won’t change minds, but it doesn’t create this sort of result either

 

[Roberto Larcos]

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

If someone wants to destabilise the Northern Irish peace process they deserve far more than a slap in the face. Differing views on Brexit may be considered reasonable. Differing views on peace in Northern Ireland shouldn't be entertained.

You don't negotiate with terrorists. And Brexiteers who are happy to see terrorism return to the British Isles are as good as, in my opinion – that's not hyperbole. These are people saying that thousands being killed or injured is a fine price to pay for their ideological goals. If they were Muslim, it would be called terrorism.

EDIT: ALSO, I hope no-one makes the argument that destabilising the Northern Irish peace process doesn't mean terrorism. Firstly, we know Brexiteers skew older, which means a strong majority asked have a strong recollection of at least some of The Troubles. Secondly, everyone knows what 'destabilising the Northern Irish peace process' is code for, and it's not merely some arguments in Stormont and perhaps the return of direct rule.

 

[Moosichu]

The more and more info that emerges, the more it looks like that Monarch is one of the first big casualties of Brexit.

The collapse of the pound and the inability to find a buyer due to the uncertainty of aviation regulations in the UK after Brexit both led to its collapse this week.

 

[kmag]

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

Ah the old I wouldn't have voted the way I did, but you called me names.

Leavers man, bunch of children. Own the mess you made.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Theresa May has brushed off questions about Boris Johnson's recent Brexit comments - saying she does not want to be surrounded by "yes" men.

The prime minister told BBC Breakfast "leadership is about ensuring you have a team... of different voices around the table so you can discuss matters"

Mrs May was speaking ahead of a day in which the foreign secretary is due to deliver his key conference speech.

She’s so spineless. Yes men is exactly what you want during Brexit if you feel justified in your direction. In fact that’s what she’s claimed with this “United Cabinet” claim.

She doesn’t have a United cabinet. She has a bunch of tools in there, none of which are capable of driving the screws needed to make good deals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41475579

 

[avaya]

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

Please. I don't make excuses for racists and nationalists.

All your sort did was try to strip me of my rights as a European citizen. For me this is open war against some of the vilest most reprehensible people in society. The very worst of this country.

 

[Monty Mole]

Rees Mogg taking on a protester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...akes-on-protesters-you-re-a-despicable-person

 

[*Splinter]

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

 

[Acorn]

Rees Mogg taking on a protester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...akes-on-protesters-you-re-a-despicable-person

Should've brought his mums maid like his Dundee election bid.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

Rees Mogg taking on a protester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...akes-on-protesters-you-re-a-despicable-person

What an awful human being.

 

[Uzzy]

She’s so spineless. Yes men is exactly what you want during Brexit if you feel justified in your direction. In fact that’s what she’s claimed with this “United Cabinet” claim.

She doesn’t have a United cabinet. She has a bunch of tools in there, none of which are capable of driving the screws needed to make good deals.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41475579

She's conflating private discussion around the cabinet, where of course you want different voices expressing their views, and public discussion, where every cabinet minister has to be on the same page.

How can foreign governments trust May to uphold any commitments when they can plainly see that Boris has very different views and is the clear favourite to replace her, and could do at any time.

 

[Spuck-uk]

I really hope he ends up being the next leader of the Tories, he'd be absolute electoral poison to anyone outside of the braying upper class chinless wonders.

 

[PdotMichael]

It saddens me that you can't see it's attitudes like yours that caused people to vote the way they did.

You can't just say stuff like this and not expect a slap in the face.

Well, you got one. I hope you feel better.

I wouldn't have voted leave if you wouldn't have called leave voters cunts.

 

[Psychotext]

What an awful human being.

He really is quite vile.

The more and more info that emerges, the more it looks like that Monarch is one of the first big casualties of Brexit.

The collapse of the pound and the inability to find a buyer due to the uncertainty of aviation regulations in the UK after Brexit both led to its collapse this week.

Total bollocks. The problem is clearly that remoaners haven't got behind their country.

 

[Socivol]

How did Theresa May win that position? She is so fucking unlikeable and not personable at all. It's like she's on the spectrum because her social cues are clearly off.

 

[Acorn]

I really hope he ends up being the next leader of the Tories, he'd be absolute electoral poison to anyone outside of the braying upper class chinless wonders.

After last year I don't take anything for granted.

How did Theresa May win that position? She is so fucking unlikeable and not personable at all. It's like she's on the spectrum because her social cues are clearly off.

Gove and Leadsom were her opponents, she seemed amazing by comparison.

 

[TeamLeftMatch]

How did Theresa May win that position? She is so fucking unlikeable and not personable at all. It's like she's on the spectrum because her social cues are clearly off.

Didn't May become Prime Minister because no one else wanted the position after Cameron pretty much poisoned the chalice. I could be very wrong here but that's what I got.

On to the story of her not needing a "yes" man, this is her trying to cover up the fact that Boris is doing whatever he wants and she is too spineless to do anything about it. After all, would you put anything past the woman who wouldn't do anything to Trump after he insulted Sadiq Khan.

 

[RenditMan]

Ah the old I wouldn't have voted the way I did, but you called me names.

Leavers man, bunch of children. Own the mess you made.

I voted the way I did because I felt problems, serious problems weren't getting listened to. Not only they weren't getting listened to they were being ridiculed by people who couldn't possibly understand said problems. We've had decades of this narrow minded fingers in the ear approach to our EU membership by our politicians. Ultimately I blame the Blair regime, by the time the country saw through his spin and saw the huge social damage he was doing it was too late to recover.

What is clear is that there is an attempt to bully this country into political submission of the masses which is just serving to increase my resolve. I'd rather be a poor free man than a slightly less poor servant, sorry.

 

[TeddyBoy]

I really hope he ends up being the next leader of the Tories, he'd be absolute electoral poison to anyone outside of the braying upper class chinless wonders.

I completely agree, it might even bring the Lib Dem’s back into the fray since the only thing that unites the Conservatives right now is their hatred of Corbyn.

 

[KarneeKarnay]

I voted the way I did because I felt problems, serious problems weren't getting listened to. Not only they weren't getting listened to they were being ridiculed by people who couldn't possibly understand said problems.

What is clear is that there is an attempt to bully this country into political submission of the masses which is just serving to increase my resolve. I'd rather be a poor free man than a slightly less poor servant, sorry.

How are we servants to Europe?

 

[Chinner]

How are we servants to Europe?

What he means is that he is too proud to admit that there are problems in British society and its easier to blame the EU.

 

[CyclopsRock]

You don't negotiate with terrorists. And Brexiteers who are happy to see terrorism return to the British Isles are as good as, in my opinion – that's not hyperbole. These are people saying that thousands being killed or injured is a fine price to pay for their ideological goals. If they were Muslim, it would be called terrorism.

Ummmm isn't that exactly how we arrived at the Good Friday Agreement though? I mean McGuinness was literally the leader of the IRA and was a key figure in the GFA.

 

[PJV3]

What he means is that he is too proud to admit that there are problems in British society and its easier to blame the EU.

Or it was the British who helped create some of the problems in the EU.

 

[kmag]

I voted the way I did because I felt problems, serious problems weren't getting listened to. Not only they weren't getting listened to they were being ridiculed by people who couldn't possibly understand said problems.

What is clear is that there is an attempt to bully this country into political submission of the masses which is just serving to increase my resolve. I'd rather be a poor free man than a slightly less poor servant, sorry.

Get over yourself.

Firstly, there is no brexit mass. The margin of victory was 2%. The masses are pretty much split.

Secondly, not really sure what EU membership had to do with the failure of domestic government. If you think domestic policy was being ignored before, what on earth do you think is happening now? You've given government carte blanche to ignore domestic concerns and blame it all on brexit. Notwithstanding, the most logical result of exiting the EU is a massive step back in workers/consumers rights and protection. The brexiteers often bring up NZ. NZ essentially didn't have any real health and safety legislation until the Pike River mine disaster in 2010 (and still has basically the worst health and safety in the developed world)

Ultimately, the they're not listening to us, so lets throw a tantrum is basically toddler level logic. Failure to think through your actions because you were angry isn't an excuse for stupidity.

 

[Corleth the Fey]

I voted the way I did because I felt problems, serious problems weren't getting listened to. Not only they weren't getting listened to they were being ridiculed by people who couldn't possibly understand said problems. We've had decades of this narrow minded fingers in the ear approach to our EU membership by our politicians. Ultimately I blame the Blair regime, by the time the country saw through his spin and saw the huge social damage he was doing it was too late to recover.

What is clear is that there is an attempt to bully this country into political submission of the masses which is just serving to increase my resolve. I'd rather be a poor free man than a slightly less poor servant, sorry.

Hahaha. As a citizen of UK the protection of your freedoms will go down outside of EU - not up. Hahaha.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I voted the way I did because I felt problems, serious problems weren't getting listened to. Not only they weren't getting listened to they were being ridiculed by people who couldn't possibly understand said problems. We've had decades of this narrow minded fingers in the ear approach to our EU membership by our politicians. Ultimately I blame the Blair regime, by the time the country saw through his spin and saw the huge social damage he was doing it was too late to recover.

What is clear is that there is an attempt to bully this country into political submission of the masses which is just serving to increase my resolve. I'd rather be a poor free man than a slightly less poor servant, sorry.

Hey, so did you know it was conservative lead Britain that fought and campaigned for eastern european nations to join the EU because of cheap labour?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/21/tories-conservatives-eu-enlargement-bulgaria

And now it doesn't want it anymore, but the rest of the EU is mature enough to deal with the mess.

 

[Spookie]

Or it was the British who helped create some of the problems in the EU.

We did after all elect a number of UKIP MEPs who don't even turn up to votes.

 

[slider]

On to the story of her not needing a "yes" man, this is her trying to cover up the fact that Boris is doing whatever he wants and she is too spineless to do anything about it. After all, would you put anything past the woman who wouldn't do anything to Trump after he insulted Sadiq Khan.

My understanding is that when she was Home Secretary, she was an absolute authoritarian. I haven't seen the story you mention but it's shit.

Also, she's not human.

 

[Uzzy]

Looks like the European Parliament, following testimony from Juncker and Barnier, are going to recommend today that sufficient process hasn't been made in the negotiations to move onto the next phase. That'll go down well at the conference I'm sure.

Tim Shipman, a journalist with some pretty great sources amongst the Conservative Party, is reporting that there will be 'big news' in May's speech tomorrow. Could just be domestic stuff, or it could be a reaction to that.

 

[TimmmV]

I voted the way I did because I felt problems, serious problems weren't getting listened to. Not only they weren't getting listened to they were being ridiculed by people who couldn't possibly understand said problems. We've had decades of this narrow minded fingers in the ear approach to our EU membership by our politicians. Ultimately I blame the Blair regime, by the time the country saw through his spin and saw the huge social damage he was doing it was too late to recover.

What is clear is that there is an attempt to bully this country into political submission of the masses which is just serving to increase my resolve. I'd rather be a poor free man than a slightly less poor servant, sorry.

FYI: Leaving the EU wont make you any more "free". You will just be poorer.

It really is amazing how Leave voters keep giving these defences like they have some nuance to their opinions that was just smugly dismissed by Remainers. I guarantee that this poster will either leave the thread (because they probably will just get hounded now), or they'll respond to replies and it will boil down to too much immigrants coming in

Ummmm isn't that exactly how we arrived at the Good Friday Agreement though? I mean McGuinness was literally the leader of the IRA and was a key figure in the GFA.

Yep that logic has always been dogmatic, although I guess there is a point when a "terrorist" gets strong enough to become a legitimate point of view and then becomes acceptable to negotiate with

 

[Ghost]

Rees Mogg taking on a protester...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-pol...akes-on-protesters-you-re-a-despicable-person

haha, obviously expected the guy to just keep yelling at him so he could take the high ground then got hit with the laundry list of his personal and party political failings.

 

[JonnyDBrit]

My understanding is that when she was Home Secretary, she was an absolute authoritarian. I haven't seen the story you mention but it's shit.

Also, she's not human.

It's suspected this may be part of why she ultimately is still willing to chase Brexit, even while probably knowing what a disaster it will be in almost every other regard. A continual thorn in her side as Home Secretary was the European Court of Justice, because you know, it asserted people had rights and shit, even criminals.

Though, I remember it also factoring into why she was seen as the least terrible option during the Tory leadership challenge. Ie, she'd butted heads with and challenged the police, including systemic biases, which had been taken to mean she had some moral fibre. That's been lost in the subsequent debate of whether or not the cuts she oversaw has made us more vulnerable to terrorism.

 

[jelly]

Looks like the European Parliament, following testimony from Juncker and Barnier, are going to recommend today that sufficient process hasn't been made in the negotiations to move onto the next phase. That'll go down well at the conference I'm sure.

Tim Shipman, a journalist with some pretty great sources amongst the Conservative Party, is reporting that there will be 'big news' in May's speech tomorrow. Could just be domestic stuff, or it could be a reaction to that.

The EU doesn't tell us what to do. Taking back control. We be jamming. UK will lead in urinal cakes.

 

[CyclopsRock]

Yep that logic has always been dogmatic, although I guess there is a point when a "terrorist" gets strong enough to become a legitimate point of view and then becomes acceptable to negotiate with

I guess it's about weighing up the desired goals of the group at hand. The problem with "negotiating with terrorists" is that it legitimises terror as a means of achieving your goals. But if the terrorism is continuing unabated with no end in sight, and the group committing the terror have a fairly codified, achievable aim (ie a power sharing agreement in Northern Ireland, as opposed to the creation of a European Islamic Caliphate, for example) then I guess you have to weigh up the likelihood of that solution being "enough" and ending the violence. In this case, clearly it was.