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Brexit | OT3 | A Feast for Crows

F

Fledz

Member
Psychotext said:
Fucking hell... and if they go, I wouldn't be surprised to see GSK start thinking about doing the same.
Click to expand...

Where does the EMA go as well? Also what happens with medicines regulation in the UK if it no longer falls within the EMA? Or does it and in that case, how can the UK make use of a European agency without any issues?

I'm in Pharma and it's pretty fucked. I wouldn't be surprised if it all resulted in massive layoffs in a couple of years if not sooner.
 
M

mehrmantrout

Member
Interesting read/discovery by Sky News on how the gold trade massively distorts our trade figures

The scale of the distortions caused by the flow of gold are such that they also have an impact on the national accounts.

In the fourth quarter of last year, a sharp outflow of gold showed up as a sudden spike in exports, causing some economists to conclude that Britain's manufacturers were starting to benefit from a post-Brexit jump in confidence.

In fact, the spike was primarily a sign of investors pulling gold out of vaults in London.

In July alone, the latest month for which trade figures exist, gold accounted for more than a tenth of the value of everything exported by the UK overseas - making it Britain's top export above cars, engines and pharmaceuticals.

http://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how-gold-takes-the-shine-off-britains-trade-figures-11057545

I'm sure Cornish pasties and the like will make up for it
 
A

Acorn

Member
We better not end up with America strong arming the nhs for pharmaceutical prices. But probably will since we don't realise we're fucking tiny and hold no cards against the US, China or EU.

Maybe we can strong arm Bolivia!
 
S

SporeCrawler

Member
mehrmantrout said:
Interesting read/discovery by Sky News on how the gold trade massively distorts our trade figures

The scale of the distortions caused by the flow of gold are such that they also have an impact on the national accounts.

In the fourth quarter of last year, a sharp outflow of gold showed up as a sudden spike in exports, causing some economists to conclude that Britain's manufacturers were starting to benefit from a post-Brexit jump in confidence.

In fact, the spike was primarily a sign of investors pulling gold out of vaults in London.

In July alone, the latest month for which trade figures exist, gold accounted for more than a tenth of the value of everything exported by the UK overseas - making it Britain's top export above cars, engines and pharmaceuticals.

http://news.sky.com/story/revealed-how-gold-takes-the-shine-off-britains-trade-figures-11057545

I'm sure Cornish pasties and the like will make up for it
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i sure want to try them stargazing pies
 
M

mehrmantrout

Member
Winning

EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says it will take "a miracle" for there to be sufficient progress on the EU divorce negotiations
 
T

theaface

Member
mehrmantrout said:
Winning

EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker says it will take "a miracle" for there to be sufficient progress on the EU divorce negotiations
Click to expand...

Stop remoaning! At least balance the negative Brexit news with the positive...

UK economic growth for second quarter revised down

The UK economy grew by a weaker rate than earlier reported in the second quarter of the year, according to official figures.

The Office for National Statistics (ONS) said while it continued to measure quarter-on-quarter growth of 0.3% between April and June, the annual growth rate for gross domestic product (GDP) was 1.5%. It had given an earlier estimate of 1.7% and said it represented the weakest annual growth performance since 2013.

Perhaps of greatest concern will be a decline in output in the country's powerhouse service sector - responsible for the vast majority of UK growth since the financial crisis.
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Oh.
 
J

jelly

Member
He isn't wrong, I mean can anybody see the UK getting a deal they want and the EU caving on anything because they don't have to. Even if the UK pays up, the EU still won't give them a good trade deal because the UK wants what it has now without being in the EU. Madness.

Meanwhile, Boris...

Boris Johnson has been accused of breaching the ministerial code in an “astonishing lack of judgment” by allowing the launch of a right-leaning thinktank on Foreign Office premises. The Institute for Free Trade (IFT), set up and headed by the arch-Brexiter Daniel Hannan, held its first public meeting on Wednesday in the grand surroundings of the FCO’s Map Room, with guests including Johnson, Michael Gove and Liam Fox.
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Critics accused the foreign secretary of allowing public resources to be misused as Hannan called for the government to move towards a Singapore-style economy after Britain leaves the EU. Theresa May reassured EU leaders this week that Britain was not seeking to become an offshore tax haven like Singapore.

Lord Falconer claimed the event was in breach of the ministerial code because the aims of the institute are not supported by the government. The former Labour lord chancellor wrote on Twitter: “Foreign Sec in breach of min code (7.12) in allowing FCO to be venue for launch of Institute of Free Trade which conflicts with govt policy.”

The code says: “Ministers should take care to ensure that they do not become associated with non-public organisations whose objectives may in any degree conflict with government policy and thus give rise to a conflict of interest.”
Click to expand...

The IFT “sees Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union as a unique opportunity to revitalise the world trading system”, according to its website. It is based near parliament at 57 Tufton Street, where it shares an office with the rightwing thinktank the Centre for Policy Studies.

At the event, Johnson again called for a swift end to any transition phase of the UK’s exit from the European Union, in another move that could be provocative towards May. He told guests: “You can imagine what our brilliant companies are able to do … Let’s hope the date is soon upon us, without too long a transition period.”
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Hannan said: “I’m looking at [the] high commissioner of Singapore [in the front row]. They have gone from being half as rich as us to twice as rich as us. What was the magic formula? Just do it. They dropped their barriers.”
Click to expand...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/28/boris-johnson-charged-with-breaching-ministerial-code-over-thinktank-launch
 
C

cabot

Member
Hannan is a dolt.

I remember him specifically talking about the Norway option being favourable the morning after Leave won the vote.

The fact he measures success by being rich instead of all the other actually important things for a country says it all.
 
S

Starwolf_UK

Member
Chinner said:
theres a program on now called brexit reality on c4. not watching because it'll make me rage, but its set in wakefield so i assume its pretty full of old men telling us brexit will make us great again.
Click to expand...
A friend of mine watched it and that sums things up. He did get a laugh out of the absurdity of Brexiteers including some thinking we're Britain we can do whatever we like because we're British and control half of the world (they think this despite being born after the empire died) and apparently there was someone hyping up the idea of curry exports.

We need a chalkboard meme of "will save the UK". Cornish pasties, curry exports, French wine and German cars etc...
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Yeah, you really don't want to chase that Singaporean model.

But it sounds like a wet dream for wealthy conservatives, so there's a chance it may become an actual conversation topic if things go tits up.
 
C

cabot

Member
Starwolf_UK said:
A friend of mine watched it and that sums things up. He did get a laugh out of the absurdity of Brexiteers including some thinking we're Britain we can do whatever we like because we're British and control half of the world (they think this despite being born after the empire died) and apparently there was someone hyping up the idea of curry exports.

We need a chalkboard meme of "will save the UK". Cornish pasties, curry exports, French wine and German cars etc...
Click to expand...

scottish whisky
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
cabot said:
scottish whisky
Click to expand...

... is going to take a serious bath due to taxes. Irish producers are probably happier.

There's a lot of talk about what Brexit means for Scottish whisky. Some people think it'll reinforce its high end aura in order to justify its pricing, while others fear that it may go the American way so it can remain competitive.
 
C

cabot

Member
Funky Papa said:
... is going to take a serious bath due to taxes. Irish producers are probably happier.

There's a lot of talk about what Brexit means for Scottish whisky. Some people think it'll reinforce its high end aura in order to justify its pricing, while others fear that it may go the American way so it can remain competitive.
Click to expand...

Hey I was just adding things to the chalkboard.

It's something brexiteers will use.
 
T

theaface

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
How bad are these numbers really?
Click to expand...

Well that depends on what lens you're applying.

On one hand, it's growth, so there's that.

On the other hand, it shows the rate of growth continues to decline, it does so faster than previously expected and shows us as the worst performing economy of the G7. Plotted on a graph, things continue to be on a downward trend for the UK.

Unsurprisingly I, and many other observers, see this as another drip drip drip through the cracks of the Brexit dam which will eventually break if we stay the current course of the Government's hard exit position.
 
J

jimbobsmells

Member
A Singapore model? Ok where’s my subsidised housing for one. Or mandatory military service. Or huge cost of living expenses. Or limited freedom of speech & democracy.
That nation is built on foreign investment and a massive ex pat base. The Brexit homelands would absolutely hate it.
and I say that as someone who actually really enjoyed my time in Singapore.
 
M

Maledict

Member
Tacitus_ said:
Just what is Boris up to?
Click to expand...

He continues to run a low level campaign to be leader.

Boris is one of the most despicable people I’ve ever seen in british politics. I’d take Thatcher over him. Everything he does is about accumulating more personal power - he has not a single scruple or moral, and will say or do anything to get the top job.

He’s a shit stain on british politics and a waste of human skin. Unfortunately I suspect the party will choose him in the next leadership battle, with the way he’s now positioned himself as the ‘happy warrior’ of Brexit. He doesn’t care that it’s a load of bollocks, as long as it gets him votes.
 
O

oilvomer

Member
I do understand the overwhelming pro EU feeling here and apologize in advance, if some of you find my comments offensive...

I just cant not see any progress here, it is blatantly obvious the EU are not for moving, and why should they! but I actually find myself agreeing with May on the EU courts after Brexit, I feel the EU are trying to have their cake and eat it here, it is highly unfair to expect to say to the UK, that our citizens get access to the EU court once you are a 3rd country.

You want to live in UK, great, but you have to abide by UK courts like the rest of us once we become a 3rd country...and accept the final decision of the UK court

However moving on swiftly, getting all 27 countries to agree to anything, is going to be quite impossible I reckon, especially as you have a 'make Britain pay' element which still comes out, but the cold reality is May's speech was clearly a recognition we are not getting any sort of deal we hoped for, so she needs to either say fuck it and we will push for a Norway type model, or walk away and deal with the fall out, and we will either sink or swim, depending on your view point, but other countries are not stupid if we go cap in hand desperate for free trade deals, they are going to milk it. so caution needed..

I personally think May has no intention of leaving, and this 2 year deal is for her to kick the can to the next leader or Goverment, not that I am any clearer on Labours position
 
F

Funky Papa

FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Tacitus_ said:
Just what is Boris up to?
Click to expand...

This is who Boris thinks he is:

ZeElpFm.jpg


This is who he pretends to be:

f7PuCRA.jpg


This is who he probably is/going to become:

KSs5Iye.jpg
 
M

Monty Mole

Member
jelly said:
He isn't wrong, I mean can anybody see the UK getting a deal they want and the EU caving on anything because they don't have to. Even if the UK pays up, the EU still won't give them a good trade deal because the UK wants what it has now without being in the EU. Madness.

Meanwhile, Boris...









https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/28/boris-johnson-charged-with-breaching-ministerial-code-over-thinktank-launch
Click to expand...

There's a reason the EU wants the divorce settlement, Ireland and citizens rights agreeing before any trade deal begins discussion: because they know they are the UK's only real bargaining chips and none will therefore be relevant by forcing these through beforehand.
 
B

Bleepey

Member
cabot said:
Hannan is a dolt.

I remember him specifically talking about the Norway option being favourable the morning after Leave won the vote.

The fact he measures success by being rich instead of all the other actually important things for a country says it all.
Click to expand...

He and his other brexit cronies campaigned for Brexit to give the NHS more money, this is despite them shitting on the NHS and advocating for the private sector. Wonders will never cease to amaze me how people are stupid enough to buy the bullshit from Johnson and Hannan, especially Johnson who voted against the £350 million pound amendment
 
T

TimmmV

Member
oilvomer said:
I do understand the overwhelming pro EU feeling here and apologize in advance, if some of you find my comments offensive...

I just cant not see any progress here, it is blatantly obvious the EU are not for moving, and why should they! but I actually find myself agreeing with May on the EU courts after Brexit, I feel the EU are trying to have their cake and eat it here, it is highly unfair to expect to say to the UK, that our citizens get access to the EU court once you are a 3rd country.

You want to live in UK, great, but you have to abide by UK courts like the rest of us once we become a 3rd country...and accept the final decision of the UK court

However moving on swiftly, getting all 27 countries to agree to anything, is going to be quite impossible I reckon, especially as you have a 'make Britain pay' element which still comes out, but the cold reality is May's speech was clearly a recognition we are not getting any sort of deal we hoped for, so she needs to either say fuck it and we will push for a Norway type model, or walk away and deal with the fall out, and we will either sink or swim, depending on your view point, but other countries are not stupid if we go cap in hand desperate for free trade deals, they are going to milk it. so caution needed..

I personally think May has no intention of leaving, and this 2 year deal is for her to kick the can to the next leader or Goverment, not that I am any clearer on Labours position
Click to expand...

This would be a much easier position to take if EU residents had been given the right to vote in the referendum

As it is, EU residents stand to lose a load of rights they had before - without having been given the right to vote on it by they country they live in. So looking at it from that side, its only fair that the EU would demand the rights of EU residents continue to be respected, as they have had no say in them being stripped in the first place - its something that has been entirely imposed on them by the 52% of leave voters.

I get the argument that it makes no sense for the EU to have a say in UK law after they leave the EU, but this wouldnt be fair on the 3m EU residents in the UK.

Frankly, its just another example of how terribly implemented the referendum was in the first place, Cameron really fucked it up
 
C

Camp Freddie

Member
On the one hand, it's unreasonable for the EU to expect to have a say over the rights of people in Britain after we've left.

On the other hand you can't expect the EU to give up their citizens' rights when they have the power to stop it. It's an international negotiation, so "fairness" is rather subjective and not entirely relevant.
And there are 3 million British citizens in the EU.

The Brexiteers need to learn the lessons of pre-communist China. You can insist on all the sovereignty you want, but it won't help when you need trade to survive and have no power to prevent 'unequal treaties' being imposed upon you.
 
F

Frankfurter

Member
-Plasma Reus- said:
How bad are these numbers really?
Click to expand...

It's two weak (not terrible, but weak) quarters in a row. Both Euro area and EU-28 quarterly growth has been pretty constant for the past four quarters (0.6/0.5/0.6/0.5 and 0.7/0.5/0.7/0.5 respectively), while the UK very much on the level of the Euro area and the EU-28 for the first two of those quarters (0.7 and 0.5), but has now fallen back quite significantly. I'm still a little skeptical to call this a trend, though. After all it's just two quarters. If this current quarters also performs meh-ish, it's time for a quite a bit of pessimism about the UKs economic performance, though. And keep in mind, the UK still is a member of the EU, enjoys all the benefits etc.
 
O

oilvomer

Member
FliXFantatier said:
This is perfectly reasonable for any EU citizen who moves to the UK after Brexit, but everyone already there moved there and made their life there in good faith that they can continue to enjoy the rights as EU citizens.
It is only natural and commendable that the EU would put the citizen rights above all else. That is what the EU is best at, protecting its own. That many in the UK don't see that is regrettable.
Click to expand...

I agree in sentiment, but it will not take long for a case to be bought to court, for example a benefit cut where the UK court could side with the Government, and the EU overrules it for their citizens, that would be a complete mess. And there is enough ill feeling as it is, I don't know the solution, and maybe they need to come up with a situation where you can only use the EU courts is specific criteria is met, but then again that is losing rights
 
O

oilvomer

Member
FliXFantatier said:
No one is questioning the fact that this is a bigly mess.
Click to expand...


I sometimes sit here and try to come up with a solution to please all, and I simply can not, every turn I play is met with a no from either the EU or the UK....

As much as this pains me to say, I believe we are nearing the point where we either need to say we accept we got it wrong, and ask to cancel Article 50 and call a general election. Or go for it and walk away and put business and the public on notice that in 2019 we will be leaving the EU fully
 
T

Tacitus_

Member
Maledict said:
He continues to run a low level campaign to be leader.

Boris is one of the most despicable people I’ve ever seen in british politics. I’d take Thatcher over him. Everything he does is about accumulating more personal power - he has not a single scruple or moral, and will say or do anything to get the top job.

He’s a shit stain on british politics and a waste of human skin. Unfortunately I suspect the party will choose him in the next leadership battle, with the way he’s now positioned himself as the ‘happy warrior’ of Brexit. He doesn’t care that it’s a load of bollocks, as long as it gets him votes.
Click to expand...

I had a hunch it might be that, but I'm just absolutely baffled how his behaviour is going to help him in that.
 
-Plasma Reus-

-Plasma Reus-

Service guarantees member status
oilvomer said:
I sometimes sit here and try to come up with a solution to please all, and I simply can not, every turn I play is met with a no from either the EU or the UK....

As much as this pains me to say, I believe we are nearing the point where we either need to say we accept we got it wrong, and ask to cancel Article 50 and call a general election. Or go for it and walk away and put business and the public on notice that in 2019 we will be leaving the EU fully
Click to expand...
Makes sense.
 
U

Uzzy

Member
In more Boris news, here he is laying out red lines for Brexit.

Boris Johnson issued a direct challenge to Theresa May over her Brexit strategy last night, undermining the prime minister as she tries to reassert her authority at the Conservative conference that starts on Sunday.

The foreign secretary used an interview to stake out his four “red lines” for Brexit, which go beyond the carefully agreed cabinet position set out by Mrs May in her speech in Florence last week.

The foreign secretary told The Sun that a Brexit transition period should last “not a second more” than two years, while Mrs May carefully used the phrase “around two years”. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, is among those who think it should last up to three years.

Mr Johnson said Britain should not accept new European Court rulings during the transition. Mrs May’s team privately concede that adopting the rulings may be inevitable because the EU is unlikely to yield on the point.

He also said Britain should not pay for access to the single market after the transition period ends and that the UK should not shadow European rules to maintain access to the single market.
Click to expand...
 
J

jelly

Member
Does Boris want to be fired. Tories are a mess. Is May really being squeezed or she just wants to tie Brexit round his neck like the rest of them?

In other Boris news.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple

The foreign secretary has been accused of “incredible insensitivity” after it emerged he recited part of a colonial-era Rudyard Kipling poem in front of local dignitaries while on an official visit to Myanmar in January.
Boris Johnson was inside the Shwedagon Pagoda, the most sacred Buddhist site in the capital Yangon, when he started uttering the opening verse to The Road to Mandalay, including the line: “The temple bells they say/ Come you back you English soldier.”
Kipling’s poem captures the nostalgia of a retired serviceman looking back on his colonial service and a Burmese girl he kissed. Britain colonised Myanmar from 1824 to 1948 and fought three wars in the 19th century, suppressing widespread resistance.
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Johnson’s impromptu recital was so embarrassing that the UK ambassador to Myanmar, Andrew Patrick, was forced to stop him. The incident was captured by a film crew for Channel 4 and will form part of a documentary to be broadcast on Sunday about the fitness of the MP for Uxbridge and South Ruislip to become prime minister.
The previously unbroadcast footage shows the diplomat managing to halt Johnson before he could get to the line about a “Bloomin’ idol made o’ mud/ Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd” – a reference to the Buddha.
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A visibly tense ambassador stood by as Johnson continued: “The wind is in the palm trees and the temple bells they say ...” Then Patrick reminded him: “You’re on mic,” adding: “Probably not a good idea...”
“What?” Johnson replied. “The Road to Mandalay?”
“No,” said the ambassador sternly. “Not appropriate.”
“No?” replied Johnson looking down at his mobile phone. “Good stuff.”
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Is the Great British Empire nostalgia the real Brexit plan.
 
F

ferrasvansen

Member
Boris is an utter joke, embarrassing Foreign Secretary for the UK. Then again his brexit nonsense he keeps spouting about how great it will be, when Trump and co will utterly shaft the UK. I remember saying tongue and cheek a few years ago that the UK would be a third world country when I was in the ground, does not seem as funny now especially if we end up destroying our economy in the search of old British Empire memories.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
jelly said:
Does Boris want to be fired. Tories are a mess. Is May really being squeezed or she just wants to tie Brexit round his neck like the rest of them?

In other Boris news.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple







Is the Great British Empire nostalgia the real Brexit plan.
Click to expand...


I still can't believe the people are following this clown over the cliff, he belongs in an episode of Blackadder goes forth or something.
 
J

JonnyDBrit

Member
You know, when he was appointed a fair few of us figured May was giving him just enough rope to hang himself. Yet the bastard just does not choke despite repeated efforts.
 
PJV3

PJV3

Member
JonnyDBrit said:
You know, when he was appointed a fair few of us figured May was giving him just enough rope to hang himself. Yet the bastard just does not choke despite repeated efforts.
Click to expand...

Same, in the end she turned out to be as out of it as the rumours claimed, I don't think she really knows much about the rest of the Tory party, or people in general.

He has pointlessly annoyed people since he got the job, a terrible waste of energy.
 
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